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Ignition (MTG/Multicross, Planeswalker PC)

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Simon_Jester said:
I dunno. Acting grumpy because we feel disrespected, while continuing to display casual awareness of information that would be momentous by X-COM's standards, might well help establish our bona fides.

Anyone remember the fable, The Princess and the Pea?

An outside agent working for the Ethereals, but posing as a space princess, would be very calm and sensible and levelheaded. Because everything they do, they do for the sake of an overriding plan to infiltrate, and they're almost certainly going to subordinate their pride to the plan.

A real space princess, by contrast, has expectations. :p
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I would rather be casually scary than deliberately self-destructive. We make it obvious that we know we're talking to XCOM anyway. That itself shows information capabilities so good that we treat them as routine. If we save a name drop until the end of the conversation it puts the same pressure on them without destroying the flow of the negotiation and changing the other party's attitude.


Remember, we really want to be taken seriously here. The more serious they treat us the more they'll believe us and the more things we can negotiate for. Acting a child will close doors.
 
Simon_Jester said:
I mean, it kind of is; on some level I'm just rebelling against feeling as if I'm being lectured by people who are telling me I'm stupid. And also more generally against the idea of obsessing over every last detail of everything we say for fear that disaster will strike.
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You're talking to the people who got Agneyasta locked by saying the wrong thing, who caused weeks of trouble with the faunus in Vacuo by using one wrong word, and who have to carefully think through every default option for trap votes (less now, but the defaults in this quest don't automatically lead to answers). Just to pull three examples off the top of my head. Yeah, precise word choice shouldn't matter toooo much, but it's not just word choice: this is a quest where votes and vote direction can cause problems if we don't think them over.
 
Simon_Jester said:
That said, as Subrosian points out, it seems far more likely that we're going to kill the Chosen by some means other than attrition. I don't think "no, we need to keep our abilities hidden so we can find sixty different ways to kill a Chosen through ability exploits" is viable, if only because this quest would become hopelessly boring if we had sixty successive votes on how to come up with new innovative ways to kill Chosen. At some point we're probably going to have to figure out how to track them to their Obelisks. Or otherwise render them irrelevant.
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Agreed. If we're killing the Chosen by attrition, then we're doing it wrong.

(Although I suspect Agneyastra will advocate towards not permanently slaying any Chosen, except for possibly the Sleeper, until much later, after all their citadels have been located and the uplift has progressed to a satisfactory degree. Killing the Chosen would be a blatant hostile move against the Ethereals, so it's something best delayed until the Resistance & Jade are in a winning position.)

SynchronizedWritersBlock said:
The call-out is completely unnecessary. We can just act like we know we're talking to XCOM, which my vote suggestion does, and then do something like "Bye Dr. Valen" at the end. All we do by acting petulant is undermine ourselves. Please stop voting to do this. It is a bad idea.
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Alright, how about the reverse? Lead with a "by the way, hello Dr. Vahlen. I'm pleased XCOM is taking this so seriously." Not particularly rude, still trollish, and could be helpful because:
Simon_Jester said:
continuing to display casual awareness of information that would be momentous by X-COM's standards, might well help establish our bona fides.
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[X] Greet Dr. Vahlen; you're pleased to have gained XCOM's attention so quickly.
[X] That depends on what you receive in return. Anything you trade them will likely end up in the hands of the Ethereals given time, so there are limits, but at the same time you've access to multiple planes with divergent development.
-[X] Query Agneyastra for suggestions on initial offers while you talk.
[X] Speaking of which, you think you'd prefer to discuss the more concrete details in a slightly more secure environment.
[X] Ask the Pilgrims if they could please let you in now. You'd like a real chair and maybe something to drink.
[X] In the meantime, to speed things up when it's time for you to support your claims, is there anything that's believed to be impossible for their tech-base and psionics?
 
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SynchronizedWritersBlock said:
You're talking to the people who got Agneyasta locked by saying the wrong thing, who caused weeks of trouble with the faunus in Vacuo by using one wrong word, and who have to carefully think through every default option for trap votes (less now, but the defaults in this quest don't automatically lead to answers). Just to pull three examples off the top of my head. Yeah, precise word choice shouldn't matter toooo much, but it's not just word choice: this is a quest where votes and vote direction can cause problems if we don't think them over.
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Sure- but I get impish, when I find myself bridling at people telling me how important it is to watch the quest protagonist's tone, when I in turn don't care for their tone.
 
I think our method for dealing the chosen should be unstoppable and overwhelming force.
There's no point in trying to finesse the damn thing, when i'm pretty sure that we can just brute force it, possibly by destroying the soulbelisks.
 
