Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

Anderein said:

"[] Adhere to your Way, even at a small personal cost"
"[] Prioritize earthly matters"

That's the vote, so why is there any momentum toward the latter choice? Disappointing Shenhua is bad, but directly damaging your odds of reaching Indigo or Violet (let alone Prism or White!) is worse by very many orders of magnitude. If you're going to play, play to win the actual game.

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We are *not* making or breaking our Way here with a single side-vote in Green-2. Our ability to reach Indigo+ or not will not be meaningfully influenced by this single vote!

We are defining, and forming our Way here. This is what the Green Realm is all about, by the way. It's not a vote of [] Way or [] Not Way. It's a vote that might influence how our Way looks in the end. It could be read as weighting the importance of family vs friends and responsibility in our Way but that's a pretty stark interpretation. But not choosing the family option here won't mean we forsake our family or sabotage our Way or declare our Way is not about family. That's way too much effect.

I find the attitude of "spending AP on family is flushing it down a toilet" weird given the nature of the quest and Yrs. When have they ever punished the quest by making a binary choice "everything you worked for turns to ash" and "all your dreams are fulfilled? It's clear in these circumstances the choice is between what benefit you want. And given our domain is "buff our loved ones house" it's not a bad choice and could benefit us.

Don't characterize this as death or glory, that's disingenuous.

[X] In the future, devote more time to your household and your family. (-1AP in future turns)

It is very possible that spending time with our family will get us way bonuses.

Having caught up to the thread i have one observation to make:
I find all the people going for the "it'd be like ignoring our family!" argument to justify throwing away 1Ap per turn for the foreseeable future to be both hilarious and entirely misguided. Remember that the Sect is basically a boarding school-slash-military school.
Ling Qi is the cultivation that spends the most time with her family in the whole Sect. I'm pretty sure there's not a single cultivator on the mountain that goes to talk with their mother or father or little sister on a weekly basis.
The only exception being people like the Su sisters where the sisters are both sect disciples.

[X] In the future, devote more time to your household and your family. (-1AP in future turns)

I can't claim to know whether or not this is the optimal choice from a mechanical perspective(though I suspect it'll benefit our cultivation at some point) but the choice to me seems obvious when looking at it from a narrative perspective. Everything from the last dozen updates screams at me that this is the right choice, at least morally speaking.

I've already mentioned Ling Qi's ambition. Now for another side of her characterization from the very beginning is that she doesn't stop cultivating.

Yan Renshu causing a mess in the living quarters? Ling Qi's cultivating.
Giant clusterfuck of a fight going on in the living quarters from Sun busting out Kang? Ling Qi's cultivating (and would have missed the entire thing if Chu didn't try to play "prevent defense")
Ling Qi arranged her social events around cultivating. Formations with Suyin. Sparring with Su Ling. Hunting with GF.
Ling Qi influenced a broader swath of her classmates into more cultivation effort (e.g. Ma twins onscreen, others offscreen).
Ling Qi is where she is because she doesn't stop cultivating.

So keep cultivating.

EDIT:
PS: It's going to be feel super weird to me if we still get described as a cultivation machine narratively if the family vote wins.

Ayashi said:

Having caught up to the thread i have one observation to make:
I find all the people going for the "it'd be like ignoring our family!" argument to justify throwing away 1Ap per turn for the foreseeable future to be both hilarious and entirely misguided. Remember that the Sect is basically a boarding school-slash-military school.
Ling Qi is the cultivation that spends the most time with her family in the whole Sect. I'm pretty sure there's not a single cultivator on the mountain that goes to talk with their mother or father or little sister on a weekly basis.
The only exception being people like the Su sisters where the sisters are both sect disciples.

