Should the world be a Low Fantasy setting?

  • Yes

    Votes: 63 70.0%
  • No

    Votes: 27 30.0%

  • Total voters
    90
  • Poll closed .
Would have preferred Tech because they were more long term.

Don't really have much of an opinion on this because none of us really foresaw the mess of a civ that is the Maradysh.
I'm not trying to salt, but there were people voting for the diplo hero that did so specifically because they can negate crit fails, and guess what happened with our first action with the Maradysh?

I myself voted for a diplo hero because I knew that attempting to integrate them was going to be a long and painful process; one that a diplo hero could greatly shorten and smooth out.
But the past is the past, and we must now make do with what we have on hand.
 
They can leave on amicable terms anyway and while there is possibility of the attack there is no such thing at the moment as they know that they can't attack us and win one on one.
How in all the world are we supposed to part on an amicable term with a civilization whose values read any terms of gifts as a goddamned insult?! Especially by giving then more "gifts" of prestige and Legitimacy?!

No. No. Fuck to the hell no.
Ok, the "gift" of legitimacy was more of a joke. We aren't "giving" them anything physical, or even metaphorical here. Unless their hatred of gifts goes really deep.

We are just telling them that it's okay. They are their own people, and we are okay with them leaving.
Declaring independence is never amicable. Not unless we accept their new leadership.
 
Losing the Legitimacy is actually good here. It brings our Legitimacy back to normal levels.

Not really, it shows that people have trust in their leadership, by losing our Legitimacy we are losing trust our people have in us, while we really don't need that because If we lose to much our civ implodes.

Basically people don't want to listen to their neglectful leadership and that normally leads to strong men taking power.

I would rather keep that legitimacy for when we need it.
 
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To be quite honest if people are going for the legitimacy loss option and it might win, I'd rather just go to war.
Ome thing to give them what they want, but completely unnecessary to bring them out to eat and serve it to them on a silver platter.
 
Not really, it shows that people have trust in their leadership, by losing our Legitimacy we are losing trust our people have in us, while we really don't need that because If we lose to much our civ implodes.

Basically people don't want to listen to their neglectful leadership and that normally leads to strong men taking power.

Having such a high legitimacy is a double edged sword. The leadership is trusted, but it is also UNQUESTIONED, which allow rot to slide in when we're not looking.
 
I'm not trying to salt, but there were people voting for the diplo hero that did so specifically because they can negate crit fails, and guess what happened with our first action with the Maradysh?

I myself voted for a diplo hero because I knew that attempting to integrate them was going to be a long and painful process; one that a diplo hero could greatly shorten and smooth out.
But the past is the past, and we must now make do with what we have on hand.
...to be fair, I did think a Diplo Hero was rather useless at the time. Really regretting that now.

A smooth talker would have been so useful for dealing with maniacs.
Losing the Legitimacy is actually good here. It brings our Legitimacy back to normal levels.
Alright, how?! How is that good?!

According to Oshha, this is what Legitimacy does
Legitimacy: The right to rule by the current leadership and how confident the people are in their ability/right to rule.
In short, Legitimacy is the acknowledgement of the people towards their leadership. An overlevelled Legitimacy means that the people of Arthwyd are very much trusting the leaders of Arthwyd, and by consequences, their trust to "us" as the voters to lead them to a brighter future. It probably has a connection to the public order, faction moods, events, and a bunch of other background rolls that Oshha only knows about. But all I can see is that a high Legitimacy is certainly good and certainly not that easy to gain.

So. Explain to us all, if you will, in concrete terms, why bringing them back to normal levels is a good thing.
 
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Having such a high legitimacy is a double edged sword. The leadership is trusted, but it is also UNQUESTIONED, which allow rot to slide in when we're not looking.
Oh come on. Even if we got a middling to high Legitimacy, the rot still has a possibility to sets in! That's pretty much what the background rolls were for!
 
Inserted tally
Adhoc vote count started by nat_401 on Feb 20, 2019 at 6:06 PM, finished with 144 posts and 47 votes.
 
Having such a high legitimacy is a double edged sword. The leadership is trusted, but it is also UNQUESTIONED, which allow rot to slide in when we're not looking.

Leadership is not unquestioned, it means that it is doing a good job in eyes of the people, the same moment we do something that they don't like we lose our Legitimacy, if we are unquestionable we wouldn't even lose our Legitimacy.

What we are doing now is the things our people don't like over trivial thing, instead of saving our Legitimacy for when we need it.
 
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Leadership is not unquestioned, it means that it is doing a good job in eyes of the people, the same moment we do something that they don't like we lose our Legitimacy, if we are unquestionable we wouldn't even lose our Legitimacy.

When the time are good, people are not going to be "questioning" little cracks within the facade.

Oh come on. Even if we got a middling to high Legitimacy, the rot still has a possibility to sets in! That's pretty much what the background rolls were for!

There's different rate of rot and different rate of visibility. High legitimacy may decrease the visibility of rot in the background.
 
...to be fair, I did think a Diplo Hero was rather useless at the time. Really regretting that now.

A smooth talker would have been so useful for dealing with maniacs.

Alright, how?! How is that good?!

According to Oshha, this is what Legitimacy does

In short, Legitimacy is the acknowledgement of the people towards their leadership. An overlevelled Legitimacy means that the people of Arthwyd are very much trusting the leaders of Arthwyd, and by consequences, their trust to "us" as the voters to lead them to a brighter future. It probably has a connection to the public order, faction moods, events, and a bunch of other background rolls that Oshha only knows about. But all I can see is that a high Legitimacy is certainly good and certainly not that easy to gain.