[X] That depends on what you receive in return. Anything you trade them will likely end up in the hands of the Ethereals given time, so there are limits, but at the same time you've access to multiple planes with divergent development.
-[X] Query Agneyastra for suggestions on initial offers while you talk.
-[X] You understand how dire their situation is, and are willing to help, of course, but you also have other commitments that would benefit greatly from their help
-[X] Provide entertainment media for free
[X] Ask the Pilgrims if they could please let you in now. You'd like a real chair and maybe something to drink.
-[X] If they say no, pull a chair out of Agneyastra and a fresh drink.
Adhoc vote count started by Madou Sutegobana on Feb 22, 2019 at 3:18 AM, finished with 67844 posts and 11 votes.
  • [X] That depends on what you receive in return. Anything you trade them will likely end up in the hands of the Ethereals given time, so there are limits, but at the same time you've access to multiple planes with divergent development.
    -[X] Query Agneyastra for suggestions on initial offers while you talk.
    [X] Call Doctor Vahlen out for not saying hello. You wanted to contact XCOM specifically and she doesn't even admit when you succeed? Rude.
    -[X] Also, shouldn't you at least be having this chat in a more secure venue? Dumping loads of intel is good for getting their attention and trust, but now that you actually have the first of those two, you really should be going.
    [X] In the meantime, to speed things up when it's time for you to support your claims, is there anything that's believed to be impossible for their tech-base and psionics?
    [X] Speaking of which, you think you'd prefer to discuss the more concrete details in a slightly more secure environment.
    -[X] Provide entertainment media for free
    -[X] You understand how dire their situation is, and are willing to help, of course, but you also have other commitments that would benefit greatly from their help
    --[X] Ideally one where you can actually make sure you are talking with XCOM instead of someone pretending to be them
    -[X] If they say no, pull a chair out of Agneyastra and a fresh drink.
    [X] Ask the Pilgrims if they could please let you in now. You'd like a real chair and maybe something to drink.
    [x] Tech trades are certainly one of your objectives, but you have to balance what you get against the likelihood that everything you share will make ADVENT and the Chosen more of a pain to deal with.
    -[x] Ask Agneyastra for ideas about what offers to lead with.
    -[X] Ask the Pilgrims if they could please let you in now. You'd like a real chair and maybe something to drink.
    -[X] Also, if they connect whatever storage mediums you give them to something important, you'll need to have a long talk with them about proper cybersecurity.
    [X] Yes, but you're only willing to give them what they could find on the other versions of Earth. You don't trust the Resistance to hold on to the details of more advanced technology, so anything you provide could be stolen by the Ethereals.
    [X] You are willing to share entertainment media for now, as that doesn't represent security risks
    [X] If something more secure is provided call Doctor Vahlen out for not saying hello. You wanted to contact XCOM specifically and she doesn't even admit when you succeed? Rude.
    [X] Greet Dr. Vahlen; you're pleased to have gained XCOM's attention so quickly.
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Adhoc vote count started by Madou Sutegobana on Feb 22, 2019 at 3:20 AM, finished with 67844 posts and 11 votes.
  • [X] That depends on what you receive in return. Anything you trade them will likely end up in the hands of the Ethereals given time, so there are limits, but at the same time you've access to multiple planes with divergent development.
    -[X] Query Agneyastra for suggestions on initial offers while you talk.
    [X] Ask the Pilgrims if they could please let you in now. You'd like a real chair and maybe something to drink.
    -[X] If they say no, pull a chair out of Agneyastra and a fresh drink.
    [X] Call Doctor Vahlen out for not saying hello. You wanted to contact XCOM specifically and she doesn't even admit when you succeed? Rude.
    -[X] Also, shouldn't you at least be having this chat in a more secure venue? Dumping loads of intel is good for getting their attention and trust, but now that you actually have the first of those two, you really should be going.
    --[X] Ideally one where you can actually make sure you are talking with XCOM instead of someone pretending to be them
    [X] That depends on what you receive in return. Anything you trade them will likely end up in the hands of the Ethereals given time, so there are limits, but at the same time you've access to multiple planes with divergent development.
    -[X] Query Agneyastra for suggestions on initial offers while you talk.
    -[X] You understand how dire their situation is, and are willing to help, of course, but you also have other commitments that would benefit greatly from their help
    -[X] Provide entertainment media for free
    [X] In the meantime, to speed things up when it's time for you to support your claims, is there anything that's believed to be impossible for their tech-base and psionics?
    [x] Tech trades are certainly one of your objectives, but you have to balance what you get against the likelihood that everything you share will make ADVENT and the Chosen more of a pain to deal with.
    [X] Call Doctor Vahlen out for not saying hello. You wanted to contact XCOM specifically and she doesn't even admit when you succeed? Rude.
    -[X] Also, shouldn't you at least be having this chat in a more secure venue? Dumping loads of intel is good for getting their attention and trust, but now that you actually have the first of those two, you really should be going.
    [X] Call Doctor Vahlen out for not saying hello. You wanted to contact XCOM specifically and she doesn't even admit when you succeed? Rude.
    [X] Yes, but you're only willing to give them what they could find on the other versions of Earth. You don't trust the Resistance to hold on to the details of more advanced technology, so anything you provide could be stolen by the Ethereals.
    -[X] Also, if they connect whatever storage mediums you give them to something important, you'll need to have a long talk with them about proper cybersecurity.
    [X] Speaking of which, you think you'd prefer to discuss the more concrete details in a slightly more secure environment.
    -[x] Ask Agneyastra for ideas about what offers to lead with.
    [X] Speaking of which, you think you'd prefer to discuss the more concrete details in a slightly more secure environment.
    -[x] Ask Agneyastra for ideas about what offers to lead with.
    -[X] Ask the Pilgrims if they could please let you in now. You'd like a real chair and maybe something to drink.
    [X] You are willing to share entertainment media for now, as that doesn't represent security risks
