The maverick was put into service around 3 months after the *first flight* of the A-10, let alone the service date.

The A-10 was designed to, uh, specifications, but that there were no air-launched guided antitank missiles was not one of them.
Eh. I was making a sarcastic and uncharitable characterization of the A-10 because it's a flying gun that was developed right as flying guns stopped being the most reliable and accurate way for planes to attack tanks.

It would be more accurate to say "the A-10's underlying design paradigm was invalidated by the advent of reliable and effective air-launched guided antitank weapons."
 
Eh. I was making a sarcastic and uncharitable characterization of the A-10 because it's a flying gun that was developed right as flying guns stopped being the most reliable and accurate way for planes to attack tanks.

It would be more accurate to say "the A-10's underlying design paradigm was invalidated by the advent of reliable and effective air-launched guided antitank weapons."


I mean I agree, otoh, the A-10 also has a large winspan to carry a lot of ordnance, and while low level flight is going to get you killed by SAMs (manpad or otherwise), even if the gun is less useful than intended, it more than makes up for that with its bombload and loitertime, assuming it doeesn't eat a sam and dies, of course.

Then again, wasn't it designed to be semi dispossable? slow down the russian armor at fulda gap, and/or die trying (to russian SPAAS), so...
 
I mean I agree, otoh, the A-10 also has a large winspan to carry a lot of ordnance, and while low level flight is going to get you killed by SAMs (manpad or otherwise), even if the gun is less useful than intended, it more than makes up for that with its bombload and loitertime, assuming it doeesn't eat a sam and dies, of course.

Then again, wasn't it designed to be semi dispossable? slow down the russian armor at fulda gap, and/or die trying (to russian SPAAS), so...
I don't know about disposability, but I do know that the A-10 was purposely designed to be able to fly without much trouble and land while missing half its engines, tails, stabilisers, control surfaces and wings. It has hydraulics with three layers of redundancy, and mechanical controls as well just in case all of them get disabled regardless. The landing gears are designed in such a way as to allow the pilot to engage them just by pitching the craft in the right way and letting gravity do the rest.

All these measures, in addition to surrounding the pilot in a 'bathtub' of titanium armour plating and a canopy that is impervious to small arms, don't really scream 'disposable' to me. Seems more like the designers expected it to get shot a whole lot, and made it so the plane can power through and complete their mission regardless, or else force the enemy to spend an inordinate amount of munitions to shoot it down.
 
I mean I agree, otoh, the A-10 also has a large winspan to carry a lot of ordnance, and while low level flight is going to get you killed by SAMs (manpad or otherwise), even if the gun is less useful than intended, it more than makes up for that with its bombload and loitertime, assuming it doeesn't eat a sam and dies, of course.

Then again, wasn't it designed to be semi dispossable? slow down the russian armor at fulda gap, and/or die trying (to russian SPAAS), so...

Not semi disposable, but the planning by the USAF was that the entire Airforce would be destroyed within a week or so if WW3 erupts in the 70s. It's why Reforger was so important, because the follow up troops would be what make the defence of Europe possible. Even so, it's only with Airland Battle that NATO actually had a strategy that might successfully defend Europe.


The A-10s were entirely expected to be destroyed after a few sorties. Bean counters could count how many AAA SPG and SAMS were deployed.

Pre 80, the whole scenario was always NATO inflicts enough casualties that Soviets slowed, nukes get threatened to kill each other so a 'ceasefire' is announced. Soviets rearm and go for second push, newly deployed US forces try to hold.

At this point, tac nukes were going to be used by either side to slow/remove tactical obstructions and well, with field forces out of combat, the strategic nukes come out.

Or as the pithy saying goes, if one flies, they all fly. Once tactical nukes were used , strategic nukes were always going to be used. Reagan began exploring in serious limited nuclear warfare but well, the Cold War ended before both sides could give more than test scenarios .


TLDR: WW3 rapidly degrades to everyone fighting with sticks and stones.
 
I don't know about disposability, but I do know that the A-10 was purposely designed to be able to fly without much trouble and land while missing half its engines, tails, stabilisers, control surfaces and wings. It has hydraulics with three layers of redundancy, and mechanical controls as well just in case all of them get disabled regardless. The landing gears are designed in such a way as to allow the pilot to engage them just by pitching the craft in the right way and letting gravity do the rest.

