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A Little Trouble in Big China - A Chinese Warlord Quest

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*Slams Head on Desk*

By the Emperor!

Edit: Perhaps if we are to also award the status of Special Plenipotentiary of Industry to Wu and have both Marshalls overlooked that field of authority as a way to promote cooperation between them.
@Mortenkam
@VoidZero
@ZealousThoughts
Would it be possible to fuse the two Cliques into one?
 
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BurningLaugh said:
*Slams Head on Desk*

By the Emperor!

Edit: Perhaps if we are to also award the status of Special Plenipotentiary of Industry to Wu and have both Marshalls overlooked that field of authority as a way to promote cooperation between them.
@Mortenkam
@VoidZero
@ZealousThoughts
Would it be possible to fuse the two Cliques into one?
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Again, i did not ask for nor desire the title of Special Plenipotentiary of Industry. The issue is matter of so called industry tax levied by the Zhili clique. The easiest way to remove the clique problem is to kill the weaker one, then so on and so on.
 
My clique is already much more part of the Qing than Zhang. So much that its territory isnt indicated as seperate from the Qing.

You attack the Zhili you are attacking the territory of the Qing.
 
ZealousThoughts said:
My clique is already much more part of the Qing than Zhang. So much that its territory isnt indicated as seperate from the Qing.

You attack the Zhili you are attacking the territory of the Qing.
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Hahaha. How rich, coming from the clique that ate Anhui clique in exchange for not betraying the Qing empire. Do i need to help you remember how you also stole command of green banner from the government? Or the fact that you hadn't done anything to align the Zhili clique closer to the Qing government? Weren't you the one oh so nobly proclaim that you and Qing are one? Why haven't you move closer to the emperor?
 
VoidZero said:
Hahaha. How rich, coming from the clique that ate Anhui clique in exchange for not betraying the Qing empire. Do i need to help you remember how you also stole command of green banner from the government? Or the fact that you hadn't done anything to align the Zhili clique closer to the Qing government? Weren't you the one oh so nobly proclaim that you and Qing are one? Why haven't you move closer to the emperor?
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I cannot move it any closer to the Emperor than I have. I have done everything he has asked of me except kowtow to Zhang.
 
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@Kipeci I'm glad to see that you are at least open to the possibility of cooperating with the Qing. Perhaps in later updates I'll seek to formally establish relations between our Zhangs
 
@Dadarian
I just want to be sure, but Greater Zhili is just the province of Zhili and Anhui, not the whole of East Command (Blue Banner), right?
Dadarian said:
East Command (Blue Banner): Wu Peifu - 80,000 regulars (roughly 6 divisions), 100 artillery pieces, 6,000 horses.
- Military Governor of Zhili: Wu Peifu - 30,000 regulars (roughly 2 divisions), 50 artillery pieces, 2,500 horses.
- Military Governor of Anhui: Duan Qirui - 20,000 regulars (roughly 1 division), 20 artillery pieces, 1,500 horses.
- Military Governor of Hebei: Zhang Xun - 20,000 regulars (roughly 1 division) & 10,000 conscripts, 20 artillery pieces, 1,000 horses.
- Military Governor of Chahar: Fang Zhenwu - 10,000 regulars (roughly 2 divisions) & 15,000 conscripts, 10 artillery pieces, 1,000 horses.
-- Equipment: Hanyang 88s, Maxims (limited numbers).
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Dadarian said:
Northeast Defense Command (Red Banner): Zhang Xueliang - 75,000 regulars (roughly 3 divisions), 150 artillery pieces, 10,000 horses.
- Military Governor of Jehol Enclaves: Zhang Xueliang - same as above.
-- Equipment: Hanyang 88s, Type 30s, Mosin-Nagant, Maxims and Type 3s (limited numbers).
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This is of important, when we look at the map.
I have marked, whom from the East Command, there is military governor in which province, after my best knowledge.
This shows for example that any war between the Jehol Clique and the Greater Zhili Clique would have to go the province of Hebei, which is under the command of Zhang Xun.
So if the Jehol Clique wants to attack The Greater Zhili Clique they would either have to get permission from Zhang Xun to walk through his province or they would also have to declare war on him

@Dadarian Do tell me, if I am wrong about this or if it somehow is out of date.
 
ZealousThoughts said:
I cannot move it any closer to the Emperor than I have. I am not even marked seperate from what I can see.
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You must be cursed with some color blindness, my condolences. Why don't you go to update 1926 and look at the upper eastern coast right where sea is surrounded on three sides. The left side of that sea have the darker color area than the central part, and there is also a darker chunk along the south river. Those are the clique space you occupy, where in your words "rulers acting independent".

Also quit dodging the questions.
 
