- Location
- Meycauayan, Bulacan, Philippines
I kinda don't understand, but I'm performing guerilla industrialization. I'm plucking money from where no one thought to look for before.
A Little Trouble in Big China - A Chinese Warlord Quest
I kinda don't understand, but I'm performing guerilla industrialization. I'm plucking money from where no one thought to look for before.
Exterminatus
Tsukumogami User
- Location
- Southern California
[X] Liao Zhongkai
- [X] Plan Blue Star
- [X] Plan Blue Star
- Location
- Vicksburg, MS
Well... as it stands, DanBaque and Exterminatus are voting for the H-KMT, while last I checked you are voting to spy on the H-KMT among others and give the info over to the K-KMT and the CBA. I wouldn't exactly consider you to be aligned with them.
Where are they now? | 1927
- Location
- Vicksburg, MS
Also, I thought it might be interesting to make a list of all the characters that have previously been votable options who now no longer are! This can be due to a loss of prominence, death, disappearance or other circumstances.
--ALIVE, BUT NOT VOTABLE--
Li Yuanhong: Qing general (Originally a favorite to take over from Shikai in the Beiyang Republic days as he had in our timeline. To start he was respected by most everyone, was the Vice-President and was in Shikai's will but had refused to take the title of Prince when Shikai offered it to him. Here after being sidelined by Zhang Zuolin he became a minor figure that no one really voted for ever and languished in obscurity, OTL he died in 1928 so his time is probably running out anyway.)
Emperor Pu-Yi: Emperor of Qing (Probably this was intentionally discontinued as he was only available for the one vote right after installation despite being the Qing Emperor up until now. Some possible reasons for it: one, he was fairly powerless at the time and not fully educated. Two, the votes for him to do stuff like rename the Qing into the Holy Eastern Empire, change the flag and adopt the Three Principles of the People seemed rather silly to me. The only thing that came of it was an embarrassing connection with a Japanese royal that served to cause a riot in Beijing.)
Long Jiguang: Fled to Beijing, serves (or served?) Duan Qirui, ex-Guangdong Clique head. Declared Qing anti-communist pact with Li Liejun of the K-KMT against the C-KMT. (This guy was chased out of his powerbase in Canton and wasn't installed back when the Japanese handed it over to Qing. This guy's kind of getting up there in years at 60, OTL he died the same day as Sun Yat-sen in 1925. He could commiserate with Chen Kwing Ming about how much of a bummer it is to lose the city of Canton.)
--DEAD OR MISSING--
Yang Zhengxin: Leader of Xinjiang Clique, assassinated by Sheng Shih-t'sai in 1927. (Nobody seems to have ever flung a vote this way, now he's replaced by a Triumvirate that hates each of the other constituent parts battling against the Soviet-backed CPC-KMT candidate for the region.)
Lu Rongting: Leads Nanning Clique. Never found after Battle of Ngchow against Cheng Qian and Zhang Guotao in 1927. (He had Nanning devolved to him from Sun Yat-sen and, following the start of the war between the KMTs, immediately ran into problems of being invaded since he was so close to their seat of power.)
Tang Jiyao: Leads Yunnan Clique, Cai E successor. Took Changsha, died of pneumonia (or Lin Yurong's curse?) in 1927. (The successor of the guy who initially butted heads with Sun Yat-sen for control over the direction of the KMT, he lived to see the party split from Sun Yat-sen & successors constant leftward march over his objections. His negotiated coalition with the Qing brought him great success in the war against the communists, and he took the C-KMT's capital city just prior to his death.)
Sun Yat-sen: President of Republic of China, founded Chinese Republic, lost Canton and set Tsingyun as capitol, died from liver cancer in 1925 (Probably a much more polarizing figure in this timeline than in ours, but did successfully see through land reform and a fair amount of development in centrally controlled territories even while simultaneously taking step backs elsewhere in the economy and scaring off foreign support. Fled his prized capital city of Canton as the Japanese sailed in.)
Cao Kun: Leader of Zhili Clique, Lord of the Privy Seal, Feng Guozhang successor, beaten to death on Qing Emperor's orders in 1924. (After wresting control of the Privy Seal from Zhang Xun and making many ambitious reforms he became the power behind the throne. He was pretty close to bringing Qing to support even the Left-KMT in war against Japan, but he got lax around the Emperor who hated the scheme and paid for it dearly.)
Zhang Zuolin: Leader of Fengtian Clique, Ex-President of Beiyang, died from train explosion in 1923 (An illiterate man who soared to such heights as the Presidency of Beiyang in an unseen upset and proceeded to squander all political capital on officially selling Chinese land for foreign support just after promoting bitter rivals to positions of high power. Set the stage for the Qing Restoration when they opportunistically booted him out of office to return to his lane in ruling the Northeast. There he actually did a great job in shoring up society to oppose Japan but not so much in hiding his intentions for war, which got him assassinated and left his son to seek revenge.)