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You're not wrong but also how many cultivators make their domain "home for family "

I just see it more as "not cultivating this art but cultivate family"

Rationally speaking, I don't think I can properly justify my vote for spending more time with our family anymore. The core issue of our family troubles has been solved for now and there's not that much indication that simply spending more time with our family will tangibly help with our Domain or Way. I also changed my mind about what Ling Qi would prefer IC - I think it could go either way. Ling Qi's not unaware of the rational argument people are making here, that spending more time with her family would delay her cultivation. Ling Qi will still be there for anything important and will still visit them when she can. I think Ling Qi can recognize that in the long term, to achieve her goal of a home that she can carry on her wings, spending time getting stronger now is more important than spending additional time with her family now. Thinking about it, FVM's domain insight seems to be stronger support for the status quo than LQ's advanced insight is for spending more time with her family as well.

[X] While you will be present as much as you can, your household cannot be top priority yet. (Status quo)

My only issue with this is that I really don't like the phrasing of this option. I guess it's true though, and near perfectly matches FVM's insight.

Sundancer said:

But we... addressed that problem, and changed it? The problem was not spending too little time with our family, but 'talking' to them too little. About actual, meaningful stuff, or our problems and challenges. And Ling Qi resolved to change that for the future (and already did, in the latest updates) completely disconnected from this vote. Our relationship with Qingge already did increase, in part to represent that. It won't suddenly degrade just because of this vote or anything like that.

We had Insights, and addressed them and had them influence our Way. That is stuff that happened. This vote is about future things, our Way, family and friends. I am fine with Ling Qi paying attention to her family. Which she already does. I don't want her to focus too much on it and make the story *all* about them. Which, to be fair, this vote wouldn't, but you see were I am going with this, yeah?

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Frankly, I don't see where you're going with this.

Problem:
-Ling Qi neglects her family for cultivation
--Ling Qi gives freely when its money and its a rounding error in her budget. She's never given anything actually valuable like time.
--She visits at night for a variety of reasons, including avoiding meeting people, prioritizing her cultivator social links, and her spirit social links. And also because she doesn't sleep anyway why not visit at night when none of the important cultivators are doing much with her?
--She gives them little information about events, and does not consult them about events in her life.

We're starting to address things by meeting our family and revealing the truth of things, but a strained family relationship is not something you fix with the equivalent of a weekend at the amusement park.

The 1 AP is the equivalent to committing to having dinner at home everyday together. We're shifting our schedule because if we're visiting our family in the day, when we can actually interact, we have to shuffle our cultivator social obligations to when they can actually interfere with our cultivating schedule.
We've spent less time with our whole family added together than with Suyin or Xiulan.
Because we can't cultivate together.

This is similar to the Bloody Moon Trial IMO:
1) We picked an approach
2) We made headway towards the approach
3) The final step requires potentially taking a loss to our cultivation, so we hesitate and back off from commitment.
3.1) Which winds up with us getting nothing and losing something.

The narrative matters. Ling Qi says her ideals are to be strong enough to carry her friends and family with her as she ascends. But has she ever been willing to take a loss to do so?

[X] In the future, devote more time to your household and your family. (-1AP in future turns)

Doesn't make any sense to build your way around your family and then hardly ever spend time with them so you can advance your career. We will still be spending the vast majority of our time cultivating, but we can sacrifice a little in order to spend more time with the ones we care about.

Our familly is more than just biyu and mom. We have a little (big now) turtle snake brother and a cute little snowflake sister.

I want to spend more times with them all.

[X] In the future, devote more time to your household and your family. (-1AP in future turns)

Orkus Majorkus said:

You're not wrong but also how many cultivators make their domain "home for family "

I just see it more as "not cultivating this art but cultivate family"

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Apparently more than you realize. Family is as relevant to our home domain as a kingdom's worth of subjects are to CRX order. Yet when CRX wasted time on that rather than on her personal trainning she got scolded by Shenhua.
I'm pretty sure the super genius white ranker knows more about cultivation and what should be prioritized than you do, or anyone in this thread.

Seriously, we got ONE lesson from a frieking White rank cultivator, do try to keep it in mind.

veekie said:

Frankly, I don't see where you're going with this.

Problem:
-Ling Qi neglects her family for cultivation
--Ling Qi gives freely when its money and its a rounding error in her budget. She's never given anything actually valuable like time.
--She visits at night for a variety of reasons, including avoiding meeting people, prioritizing her cultivator social links, and her spirit social links. And also because she doesn't sleep anyway why not visit at night when none of the important cultivators are doing much with her?
--She gives them little information about events, and does not consult them about events in her life.