All these measures, in addition to surrounding the pilot in a 'bathtub' of titanium armour plating and a canopy that is impervious to small arms, don't really scream 'disposable' to me. Seems more like the designers expected it to get shot a whole lot, and made it so the plane can power through and complete their mission regardless, or else force the enemy to spend an inordinate amount of munitions to shoot it down.

They were definitely designed not to break the bank, though. A plane can absolutely be both cheap enough for expected losses to be acceptable while still being durable.

The predicted loss rate of A-10s in the event of Fulda Gap filling with tanks was terrifyingly high. The whole fleet wasn't expected to last more than weeks, which under most definitions would qualify as being expended. But what that survivability gets you is more expected lifetime per aircraft, and more valuable pilots able to make it home even if their planes are still write-offs.
 
They were definitely designed not to break the bank, though. A plane can absolutely be both cheap enough for expected losses to be acceptable while still being durable.

The predicted loss rate of A-10s in the event of Fulda Gap filling with tanks was terrifyingly high. The whole fleet wasn't expected to last more than weeks, which under most definitions would qualify as being expended. But what that survivability gets you is more expected lifetime per aircraft, and more valuable pilots able to make it home even if their planes are still write-offs.
The durability of the A-10 was due to the afore mentioned Skyraider experiences.

Essentially, Vietnam showed that it didn't take much to create a defensive screen. CAS aircraft routinely couldn't fulfill their missions due to AA fire. The hilarious being the machine guns and strafe upward method. Effective against helicopters,a potential threat to aircraft because so many MGs from infantry could hit you.

The 50s and 60s era layered air defence was essentially use Long range radars, which were less accurate to give you warning of an approach. SA-2 would then be fired. They have low probability of hit at long range, but they force you to break formation/waste fuel. Mid range would be more SAMs, this time intended to kill you. The effective way then to counter this was to go low, where the missiles had problem following you. This also led to long range/mid range radars having problems detecting you.... But that's where close range weapons come in. Without the advent of terrain following radar and etc, pilots were forced to go low and slow. (B52 avoided this problem because nukes is an AOE weapon. )


At such heights, any damage was fatal, a lesson learnt in Vietnam with the Skyraiders and later A4 Skyhawk. The USAF developed two means to counteract this. One was Wild Weasel missions where A6 Intruders, errr I think F4 Phantoms????? Were trained to detect or lure these sites to fire on them and then destroy them.

The other was to make the A-10 more survivable so they could survive the damage and HIT the target before limping home.


Hence the various tricks. They essentially went pilots and engines were what downed the aircraft before they could kill the enemy, so, let's armor these areas so they could kill them before limping home.


Technology such as the MANpad meant these became increasingly obsolete as time went by. Surviving a few bullet holes from a 7.62 or 50 cal machine gun is one thing, surviving an autocannon hit with the ZSU or a SAM is another.



Yeah. Infantry still learn some of these tactics because they remain semi effective against helicopters. But the era of combining MMG and HMG into AA zones don't work against jets no more.
 
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Yeah. Infantry still learn some of these tactics because they remain semi effective against helicopters. But the era of combing MMG and HMG into AA zones don't work against jets no more.
True, though that's because the jets tend to use standoff weapons; they're no longer overflying their targets with gravity bombs and strafing runs if they expect to face enemy fire on the way out.

Ironically, given the dumbass way the Vicks used their planes before the Erie War, A-10s probably would have been a good choice for them, if only because they'd be relatively good at flying the only mission profile the Vicks were prepared to accept as valid (strafing runs).
 
True, though that's because the jets tend to use standoff weapons; they're no longer overflying their targets with gravity bombs and strafing runs if they expect to face enemy fire on the way out.

Ironically, given the dumbass way the Vicks used their planes before the Erie War, A-10s probably would have been a good choice for them, if only because they'd be relatively good at flying the only mission profile the Vicks were prepared to accept as valid (strafing runs).
Radar and sensors like the FLIRN also make it just that much easier for pilots to not be vulnerable when going low. Also, it just much more better to use radar guided guns than mark 1 eyeballs.

