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Victoria Falls: A Post-Collapse American Nation Quest [Down With Victoria!]

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Adhoc vote count started by BoredStudent1414 on Mar 9, 2022 at 9:20 PM, finished with 164 posts and 62 votes.
  • [X] Plan: Buli-Buli Fall '76 v2
    -[X][DEVILS] Break up the Devil Brigade to serve as a training cadre for both enlisted personnel and officer candidates.
    -[X] Defense (1 AP)
    --[X] Military Training Reform [SYP]: DC: 20 15. Successes Required: 2 (1 of 2 complete). AP Limit: 2. Effect: Raise army base training level to 2/5 (Trained) from 1/5 (Green), level out air force air-to-air training level to 2/5 (Trained) to match its ground attack level. New forces deploy at this level.
    ---[X] 1 Defense AP
    -[X] State (1 AP + 3 Free AP)
    --[X] Expand the Department: DC: 30. Successes Required: 2. AP Limit: 2. Effect: Gain 1 additional Department of State AP per turn.
    ---[X] 1 State AP + 1 Free AP
    --[X] Source Foreign Arms [SYP]: DC: Dependent on sub-votes. Successes Required: 2. AP Limit: 2. Effect: Determine who is willing to sell you weapons and what they're intending to charge for them.
    ---[X] 2 Free AP
    -[X] Domestic Affairs (1 AP + 1 Free AP)
    --[X] Refugee Management: DC: 25. Successes Needed: 1. AP Limit: 2. Effect: Establish a government office responsible for managing and directing the flow of refugees in order to minimize friction with existing populations and ensure refugees' smooth resettlement. Allows you to engage competently with what promises to be an ongoing social issue for your administration.
    ---[X] 1 Domestic Affairs AP
    --[X] State Integration Office: DC: 20. Successes Needed: 1. AP Limit: 2. Effect: Using your successful integrations of Toledo and Detroit as models, establish a small office of the Department responsible for overseeing the integration of new member states to the CFC and smoothing out potential problems.
    ---[X] 1 Free AP
    -[X] Development (3 AP + 2 Free AP)
    --[X] Green Energy [SYP]: DC: auto-pass from climate deal. Successes Needed: 2(/3) (1 of 2(/3) complete). AP Limit: 3. Effect: Fully revamp and rationalize your power grid with renewable energy sources. 2 successes replaces and rationalizes the power grid. 3 sees you fudge the numbers and get an expansion to the power grid out of it. The option will remain for one turn past the 2nd success, if there is not a 3rd in the same turn.
    ---[X] 2 Development AP
    --[X] Infrastructure Projects [SYP]: DC: Auto-pass due to SYP bonus and Libraries reduction; a critical mass of resources and investment means that this action is now nearly trivial, requiring merely focused attention rather than a complex effort. Successes Required: 2. AP Limit: 3. Effect: Acquire the aid of Detroiter civil engineers in assessing the state of the Commonwealth's infrastructure and what needs to be done as you move forward. Unlocks infrastructure initiatives.
    ---[X] 1 Development AP + 1 Free AP
    --[X] Industrial Assessments [SYP]: DC: 10. Successes Required: 2. AP Limit: 3. Effect: Assess your current suppliers of industrial materiel and military hardware to figure out who can be reliably expanded and who needs to be supplemented by new concerns.
    -[X] Security (1 AP + 2 Free AP)
    --[X] Long Tail: DC: 30. Successes Required: 1. AP Limit: 3. Effect: Improve your intelligences services' efficiency by vetting and hiring additional analysts and support staff to enable your field agents to better do their jobs.
    ---[X] 1 Security AP
    --[X] Down the Mighty Miss [SYP]: DC: 30. Successes Required: 1. AP Limit: 2. Effect: Deepen your network along the Mississippi River, gaining access to better information.
    --[X] Victorian Intelligence: DC: 30. Successes Required: 1. AP Limit: 2. Effect: Authorize additional support for Foreign Intelligence Office operations in Nova Scotia to establish new agents, before the Crusaders are pushed out and the Inquisitors can reestablish direct control.