We're starting to address things by meeting our family and revealing the truth of things, but a strained family relationship is not something you fix with the equivalent of a weekend at the amusement park.

The 1 AP is the equivalent to committing to having dinner at home everyday together. We're shifting our schedule because if we're visiting our family in the day, when we can actually interact, we have to shuffle our cultivator social obligations to when they can actually interfere with our cultivating schedule.
We've spent less time with our whole family added together than with Suyin or Xiulan.

This is similar to the Bloody Moon Trial IMO:
1) We picked an approach
2) We made headway towards the approach
3) The final step requires potentially taking a loss to our cultivation, so we hesitate and back off from commitment.
3.1) Which winds up with us getting nothing and losing something.

The narrative matters. Ling Qi says her ideals are to be strong enough to carry her friends and family with her as she ascends. But has she ever been willing to take a loss to do so?

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This is the core of the argument for spending more time with our family, but I'm not sure if there's enough tangible evidence for it. What we're sacrificing when it comes down to it is a little more time interacting with and potentially becoming closer to our family in the next two years. We'll still be interacting with our family and giving them info about our situation if we choose to keep the status quo, we just won't be doing it as much. I'm not sure if it would make sense for this to significantly affect our Domain or Way. The sacrifices are few relative to complying with a friend's death (albeit in a dream).

[X] In the future, devote more time to your household and your family. (-1AP in future turns)

Like others have said, this is consistent with her cultivation path. I'm actually glad the QM gave us this choice. There is no progress, no character development, without meaningful sacrifice.

People seem to be confused about our domain. It's not about " home for our family", it's about "home for us and the people we care about". That includes our friends too.

Based on that, this choice isn't so simple as choosing between following some imagined domain of "family" or not, it's about making a choice to spend time with our family even if it means taking time away from our friends and responsibilities.

The thing is, given how Shenhua treated GG after he failed once, I'm not sure if Ling Qi has the time to spare right now.

I should also mention that had we chosen to go with Xiao Fen first, a similar option might appear where we may or may not decide to spend more AP on our junior sister.

THIS tells me that while status quo states that we still interact with those characters, we can spend more time with them with 1 AP cost. In other words should condition allows it, we can spend AP with our friends as well.

And right now, CRX is said to be straining herself at the moment. In future turns, the same may apply to CRX and our other friends. This rings alarms as while we obviously want to help our friends, we can only do it so much as it would in turn sacrifice our cultivation time.

This is the kind of choice that I would totally do for CRX and GG (Yes, GG even though he is Outer Sect, I want him to succeed) even at the cost of cultivating. And this is not decision to be taken lightly.

Hence why I really need to know the complete benefits of choosing to spend more time with family.

Until then, this is my choice

[X] While you will be present as much as you can, your household cannot be top priority yet. (Status quo)

EternalObserver said:

I should also mention that had we chosen to go with Xiao Fen first, a similar option might appear where we may or may not decide to spend more AP on our junior sister.

THIS tells me that while status quo states that we still interact with those characters, we can spend more time with them with 1 AP cost. In other words should condition allows it, we can spend AP with our friends as well.

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This is a very interesting point. There's been occasional queries asking to be able to spend AP on socials which was something abandoned early on in Forge for apparently good reason.

EternalObserver said:

I should also mention that had we chosen to go with Xiao Fen first, a similar option might appear where we may or may not decide to spend more AP on our junior sister.

THIS tells me that while status quo states that we still interact with those characters, we can spend more time with them with 1 AP cost. In other words should condition allows it, we can spend AP with our friends as well.

And right now, CRX is said to be straining herself at the moment. In future turns, the same may apply to CRX and our other friends. This rings alarms as while we obviously want to help our friends, we can only do it so much as it would in turn sacrifice our cultivation time.

