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The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up

Investigate the Sea?

  • Yes

    Votes: 593 80.4%

  • No

    Votes: 145 19.6%
  • Total voters
    738
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inverted_helix said:
The problem with the idea that as a fortress world we should be eating as many invasions as possible, is that classically those fortress worlds were propped up with resources from other worlds to compensate for the steady damage from all those invasions.

However Avernus doesn't get any sort of compensation or even tax credit for enduring sieges, so each attack just further strains our resources and delays our development.

People compare us to Cadia, but Cadia wasn't expected to maintain production of everything its defenses needed or a balanced budget. Massive resources were funneled into it.
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Not to mention that due to it's position that the Imperium would have likely dedicated a lot of resources to the planet and the Imperium had millions of worlds to gain resources to redistribute from.

Doomed Wombat said:
Yeah, it is getting to the point that we should probably bring it up.

Like "guys, we're happy being the thing you throw people at, but we do need support from you beyond sending your soldiers...and stop sending me rude messages when they get killed by the wildlife, its not my fault they apparently taste delicious to Blink Spiders!"
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Actually from a practical standpoint it seems like it would be better if we talked the Trust into putting the resources to turn one of the other core worlds into a fortress world so that we can switch which planet gets invaded each time a serious war comes to avoid fatigue building up due to constant warfare. I think our local space marines homeworld would be a good choice since they only lack orbital defenses.
 
Red Bovine said:
Not to mention that due to it's position that the Imperium would have likely dedicated a lot of resources to the planet and the Imperium had millions of worlds to gain resources to redistribute from.



Actually from a practical standpoint it seems like it would be better if we talked the Trust into putting the resources to turn one of the other core worlds into a fortress world so that we can switch which planet gets invaded each time a serious war comes to avoid fatigue building up due to constant warfare. I think our local space marines homeworld would be a good choice since they only lack orbital defenses.
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I'd be up for that, but I think we should consider just how hard it is to MAKE a fortress world.....it would probly take at bare minimum, 100+ (ish) plus to get that planet to the point that we can fling fleets their way as easily as we can to ourselves.
 
Tom Smith said:
I'd be up for that, but I think we should consider just how hard it is to MAKE a fortress world.....it would probly take at bare minimum, 100+ (ish) plus to get that planet to the point that we can fling fleets their way as easily as we can to ourselves.
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Should be pointed out that I suggested Byzantium since it's the homeword of the Vanagarian Guard and already has level 6 defenses. It's only lacking when it comes to orbitals.
 
Nurgle said:
I know I am trying to get how much more stupid. Like the necron all he did was advance his troops to the target.
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Indeed he did. He also didn't make any blatantly stupid mistakes - his tactics were completely uninspired, and consisted of having his forces march forward menacingly. This Warboss apparently is bad enough that he'll take any bait, fall into any trap, and almost always pick the worst option available to him. Apparently he gets by because he's really big and tough and can generally survive the consequences of his own stupidity.
 
@Enjou thanks also we should divine where these guy came from and see if we can arrange for him to invade the local ork realm. You know if the warboss is not killed on accident.
 
Nurgle said:
@Enjou thanks also we should divine where these guy came from and see if we can arrange for him to invade the local ork realm. You know if the warboss is not killed on accident.
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Absolutely not, even if we could (it's too far off course). He's an idiot, but he's got a big enough fleet and group of Orks that he'd overwhelm and subsume the other Orks. It would just make things worse.
 
Enjou said:
Absolutely not, even if we could (it's too far off course). He's an idiot, but he's got a big enough fleet and group of Orks that he'd overwhelm and subsume the other Orks. It would just make things worse.
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I am thinking of next time. If he proves to be that much of a idiot we can use him to severely weaken the orks nearby.
 
[X] svartalfheim, freyr variant

Ground fighting sucks but I don' want to ruin Midgarduan or Vanir infrastructure. Avernus needs a break from invasions and I like the idea of seeing Svatalfhiem. Could be a nice place and tunnel fighting is a brand new experience.
 
