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Mafio Party

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Sure, but it is still perfectly possible for them to have been the target.

There are various potential reasons for there not to have been a kill the last night, ranging from Rosalina Paranoia to being busy taking other actions. I will need to look through their posts later when I'm more rested to see why people claim to have been suspicious of them before (The only thing I remember is a mention of WC trying to get them to post) but currently it just fits together too neatly for me to doubt the claim. It doesn't feel right for them to be scum, and all the details that match up are being mentioned by me instead of by them. Which... Well, if they made it up in such a perfect way to slot together like this and didn't actually bring up how it connects I'd be surprised.

All I can really do is explain why I believe it, I don't exactly have a good target to lynch instead of them so...

Oh yeah. @Joebobjoe @Rikimaru @Pawn Lelouch, mind switching over to someone else? Medieval is part of my two person mason group (Which is incredibly frustrating) so we're better off lynching someone else as the secondary.
 
Going to do a small lookover of LMBF's posts and then likely switch off onto him since I don't believe he's contributed anything.
 
Pawn Lelouch said:
Going to do a small lookover of LMBF's posts and then likely switch off onto him since I don't believe he's contributed anything.
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I'm not sure why scum would agree to let town control their claimed PR just because I asked, with no momentum behind them though? A powerful scum team would honestly probably assume something close to role madness, and fakeclaiming a PR would be disastrous with that caveat. And scum are going to want to claim a PR, especially if they're near a lynch- Riki was a massive fluke and miracle that isn't going to happen very often at all. I recall that being my main reason for really thinking he was town.
 
If I am doing suspicious behaviour it's because I am sorta finding it difficult to pay attention to anything much irl anyway and I don't have anything to really add.
 
[X] Null
Will try to find an actual person to vote tomorrow morning. For now though can see the wisdom in getting off of medieval.
 
Also I'm not going to check Nictis

Because between what Terra and Nani have told me and that claim he's definitely town, no matter how much we may disagree. I'll have to think of some one else...
 
Letmebefree said:
Eh, Sure why not, I will listen to the town but a few scum might guide my action without any of us knowing.
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Agreeing to BB's request of if he reveals, to allow town to control his targets. Basically him agreeing to take away any responsibility from his actions which could be a way to reduce any information against him. And I can see a scum member agreeing to have their actions directed depending on the power to build up town cred and potentially lie about it if they hit a teammate.

Letmebefree said:
Still not sure what to do but i know what broken base was like last game so their love for compeating wagons is normal, I don't want to die.

Still im seeing arguments for who to lynch and I like the idea broken base is throwing down but I'm not sure if I should vote for winged cat.

Sure I may be a wild card but that's the fun of a wild card, your just as likely to get lucky as you are to not.

I'm trying not to be a troll this game but that just how I am, I don't follow one specific mindset I just do what my brain tells me to do, wether that's killing derpmind n1 or attempting to kill a town roll by using the vig.

But that's the me I'm trying not to be this game so give me a chance to prove that I am different.

Still not going to vote for now but I will reveal if I have to.
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Waffling back and forth on lynching WC and saying that he would be willing to reveal to survive. The first part is relevant since here he was leaning away from lynching WC even though he ended up being on that train.

Letmebefree said:
Honesty winged cat is digging himself into a deeper hole post by post.

I'm not sure what to think this is way to aggressive for having 4 votes and now 5 like seriously its like you want to be lynched.
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If LMBF is town this is noting that WC is acting way too agressive. If he's mafia then this is a warning to WC to back off and calm down before town pushes back even harder.

Letmebefree said:
Yeah I'm willing to take the risk just hope it doesn't come back to bite me.
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Right before he votes up WC.

Letmebefree said:
[x] Lynch Winged Cat
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This is pretty much the biggest point in LMBF's favor of being town, since he was on the train when WC went down.

Letmebefree said:
I'm my opinion there is probably going to be some form of corrupt code although there might be an npc like browser in his special challenges, but yeah I'm not going to change my vote but I'm not really feeling like my current target is scum.
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Pushing the corrupt code idea that Riki was earlier I believe, which still reads as extremely weird to me.

Letmebefree said:
Yeah riki is being a bit unusual and I would like a role claim from them but I understand if they don't want to or we get a better target.
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Saying Riki is sus but then pulling back.
Letmebefree said:
Yeah I don't think either of you are scum but... I don't know I trust you both but then again i can't trust either of you just like no one can trust anyone unless the have an ability that lets them know.

[X] No lynch
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Waffling about the gladiator position before no lynching.

Letmebefree said:
May I ask if you are a hammer bro?

I myself believe broken base for a number of reasons but I have not much to add I did my night action (yes I do have one) without any trouble and didn't learn anything I don't already know.
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Taking the common opinion of trusting BB and then not saying anything outside of revealing as a PR, which is common enough that it isn't exactly surprising.

