Omri honestly believes taking mana from non-mages doesn't hurt their long-term health. I'm not willing to believe they know the dangers of Devoid if making these Devoid spirits is a known, non-banned practice in Magnostadt.
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Ignition (MTG/Multicross, Planeswalker PC)
- Thread starter Alivaril
- Start date
-
- Tags
- fairy tail magi: the labyrinth of magic magic the gathering magical girl lyrical nanoha (magical girl) puella magi madoka magica rwby alternate universe spoilers unreliable narrator earned your happy middle feedback appreciated life slowly gets better metaknowledge is overrated never too much fire setting knowledge not required this can only end well what could possibly go wrong?
That is a possible interpretation of Jade. Especially if her precognition is taken into account.So, clearly Jade is a Goddess of Fate, which is why their anti-Fate measures make her unhappy, so they should increase Devoid production to protect themselves from her influence.
Really, though, this would depend strongly on their reason for making devoid rukh. We can probably provide safer alternatives for all possible goals they might be doing this for, but we'd need to know those goals first.
I suspect that giving them knowledge of land tapping, if it's actually possible around here (and not prevented by rukh) would be enough. And, depending on how corrupt (some) of their leadership is, we could simply bribe those with immortality.
Also, yeah, frankenvote is best vote, and there's no reason not to use help.
[x] Quick telepathic conference.
-[x] Mostly you and Agneyastra. Include Nanoha, Sidhe, and Mitra so they know what's going on.
-[x] Agneyastra already knows how insanely dangerous Devoid is, but it wouldn't hurt to reiterate and fill in the others.
-[x] Your first instinct: Purge it post-haste. You'll respect Magnostadt's sovereignty and run this through their equivalent of a counter-terrorism or police force, but if they take too long or try to claim to know what they're doing you will take action.
[X] Defer to Yastra on whether we'll let her handle things or wether we'll speak ourselves (with telepathic coaching), and how public or private we'll keep things.
[X] If we're the one speaking: No, you're not okay. They're manufacturing Devoid mana. Do they even realize how horrifyingly dangerous that is?
-[X] Ask them what measures they have against total reality collapse they are courting.
--[X] Give lecture on the nature of Devoid mana and its dangers.
---[X] No, you don't know of any such measures yourself besides not using Devoid Mana at all.
---[X] You can use it yourself, more safely than them even, but even you know better.
-[X] Colorless is OK, but they've gone too far out the other side.
-[X] Unless they do, in fact, have such measures that would satisfy both you and Agneyastra 110% (not likely), stopping experimentation with Devoid mana is an absolute requirement for any negotiation
--[X] You are willing to help them create substitutes for whatever it is they use Devoid mana for.
There would be people willing to sacrifice their life for someone or something. Knowing the truth, such sacrifice becomes pointless. The only people making Devoid Rukh would be those wanting to destroy the world.
Also, making Devoid Rukh seems to be a nontrivial action, or else there would be a lot more of them. And the end of the world is not instant (the world is still here), I expect Magnostadt authorities would be able to counteract these people. It's like posting nuclear codes and arresting everyone who tries to enter them.
...We really need a device able to locate Devoid mana.
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- Location
- Dark side of the sun
edit: i have accepted the MAGIC of frankenvote
[x] Quick telepathic conference.
-[x] Mostly you and Agneyastra. Include Nanoha, Sidhe, and Mitra so they know what's going on.
-[x] Agneyastra already knows how insanely dangerous Devoid is, but it wouldn't hurt to reiterate and fill in the others.
-[x] Your first instinct: Purge it post-haste. You'll respect Magnostadt's sovereignty and run this through their equivalent of a counter-terrorism or police force, but if they take too long or try to claim to know what they're doing you will take action.
[X] Defer to Yastra on whether we'll let her handle things or wether we'll speak ourselves (with telepathic coaching), and how public or private we'll keep things.
[X] If we're the one speaking: No, you're not okay. They're manufacturing Devoid mana. Do they even realize how horrifyingly dangerous that is?
-[X] Ask them what measures they have against total reality collapse they are courting.
--[X] Give lecture on the nature of Devoid mana and its dangers.
---[X] No, you don't know of any such measures yourself besides not using Devoid Mana at all.
---[X] You can use it yourself, more safely than them even, but even you know better.