Also, the use of dive bombing or lobbing tactics.

It's...not impossible for VAF to learn some of these tactics, especially since their F16V , downgraded as it is due to California industrial and their ideology is still more advanced than 60s era tech.


I forgot though. I know we had a design F16V on discord..... Does the Vic f16 have an airborne radar? Is it a Doppler or an AESA?
 
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It may well be an AESA just because that's what the NCR has production line tooling for circa 2050 or so when the Vicks start importing the things.

Also because as I recall, AESAs are even more heavily reliant on software to do their jobs, and therefore even easier for the NCR to sabotage quietly. :D
 
It may well be an AESA just because that's what the NCR has production line tooling for circa 2050 or so when the Vicks start importing the things.

Also because as I recall, AESAs are even more heavily reliant on software to do their jobs, and therefore even easier for the NCR to sabotage quietly. :D
Hmmm ....


Aubrey ability to maintain the F22 may suggest they have the computer expertise to allow us to cobble a data fusion network for our F16 and F22. Although this also depends on timeline , since it's possible the data fusion F22 doesn't exist here.

www.thedrive.com

F-22 And F-35 Datalinks Finally Talk Freely With Each Other Thanks To A U-2 Flying Translator

Beyond linking up F-22s and F-35s, the U-2 and its gateway payload also connected naval and ground assets, and more.

Not an engineer though so .....

But if we get this ...Oooh boy, NCR is going to be the only American air power that can threaten us. Well, until everyone get toys from Russia/EU .
 
She's probably up in the Arctic League hiding out, especially if she was still on this side of the Atlantic when The Boy killed daddy
 
So I have to ask, what is the state of the better off nation's military hardware? Are our brand new F-22s considered as modern as the F-1 Phantom is today? Is Russia rolling out ETC or railgun equipped tanks with carbon nanotube armor that makes our few Abrams as use as early Cold War suplus? I know the Tzar has holograms but that doesn't tell me a whole lot about what we can expect the major players to export.
 
So I have to ask, what is the state of the better off nation's military hardware? Are our brand new F-22s considered as modern as the F-1 Phantom is today? Is Russia rolling out ETC or railgun equipped tanks with carbon nanotube armor that makes our few Abrams as use as early Cold War suplus? I know the Tzar has holograms but that doesn't tell me a whole lot about what we can expect the major players to export.
The general consensus is a bit vague, but what it comes down to is that while the Collapse didn't stop technological advancement, tech is a lot less far beyond 2020 than we might expect. Figure on most military hardware actually deployed being stuff we might plausibly see fielded by 2050 in real life.
 
Good then the guns and armor of our pre-Collapse tanks are still capable even if the sensors and electronics are more questionable. Our pilots will suffer from the lack of advanced munitions but at least they will be fighting Russian dumbed down export F-35 equivalents. At least as long as China and Europe keep Russia from feeling safe enough to dedicate long distance strike forces.
 
I wouldn't be surprised if Russian export fighters, at least to the kind of powers we're likely to fight, are still some kind of 4.5th-generation jet fighter- a distant evolution of the Su-35 lineage, perhaps.

The trick is that stealth aircraft are potentially very destabilizing and pose at least some threat to even a very good air defense. There are reasons to not want the technology to proliferate. The US exports F-35s to a number of nations (or plans to), but the US doesn't rely so heavily on keeping potential allies weak, and desires to uphold a reputation for having the best kit.

Also, stealth aircraft tend to be much more expensive to make and much more high-maintenance.
 
SO I've got a really odd question? what do you think the status of Victoria's Liquid assets is?

I'm of the opinion that they're going to be running out no matter who wins.
 
SO I've got a really odd question? what do you think the status of Victoria's Liquid assets is?

I'm of the opinion that they're going to be running out no matter who wins.
Not really sure, but I also think it's not a relevant indicator for how stable the Victorian economy is. Thanks to the glorious insight of Kraft, Victoria did away with such economic woes as "competitive industry", "decent wages enabling some consumer spending" and "food surpluses created by mechanised labor". Their economy lives from a marginal amount of income via resorts and the occasional sweatshop, but mostly relies on Russian help to fund them. The Victorian state lives from Russian table scraps, so the question is "How much money is the new Tsar willing to pay them?", since the liquid assets will be marginal anyway.
 