Letmebefree said:
Hmm I just woke up and I'm not sure who to vote, qt seems pretty sus but so does medievalparadox but only on a lesser scale so

[X] Lynch QTesseract
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Basically just following the main voting trend.

So basically I'm seeing someone who is kinda useless to town outside of his potential power, but still tentatively leans town in my mind based on staying on the WC train though it still could be bussing.

If this was Nictis, Terrabrand, etc I would actually be much more suspicious of these posts, since I could see some of them acting as easy ways of getting town credit without lying while still advancing scum agenda. But I don't think it would work that well for LMBF unless he has a really good player coaching him.

And I'll null Paradox and look for someone since LMBF isn't the best option.

[X] Null
 
Broken Base said:
I'm not sure why scum would agree to let town control their claimed PR just because I asked, with no momentum behind them though? A powerful scum team would honestly probably assume something close to role madness, and fake-claiming a PR would be disastrous with that caveat. And scum is going to want to claim a PR, especially if they're near a lynch- Riki was a massive fluke and miracle that isn't going to happen very often at all. I recall that being my main reason for really thinking he was town.
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They wouldn't necessarily have to fake claim though. There have been cases where mafia has a normally town role like tracker or rolecop. So if they have a role like that it's perfectly reasonable for the mafia player to agree to work with town and be directed.

It allows them to still gather information for their team after all while building up town credit and if they're in a trusted position if they are directed at their teammate they'll likely be in a position to lie about their findings and push away attention for a while which can be invaluable as scum. Basically, I'm looking at it from my past experiences as scum and I can safely say I would love to be able to do this if the powers allow for it. So I'm suspicious of other players trying to pull off something like this.
 
Pawn Lelouch said:
They wouldn't necessarily have to fake claim though. There have been cases where mafia has a normally town role like tracker or rolecop. So if they have a role like that it's perfectly reasonable for the mafia player to agree to work with town and be directed.

It allows them to still gather information for their team after all while building up town credit and if they're in a trusted position if they are directed at their teammate they'll likely be in a position to lie about their findings and push away attention for a while which can be invaluable as scum. Basically, I'm looking at it from my past experiences as scum and I can safely say I would love to be able to do this if the powers allow for it. So I'm suspicious of other players trying to pull off something like this.
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*Brighton flashbacks* people had like three town players on the shrinking possible scum list while ignoring Cakestepid just because he could honestly claim he was a tracker.
 
Pawn Lelouch said:
Though every investigative caught Cake the last night at once which was hilarious to have happen.
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Yep. But it still covers the point.

That's actually a particularly good example because Cakestepid was limitedly rolecop proof in that game. The Black Order Ritualist was the only Black Order member who would show with a kill while he was alive, so had Cake been checked early the Witch Hunters might have thought him legit confirmed town.
 
Nictis said:
Sure, but it is still perfectly possible for them to have been the target.
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Possible yes, plausible no. People went on the wagon as soon as the day started, and anyone who was actually paying attention would have noticed that. Not just something I'm saying in retrospect; why do you think I jailed them?

They're a big, useful distraction; Maf would be better served by picking almost literally any other non-maf player if they're town. And the almost is just down to transporter shenanigans.
 
Broken Base said:
I'm not sure why scum would agree to let town control their claimed PR just because I asked, with no momentum behind them though? A powerful scum team would honestly probably assume something close to role madness, and fakeclaiming a PR would be disastrous with that caveat. And scum are going to want to claim a PR, especially if they're near a lynch- Riki was a massive fluke and miracle that isn't going to happen very often at all. I recall that being my main reason for really thinking he was town.
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Why wouldn't they? So long as they're not the one doing the killing, it's pretty easy to just do what town says and lie if they're an investigative role.
 
Might regret this later but oh well. QT wasn't the only one with the idea of stay low and not be super townie in most people's minds to avoid being on the kill priority list. Though he didn't make sure to do some town aligned things to not become super suspicious to most players.

I'm the doctor and there's a 50-50 chance I was behind the lack of a kill N2, though I am still decently suspicious of our claimed rolecop for previously stated reasons. N1 I protected BB since I figured she was a prime target and N2 I protected Nictis since I thought that they would go back to finish the job.

I'm Yoshi and I basically swallow a player and then spit them out in a thin shell that should protect them from any attacks in the night. Since I protected the 7 legendary babies I've always been a protector at heart and I'm glad that I can still protect my fellows.
 
Broken Base said:
Because between what Terra and Nani have told me and that claim he's definitely town, no matter how much we may disagree. I'll have to think of some one else...
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I'm still wondering why you even thought I was suspicious in the first place, up until QT you've been agreeing with just about every point I brought up so I doubt that's it.
 