    -[X] Technological Recovery (1 AP + 1 Free AP)
    --[X] Department of Education: DC: 30. Successes Needed: 2. AP Limit: 3. Effect: Found the Department of Education, which will be responsible for establishing and standardizing public schools within the Commonwealth.
    ---[X] 1 Technological Recovery AP + 1 Free AP
    [X] [Devils] Break up the Devil Brigade to serve as a training cadre for both enlisted personnel and officer candidates.
    [X] Plan Arms and Departments, Talks and Training
    -[X] Retain the Devil Brigade
    -[X] Military Training Reform (1 Def)
    -[X] Officer Academies (2 Free)
    -[X] Expand the Department (1 State, 1 Free)
    -[X] Source Foreign Arms (1 Free)
    -[X] Refugee Management (1 DA)
    -[X] Coalition Talks (1 Free)
    -[X] Green Energy (2 Dev)
    -[X] Industrial Assessments (1 Dev, 1 Free)
    -[X] Down the Mighty Miss (1 Sec)
    -[X] Victorian Intelligence (1 Free)
    -[X] Department of Education (1 Tech, 1 Free)
    -[X] Retraining Campaigns (1 Free)
    [x][DEVILS] Retain the Devil Brigade as an expeditionary warfare unit forming the basis of the CFC's special operations forces contingent.
    [X] Plan: Buli-Buli Fall '76 v1
    -[X][DEVILS] Break up the Devil Brigade to serve as a training cadre for both enlisted personnel and officer candidates.
    -[X] Defense (1 AP)
    --[X] Military Training Reform [SYP]: DC: 20 15. Successes Required: 2 (1 of 2 complete). AP Limit: 2. Effect: Raise army base training level to 2/5 (Trained) from 1/5 (Green), level out air force air-to-air training level to 2/5 (Trained) to match its ground attack level. New forces deploy at this level.
    ---[X] 1 Defense AP
    -[X] State (1 AP + 3 Free AP)
    --[X] Expand the Department: DC: 30. Successes Required: 2. AP Limit: 2. Effect: Gain 1 additional Department of State AP per turn.
    ---[X] 1 State AP + 1 Free AP
    --[X] Expatriate Outreach [SYP]: DC: 15. Successes Required: 1. AP Limit: 2. Effect: Exploit your populace's restored ties to the American Diaspora and establish contacts who can put you in touch with people at the intersection of talent and patriotism. To an extent, will require either competing or cooperating with FCNY given how tightly the Diaspora roots in them. Likely will escalate to the attention of the Revivalist Council, but needs to be done.
    ---[X] 1 Free AP
    --[X] Establish Council Representation: DC: 35. Successes Needed: 1. AP Limit: 2. Effect: Have a proper team of diplomatic and espionage specialists on hand at the Council who can enable you to act with some measure of capability in the continental diplomatic scene.
    -[X] Domestic Affairs (1 AP + 1 Free AP)
    --[X] Refugee Management: DC: 25. Successes Needed: 1. AP Limit: 2. Effect: Establish a government office responsible for managing and directing the flow of refugees in order to minimize friction with existing populations and ensure refugees' smooth resettlement. Allows you to engage competently with what promises to be an ongoing social issue for your administration.
    ---[X] 1 Domestic Affairs AP
    --[X] State Integration Office: DC: 20. Successes Needed: 1. AP Limit: 2. Effect: Using your successful integrations of Toledo and Detroit as models, establish a small office of the Department responsible for overseeing the integration of new member states to the CFC and smoothing out potential problems.
    -[X] Development (3 AP)
    --[X] Green Energy [SYP]: DC: auto-pass from climate deal. Successes Needed: 2(/3) (1 of 2(/3) complete). AP Limit: 3. Effect: Fully revamp and rationalize your power grid with renewable energy sources. 2 successes replaces and rationalizes the power grid. 3 sees you fudge the numbers and get an expansion to the power grid out of it. The option will remain for one turn past the 2nd success, if there is not a 3rd in the same turn.
    ---[X] 2 Development AP
    --[X] United Post Office Contributions: DC: No roll. Successes Required: 1. AP Limit: 1. Effect: Commit direct funding to the United Post Office project in excess of your obligations to cooperate with Council requirements.