Feng Guozhang: Leader of Zhili Clique, died in 1920 (Founder of Zhili Clique whose Wikipedia says he "had to survive part of his early life by playing the violin in disreputable theatres", he was for some time a disputed President of China in our time line but didn't spark so successfully here.)
Ma Anliang: Leads Ma Clique, controls Qinghai and all Muslims in NW China, died in 1919. (This guy started off seeking a more independent route from the Beiyang Republic but immediately joined with Qing when Pu-Yi was restored as he was a Qing loyalist. The ambitious Ma Fuxiang took control of the Ma Clique when Anliang died later on, potentially opening the door to a more independent Ma Clique... that is, had the Qing Emperor not had Cao Kun beaten to death and scared him back in line.)
Cai E: Yunnanese, KMT Republic, died of tuberculosis in 1917. (He played a big role in forcing Yuan Shikai to step down, but died before he could influence much of what happened afterwards. He left Tang Jiyao as his successor in the Yunnan Clique)
--ALIVE, BUT NOT VOTABLE--
Li Yuanhong: Qing general (Originally a favorite to take over from Shikai in the Beiyang Republic days as he had in our timeline. To start he was respected by most everyone, was the Vice-President and was in Shikai's will but had refused to take the title of Prince when Shikai offered it to him. Here after being sidelined by Zhang Zuolin he became a minor figure that no one really voted for ever and languished in obscurity, OTL he died in 1928 so his time is probably running out anyway.)
Emperor Pu-Yi: Emperor of Qing (Probably this was intentionally discontinued as he was only available for the one vote right after installation despite being the Qing Emperor up until now. Some possible reasons for it: one, he was fairly powerless at the time and not fully educated. Two, the votes for him to do stuff like rename the Qing into the Holy Eastern Empire, change the flag and adopt the Three Principles of the People seemed rather silly to me. The only thing that came of it was an embarrassing connection with a Japanese royal that served to cause a riot in Beijing.)
Long Jiguang: Fled to Beijing, serves (or served?) Duan Qirui, ex-Guangdong Clique head. Declared Qing anti-communist pact with Li Liejun of the K-KMT against the C-KMT. (This guy was chased out of his powerbase in Canton and wasn't installed back when the Japanese handed it over to Qing. This guy's kind of getting up there in years at 60, OTL he died the same day as Sun Yat-sen in 1925. He could commiserate with Chen Kwing Ming about how much of a bummer it is to lose the city of Canton.)
--DEAD OR MISSING--
Yang Zhengxin: Leader of Xinjiang Clique, assassinated by Sheng Shih-t'sai in 1927. (Nobody seems to have ever flung a vote this way, now he's replaced by a Triumvirate that hates each of the other constituent parts battling against the Soviet-backed CPC-KMT candidate for the region.)
Lu Rongting: Leads Nanning Clique. Never found after Battle of Ngchow against Cheng Qian and Zhang Guotao in 1927. (He had Nanning devolved to him from Sun Yat-sen and, following the start of the war between the KMTs, immediately ran into problems of being invaded since he was so close to their seat of power.)
Tang Jiyao: Leads Yunnan Clique, Cai E successor. Took Changsha, died of pneumonia (or Lin Yurong's curse?) in 1927. (The successor of the guy who initially butted heads with Sun Yat-sen for control over the direction of the KMT, he lived to see the party split from Sun Yat-sen & successors constant leftward march over his objections. His negotiated coalition with the Qing brought him great success in the war against the communists, and he took the C-KMT's capital city just prior to his death.)
Sun Yat-sen: President of Republic of China, founded Chinese Republic, lost Canton and set Tsingyun as capitol, died from liver cancer in 1925 (Probably a much more polarizing figure in this timeline than in ours, but did successfully see through land reform and a fair amount of development in centrally controlled territories even while simultaneously taking step backs elsewhere in the economy and scaring off foreign support. Fled his prized capital city of Canton as the Japanese sailed in.)
Cao Kun: Leader of Zhili Clique, Lord of the Privy Seal, Feng Guozhang successor, beaten to death on Qing Emperor's orders in 1924. (After wresting control of the Privy Seal from Zhang Xun and making many ambitious reforms he became the power behind the throne. He was pretty close to bringing Qing to support even the Left-KMT in war against Japan, but he got lax around the Emperor who hated the scheme and paid for it dearly.)