    [X] If something more secure is provided call Doctor Vahlen out for not saying hello. You wanted to contact XCOM specifically and she doesn't even admit when you succeed? Rude.
    [X] Greet Dr. Vahlen; you're pleased to have gained XCOM's attention so quickly.
    [X] Speaking of which, you think you'd prefer to discuss the more concrete details in a slightly more secure environment.
    -[X] Ask the Pilgrims if they could please let you in now. You'd like a real chair and maybe something to drink.
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Adhoc vote count started by Madou Sutegobana on Feb 22, 2019 at 3:22 AM, finished with 67844 posts and 11 votes.
  • [X] That depends on what you receive in return. Anything you trade them will likely end up in the hands of the Ethereals given time, so there are limits, but at the same time you've access to multiple planes with divergent development.
    -[X] Query Agneyastra for suggestions on initial offers while you talk.
    [X] Call Doctor Vahlen out for not saying hello. You wanted to contact XCOM specifically and she doesn't even admit when you succeed? Rude.
    -[X] Also, shouldn't you at least be having this chat in a more secure venue? Dumping loads of intel is good for getting their attention and trust, but now that you actually have the first of those two, you really should be going.
    --[X] Ideally one where you can actually make sure you are talking with XCOM instead of someone pretending to be them
    [X] That depends on what you receive in return. Anything you trade them will likely end up in the hands of the Ethereals given time, so there are limits, but at the same time you've access to multiple planes with divergent development.
    -[X] Query Agneyastra for suggestions on initial offers while you talk.
    -[X] You understand how dire their situation is, and are willing to help, of course, but you also have other commitments that would benefit greatly from their help
    -[X] Provide entertainment media for free
    [X] Ask the Pilgrims if they could please let you in now. You'd like a real chair and maybe something to drink.
    -[X] If they say no, pull a chair out of Agneyastra and a fresh drink.
    [X] Call Doctor Vahlen out for not saying hello. You wanted to contact XCOM specifically and she doesn't even admit when you succeed? Rude.
    -[X] Also, shouldn't you at least be having this chat in a more secure venue? Dumping loads of intel is good for getting their attention and trust, but now that you actually have the first of those two, you really should be going.
    [X] That depends on what you receive in return. Anything you trade them will likely end up in the hands of the Ethereals given time, so there are limits, but at the same time you've access to multiple planes with divergent development.
    -[X] Query Agneyastra for suggestions on initial offers while you talk.
    [X] Ask the Pilgrims if they could please let you in now. You'd like a real chair and maybe something to drink.
    -[X] If they say no, pull a chair out of Agneyastra and a fresh drink.
    [X] Yes, but you're only willing to give them what they could find on the other versions of Earth. You don't trust the Resistance to hold on to the details of more advanced technology, so anything you provide could be stolen by the Ethereals.
    -[X] Also, if they connect whatever storage mediums you give them to something important, you'll need to have a long talk with them about proper cybersecurity.
    [x] Tech trades are certainly one of your objectives, but you have to balance what you get against the likelihood that everything you share will make ADVENT and the Chosen more of a pain to deal with.
    [X] Speaking of which, you think you'd prefer to discuss the more concrete details in a slightly more secure environment.
    -[x] Ask Agneyastra for ideas about what offers to lead with.
    [X] In the meantime, to speed things up when it's time for you to support your claims, is there anything that's believed to be impossible for their tech-base and psionics?
    [X] Call Doctor Vahlen out for not saying hello. You wanted to contact XCOM specifically and she doesn't even admit when you succeed? Rude.
    [x] Tech trades are certainly one of your objectives, but you have to balance what you get against the likelihood that everything you share will make ADVENT and the Chosen more of a pain to deal with.
    [X] Speaking of which, you think you'd prefer to discuss the more concrete details in a slightly more secure environment.
    -[x] Ask Agneyastra for ideas about what offers to lead with.
    -[X] Ask the Pilgrims if they could please let you in now. You'd like a real chair and maybe something to drink.
    [X] You are willing to share entertainment media for now, as that doesn't represent security risks
    [X] In the meantime, to speed things up when it's time for you to support your claims, is there anything that's believed to be impossible for their tech-base and psionics?
    [X] If something more secure is provided call Doctor Vahlen out for not saying hello. You wanted to contact XCOM specifically and she doesn't even admit when you succeed? Rude.
    [X] Call Doctor Vahlen out for not saying hello. You wanted to contact XCOM specifically and she doesn't even admit when you succeed? Rude.
    -[X] Also, shouldn't you at least be having this chat in a more secure venue? Dumping loads of intel is good for getting their attention and trust, but now that you actually have the first of those two, you really should be going.
    --[X] Ideally one where you can actually make sure you are talking with XCOM instead of someone pretending to be them
    [X] That depends on what you receive in return. Anything you trade them will likely end up in the hands of the Ethereals given time, so there are limits, but at the same time you've access to multiple planes with divergent development.
    -[X] Query Agneyastra for suggestions on initial offers while you talk.
    -[X] You understand how dire their situation is, and are willing to help, of course, but you also have other commitments that would benefit greatly from their help
    -[X] Provide entertainment media for free
    [X] Greet Dr. Vahlen; you're pleased to have gained XCOM's attention so quickly.
    [X] That depends on what you receive in return. Anything you trade them will likely end up in the hands of the Ethereals given time, so there are limits, but at the same time you've access to multiple planes with divergent development.
    -[X] Query Agneyastra for suggestions on initial offers while you talk.
    [X] Speaking of which, you think you'd prefer to discuss the more concrete details in a slightly more secure environment.
    -[X] Ask the Pilgrims if they could please let you in now. You'd like a real chair and maybe something to drink.
    [X] In the meantime, to speed things up when it's time for you to support your claims, is there anything that's believed to be impossible for their tech-base and psionics?
Click to expand...