So. Explain to us all, if you will, in concrete terms, why bringing them back to normal levels is a good thing.
This is something that was learned by the veterans of PoC:
We are not the leadership of the Arthwyd.
Legitimacy is not just the thing that lets us do more with less people complaining.

It is the people of our civ and how much trust they place in their current government, which right now is the Cadion.
If the Cadion decided to do something that we don't like, and the people follow them unquestioningly, well...
 
When the time are good, people are not going to be "questioning" little cracks within the facade.



There's different rate of rot and different rate of visibility. High legitimacy may decrease the visibility of rot in the background.

There is literally no base for that , if you have rot in the system you will have it constantly no matter how high your legitimacy is, because as long things go good all is good, if you wish for rot to dissappear you need to plunge entire legitimacy down the sink and change entire structure of leadership .

No system is perfect, and expectin it to be is expecting total obedience from all members of you community .
 
When the time are good, people are not going to be "questioning" little cracks within the facade.



There's different rate of rot and different rate of visibility. High legitimacy may decrease the visibility of rot in the background.
Have to agree with Star. There's no basis in that argument whatsoever.

Unless @Oshha came in with a WoG.
 
This is something that was learned by the veterans of PoC:
We are not the leadership of the Arthwyd.
Legitimacy is not just the thing that lets us do more with less people complaining.

It is the people of our civ and how much trust they place in their current government, which right now is the Cadion.
If the Cadion decided to do something that we don't like, and the people follow them unquestioningly, well...

I think i know what you want. You are still sore because priests lost power and you think that by cutting legitimacy from the leadership will stop them from pulling something of, like crowning a king.

But what you are ignoring is our values and the fact that past leadership lost power because the loss of legitimacy, it's not just one general that committed the qu, he was supported by another and most of the military as well.

By having a high legitimacy we are keeping a current system going, not current leadership.

If leader try to do something against the interest of our civ and their values they will stop him.
 
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[X] Send the Catclaws south to crush the Maradysh and bring them back under the rule of he People. (War with the Maradysh)
[X] Let them be and not escalate the situation futher. (-1 Prestige, Maradysh may no longer be a vassal of the Arthwyd, ???)

Changing vote (last time i swear)
At this point its just a matter of preventing the loss of legitimacy unnecessarily.
 
I think i know what you want. You are still sore because priests lost power and you think that by cutting legitimacy from the leadership will stop them from pulling something of, like crowning a king.

But what you are ignoring is our values and the fact that past leadership lost power because the loss of legitimacy, it's not just one general that committed the qu, he was supported by another and most of the military as well.

By having a high legitimacy we are keeping a current system going, not current leadership.

If leader try to do something against the interest of our civ and their values they will stop him.
I've come to accept that Monarchy is now our new government type, although I do still think it is inferior yes :p
I am telling you the fact that over-leveled legitimacy means that the civ has incredible devotion to the leadership, and that the leadership is not always going to align with what we want.

I don't need to be salty about a vote from awhile ago to tell you that lol
 
So over leveled legitimacy means = blind devotion to the state?
Sounds very likely.
I think i know what you want. You are still sore because priests lost power and you think that by cutting legitimacy from the leadership will stop them from pulling something of, like crowning a king.

But what you are ignoring is our values and the fact that past leadership lost power because the loss of legitimacy, it's not just one general that committed the qu, he was supported by another and most of the military as well.

By having a high legitimacy we are keeping a current system going, not current leadership.

if leader try to do something against the interest of our civ and their values they will stop him.
My god man, all that would happen is we lose ONE Legitimacy, going from 4/3 to 3/3 AKA still maximum Legitimacy. It won't cause any kind of trouble. Stop poisoning the well.
 
As a Addendum to what Raichu said.

The QM is a Unreliable narrator, take everything you see as a mirage.

To be clear, everything I say as the QM is accurate as of that point in time. However, characters in the updates will view things from their own in-universe perspective which may or may not be biased or lacking accurate or complete information.

So over leveled legitimacy means = blind devotion to the state?
effectively uncontested authority amongst the People. Evalyn's rulings and orders are almost treated as if they were from the goddesses themselves.

Unless @Oshha came in with a WoG.
Blind faith in the current leadership can result in people not questioning things when they go wrong or making up excuses to justify failures or abuses of power.

After all, if the King speaks with the authority of the goddesses, they must be correct and clearly the critics of their regime that they just had killed surely did something deserve it. How could a King who is chosen by the goddesses do something corrupt or abuse their power to hurt innocent people? No, those people were obviously not innocent and must had committed some sort of crime. /s
 
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Literally this quest uses incredibly similar mechanics to PoC. in my mind its a question of whats different as opposed to whats the same. IMO @Star youd need a WoG that legitimacy is different. That and QM rated raichus post insightful.

But what do I know... im a lurky boi.

Edit: ninja'd by qM
 
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Sounds very likely.

My god man, all that would happen is we lose ONE Legitimacy, going from 4/3 to 3/3 AKA still maximum Legitimacy. It won't cause any kind of trouble. Stop poisoning the well.
My point is that we don't need to spend it now. There will be a situation in which we need legitimacy, but we may not have it enough.
 
My point is that we don't need to spend it now. There will be a situation in which we need legitimacy, but we may not have it enough.
Legitimacy has uses beyond just being a buffer, as said by both myself and the QM.
It's not "spending" legitimacy; it is showing that even the infallible Cadions can make mistakes.
 
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