This is the kind of choice that I would totally do for CRX and GG (Yes, GG even though he is Outer Sect, I want him to succeed) even at the cost of cultivating. And this is not decision to be taken lightly.

Hence why I really need to know the complete benefits of choosing to spend more time with family.

Until then, this is my choice

[X] While you will be present as much as you can, your household cannot be top priority yet. (Status quo)

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This is based on the premise that we would have gotten a similar option with Xiao Fen. I don't think there's much evidence for that.

I'm worried about how yrsillar will interpret a decision to not prioritize our household though. Seemingly rational options are not always correct.

veekie said:

Frankly, I don't see where you're going with this.

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I think we have different interpretations in this matter. Let me try to elaborate on mine.

veekie said:

Problem:
-Ling Qi neglects her family for cultivation
--Ling Qi gives freely when its money and its a rounding error in her budget. She's never given anything actually valuable like time.
--She visits at night for a variety of reasons, including avoiding meeting people, prioritizing her cultivator social links, and her spirit social links. And also because she doesn't sleep anyway why not visit at night when none of the important cultivators are doing much with her?
--She gives them little information about events, and does not consult them about events in her life.

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I don't agree with the basic premise of Ling Qi neglecting her family. Ling Qi did make an effort to reestablish contact and reached out, writing Qingge, bring her to the Sect town and further making irregular, ill-timed visits to her. That's not ideal, of course but things could be worse. (And are worse for any of our Peers from what we know, and are also worse for any college student living in a different city in RL)
Now, it's true that Ling Qi wants to bring some degree of 'family' into her Way. I agree with that, but how much is entirely open to discussion. I believe we already do a *lot* for our family and are keeping good contact with them. Qingge's SL with us just reached level 4. That's pretty, pretty good. That's what the current Status Quo is. It's not neglect.

Ling Qi also decided, and followed through, to give her family more information and consult them more from now on. That is not related to this vote, at all. It's done history.

veekie said:

We're starting to address things by meeting our family and revealing the truth of things, but a strained family relationship is not something you fix with the equivalent of a weekend at the amusement park.

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Our strained family life presents itself as SL 4. Which is the level of the highest SL's we have. That's pretty good in my book.
We did work on the strained family relationship since we started writing Qingge. How much effort or not that involved isn't really practical to track with AP since that system didn't exist before.

veekie said:

The 1 AP is the equivalent to committing to having dinner at home everyday together. We're shifting our schedule because if we're visiting our family in the day, when we can actually interact, we have to shuffle our cultivator social obligations to when they can actually interfere with our cultivating schedule.
We've spent less time with our whole family added together than with Suyin or Xiulan.

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Arguable. We get the highlights of Ling Qi's life, not every second of it. It's entirely possible that you are correct, though. I certainly spend more time with my friends and peers than with my family. I hope that does not make me into a bad daughter. ^^+ So I don't see the problem with a teenager spending not the majority of their time with their family.

veekie said:

This is similar to the Bloody Moon Trial IMO:
1) We picked an approach
2) We made headway towards the approach
3) The final step requires potentially taking a loss to our cultivation, so we hesitate and back off from commitment.
3.1) Which winds up with us getting nothing and losing something.

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3.1) is fear mongering. What are we supposed to lose her from not choosing family? Qingge's SL won't suddenly degrade just because of it.
The rest is a possible, if harsh interpretation. My counter point would be that a balanced approach and not committing to everything absolutely is an entirely plausible approach to developing your Way, too. Not everything that touches your Way or can in some way connected to your Way needs to be pursued with the fury of a 1000 suns, else you suffer losses.

veekie said:

The narrative matters. Ling Qi says her ideals are to be strong enough to carry her friends and family with her as she ascends. But has she ever been willing to take a loss to do so?

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The examples are numerous. Ling Qi agreed to let Meizhen pass the Trial, without having any idea about getting Zenghui as a reward, for example.
Furthermore, you point out that Ling Qi ideals are to be strong enough to carry her friends and family. Well, strength is gained by Cultivating. So, Ling Qi deciding to cultivate more to be able to carry her friends and family is entirely in character with her, under this interpretation.