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The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up

Investigate the Sea?

  • Yes

    Votes: 593 80.4%

  • No

    Votes: 145 19.6%
  • Total voters
    738
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On deploying ground forces
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If these planets weren't tough on the ground they would have been lost long ago. Let them defend their own land, our concern is the void.
Send the absolute minimum and hope we get a Lessons Learned out of it.

Autarch Amnedor Landeer
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Much of our navy is strongly anti-Eldar. Choosing him would cause undue friction.

Chapter Master Julius
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Experience is as likely to mislead given the changes.

you, Governor of Avernus
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Time to upgrade that Paragon trait.

[X] Deploy thirteen PDF Army Groups, twelve Guard Armour Groups and one Elite Army Group- These forces should provide a boost to the ground defences, while being replaceable even if massive losses are sustained (2% of all PDF, 25% of all Guard, 10% of all elites) -21% base chance
[X] Attempt to claim the position yourself (66% chance, diplomacy check (DC 75) increase chanced )- You believe that you would be the best choice as High Commander, and are willing to devote the time that will be needed to fill this position.
 
I'm thinking julius, and the first option. We'll either take the orbitals, or it won't matter what forces we have on the ground.

aside from our paragon, julius is almost as good a commander as we are, since grandmaster of war gives him +40. also, a second uper general would be a massive boon to the trust, so comand exp for him is useful.
 
Unsure, Rotbart is good at preventing breakthroughs, And if his paragon trait upgrades to naval it would help improve our escort screen to the point where the Tyranids cannot easily beat it.
Julius is on the border of gaining a paragon trait, and is good at organizing orderly retreats.
The Autharch is unknown, but better at large scale conflict, yet may have the early Fredrick problem in that he isn't used to commanding average humans soldiers competently and will cause a lot of casualties in winning.

I support sending more elites though. Unless Ridcully notes planet killing psykic powers from the Tyranid ships.
 
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Angelform said:
Much of our navy is strongly anti-Eldar. Choosing him would cause undue friction.
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I think if that were a serious concern it would be been brought up, or he wouldn't even be an option at all.

random_npc said:
I'm thinking julius, and the first option. We'll either take the orbitals, or it won't matter what forces we have on the ground.

aside from our paragon, julius is almost as good a commander as we are, since grandmaster of war gives him +40. also, a second uper general would be a massive boon to the trust, so comand exp for him is useful.
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He doesn't stop commanding by not being in over all command and I doubt any bonuses he has like grandmaster of war apply across hundreds of light years.

We're fighting a massive scale of war that nobody in the trust has done, we need the guy who both has experience fighting the foe we're about to fight and can manage that scale easily and as confirmed in discord his traits are set up for that and he's just as good as Julius in martial.
 
thatguy said:
The Autharch is unknown, but better at large scale conflict, yet may have the early Fredrick problem in that he isn't used to commanding average humans soldiers competently and will cause a lot of casualties in winning.
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He's as good a commander as Julius with his traits set up for large scale command, he's not got problems on the other front as he's been in command of Trust assets before and knows what we can do apparently.
 
thatguy said:
Unsure, Rotbart is good at preventing breakthroughs, And if his paragon trait upgrades to naval it would help improve our escort screen to the point where the Tyranids cannot easily beat it.
Julius is on the border of gaining a paragon trait, and is good at organizing orderly retreats.
The Autharch is unknown, but better at large scale conflict, yet may have the early Fredrick problem in that he isn't used to commanding average humans soldiers competently and will cause a lot of casualties in winning.
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No, I'm saying Rotbart's trait literally doesn't work on the scale of a High Commander, N Steps Ahead only functions in the scale of a single planet, not a sector!
 
Rotbart is still going to be fighting even if he is not given overall command. And since he is the best admiral in the Trust now he will be fighting in the void in the toughest fights. Julius on the hand is at 49 this stage of the war is a paragon level achievement if he can accomplish our goal of blunting the Nid forces.
 
Execute/Dumbo said:
No, I'm saying Rotbart's trait literally doesn't work on the scale of a High Commander, N Steps Ahead only functions in the scale of a single planet, not a sector!
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Not amazingly relevant, it just means that we'd be making decisions with Rotbart's martial score bonus instead of somone else doing so with their bonus.