Zhang Zuolin: Leader of Fengtian Clique, Ex-President of Beiyang, died from train explosion in 1923 (An illiterate man who soared to such heights as the Presidency of Beiyang in an unseen upset and proceeded to squander all political capital on officially selling Chinese land for foreign support just after promoting bitter rivals to positions of high power. Set the stage for the Qing Restoration when they opportunistically booted him out of office to return to his lane in ruling the Northeast. There he actually did a great job in shoring up society to oppose Japan but not so much in hiding his intentions for war, which got him assassinated and left his son to seek revenge.)
Feng Guozhang: Leader of Zhili Clique, died in 1920 (Founder of Zhili Clique whose Wikipedia says he "had to survive part of his early life by playing the violin in disreputable theatres", he was for some time a disputed President of China in our time line but didn't spark so successfully here.)
Ma Anliang: Leads Ma Clique, controls Qinghai and all Muslims in NW China, died in 1919. (This guy started off seeking a more independent route from the Beiyang Republic but immediately joined with Qing when Pu-Yi was restored as he was a Qing loyalist. The ambitious Ma Fuxiang took control of the Ma Clique when Anliang died later on, potentially opening the door to a more independent Ma Clique... that is, had the Qing Emperor not had Cao Kun beaten to death and scared him back in line.)
Cai E: Yunnanese, KMT Republic, died of tuberculosis in 1917. (He played a big role in forcing Yuan Shikai to step down, but died before he could influence much of what happened afterwards. He left Tang Jiyao as his successor in the Yunnan Clique)
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- Location
- Meycauayan, Bulacan, Philippines
But at the same time the Tong is also a steady supplier of food, salt, guns and gunpowder, and the only information being sent to Chiang Kai Shek is political events so that he could be in position to be the person to surrender to and mediate between the victors and surrendering factions.
Anyone wants to see a Rhine Capitalist China? Then vote Du Yuesheng!
Yes! Du! Yue! Sheng!
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- Location
- Vicksburg, MS
You also supplied bullets to their faces via your guns when Tong gangers defend Canton from them as they tried to reclaim their former capital city. You shipped away what of the defeated remnants of the Qing governor and anarchist forces could fit on your boats to Zhuhai and Beijing. It's not the greatest hostility between factions to exist but that's not really something that a buddy would do.
- Location
- Meycauayan, Bulacan, Philippines
I'm still confused at that part up to this day. I never wrote defend Canton, but entice Qing soldiers and officers to run to the Tong and join the Zhuhai Tong. Something went wrong, must be the dice, must be the membership in the Tong of the family store owners and street peddlers who were spooked by Communists.
Oh, I also made modifications to my plan.
Anyone wants to see a Rhine Capitalist China? Then vote Du Yuesheng!
Yes! Du! Yue! Sheng!
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The Sandman
So Zetta Slowpoke
- Location
- Wherever I am, which isn't where I'm not
To be fair I'm also still not sure why the anarchists helped the reactionaries escape from the socialists, unless that was the work of the guy I'm not controlling.
- Location
- Meycauayan, Bulacan, Philippines
I say its a bad dice roll, narratively translated into someone took things into their own hands.
Have you made further edits to your plan?
Anyone wants to see a Rhine Capitalist China? Then vote Du Yuesheng!
Yes! Du! Yue! Sheng!
- Location
- Vicksburg, MS
IIRC Chun's men had a very successful espionage roll to create more friction between leftists in Canton, and there was the whole section where the Left-KMT were beating anarchist strikers to get back to work in their factories. They could well have considered the surrounding Republican forces surging to reclaim their traditional seat of power much more threatening than the small Qing forces at that remote outpost.
- Location
- Meycauayan, Bulacan, Philippines
But how does that explain the Tong assisting in attacking the Communists? Or was what I thought the correct interpretation, that narratively speaking it was the store owners and street peddlers who were threatened by communism?
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- Location
- Vicksburg, MS
You gained tong members by gifting the Qing garrison and telling them that they could join the Zhuhai tongs should things go south, giving them an escape. So then you had these folks who were fighting first for the governor and then for you if it didn't pan out, along with the guys who were trying to convince them to be buddies which would presumably involve not just standing there as they were massacred. Especially as a bunch of gangsters are probably not the most disciplined people about avoiding fights.
It's also simple to get lost in the intricacies of your plan in that post because it was like a small novel, every point had insane detail and substeps. Getting bogged down in detail is likely to cause confusion about your intentions.
ZealousThoughts
The Wanderer
- Location
- United Kingdom
There is also the fact the Qing Navy had enfilladed the coast line to give people time to escape and shipped in a couple of divisions for the same reason.
With the Qing plan being explicitly to ship out those people of money and influence back north.
With the Qing plan being explicitly to ship out those people of money and influence back north.