I'm almost offended scum probably didn't try to kill me.

... And now I should probably go for a new target. Hmm. Bah, being sick and distracted with trying to do setup stuff and blah is making it hard for me to consider good alternate targets.

For now;

[x] Null
 
Terrabrand said:
I'm almost offended scum probably didn't try to kill me.

... And now I should probably go for a new target. Hmm. Bah, being sick and distracted with trying to do setup stuff and blah is making it hard for me to consider good alternate targets.

For now;

[x] Null
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Why don't we throw up an updated claims list? I think we've gotten what, two claims since then essentially or info about people
 
Nictis said:
Now, as far as things that I've noticed while catching up... It seems like the biggest issue you have with QT is a difference in how you'd play the role @Broken Base. I'm mainly noticing this because QT is playing it a lot more like I would have. I personally believe roles like that are better suited at finding out the people who don't stand out during the Day than being used to 'Confirm' the people who we are already looking at. Gets a good core of people you can trust if you survive later on, and you don't have to step out to say someone is innocent and face the scrutiny yourself ('I think they're scum buddies!')

Keeps you lower in the kill priority as well, what with you only needing to step up if you find scum than just to protect a single Townie who wasn't able to explain that they were Town.
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I mean, I'm not going to die on the hill of "Q is scummy because there is an objectively correct way to play cop!" While I can potentially concede most of my gripes on this front, I'm... deeply skeptical about Rem, tbh, here is a player that we all think is faking his claim and the character that could check that exact claim out, and stop shade being thrown Rem's way even today, and this could have been avoided if Q had just picked a clearly suspicious person who is clearly suspicious, precisely because of issues with his role/claim. I feel like there is a line between "Objectively correct way to play cop" and "this play... doesn't really seem to make much sense."

Nictis said:
Now, there are a few other interesting things here. For one, we don't actually know if Cyricube would see you as Town or as an NPC. Your Miller power works by people looking at you and thinking of all the games where you were an NPC, and that matches up perfectly with QT's claim of how their power works. Their description also matches up perfectly with the lynch of Luigi, so it really feels like both the expected Godfather and the known Miller support the claim.
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IT's just... I would find their claim compelling if I hadn't claimed. They had over a gameday to both frame a claim themselves, and scumbuddies to help them. I can't find the similarities and coherency that impressive.

Nictis said:
There hasn't been a counterclaim (powerwise), and balance wise I think that Daisy was expected to be not as powerful as they seem to be. If they aim blindly then these are the results. Town+Town=Clear, Scum+Scum=Clear, Scum+NPC=Not Clear (ie. Lynch the NPC, 'Look guys, they weren't Town!') Town+NPC=Not Clear (Lynch either a survivor or Town, lynching Town puts suspicion on Daisy or requires an additional lynch of the Survivor. Either way, two Lynches Wrong) and Town+Scum (Lynch one or the other) That's some interesting results nyeh? (Also, seems likely to bypass the Godfather by fluff, comparing gardens rather than character) Daisy is not that powerful of a role, and they can't check anyone a second time, meaning they can't compare results.
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1. If there's a scum rolecop, I doubt there's going to be a town rolecop tbh.
2. I concede that they can't compare results but I don't think that's the powerful counter you're framing it as to be honest. I could come up with a hypothetical but I don't want to do a hypothetical duel, I feel like you're still presenting the data in a really negative light here. Also I'm not sure why you're framing scum and scum as clear at all. All it demonstrates is that they have the same alignment, not that they're both innocent. You'd have to be a pretty naive player to frame it in those terms, I think. Let's also not forget the framework of the game, where we have a bunch of roles that are super easy to confirm. So you have a bunch of targets that will be confirmed town (or close to it), potentially a confirmed NPC (there could very well be one just for this task) and so on. There are plenty of ways to get fruitful results here. It's worth noting that we're always going to be talking purely in hypotheticals, so I'm not sure either side is going to really "win" out concerning Daisy's power. She could be strong, or she could be weak. I think that given the overall setup and role madness nature, however, she is going to have far greater tendency to be strong than you're letting on, and that has to be compensated for.

Nanimani said:
Why wouldn't they? So long as they're not the one doing the killing, it's pretty easy to just do what town says and lie if they're an investigative role.
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Not really? Cops are common, so you don't want to be one of those lest you get counter-claimed, unless you are a scum cop which would be possible to fish out NPCs but also be... weird, and also probably make more sense in a 6 person scumteam. 5 at least. Tracker and watcher are obvious no-gos... basically any provable investigative PR you run into deep deep problems, potentially. Admittedly until this Day I didn't really consider the possibility of scum having a PR and feeding the other player information, which gets around this issue, so I'll drop that point. I think LMBF is somebody I want to do a Let's Read for now.