The trait gets exactly the same amount of use either way. So I suppose it would have some merit to put somone else in charge, but whoever is in charge would probably have the best chance to improve, and getting n steps naval earlier could effect the outcome of the war.
Which brings up a whole other kettle of fish, do we really want to seek command so Rotbart can test himself? It'd be a mess of a narrative. Can we even predict how anyone else might gain from command?

@Durin
What do the other councilors argue? For why specific options should be given command and what we're looking for.
 
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I really don't think we should deploy our best forces. That will just leave us a target if we send our best. I am leaning to the first option. But we will most likely Settle on the second.
Also IF Rotbart becomes the overall commander there goes a lot of the time necessary to get the rest of the tech upgraded. Rotbart would have no spare time if he becomes the overall commander.
 
@Durin 1 I assume if Rotbart becomes the Overall commander he will have to use all his personal option, is that right?
2 How much of Rotbart actions will this take if he is not overall commander?
 
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I'm thinking the first for the possablity that the nid's have some kind of ace up their sleves (which we can later counter hopefully once we have info on it) or the second in the hopes of guranteeing that the worlds don't fall...the third seems like overkill considering that we are not fighting the main-chunks of the nids (and the description of how much it would improve the defenses).....the third seems like we would risk too much on the nid's hard countering us somehow.

in terms of who should command? hm....I'm very split to be honest, so imma list some of the things Ihave in my mind.

(1): if we pick the eldar, thats experience that won't be coming back to benifit the trust and I don't think durin will even keep track of it so its not like this *other* battle somewhere else might do better because this guy lead *now.
(2): Julis's experience probably does not apply very much, the nids seem like they have changed too much for it to benefit much. Not saying that it won't help, but that its probably small enough that just a support roll will be good enough use of his knowledge of the nids.
(3): both Rotbart and Julis are at near-paragon (or extension of it), so the experience could be helpful even if it doesnt actually roll them over to 50+.
(4): If the eldar guy gets picked, the other two can go back to commanding their planet in the meanwhile....IE, we probably won't lose as many personal actions to this.
(5): the eldar guy might have experience leading trust forces....but probably not as much as rotbart or julius.

I'm leaning towards either the eldar or rotbart.
 
I'm unconvinced by the spare time arguement. Unless rotbart's being kept out of the fighting, then he's still spending long periods of time out of easy contact; whether he's in charge or not. If that's the case, then I'd definitely vote for him to be in charge just because we can't afford to keep him home with an existential threat on the way.

The eldar seems like a better choice than julius. Unfortunately, the eldar is only with us for the duration of the campaign, so any trait bonuses gained travel with him and his priorities are going to firmly stopping the tyranids, and minimizing eldar casualties, with trust casualties and position after the war being a secondary concern at best.


between julius and rotbart, rotbart is the clear best choice. mechanically, he gives the best bonuses. His paragon trait doesn't function in space, but rather than being a liability, that only puts him in the same league as the other commanders, but with bigger numbers. He has a good chance of upgrading his naval score, and if he does, then the trust retains the benefits of this even when the campaign ends. Julius is on the verge of paragon, but the difference between 49 and 50 is smaller than the difference between 54 and 55. If rotbart upgrades his naval trait, then he effectively gains 4 martial to julius 1, making it even more lopsided.

This may prevent the use of personal actions to integrate tecnology, but since most of the remaining technology is am, and em production requiring admech actions, there isn't much he can do for that anyways.
 
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dragon said:
I'm unconvinced by the spare time arguement. Unless rotbart's being kept out of the fighting, then he's still spending long periods of time out of easy contact; whether he's in charge or not. If that's the case, then I'd definitely vote for him to be in charge just because we can't afford to keep him home with an existential threat on the way.

The eldar seems like a better choice than julius. Unfortunately, the eldar is only with us for the duration of the campaign, so any trait bonuses gained travel with him and his priorities are going to firmly stopping the tyranids, and minimizing eldar casualties, with trust casualties and position after the war being a secondary concern at best.


between julius and rotbart, rotbart is the clear best choice. mechanically, he gives the best bonuses. His paragon trait doesn't function in space, but rather than being a liability, that only puts him in the same league as the other commanders, but with bigger numbers. He has a good chance of upgrading his naval score, and if he does, then the trust retains the benefits of this even when the campaign ends. This may prevent the use of personal actions to integrate tecnology, but since most of the remaining technology is am, and em production requiring admech actions, there isn't much he can do for that anyways.
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good point about the admech-actions not being doable by rotbart.

imma vote for rotbart ....later....and im holding out on the first/second option till later.
 
