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The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up
- Thread starter Durin
- Start date
- Location
- Berkeley
Sunk cost is sunk, how much we 'paid' for it in the first place doesn't affect the cost/benefit ratio going forward. That said, I recall a good bit of discussion at the time about people being dissatisfied with the cost we ended up paying and what was offered.
Regardless, we need to look at this issue going forward. Durin said it was 'acceptable'. This is a long shot from it being a good thing to do. Dragon's Nest forcibly annexing the smaller uncorrupted human polities near them would be 'acceptable'—it would be a shitty thing to do, but hardly worth kicking over the apple cart over. 'Acceptable' just means that when all the factors are taken into account (the moral issue of the soul trade, direct political considerations, compensation offered, etc) there aren't any absolute dealbreakers and the balance of considerations isn't blatantly unfavorable (like giving away thirty billion Throne equivalents for one metal equivalent).
One issue that's a massive sticking point for me is the issue of specifically tailoring our actions to capture people for the soul trade. It's a fundamental departure from treating the runes as a nice bonus we get from effectively recycling a waste product, which I view as being extremely important to avoid edging into Dark Eldar territory.
- Location
- United states
Actually think we pretty much implemented the fire runes which are the only ones we actually have. We also got that order for warding that makes rune production more easy to implement. We also only bought the cheapest runes to implement because of the steep cost of the higher quality ones.
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
Actually no that isn't a problem.
I mean sure we've not fully implemented the fire runes, but researching them has netted us two powerful abilities and insight into a bunch of things on its own.
Not sure this is the best comparison...
No we have also got Banishment, but that effectively cost nothing.
Still fire hasn't yet been implemented to its fullest extent yet, which would be Helguard roll out.
Also again to remind everyone, regardless of how we decide to do this we're still going to make bank on souls due to the coming cult increase.
I'm fine with trying to capture some cultists if it comes to it, but lets not turn this into a rage fest.
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- Location
- Poland
- Pronouns
- He/Him
@Durin
1. By acceptable, that means there will be some backlash to our reputation, just not as much as previously?
Also, in order to give a choice whether or not to capture the cultists, let's make a separate plan from the previous one.
This one is '[] Thin their numbers', but here we'll be trying to get some cultists for siren trade.
[X] Hunt them down
-[X] Dis: Harass them- You will be able to cause major damage at a incredible exchange rate if you have your faster units hunt the fleeing enemy down, though if they regroup your harassers could suffer.
-[X] The Lonely Citadel: Harass them- You will be able to cause major damage at a incredible exchange rate if you have your faster units hunt the fleeing enemy down, though if they regroup your harassers could suffer.
-[X] Bombard it- If you have available ships bombard the shattered remains of the siege camp you will be able to inflict major damage over time, and prevent them shoring up their defences.
-[X] Void: Pursuit- Chase them to the edge of the system, losing some more of your lighter ships in exchange for destroying many of the enemy ships so that you can be sure that you will not encounter them in the future.
-[X] Capture enemy soldiers for trade with sirens. However, be cautious and don't endanger our men. Focus on capturing targets of opportunity and isolated groups.
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- Location
- United States of America, Michigan
[X] Hunt them down
Don't really get people's logic against capturing some abomination soldiers considering when we first got the siren trade list we joked that we wanted a chaos invasion to pay for them.
Don't really get people's logic against capturing some abomination soldiers considering when we first got the siren trade list we joked that we wanted a chaos invasion to pay for them.
- Location
- United states
[X] Hunt them down
It's about how we treat our men in regards to it. If we happen to capture some enemy soldiers by good fortune or if they're wounded or what have you, that's fine. It's going out of our way and endangering our men in the process that isn't acceptable to a lot of us. We don't make our men take that kind of risk with the regular cultists because it would be bad for morale, and we shouldn't do that here against armed enemy soldiers either.
- Location
- United states
I mean seems like it wouldn't be hard to just say have them capture them if it's possible to do so with little casualties like with isolated groups or groups that wouldn't be a theat. Not to mention the runes we could buy would be life savers down the line.
- Location
- Poland
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I could just add that we don't want to endanger our soldiers. Basically be cautious with capture.
Will get fewer meals, but considering the opposition, it's better than nothing.
Editing now.
That better, or still something to change?
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- Location
- Spain
[X] Hunt them down
- Location
- A Place Miserably Bereft of Cats
[X] Hunt them down
-[X] Dis: Harass them- You will be able to cause major damage at a incredible exchange rate if you have your faster units hunt the fleeing enemy down, though if they regroup your harassers could suffer.
-[X] The Lonely Citadel: Harass them- You will be able to cause major damage at a incredible exchange rate if you have your faster units hunt the fleeing enemy down, though if they regroup your harassers could suffer.