Adhoc vote count started by Madou Sutegobana on Feb 22, 2019 at 3:30 AM, finished with 67844 posts and 12 votes.
  • [X] That depends on what you receive in return. Anything you trade them will likely end up in the hands of the Ethereals given time, so there are limits, but at the same time you've access to multiple planes with divergent development.
    -[X] Query Agneyastra for suggestions on initial offers while you talk.
    [X] Call Doctor Vahlen out for not saying hello. You wanted to contact XCOM specifically and she doesn't even admit when you succeed? Rude.
    -[X] Also, shouldn't you at least be having this chat in a more secure venue? Dumping loads of intel is good for getting their attention and trust, but now that you actually have the first of those two, you really should be going.
    -[X] Provide entertainment media for free
    -[X] You understand how dire their situation is, and are willing to help, of course, but you also have other commitments that would benefit greatly from their help
    -[X] If they say no, pull a chair out of Agneyastra and a fresh drink.
    [X] Ask the Pilgrims if they could please let you in now. You'd like a real chair and maybe something to drink.
    --[X] Ideally one where you can actually make sure you are talking with XCOM instead of someone pretending to be them
    [X] Speaking of which, you think you'd prefer to discuss the more concrete details in a slightly more secure environment.
    [X] In the meantime, to speed things up when it's time for you to support your claims, is there anything that's believed to be impossible for their tech-base and psionics?
    [x] Tech trades are certainly one of your objectives, but you have to balance what you get against the likelihood that everything you share will make ADVENT and the Chosen more of a pain to deal with.
    -[x] Ask Agneyastra for ideas about what offers to lead with.
    -[X] Ask the Pilgrims if they could please let you in now. You'd like a real chair and maybe something to drink.
    [X] Yes, but you're only willing to give them what they could find on the other versions of Earth. You don't trust the Resistance to hold on to the details of more advanced technology, so anything you provide could be stolen by the Ethereals.
    -[X] Also, if they connect whatever storage mediums you give them to something important, you'll need to have a long talk with them about proper cybersecurity.
    [X] You are willing to share entertainment media for now, as that doesn't represent security risks
    [X] If something more secure is provided call Doctor Vahlen out for not saying hello. You wanted to contact XCOM specifically and she doesn't even admit when you succeed? Rude.
    [X] Greet Dr. Vahlen; you're pleased to have gained XCOM's attention so quickly.
Click to expand...
 