Nictis said:
I'm still wondering why you even thought I was suspicious in the first place, up until QT you've been agreeing with just about every point I brought up so I doubt that's it.
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I feel like we were just over this. I can't give you specific posts or points because I did the PBPA back on Day 2 and so much has happened both in game and RL that I forget the main points. if you really need me to find it, I'll see what I can do. But you were one of the few people that could have bussed Winged Cat at deadline (8/18, sinking ship, etc. etc.) and were one of the three people on the wagon at all that could be scum, reasonably, the way things played out. Is that necessarily airtight? No. And for Day 2 you were my less favored option compared to joebobjoe or Q because you had made the strongest contributions and I felt like your Riki push did feel genuine but it felt like you didn't do much else concrete. Then it turns out that I screwed up and joebobjoe had voted much earlier. Which meant that only you two could have bussed. I am POSITIVE someone did, while I know you disagree, and I wanted to get rid of both you and Q in order to test who the busser was. It turns out that you are obviously town. So it must be Q and I have no need to lynch you.
 
Broken Base said:
Also I'm not sure why you're framing scum and scum as clear at all. All it demonstrates is that they have the same alignment, not that they're both innocent.
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Yes, and if one dies it points out the other as also scum. But for that Day, I think it's a lot more likely for people to move on since it's a lot more likely to mix and match when finding scum than to choose two scum at the same time.
Broken Base said:
So you have a bunch of targets that will be confirmed town (or close to it)
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Well, Toad and Toadette, Peach, annnd I'm out of roles that confirm as Town.
Broken Base said:
she is going to have far greater tendency to be strong than you're letting on, and that has to be compensated for.
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I disagree, any time she finds someone as Not Town, there's two people that would have to be checked, and there isn't a guarantee that the one not lynched is Town. If you lynch the wrong one, it takes up two Days to act on the info. And Daisy will only ever get a single read on people, so they can't check the other one against another player as a litmus test of sorts.
 
Cyricubed said:
Why don't we throw up an updated claims list? I think we've gotten what, two claims since then essentially or info about people
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That might help.


Total claims-
Winged Cat: Claimed CPU Lynched and proven: Luigi

Rikimaru: Claimed Shy Guy/Vanilla Town - Backed by Notteboy and somewhat by

Archeo Lumio: No claim however proven: Waluigi at the start of Day 2

Cyricubed: Claim of Daisy and investigative

Derpmind: Claim of NPC and a power. Somewhat backed by BB in that NPC's exist

Broken Base: Claim of Bowser, however if investigated will show up as NPC

Terrabrand: Claim of Wario. Claims Multivoter.

Joebobjoe: Softclaim of being a minion of bowser, named as well. Claims unspecified power.

Lizard Knight: BB says received letter last night that he is CPU, later claims Peach?( Needs clarification) States saying he was NPC was mistake

Nictis: Claims Toadette, claims MedievalParadox is Toad. Mason claim.

Notteboy97: Claims Koopa Trooper/softclaim of Vanilla.

Cheese4every1: Claims Rosalinna, and a form of transporter

QTesseract: Claims Mario and Rolecop.

Nanimani: Claims Donkey Kong and Jailor.

Rem: Claims King Boo/Medium.

Ellf: Claims unspecified Town.

Pawn Lelouch: Claims to be Yoshi, a Doctor.

MedievalParadox: Claimed by Nictis to be Toad, a mason.

No claims: Letmebefree,

Night action claims:

N1:

QTesseract claims investigated Ellf. Claims Ellf is vanilla.

Nanimani jailed Rikimaru going by claims.

Cyricubed claims investigated Terrabrand and Derpmind, result of not same alignment. This would be true by the claims, however Derpmind could also be lying scum (or so could Terrabrand going by publicly proven information) and lead to this result.

Cheese4every1 claims Transported Rikimaru and Archeo Lumiere. This is supported by Rikimaru's night flavor claims and Archeo's death.

LizardKnight claims sent a letter proving alignment to Broken Base. The latter claimed this letter occured as well, and in fact revealed it first.

Pawn Lelouch claims healed Broken Base

N2:

Cheese4every1 claims Transported Terrabrand and Derpmind. Both players independently mentioned being transported before this claim.

Nanimani claims jailed QTesseract. Q also claims this, but only in response to the claim.

LizardKnight claims sent letter to Cyricubed. Cyricubed claims the same.

Cyricubed claims investigated Rikimaru and Ellf, result of Same Alignment.

Pawn Lelouch claims healed Nictis.
 
So at this point we pretty much can assume there's lies going down, I think.

[X] Lynch Joebobjoe

Gimme a reason not to lynch you, @Joebobjoe. You and LMBF are the only ones not openly claiming an at least vaguely plausible power.
 
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