-[X] Bombard it- If you have available ships bombard the shattered remains of the siege camp you will be able to inflict major damage over time, and prevent them shoring up their defences.
-[X] Void: Pursuit- Chase them to the edge of the system, losing some more of your lighter ships in exchange for destroying many of the enemy ships so that you can be sure that you will not encounter them in the future.
-[X] Capture enemy soldiers for trade with sirens. However, be cautious and don't endanger our men. Focus on capturing targets of opportunity and isolated groups.
-[X] Dis: Harass them- You will be able to cause major damage at a incredible exchange rate if you have your faster units hunt the fleeing enemy down, though if they regroup your harassers could suffer.
-[X] The Lonely Citadel: Harass them- You will be able to cause major damage at a incredible exchange rate if you have your faster units hunt the fleeing enemy down, though if they regroup your harassers could suffer.
-[X] Bombard it- If you have available ships bombard the shattered remains of the siege camp you will be able to inflict major damage over time, and prevent them shoring up their defences.
-[X] Void: Pursuit- Chase them to the edge of the system, losing some more of your lighter ships in exchange for destroying many of the enemy ships so that you can be sure that you will not encounter them in the future.
-[X] Capture enemy soldiers for trade with sirens. However, be cautious and don't endanger our men. Focus on capturing targets of opportunity and isolated groups.
Dynamesmouse
Bzzzzzz
[X] Thin their numbers
Guys, please don't hunt them down so that we can sell their souls. Soon, we're going to attack their domain, lay waste to their cities and burn down their monuments to the False Emperor. We don't want to go down this path. The Runes were never worth the trouble of selling souls to xenos.
Guys, please don't hunt them down so that we can sell their souls. Soon, we're going to attack their domain, lay waste to their cities and burn down their monuments to the False Emperor. We don't want to go down this path. The Runes were never worth the trouble of selling souls to xenos.
- Location
- To the left. No, not there, the other left.
[X] Hunt them down
Dynamesmouse
Bzzzzzz
Inserted tally
- Location
- Poland
- Pronouns
- He/Him
So I'd like to make a point for catching those heretics.
1)Their fate is sealed, and it's not pretty. Their souls are warped beyond recovery. Killing them is a mercy, and destroying their souls is only doing a more thorough job. Either way they'll face suffering- we'll just offer them a short-term kind of pain, instead of an eternal one.
2)The souls we won't be tossing into Siren's maws are going to be nommed by demons or otherwise taken by chaos. While the numbers we'll take won't really make a significant difference in Abomination's power, it will be a good difference none the less.
3)While there will be further diplomatic costs, we already have paid the initial fees by getting Trust's permission to do so. Any further sacrifices are... more 'normal', even if still frowned upon.
4)There's no slippery slope here. Even if there were further unethical sacrifices to be made, they'll have to be massively beneficial in order to stand a chance against the current player consensus. And... frankly, unless we change our allegiance to chaos, I don't see any possible examples of that.
1)Their fate is sealed, and it's not pretty. Their souls are warped beyond recovery. Killing them is a mercy, and destroying their souls is only doing a more thorough job. Either way they'll face suffering- we'll just offer them a short-term kind of pain, instead of an eternal one.
2)The souls we won't be tossing into Siren's maws are going to be nommed by demons or otherwise taken by chaos. While the numbers we'll take won't really make a significant difference in Abomination's power, it will be a good difference none the less.
3)While there will be further diplomatic costs, we already have paid the initial fees by getting Trust's permission to do so. Any further sacrifices are... more 'normal', even if still frowned upon.
4)There's no slippery slope here. Even if there were further unethical sacrifices to be made, they'll have to be massively beneficial in order to stand a chance against the current player consensus. And... frankly, unless we change our allegiance to chaos, I don't see any possible examples of that.
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
I believe part of the concern has something to do with a warning of Durin's that he was very really considering this as something that could send us down to chaos (not too surprising radical inquisitors have gone down for less)
I believe he said he didn't feel he could make it work and while I can't speak for anyone else it spooked me.
As it stands I'm considering just retracting my vote as I'm content with either option.
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- Location
- USA NYC
[X] Hunt them down
Dynamesmouse
Bzzzzzz
The main problem is that we are treating human souls as someone else's delicacies, and we are trading them away for secret lore. I imagine that had we asked the High Council for permission to employ the Sirens as executioners, and then used soft diplomacy over hard bargaining to ask for a Rune to keep this arrangement going, it would have only been a diplomacy hit instead of a decades long malus and a negative trait.
You have to keep in mind that our soldiers are soldiers. They are not trained in making arrests or preforming capture operations. They guard things and they kill other things. They do not have capture equipment, they do not really have holding cells. Moreover, capturing someone is difficult work, triply so when they know they are being chased.
Another thing to keep in mind is: What would the Emperor think?