-[X] Colorless is OK, but they've gone too far out the other side.
-[X] Unless they do, in fact, have such measures that would satisfy both you and Agneyastra 110% (not likely), stopping experimentation with Devoid mana is an absolute requirement for any negotiation
--[X] You are willing to help them create substitutes for whatever it is they use Devoid mana for.
[x] Quick telepathic conference.
-[x] Mostly you and Agneyastra. Include Nanoha, Sidhe, and Mitra so they know what's going on.
-[x] Agneyastra already knows how insanely dangerous Devoid is, but it wouldn't hurt to reiterate and fill in the others.
-[x] Your first instinct: Purge it post-haste. You'll respect Magnostadt's sovereignty and run this through their equivalent of a counter-terrorism or police force, but if they take too long or try to claim to know what they're doing you will take action.
[X] Defer to Yastra on whether we'll let her handle things or wether we'll speak ourselves (with telepathic coaching), and how public or private we'll keep things.
[X] If we're the one speaking: No, you're not okay. They're manufacturing Devoid mana. Do they even realize how horrifyingly dangerous that is?
-[X] Ask them what measures they have against total reality collapse they are courting.
--[X] Give lecture on the nature of Devoid mana and its dangers.
---[X] No, you don't know of any such measures yourself besides not using Devoid Mana at all.
---[X] You can use it yourself, more safely than them even, but even you know better.
-[X] Colorless is OK, but they've gone too far out the other side.
-[X] Unless they do, in fact, have such measures that would satisfy both you and Agneyastra 110% (not likely), stopping experimentation with Devoid mana is an absolute requirement for any negotiation
--[X] You are willing to help them create substitutes for whatever it is they use Devoid mana for.
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Nixeu
Lord of Madness, Harbinger of Llamas
- Location
- Your nightmares.
*Slithers back in, hoping no one noticed my absence*
Now, it's entirely possible that 1/10th of a mote is expensive to him. It makes sense that other mages work on smaller scales, since they may be sharing the local land and mana sources with several other mages. With enough mages, even a 5 mote land like Magnostadt is going to be giving fractions of a mote. Unless you have an allocation method, of course. But we can't say for sure that he considers that a lot of mana.
If I might digress in my own tinfoil-hatting, I almost wonder if Sidhe'sh high personal mana output is due to the lower mage density on her home plane. Maybe average individual mage power and population size are inversely proportional. Or maybe the only mana mages on Earthland are gods, and Sidhe's a demigod. Who knows.
[x] Quick telepathic conference.
-[x] Mostly you and Agneyastra. Include Nanoha, Sidhe, and Mitra so they know what's going on.
-[x] Agneyastra already knows how insanely dangerous Devoid is, but it wouldn't hurt to reiterate and fill in the others.
-[x] Your first instinct: Purge it post-haste. You'll respect Magnostadt's sovereignty and run this through their equivalent of a counter-terrorism or police force, but if they take too long or try to claim to know what they're doing you will take action.
[X] Defer to Yastra on whether we'll let her handle things or wether we'll speak ourselves (with telepathic coaching), and how public or private we'll keep things.
[X] If we're the one speaking: No, you're not okay. They're manufacturing Devoid mana. Do they even realize how horrifyingly dangerous that is?
-[X] Ask them what measures they have against total reality collapse they are courting.
--[X] Give lecture on the nature of Devoid mana and its dangers.
---[X] No, you don't know of any such measures yourself besides not using Devoid Mana at all.
---[X] You can use it yourself, more safely than them even, but even you know better.
-[X] Colorless is OK, but they've gone too far out the other side.
-[X] Unless they do, in fact, have such measures that would satisfy both you and Agneyastra 110% (not likely), stopping experimentation with Devoid mana is an absolute requirement for any negotiation
--[X] You are willing to help them create substitutes for whatever it is they use Devoid mana for.
Oh, agreed. Alivaril has planned on exploiting our assumptions before. We shouldn't preemptively burn people in robes with crowns of thorns. Be careful of them, yes, but not murder them immediately. Which, I would think, would be the normal response to someone wearing an accessory that could easily harm them. Seriously, where do they even get those things?