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Adhoc vote count started by Andres110 on Apr 27, 2018 at 8:19 PM, finished with 63 posts and 22 votes.
  • [X] svartalfheim, freyr variant
    [X] Plan Avernus Stands
    -[X][Plan]Middle Ground, Avernus
    -[X][Argument] Avenues is the most difficult planet in the Tryst to take from the ground and our Void defences are considerable. With the Warbasses sheer stupidity, it's likely he'll have his Orks fighting wildlife intentionally before ever getting near our cities. However, they will get to our cities eventually. The Emperor demands we exist for war, and so we shall fight this war. But do not expect us to hold on our own forever. Not even Cadia could hold out forever, and neither can we without assistance. But no matter the difficulties, we shall fight. Avernus shall stand.
    [X] Plan Thamuzz
    -[X][Plan] Svartalfheim, Freyr variant
    -[X][Argument] The heavily defended, underground cities of Svartalfheim reduce the effectiveness of the two main strengths of WAAAGH!!! Hedcrusha: gargants and orbital bombardment. Orks do not provoke the extreme responses from Avernus that Necrons and Chaos do, reducing one of Avernus's advantages as a battleground while subjecting Trust forces to that same threat.
    -[X] In all the below options, use maximum ambushes. Admiral Sarnow is the best at this, and when combined with Divination and the enemy's stupidity this option is better than it normally would be.
    -[X] Option 1: Void War, Vanaheim
    --[X] Use Vanaheim's superior defences along with the Trust's various fleets to defeat the enemy in the void. Will keep the war on the shorter end most likely, provided victory is attained. Ork fleet will be mainly commanded by the stupid warboss, allowing the Trust to maximize its advantage in command, and allows liberal use of diviners. Fleet casualties will likely be highest with this option.
    -[X] Option 2: Ground War, Svartalfheim
    --[X] Svartalfheim possesses a large number of cities with heavy fortifications, and the stupid Warboss could be tempted to split his forces inefficiently, though lesser warbands will likely be beter commanded. Enemy fleet will have to be dealt with gradually, with little damage being done due to weaker orbital defences. Ground casualties will be highest with this option.
    -[X] Option 3: Middle Ground, Avernus
    --[X] Decent orbital defenses coupled with strong ground defenses and militia splits the difference between the above options. Smaller number of cities than Svartalfheim, but more hives. Wildlife may be helpful, and could present opportunities to divert Ork forces into foolish moves. Planet may react if the Orks are perceived as a threat, though that can't be guaranteed nor should it be made the case intentionally. Fleet and ground casualties split.
    [x] Plan Svartalfhiem, Freyr variant
    -[X] Vanaheim would inflict to many casualties on our fleet, while Avernus would split the casualties some of the cities are currently expanding and wven Avernites can get war fatigued. Svartalfhiem has strong ground defenses and we can easily replace ground loses sooner and easier than fleet loses.
    [X] Option 2: Svartalfheim
    - [X] Freyr 's Addend Addendum
    [X] Plan Three
    [X] svartalfheim, freyr variant
    -[X][Argument] The heavily defended, underground cities of Svartalfheim reduce the effectiveness of the two main strengths of WAAAGH!!! Hedcrusha: gargants and orbital bombardment. Orks do not provoke the extreme responses from Avernus that Necrons and Chaos do, reducing one of Avernus's advantages as a battleground while subjecting Trust forces to that same threat.
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I want to vote Avernus but the argument is so ... urgh.
The thing is we've had support in the past, just look at the reinforcements that we were sent in the aftermath of the Pink Skies to help us stabilize.
On top of that most fortress worlds only make military however between the Juvenat production, being the seat of the Adeptus Mechanicus, and other more mundane industry Avernus is a stronger economy than some other fully fledged Trust worlds, not to mention the colonies, we match entire sub sectors like that!
At what point can that support that we are demanding be better spent elsewhere?
Mar Sara undoubtedly suffered far worse than us in the last war after all, we only suffered damage to a few cities which where fixed within decades whereas they had all out war across the surface of the planet.
Basically to sum it up: We haven't had support recently because we haven't needed it, when we have needed support we have had it.
 
Dark as Silver said:
I want to vote Avernus but the argument is so ... urgh.
The thing is we've had support in the past, just look at the reinforcements that we were sent in the aftermath of the Pink Skies to help us stabilize.
On top of that most fortress worlds only make military however between the Juvenat production, being the seat of the Adeptus Mechanicus, and other more mundane industry Avernus is a stronger economy than some other fully fledged Trust worlds, not to mention the colonies, we match entire sub sectors like that!
At what point can that support that we are demanding be better spent elsewhere?
Mar Sara undoubtedly suffered far worse than us in the last war after all, we only suffered damage to a few cities which where fixed within decades whereas they had all out war across the surface of the planet.
Basically to sum it up: We haven't had support recently because we haven't needed it, when we have needed support we have had it.
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so....are you against using avernus?