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Okay, so we might be able to kill three or four of the soulbelisks before they figure out what's going on and go underground the way the Sleeper did. So we only have to find creative new ways to kill them thirty times.
 
[X] That depends on what you receive in return. Anything you trade them will likely end up in the hands of the Ethereals given time, so there are limits, but at the same time you've access to multiple planes with divergent development.
-[X] Query Agneyastra for suggestions on initial offers while you talk.

bothekangaroo said:
what happens when her vessel is destroyed is she just helpless in gem form until someone gets her a new body?
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fictionfan said:
Yes. We could likely learn how to become aware and use Mana magic as just a soul, but we have not put any effort into that.
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Observing Vanyel was probably enough to allow Jade to stay aware without a vessel.
Gem-Jade would merely spend a few hours/days on getting Ethereal Vessel (from Vanyel) or Fire Vessel (from Neph) to a rank where she can create a full body from mana.

Vebyast said:
[X] In the meantime, to speed things up when it's time for you to support your claims, is there anything that's believed to be impossible for their tech-base and psionics?
I strongly oppose revealing this capability at this time. Being able to pull a bomb or jet fighter or squad of predators out of storage, or put one into it, is one of those capabilities that, if metered out carefully, might buy us four or five Chosen kills.
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  1. You're against revealing our capabilities, but you want to demonstrate "anything [they ask for] that's believed to be impossible"? They might ask for something we want to reveal even less like our method of planar transport, or something we can't do like resurrection.
  2. I fully agree that showing off subspace is a bad idea. Especially since "pull a bomb out of storage" is the kind of ability that stops us from ever being allowed on the Avenger.
Sapient_Ham said:
[X] Greet Dr. Vahlen; you're pleased to have gained XCOM's attention so quickly.
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Keep in mind that there's a difference between "you're pleased" and "say that you're pleased". In a negotiation, we don't want to be easily offended, pressured, persuaded, or pleased.
 
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I really think we should figure out the whole soul magic/psionics thing first before starting any plans to kill any chosen besides hunter, in fact, he was probably the least dangerous of them considering his lack of them. It's probably the most dangerous thing on the plane considering its the main way of attack for the elders and probably a bunch of the chosen, if we could figure out some way to counter it then it would make things a lot easier.
 
[X] Call Doctor Vahlen out for not saying hello. You wanted to contact XCOM specifically and she doesn't even admit when you succeed? Rude.

I don't have anything against any of the current votes, but I really want to do this.
 
Nachtigall said:
You're against revealing our capabilities, but you want to demonstrate "anything [they ask for] that's believed to be impossible"? They might ask for something we want to reveal even less like our method of planar transport, or something we can't do like resurrection.
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Demonstrating exactly what they list would be fucking stupid, so I'm obviously not saying anything of the sort. You'll also note that I say exactly nothing about this being an opening for them to ask anything. What I want to learn, so that it may inform our future decisionmaking, is what would be the smallest thing we could reveal that would provide the strongest evidence. I am against revealing capabilities inefficiently. I expect that we may need to reveal at least one capability to provide sufficient evidence and to convince XCOM that we have valuable trade material. I am planning several votes ahead to minimize the impact of that potential outcome. Additionally, it's something that we can talk about over a relatively insecure line, because it should theoretically be common knowledge; if we're lucky it may even be sufficiently common knowledge that we'll be able to check how truthful they're being about things.
fictionfan said:
[X] Call Doctor Vahlen out for not saying hello. You wanted to contact XCOM specifically and she doesn't even admit when you succeed? Rude.

I don't have anything against any of the current votes, but I really want to do this.
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Please don't. It's a godawful idea. If you want to have fun, casually name-drop her at the very end of the vote. Doing it up front will ruin all our fun because it'll totally derail what we wanted to say and we'll just get nowhere for several votes. Do it at the end and they have to deal with it in the context of everything else we said. Remember, subtly scary is always more entertaining, especially in the long run, than being an entitled ass "as a joke".
 
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Vebyast said:
Okay, so we might be able to kill three or four of the soulbelisks before they figure out what's going on and go underground the way the Sleeper did. So we only have to find creative new ways to kill them thirty times.
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You assume that we can't just escalate to a point where we can just vaporize the chosen.
They are strong, but they can be beaten with fairly standard weaponry.
We might not be able to do so now, but i am fairly certain we can get there in a reasonable amount of time.
 