Dadarian
The King of Queen's
- Location
- Queen's on the Shore
No, there are a multitude of reasons why the H-KMT hasn't fallen. However the Howell rifles are a reason when they do have ammo available.
You are correct. Greater Zhili is just Zhili Province, although members of the Anhui Clique are subservient to Wu alongside the various armies (insofar as possible in warlord China).
I will absolutely. Don't worry about that.
It's a bit long. If you could cut it down a tad I'd appreciate it.
- - -
I think that's all the questions, so I'll make the due date for orders Thursday, March 21st, 23:59 AST.
I apologize for the lack of map, I moved 4 hours ahead of my mapmaker so communication is a bit tough atm.
If anyone wants to tag older players to see if they want to rejoin, that'd be awesome. My phone is glitching out atm.
Random Member
Gardener of Human Happiness
- Location
- Behind You
[X] Cai Yuanpei
-[X] Plan Black Flag
-[X] Plan Black Flag
- Location
- Denmark
Dadarian
The King of Queen's
- Location
- Queen's on the Shore
Oops.
Qing schools aren't fantastic. The cities are overly crowded and the rural poorly funded if attended due to harvests. However having kids manage to get to school is an achievement in and of itself, given Southern China children aren't exactly focusing on school.
Western China has lovely dirt roads.
That's it.
- Location
- Denmark
Thanks for the answers.
So you guys, I am thinking about improving the infrastructure system with a focus on increase Qings ability to mobilize its military at different potential fronts and especially in the western part of China, since as far as I know it has a rather poor logistical conditions.
I would like some advise on whenever you might think it is a good idea and if I should focus on either on roads or railways?
I was thinking about either changing point 2 or point 3 of my plan into such a infrastructure action.
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BurningLaugh
Shape Shifting Master of Hiatus
- Location
- The Land of Retconnia
perhaps you should combine 2 and 3 into one point since both are focusing on the industrialization of Qing.
Edit: It would also probably be best to focus more on railways then roads but still better the roads of Qing.
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PanzerJaheger
Only sane man in my class
- Location
- Hong Kong
Pretty sure most of Western China is STILL
Dirt roads
VoidZero
Passing Flan 布丁魔王
- Location
- Anywhere but RL
[] Zhang Xueliang
-[] Plan Imperial Court
--[] Sponsor new rail line from Jehol clique across non-hostile clique land to connect to broader Qing market. Collaborate with central government and non-hostile cliques to have it built quickly, rail line construction will be managed by foreign experts. Ownership is in share format, private group/government/clique can buy shares by money / rights to use the land/ material / labor. Jehol will trade out its own share, try to have at least 1/10th owned shares, with various non-hostile clique and central government to clear the way. Jehol will not gain ownership of any land in this business.
--[] Invest in new and better infrastructures, also sell this business to surrounding non-hostile land.
--[] Setup student and teacher exchange of college(s) with friendly Great Powers. The clique and businesses will sponsor if needed.
--[] Encourage the industrialists to invest in the factories and produce more advance products. Radios, trains, and trucks will have very high demand.
--[] Continue pushing the sale of industrial goods, profit from war zones and areas with less taxes. Make use of all connections.
--[] Attend the imperial court in person and bring the unfair treatment of Xueliang by Marshal Wu to the attention of the emperor. Xueliang will make it clear that he have no ambition in high politics and just want to keep the displaced Manchurian people happy. Point to the productive working relationship with the Prime Minister years past and stress that Xueliang did not discriminate. (Leave sealed order with Xu Shichang that the clique will swear allegiance to the Emperor should Xueliang gets killed.)
A few of my actions involve things to that effect, for one reason or another. Which you can take advantage of.
- Location
- Vicksburg, MS
OK!
@Terrafirma , @Jeeshadow , @Stewart9 , are any of you still up to wave the banner for the Right-KMT in the wake of the coalition leader's passing? It seems to be going well so far, and Qing doesn't seem to be in a state to dispute the prizes of war with its continued domestic turmoil.
@Shaseyu , you were acting with the communists, right? There's a ton of new (yet classic!) figures in the CPC toolbox this turn, and an exciting power struggle that could create a communist power in China that actually borders the Soviet Union. I'd have difficulty choosing where to focus.
@HanEmpire I also recall you being here but not what factions you were interested in, but I'm sure a position is open if you are.
I think that's most of the more committed/recent posters who weren't here already.
- Location
- Meycauayan, Bulacan, Philippines
@Dadarian, how's this shortening?
Also, cancelling the phenytoin part, because the use of phenytoin as a medicine only started in 1938.
Vote Du Yuesheng!
YES! DU! YUE! SHENG!
Also, cancelling the phenytoin part, because the use of phenytoin as a medicine only started in 1938.
Vote Du Yuesheng!
YES! DU! YUE! SHENG!
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