The Victorian state lives from Russian table scraps, so the question is "How much money is the new Tsar willing to pay them?", since the liquid assets will be marginal anyway.
Well, I'm assuming they are running out of table scraps, as while Ole Alex is dead and said the deal with it yourself way.

I'm going to say they are going to be running out of their current table scrap because of mismanagement and that the current situation in Russia's Borderlands requires a bit more attention.

The New Tsar in my mind needs to get his house in order before he can do any adventures economically or otherwise...and looking at whats going on with the homefront first, I'm assuming that will take a while.
 
Well, I'm assuming they are running out of table scraps, as while Ole Alex is dead and said the deal with it yourself way.

I'm going to say they are going to be running out of their current table scrap because of mismanagement and that the current situation in Russia's Borderlands requires a bit more attention.

The New Tsar in my mind needs to get his house in order before he can do any adventures economically or otherwise...and looking at whats going on with the homefront first, I'm assuming that will take a while.
I think the argument could be made that the destabilisation will lead to financial woes and thus lower Russian economic support. On the other hand, the new Tsar announced his willingness for greater support for Victoria, which might mean more debts taken to keep the hegemony stable. But the hawkishness means more intervention (since you replace less expensive soft power with more military expenses), more money for the military complex and more domestic discontent with endless wars instead of better pensions. We know very little about the Russian economy or internal politics, but if the new regime lacks people with economic expertise, they might cripple their economy by pumping vast amounts of money into interventions without getting most of it back. My theory is that Nicky is controlled by military hardliners, so I think economic troubles are likely for Russia.
 
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My theory is that Nicky is controlled by military hardliners, so I think economic troubles are likely for Russia.
I belive that as well, but they are at least smart enough to make sure the house is in order before going on a Wild Ride as it were.

Hell in the Omake I'm writing I'm having the Table Scape not be enough because the Tsar is busy securing his power over Russia.

That sort of thing takes time, and time is not on the side of Victoria's assets.
 
I belive that as well, but they are at least smart enough to make sure the house is in order before going on a Wild Ride as it were.

Hell in the Omake I'm writing I'm having the Table Scape not be enough because the Tsar is busy securing his power over Russia.

That sort of thing takes time, and time is not on the side of Victoria's assets.
Yeah, Victorian reserves are relevant right now due to the lack of Russian support. Good point, haven't thought of that.

We know the Victorian reserves are large enough to enable them to import food with exorbitantly high prices from us. Large enough to give us another action point, so the income enables us to spend somewhere in the region of 20% more. We don't really know much of our own economic situation and how much a 20% increase in spending actually is. Furthermore, we were until recently cut off from any proper international trade, which makes comparing economies even harder. And Victoria is also a police state in the midst of civil war, which means information is nearly impossible to come by. So the best answer answer regarding Victorian reserves we could give is "Large enough to pay us around 1/5 of our income for food imports for half a year, potentially up to a year longer".
 
Not really sure, but I also think it's not a relevant indicator for how stable the Victorian economy is. Thanks to the glorious insight of Kraft, Victoria did away with such economic woes as "competitive industry", "decent wages enabling some consumer spending" and "food surpluses created by mechanised labor". Their economy lives from a marginal amount of income via resorts and the occasional sweatshop, but mostly relies on Russian help to fund them. The Victorian state lives from Russian table scraps, so the question is "How much money is the new Tsar willing to pay them?", since the liquid assets will be marginal anyway.
To be fair, when it comes to liquid assets they may actually be relatively well off. They've got a lot of fuckwits with bad ideas about economics (like belief in the gold standard, i suspect). And they've been systematically looting much of the United States for a long time.

I wouldn't be surprised if some of the Vick army divisions have operations on the side, too, like, I dunno, conflict diamond mines in Arkansas or something.* It's entirely possible that they have surprisingly large accumulations of precious metal and foreign currency just sitting in vaults. At least, surprising compared to the size of their economy as a whole.

*( @PoptartProdigy , or any omake-teers, if you want to use that idea feel free, I may or may not ever have the energy to write it up but I'd love to see something done with it!)
 
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