Valmond said:
You assume that we can't just escalate to a point where we can just vaporize the chosen.
They are strong, but they can be beaten with fairly standard weaponry.
We might not be able to do so now, but i am fairly certain we can get there in a reasonable amount of time.
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If simple brute force worked, XCOM would have killed them all already. Recall that they are also powerful psions. I expect them to have at least some tricks up their sleeves. I also expect that once we kill them five or eight times each they will very much step up their game.

If we can kill them by voting to [x] kill the chosen, fantastic! If not, I'm still 100% certain that I can brainstorm 60 sufficiently creative ways to murder a Chosen. I was certain of that back when people were power-wanking about it not being safe to be on the same continent as any of them and I'm just as certain of it now.

And what do you gain by prancing around with a glass of iced tea anyway? If you want to be scary there are infinitely better ways to do it, especially given that freely handing out information is negative scary. If you want to convince them that we're from another plane there have been a dozen suggestions for things that wouldn't be hopelessly, uselessly ambiguous, and a few that give nothing important away at all. If you want to have fun, just name-drop Dr. Vahlen at the very end to freak her out. I'm sure that you'd be rather happier getting three or four updates of Dr. Vahlen being very carefully scared shitless. So, maybe, please don't argue to the death about the first random vote you saw, especially given it's been abandoned even by its original author?
 
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Vebyast said:
If simple brute force worked, XCOM would have killed them all already. Recall that they are also powerful psions. I expect them to have at least some tricks up their sleeves. I also expect that once we kill them five or eight times each they will very much step up their game.

If we can kill them by voting to [x] kill the chosen, fantastic! If not, I'm still 100% certain that I can brainstorm 60 sufficiently creative ways to murder a Chosen. I was certain of that back when people were power-wanking about it not being safe to be on the same continent as any of them and I'm just as certain of it now.

And what do you gain by prancing around with a glass of iced tea anyway? If you want to be scary there are infinitely better ways to do it, especially given that freely handing out information is negative scary. If you want to convince them that we're from another plane there have been a dozen suggestions for things that wouldn't be hopelessly, uselessly ambiguous, and a few that give nothing important away at all. If you want to have fun, just name-drop Dr. Vahlen at the very end to freak her out. I'm sure that you'd be rather happier getting three or four updates of Dr. Vahlen being very carefully scared shitless. So, maybe, please don't argue to the death about the first random vote you saw, especially given it's been abandoned even by its original author?
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I don't think it will be just a vote to kill chosen.
But i also doubt it will be a case of us having to come up with 60 unique ways to murder a powerful psychic assassin/warrior either.

XCOM has not been able to kill, so far, maybe they would have eventually, maybe not, be we are not XCOM, we have options they lack.
I suspect one of the bigger issues will be not if we can kill them, but how.
We need to find them, assuming we don't just find the soulbelisk (a trick in and of itself) and nuke it (possibly with literal nukes), get them to a position where they can't escape, and avoid excessive casualties among civilians or XCOM allies.

I did not even want to reveal we were out of the plane just yet, but we did, i did not want to reveal we were a space princess, but we did.
I did not want to imply that our empire was still around, but we did.
At this point, ability to pull out a chair and a drink out of nowhere is hardly the most demanding secret we need to keep, or damaging if we allow it out.
 
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Vebyast said:
Okay, so we might be able to kill three or four of the soulbelisks before they figure out what's going on and go underground the way the Sleeper did. So we only have to find creative new ways to kill them thirty times.
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I'd go with tracking down each and every one of the Soul Obelisks, then laying preparations for a series of lightning raids to destroy them all before anything can be done to move or reinforce them - quite possibly with coordination from XCOM, to keep the base's security forces locked down dealing with them until we arrive to bring the hammer down.
 
Uhh, did x-com even know they could permanently kill the chosen till we just mentioned it here? From what Dr Vahlen was saying it didn't sound like it? Cause if so that's probably why they haven't expended the effort to hunt them down if they just assumed they were immortal monsters that disappeared for a few weeks if you killed them, then came back while everyone that died while fighting them is just gone. I doubt x-com has many teams that could kill a chosen without suffering heavy casualties and if they didn't know if there was a way to properly kill them without attacking a super fortress it seems best to not go out of your way to hunt them down, then again even if they knew is there anything stopping the Elders from just making more? If they didn't know anything about that then I doubt they would put the extra resources and presumably elite teams you would need to kill the chosen in the first place without knowing if they weren't just wasting them, when they could be used more important stuff.