I will point out, again, that he said it was "more expensive than it really needs to be". He implied it's a spell that trades cost for simplicity and ease-of-use. It's a crude, unrefined, lazy sort of spell, and thus not as efficient at it might otherwise be.
Now, it's entirely possible that 1/10th of a mote is expensive to him. It makes sense that other mages work on smaller scales, since they may be sharing the local land and mana sources with several other mages. With enough mages, even a 5 mote land like Magnostadt is going to be giving fractions of a mote. Unless you have an allocation method, of course. But we can't say for sure that he considers that a lot of mana.
If I might digress in my own tinfoil-hatting, I almost wonder if Sidhe'sh high personal mana output is due to the lower mage density on her home plane. Maybe average individual mage power and population size are inversely proportional. Or maybe the only mana mages on Earthland are gods, and Sidhe's a demigod. Who knows.
Excellent observations. Particularly the one about how difficult making Devoid must be, given the low density. It could be that making Devoid is a possible result of removing the color of Rukh. Similar to how Uranium-235 usually undergoes fission when hit with a neutron, but sometimes just eats the neutron to become Ur-236 instead, maybe Rukh, when hit with whatever spell they use, either splits from it's color, or, more rarely, eats the spell and breaks into Eternity.
[x] Quick telepathic conference.
-[x] Mostly you and Agneyastra. Include Nanoha, Sidhe, and Mitra so they know what's going on.
-[x] Agneyastra already knows how insanely dangerous Devoid is, but it wouldn't hurt to reiterate and fill in the others.
-[x] Your first instinct: Purge it post-haste. You'll respect Magnostadt's sovereignty and run this through their equivalent of a counter-terrorism or police force, but if they take too long or try to claim to know what they're doing you will take action.
[X] Defer to Yastra on whether we'll let her handle things or wether we'll speak ourselves (with telepathic coaching), and how public or private we'll keep things.
[X] If we're the one speaking: No, you're not okay. They're manufacturing Devoid mana. Do they even realize how horrifyingly dangerous that is?
-[X] Ask them what measures they have against total reality collapse they are courting.
--[X] Give lecture on the nature of Devoid mana and its dangers.
---[X] No, you don't know of any such measures yourself besides not using Devoid Mana at all.
---[X] You can use it yourself, more safely than them even, but even you know better.
-[X] Colorless is OK, but they've gone too far out the other side.
-[X] Unless they do, in fact, have such measures that would satisfy both you and Agneyastra 110% (not likely), stopping experimentation with Devoid mana is an absolute requirement for any negotiation
--[X] You are willing to help them create substitutes for whatever it is they use Devoid mana for.
[X] No, you're not okay. They're manufacturing Devoid mana. Do they even realize how horrifyingly dangerous that is?
toooooooooo much micromanagement
toooooooooo much micromanagement
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
[X] No, you're not okay. They're manufacturing Devoid mana. Do they even realize how horrifyingly dangerous that is?
Vebyast
Nascent Transhuman
Potentially useful if anyone challenges us on knowledge - being able to produce an illusion of something so hostile that just its image hurts people is solid evidence that we understand it better than anyone else.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
[X] No, you're not okay. They're manufacturing Devoid mana. Do they even realize how horrifyingly dangerous that is?
[X]If they doubt your knowledge make an illusion of eternity.
[X]If they doubt your knowledge make an illusion of eternity.
- Location
- Germany
[X] Tell Agneyastra about the Devoid spirits, mention how insanely dangerous it is, and let her handle it. You cannot into diplomacy.
-[X] Colorless is OK, but they've gone too far out the other side.
-[X] Tell her to handle it discreetly, not in front of a public audience; the mere knowledge that Devoid mana can destroy the world is dangerous, if it reaches the wrong ears.
-[X] If Agneyastra believes the warning/ultimatum would have significantly more impact coming from you, do it yourself, but follow her telepathic coaching.
[X]If they doubt your knowledge make an illusion of eternity.
Talking about a new type of magic while half the academy is listening invites imitation, and we do NOT want that.
-[X] Colorless is OK, but they've gone too far out the other side.
-[X] Tell her to handle it discreetly, not in front of a public audience; the mere knowledge that Devoid mana can destroy the world is dangerous, if it reaches the wrong ears.
-[X] If Agneyastra believes the warning/ultimatum would have significantly more impact coming from you, do it yourself, but follow her telepathic coaching.