I'm afraid im not sure what your actually arguing here.....(?)

what things I see here:
1: we DO get support, just not when we don't need it. (agreed)
2:Avernus has a really powerful eco (agreed)
3:At what point can that support that we are demanding be bette spent elsewhere....(that is, your saying that we probly DON'T need support-as much as others do anyway....and I would agree with you there I think)

it sounds like you are arguing that we should go for avernus, but your opening line seems to imply that you don't want to.....but im not even entirely sure which/what argument that your so hesitent to get behind....

could you please elaborating what your trying to say here?
 
Aelfric, Granalf, and Surt like plan "Vanaheim".
Sigurd, Freyr, Varquez, and Scott like "Svartalfheim".
Mikealsson, Zaren, and Julius like "Avernus".

The thread leans towards "Svartalfheim", and Garp will follow our lead, for a total of 6 Councillors voting for the volunteer, Svartalfheim.

To be honest, I consider a longish war of attrition on Svartalfheim to be best for the Trust as a whole. Their cities are strong against bombardment, so we can spend a lot of time harassing. They are very well defended, fortifications are a must when dealing with the Orks. There is nothing too important in Svartalfheim space. The Orks are many, but basically recruits. The Ork warboss is so stupid as to be an asset for us. Given N Steps Ahead, Ridcully's intel, the incredibly stupid warboss, the almost perfectly defended cities, the time our Navies will have to harass the Orks, I feel confident in Svartalfheim's ability to whether this Waagh.

[X] svartalfheim, freyr variant
 
Tom Smith said:
so....are you against using avernus?

I'm afraid im not sure what your actually arguing here.....(?)

what things I see here:
1: we DO get support, just not when we don't need it. (agreed)
2:Avernus has a really powerful eco (agreed)
3:At what point can that support that we are demanding be bette spent elsewhere....(that is, your saying that we probly DON'T need support-as much as others do anyway....and I would agree with you there I think)

it sounds like you are arguing that we should go for avernus, but your opening line seems to imply that you don't want to.....but im not even entirely sure which/what argument that your so hesitent to get behind....

could you please elaborating what your trying to say here?
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I'm sorry, let me be clear.
I do want to vote for Avernus however Plan Avernus Stands is not based in any reality I'm familiar with. And so don't want to support something that seems to disregard facts and history in favour of nationalism and vague complaints that we aren't getting enought support without actually clarifying what we would consider sufficient.
If there where an alternate plan I'd vote for that however as it is I'd rather see us lose to Svartfelheim rather than insult everyone else present for no apparent reason with the implicit suggestion that we're the only one pulling our weight. Keep in mind after all the phrase in the trust is 'Dutiful as a Midgardian.'... Although I suppose that 'Arrogant as an Avernite' also applies.
 
[X] Plan Avernus Stands
[X] Plan Deathworld Avernus

Okay I've thought about this quite a bit, and decided its simply better to not get Svartlheim infested with orks when it doesn't have an infection yet. It's a major source of the Trust's productivity, and there's little reason to damage that.

The war fatigue penalty on Avernus only hits militia right now, and we rarely involve the militia in the fighting so it won't be much of an issue right now.

Beyond this war I think that we should make Avernus officially the Trust's designated target. Get extra funding to build its defenses in exchange for directing every attack we can at it. That makes it fairer for us, and more efficient for the Trust as a whole. Avernus' population is far better at withstanding wars than anyone else. But in exchange we need the resource concessions to pay for that.
 
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@Durin
You might have missed this omake [LINK]?

[X] Plan Avernus Stands

I am against a ground war on Svartfelheim because we can not bring enough troops down there. The cities just can not hold enough.
 
Can the people voting for Avernus Stands at least make a different vote that votes for Avernus but without that bad argument sub-vote?
 
I must agree with Andre here. If you're going to vote for Avernus, don't use jingoistic bull shit as your justification. Not unless you actually want to be an ignoramus.

(I have gotten use ambuscade, jingoistic, and ignoramus in proper sentences. I am blessed)
 
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