Also, could we show them our necklace? I mean it has an absurd amount of mana is there any way they can get some sort of energy reading of it? Cause I think it would probably be funny if they realised she's wearing a mini star around her neck and probably fuck with them super badly "You shouldn't worry about the reactor in my stomach but the star on my neck" I just find it funny that she walks around with jewellery that can just casually blow up any planet shes on. :V
 
On killing Chosen: we don't need to do it thirty different ways. We have options:
1) Kill them in a way that prevents their resurrection from working. Like throwing them in Blind Eternities.
2) Affect them in a way that will make etherials kill them. A single whif of devoid mana sticking to their souls will do this
3) Affect them in a way that makes them more important as lab subjects for vivisection than they are as Chosen. We have many ways to do that.
4) Genuinely subvert them. We don't know them all, and it might well be possible if we offer the right price
5) Imprison them in a way they can't escape from. Nanite infections that put them in a coma, spells that put them into stasis and other such effects.
6) Kill them in ways they can't counter
7) Kill them in a way that erases their short-term memory and destroys recordings of the kill

On revealing Valern's name: not before better security is established.

[x] Tech trades are certainly one of your objectives, but you have to balance what you get against the likelihood that everything you share will make ADVENT and the Chosen more of a pain to deal with.
[X] Speaking of which, you think you'd prefer to discuss the more concrete details in a slightly more secure environment.
-[x] Ask Agneyastra for ideas about what offers to lead with.
-[X] Ask the Pilgrims if they could please let you in now. You'd like a real chair and maybe something to drink.
[X] You are willing to share entertainment media for now, as that doesn't represent security risks
[X] In the meantime, to speed things up when it's time for you to support your claims, is there anything that's believed to be impossible for their tech-base and psionics?
 
SynchronizedWritersBlock said:
The call-out is completely unnecessary. We can just act like we know we're talking to XCOM, which my vote suggestion does, and then do something like "Bye Dr. Valen" at the end. All we do by acting petulant is undermine ourselves. Please stop voting to do this. It is a bad idea.
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I'm not sure about calling her out but at very least I want to acknowledge her , because as long as we "don't know" we're talking with XCOM* we can't negotiate for the armor commision (hopefully tech too but I don't believe it'll happen today).

* to be more precise, as long as they aren't aware we know we are talking to XCOM