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Mortenkam said:
I have marked, whom from the East Command, there is military governor in which province, after my best knowledge.
This shows for example that any war between the Jehol Clique and the Greater Zhili Clique would have to go the province of Hebei, which is under the command of Zhang Xun.
So if the Jehol Clique wants to attack The Greater Zhili Clique they would either have to get permission from Zhang Xun to walk through his province or they would also have to declare war on him
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Zhang Xun clique had disappeared into Wu clique when R-KMT and him have a very close conversation.
 
VoidZero said:
Zhang Xun clique had disappeared into Wu clique when R-KMT and him have a very close conversation.
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Dadarian said:
This allowed Chun to engage with many of the warlords from a position of strength, with a loyal army at his back and a bureaucracy that won't be paralysed in the meantime and at a minimal bribe. Most of the warlords immediately were brought into the fold, with the Ma and the Xinjiang Cliques not making a peep in hopes of avoiding notice. However the area of primary interest became the Zhili Clique, which has been shafted from leadership positions for years. Negotiations with Wu would take a wild turn after it was discovered that parallel negotiations were being conducted with elements of the Right-KMT. This gave the impetus to Chun to convince Wu, at the cost of the integration of both Zhili and Anhui cliques into one under Marshal Wu, to stay in the Qing.
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No, as far I can read that were Anhui Clique, which was/is lead by Duan Qirui.
 
Dadarian said:
Industry: Heavily Industrialised Locales - Jehol
Medium Industrialised Locales - Beijing, Nanjing
Low Industrialised Locales - Limited Numbers

Economy: Tax income - High Quantity/Low Quality
Spending - Medium/Low
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VoidZero said:
Ah my apologies, i got the name mixed up. I believe Jehol clique is the 2 bits along the north east border along Manchuria. Since it will not make since for Jehol clique to be levied industry tax had the enclaves not been surrounded by Zhili (Wu) clique.
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I am guessing that the big effect on the Jehol Clique is because both Beijing and Nanjing is under there control, alongside Zhili province likely only have gotten more industry, since 1925, plus likely serve as a important trade route.
 
Mortenkam said:
@Dadarian
I just want to be sure, but Greater Zhili is just the province of Zhili and Anhui, not the whole of East Command (Blue Banner), right?



This is of important, when we look at the map.
I have marked, whom from the East Command, there is military governor in which province, after my best knowledge.
This shows for example that any war between the Jehol Clique and the Greater Zhili Clique would have to go the province of Hebei, which is under the command of Zhang Xun.
So if the Jehol Clique wants to attack The Greater Zhili Clique they would either have to get permission from Zhang Xun to walk through his province or they would also have to declare war on him

@Dadarian Do tell me, if I am wrong about this or if it somehow is out of date.
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Any war in which Zhang declares personal war upon the commander of the Eastern Banner plus the Western Banner will bring him into conflict with both. Plus the Beiyang fleet.

Plus Zhang Xun etc are the direct subordinates of Wu Peifu.
 
Mortenkam said:
I am guessing that the big effect on the Jehol Clique is because both Beijing and Nanjing is under there control, alongside Zhili province likely only have gotten more industry, since 1925, plus likely serve as a important trade route.
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I imagine also that the other generals of the Eastern Banner command are directly under Wu Peifu also.
 
ZealousThoughts said:
Any war in which Zhang declares personal war upon the commander of the Eastern Banner plus the Western Banner will bring him into conflict with both. Plus the Beiyang fleet.

Plus Zhang Xun etc are the direct subordinates of Wu Peifu.
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I doubt that you can necessarily count on the loyalty of all members of the Eastern and Western Banners, especially those of the Western Banner, they seem to have enough troubles to deal with already.
As far as I understand, all the members are still not much more than autonomous warlords.
 
ZealousThoughts said:
I am not taxing goods leaving Jehol any more. I am taxing goods going in.
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With the giving of Domestic Freedoms within his clique, Wu Peifu will announce the implementation of increased tariffs upon goods from within China passing through the Greater Zhili Clique which have not arranged for supply for the Greater Zhili Clique also. This will mean that should Chinese companies, groups or organisations try and use the infrastructure of the Zhili Clique to supply others while disadvantaging the clique they shall pay a 20% premium in tariffs to do so.
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Selective memory is such a wonderfully thing isn't it?
 
Mortenkam said:
I doubt that you can necessarily count on the loyalty of all members of the Eastern and Western Banners, especially those of the Western Banner, they seem to have enough troubles to deal with already.
As far as I understand, all the members are still not much more than autonomous warlords.
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we really need to centralize and break the monopolies on power.
this would allow us to nationalize, industrialize, and mobilize faster, while also preventing individuals from fighting among each other and starting another civil war.
 
BurningLaugh said:
we really need to centralize and break the monopolies on power.
this would allow us to nationalize, industrialize, and mobilize faster, while also preventing individuals from fighting among each other and starting another civil war.
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I have started no war.

Void is just continuing his game of threaten war when he doesnt get what he wants.

This is what happened in the private Qing thread too.
 
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