[X]If they doubt your knowledge make an illusion of eternity.
Talking about a new type of magic while half the academy is listening invites imitation, and we do NOT want that.
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While it isn't conclusive against that, I find very curious that all of the Magnostadt land mana is unused if they can use it (thus share it) as mana source.
[X] Quick telepathic conference.
-[X] Mostly you and Agneyastra. Include Nanoha, Sidhe, and Mitra so they know what's going on.
-[X] Tell Agneyastra about the Devoid spirits, mention how insanely dangerous it is, and let her handle it. You cannot into diplomacy this, not yet.
-[X] Colorless is OK, but they've gone too far out the other side.
-[X] Tell her to handle it discreetly, not in front of a public audience; the mere knowledge that Devoid mana can destroy the world is dangerous, if it reaches the wrong ears.
-[X] If Agneyastra believes the warning/ultimatum would have significantly more impact coming from you, do it yourself, but follow her telepathic coaching.
I want N+S+M to know this is about Devoid.
Archeo Lumiere
The Prince's Archivist
- Location
- Lumiose City, Kalos
- Pronouns
- He/Him/They/Them
[X] Filraen
Nixeu
Lord of Madness, Harbinger of Llamas
- Location
- Your nightmares.
They may tap the smaller environmental sources, the mana that's immediately around them. Or, they tap the highways of mana we noticed. It's been stated that we tap mana somewhat differently to the natives, who seem to usually use more immediately available mana, to the point where us tapping lands on some worlds would interfere with their existing systems.
Madou Sutegobana
Autocorrupt has been disabled.
- Location
- Twin Realms Mandala
[X] Yog
If they could tap lands, why are they tapping civilians?
If they could tap lands, why are they tapping civilians?
I'm not sure if five motes worth of mana (Magnostadt's daily production) is that much as far as "magic upkeep costs for a whole city" goes.
- Location
- A Table Near You
Motes are not quantities of magic sufficient to run an entire city. In this quest, a single mote is a large, but still personal unit of magic:
Jade's potential power as planeswalker stems not from her ability to wield motes worth of magic, but from the fact she can quickly learn any form of magic, and will eventually have access to thousands of motes.
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
Yeah, it's a pretty small amount of mana considering the amount of land we're getting it from - presumably it's therefore sustainable? The real strength is once we're bonded, we can access it forever instantly and with no costs. Every other form of magic I believe involves some cost in getting the power in the moment each time, be it preparation time, effort, concentration or draining personal reserves that have limited growth (if any).
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Nixeu
Lord of Madness, Harbinger of Llamas
- Location
- Your nightmares.
So, from this, we can determine that the average mage would be using one fortieth of their daily personal supply, or...what, 2.5%? on that counterspell. Not that much, but significant, especially for what's essentially a one-shot, purely defensive purpose. You couldn't chuck them around all day, and, in a duel, where you're running offense, defense, and (generally, in local fights) flight? Yeah, I could see that being considered a bit costly. Especially if there are ways to reduce that cost.
Note that this also assumes they're a Blue mage. If there's a conversion factor on them using Blue, that could be an even higher percentage.
One fourth is actually a lot, though it probably doesn't seem like it. Think about it. For most mages, any spell requiring one mote would be something they can only use four times a day. Seems like a significant amount of mana to me. Especially since, as you say, we don't know if that amount can increase. From what I can tell, most mages just get more efficient in their mana usage with age and experience.
...Geez. Even summoning Astra would wipe most mages out for the day, much less Sidhe or Nanoha. I can certainly see why the amounts of power we tap regularly might seem excessive to normal mages.
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
Sure it's a lot, but we're drawing it from very large tracts of land. Comparatively speaking, we aren't draining nearly as much as might be there.
Archeo Lumiere
The Prince's Archivist
- Location
- Lumiose City, Kalos
- Pronouns
- He/Him/They/Them
Nixeu
Lord of Madness, Harbinger of Llamas
- Location
- Your nightmares.
...Damn. Beat me to it.Would you call them... Huge trachts of land?
And yeah, we're not draining the land fully. I think. I guess maybe we are, and mages just generally produce a lot of mana naturally, more than most lands. Could explain Magnostadt's extreme mana potential.