[] Greet Dr. Vahlen, and ask her if she can make agreements on behalf of XCOM
 
Last edited:
Thanks, I edited my post.
Adhoc vote count started by Filraen on Feb 22, 2019 at 9:22 AM, finished with 67864 posts and 17 votes.
  • [X] That depends on what you receive in return. Anything you trade them will likely end up in the hands of the Ethereals given time, so there are limits, but at the same time you've access to multiple planes with divergent development.
    -[X] Query Agneyastra for suggestions on initial offers while you talk.
    [X] Call Doctor Vahlen out for not saying hello. You wanted to contact XCOM specifically and she doesn't even admit when you succeed? Rude.
    -[X] Also, shouldn't you at least be having this chat in a more secure venue? Dumping loads of intel is good for getting their attention and trust, but now that you actually have the first of those two, you really should be going.
    --[X] Ideally one where you can actually make sure you are talking with XCOM instead of someone pretending to be them
    [X] That depends on what you receive in return. Anything you trade them will likely end up in the hands of the Ethereals given time, so there are limits, but at the same time you've access to multiple planes with divergent development.
    -[X] Query Agneyastra for suggestions on initial offers while you talk.
    -[X] You understand how dire their situation is, and are willing to help, of course, but you also have other commitments that would benefit greatly from their help
    -[X] Provide entertainment media for free
    [X] Ask the Pilgrims if they could please let you in now. You'd like a real chair and maybe something to drink.
    -[X] If they say no, pull a chair out of Agneyastra and a fresh drink.
    [x] Tech trades are certainly one of your objectives, but you have to balance what you get against the likelihood that everything you share will make ADVENT and the Chosen more of a pain to deal with.
    [X] Speaking of which, you think you'd prefer to discuss the more concrete details in a slightly more secure environment.
    -[x] Ask Agneyastra for ideas about what offers to lead with.
    [X] In the meantime, to speed things up when it's time for you to support your claims, is there anything that's believed to be impossible for their tech-base and psionics?
    [X] Call Doctor Vahlen out for not saying hello. You wanted to contact XCOM specifically and she doesn't even admit when you succeed? Rude.
    -[X] Also, shouldn't you at least be having this chat in a more secure venue? Dumping loads of intel is good for getting their attention and trust, but now that you actually have the first of those two, you really should be going.
    [X] Yes, but you're only willing to give them what they could find on the other versions of Earth. You don't trust the Resistance to hold on to the details of more advanced technology, so anything you provide could be stolen by the Ethereals.
    -[X] Also, if they connect whatever storage mediums you give them to something important, you'll need to have a long talk with them about proper cybersecurity.
    -[X] Also, please keep it on a need to know basis. If XCOM can create a system for mind reading, the Ethereals almost certainly can too.
    [X] Call Doctor Vahlen out for not saying hello. You wanted to contact XCOM specifically and she doesn't even admit when you succeed? Rude.
    -[X] Also, shouldn't you at least be having this chat in a more secure venue? Dumping loads of intel is good for getting their attention and trust, but now that you actually have the first of those two, you really should be going.
    [X] That depends on what you receive in return. Anything you trade them will likely end up in the hands of the Ethereals given time, so there are limits, but at the same time you've access to multiple planes with divergent development.
    -[X] Query Agneyastra for suggestions on initial offers while you talk.
    [X] Ask the Pilgrims if they could please let you in now. You'd like a real chair and maybe something to drink.
    -[X] If they say no, pull a chair out of Agneyastra and a fresh drink.
    [X] Yes, but you're only willing to give them what they could find on the other versions of Earth. You don't trust the Resistance to hold on to the details of more advanced technology, so anything you provide could be stolen by the Ethereals.
    -[X] Also, if they connect whatever storage mediums you give them to something important, you'll need to have a long talk with them about proper cybersecurity.
    [X] Call Doctor Vahlen out for not saying hello. You wanted to contact XCOM specifically and she doesn't even admit when you succeed? Rude.
    -[X] Also, shouldn't you at least be having this chat in a more secure venue? Dumping loads of intel is good for getting their attention and trust, but now that you actually have the first of those two, you really should be going.
    --[X] Ideally one where you can actually make sure you are talking with XCOM instead of someone pretending to be them
    [X] That depends on what you receive in return. Anything you trade them will likely end up in the hands of the Ethereals given time, so there are limits, but at the same time you've access to multiple planes with divergent development.
    -[X] Query Agneyastra for suggestions on initial offers while you talk.
    -[X] You understand how dire their situation is, and are willing to help, of course, but you also have other commitments that would benefit greatly from their help
    -[X] Provide entertainment media for free
    [X] Greet Dr. Vahlen; you're pleased to have gained XCOM's attention so quickly.
    [X] That depends on what you receive in return. Anything you trade them will likely end up in the hands of the Ethereals given time, so there are limits, but at the same time you've access to multiple planes with divergent development.
    -[X] Query Agneyastra for suggestions on initial offers while you talk.
    [X] Speaking of which, you think you'd prefer to discuss the more concrete details in a slightly more secure environment.
    -[X] Ask the Pilgrims if they could please let you in now. You'd like a real chair and maybe something to drink.
    [X] In the meantime, to speed things up when it's time for you to support your claims, is there anything that's believed to be impossible for their tech-base and psionics?
    [X] That depends on what you receive in return. Anything you trade them will likely end up in the hands of the Ethereals given time, so there are limits, but at the same time you've access to multiple planes with divergent development.
    -[X] Query Agneyastra for suggestions on initial offers while you talk.
    -[X] You understand how dire their situation is, and are willing to help, of course, but you also have other commitments that would benefit greatly from their help
    -[X] Provide entertainment media for free
    [X] Ask the Pilgrims if they could please let you in now. You'd like a real chair and maybe something to drink.
    -[X] If they say no, pull a chair out of Agneyastra and a fresh drink.
    [X] Call Doctor Vahlen out for not saying hello. You wanted to contact XCOM specifically and she doesn't even admit when you succeed? Rude.
    [x] Tech trades are certainly one of your objectives, but you have to balance what you get against the likelihood that everything you share will make ADVENT and the Chosen more of a pain to deal with.
    [X] Speaking of which, you think you'd prefer to discuss the more concrete details in a slightly more secure environment.
    -[x] Ask Agneyastra for ideas about what offers to lead with.
    -[X] Ask the Pilgrims if they could please let you in now. You'd like a real chair and maybe something to drink.
    [X] You are willing to share entertainment media for now, as that doesn't represent security risks
    [X] In the meantime, to speed things up when it's time for you to support your claims, is there anything that's believed to be impossible for their tech-base and psionics?
    [X] Ask the Pilgrims if they could please let you in now. You'd like a real chair and maybe something to drink.
    -[X] If they say no, pull a chair out of Agneyastra and a fresh drink.
Click to expand...
 
[X] Ask the Pilgrims if they could please let you in now. You'd like a real chair and maybe something to drink.
-[X] If they say no, pull a chair out of Agneyastra and a fresh drink.
 
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