Tom Smith said:
(3): both Rotbart and Julis are at near-paragon (or extension of it), so the experience could be helpful even if it doesnt actually roll them over to 50+.
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Dude's also near paragon and if being overall commander actually increases trait chance (doubts strongly) then the Eldar having another paragon of martial operating on a galatic scale isn't a bad thing.
 
Doomed Wombat said:
Dude's also near paragon and if being overall commander actually increases trait chance (doubts strongly) then the Eldar having another paragon of martial operating on a galatic scale isn't a bad thing.
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I disagree because durin is very unlikely to actually keep track of that kind of thing...if he did he would have to simulate (albiet probably soft-simulated) random battles for the rest of the quest just so that this bonus was somehow "saved"...and would need to do that for every character from another part of the galaxy that he introduces to us as well.

I also spotted something about the qeustion about rotbarts time being used.....the action for picking us suggests that it DOES.
"
[] Attempt to claim the position yourself (66% chance, diplomacy check (DC 75) increase chanced )- You believe that you would be the best choice as High Commander, and are willing to devote the time that will be needed to fill this position.
"
note the "and are willing to devote the time that will be needed to fill this position".
we need info from durin about how much time....


-edit, I might have accidnetlaly voted by quoteing that ...o well.
 
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Doomed Wombat said:
Dude's also near paragon and if being overall commander actually increases trait chance (doubts strongly) then the Eldar having another paragon of martial operating on a galatic scale isn't a bad thing.
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unless durin stats out eldar commanders martial instead of just rolling a dice to randomly determine how different factions are doing, than any exp the eldar gain effectively disapears.

also, if rotbart upgrades his naval trait then he effectively gets 4 martial in space, in addition to a space paragon trait. more, if his total martial actually increases. Since we know rotbarts stats are actually tracked, we get to keep the benefit of that.
 
Tom Smith said:
I disagree because durin is very unlikely to actually keep track of that kind of thing...if he did he would have to simulate (albiet probably soft-simulated) random battles for the rest of the quest just so that this bonus was somehow "saved"...

I also spotted something about the qeustion about rotbarts time being used.....the action for picking us suggests that it DOES.
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dragon said:
unless durin stats out eldar commanders martial instead of just rolling a dice to randomly determine how different factions are doing, than any exp the eldar gain effectively disapears.

also, if rotbart upgrades his naval trait then he effectively gets 4 martial in space, in addition to a space paragon trait. more, if his total martial actually increases. Since we know rotbarts stats are actually tracked, we get to keep the benefit of that.
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For one have a bit more faith in Durin, while I doubt he rolls for everything I very much doubt that "experience" is forgotten by him when we go do something else.

For another Durin seemingly has stated him out to boot especially since he seems likely to be the Eldar commander we'll be interacting with most.

If there's one thing Durin has its a memory to not forget anything in the quest so far so even if the Eldar having an additional martial paragon just adds +10 vs the Destroyer rolls or whatever then that's a massive bonus considering the galactic importance of that battle.

Great for Rotbart, but he's already plenty good, spread things out a bit, unlike Julius and Amendor he isn't immortal.
 
[X] Deploy thirteen PDF Army Groups, twelve Guard Armour Groups and one Elite Army Group- These forces should provide a boost to the ground defences, while being replaceable even if massive losses are sustained (2% of all PDF, 25% of all Guard, 10% of all elites) -21% base chance

We should have orbital supremacy, letting us use descent class destroyers for orbital bombardment of the enemy. If we don't have orbital supremacy, then the tyranids ate our space fleet and any elites we send are probally lost.

[x] Attempt to claim the position yourself (66% chance, diplomacy check (DC 75) increase chanced )- You believe that you would be the best choice as High Commander, and are willing to devote the time that will be needed to fill this position.

Doomed Wombat said:
Great for Rotbart, but he's already plenty good, spread things out a bit, unlike Julius and Amendor he isn't immortal.
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until he hits transcendent.
 
[] Attempt to claim the position yourself

I want us to do it so that we can get that Paragon Naval Martial perk. because if anything is gonna get us it, it will be planning a sector-wide war against the tyranids.

[X] Deploy twenty-four Guard Armour Groups and two Elite Army Groups - These forces should provide a significant boost to the ground defences, but would lead to replacement issues if massive losses are sustained (50% of all Guard, 20% of all elites) -35% base chance

we cannot afford to potentially lose all of our elites. but we do need to put as much as we can in to defending the worlds.
 
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