    ---[X] 1 Development AP
    -[X] Security (1 AP + 2 Free AP)
    --[X] Long Tail: DC: 30. Successes Required: 1. AP Limit: 3. Effect: Improve your intelligences services' efficiency by vetting and hiring additional analysts and support staff to enable your field agents to better do their jobs.
    ---[X] 1 Security AP
    --[X] Down the Mighty Miss [SYP]: DC: 30. Successes Required: 1. AP Limit: 2. Effect: Deepen your network along the Mississippi River, gaining access to better information.
    --[X] Victorian Intelligence: DC: 30. Successes Required: 1. AP Limit: 2. Effect: Authorize additional support for Foreign Intelligence Office operations in Nova Scotia to establish new agents, before the Crusaders are pushed out and the Inquisitors can reestablish direct control.
    ---[X] 1 Technological Recovery AP + 1 Free AP
    --[X] Retraining Campaigns [SYP]: DC: 40. Successes Needed: 2. AP Limit: 3. Effect: Establish a body of workers who can be employed in your vital job industries. Best to time it properly so you have neither a glut of spare workers, nor businesses standing empty...but with few local experts to oversee the training efforts, that timing will be a challenge.
    ---[X] 2 Free AP
    -[X] Technological Recovery (1 AP + 3 Free AP)
    --[X] Department of Education: DC: 30. Successes Needed: 2. AP Limit: 3. Effect: Found the Department of Education, which will be responsible for establishing and standardizing public schools within the Commonwealth.
    [X]Plan Foundations
    -[X][Defense] Military Training Reform [SYP]: DC20. Required: 2 (1 of 2 complete). (1x Defense AP)
    -[X][Defense] Standing Core [SYP]: DC30. Required: 1. (1x Free AP)
    -[X][State] Expand the Department: DC30. Required: 2. (1x State AP + 1x Free AP)
    -[X][State] Expatriate Outreach [SYP]: DC15. Required: 1. (1x Free AP)
    -[X][State] Establish Council Representation: DC35. Needed: 1. (2x Free AP)
    -[X][State] To St. Louis, And Beyond [SYP]: DC15. Needed: 3. (2x Free AP)
    -[X][Domestic Affairs ] Refugee Management: DC25. Needed: 1. (1x Domestic AP)
    -[X][Domestic Affairs] Coalition Talks: DC35. Needed: 1. (1x Free AP)
    -[X][Development] Green Energy [SYP]: DC: auto-pass. Needed: 2(/3) (1 of 2(/3) complete). (2x Dev AP)
    -[X][Development] Infrastructure Projects [SYP]: DC: Auto-pass. Required: 2. (1x Dev AP)
    -[X][Security] Long Tail: DC30. Required: 1. (1x Security AP)
    -[X][Security] Victorian Intelligence: DC30. Required: 1. (1x Free AP)
    -[X][Tech Recovery] Retraining Campaigns [SYP]: DC40. Needed: 2. (1x Recovery AP)
    [X] Plan building a fire department
    -[X] Military Training Reform [1 Free AP]
    -[X] Forging the Sword [SYP]:
    -[X] Officer Academies [SYP]: x2
    -[X] Expand the Department: x2
    -[X] Establish Council Representation:
    -[X] Refugee Management:
    -[X] Renovate the Bureau of Taxation:
    -[X] Coalition Talks:
    -[X] Green Energy [SYP]: x2
    -[X] Infrastructure Projects [SYP]: x2
    -[X] United Post Office Contributions:
    -[X] Long Tail:
    -[X] Retraining Campaigns [DoTR AP]
    [X][DEVILS]Retain the Devil Brigade
    [X]Plan Better Tools To Make Tools
    -[X] Officer Academies 2/2 AP (0/2 successes, 56% chance to complete)
    -[X] Military Training Reform 1/2 AP (1/2 successes, 80% chance to complete)
    -[X] Expand the Department 2/2 AP (0/2 successes, 49% chance to complete)
    -[X] Source Foreign Arms 1/2 AP (0/2 successes, ?% of 1/2)
    -[X] Refugee Management 1/2 AP (0/1 successes, 75% chance to complete)
    -[X] Green Energy 2/3 AP (1/3 successes, auto-pass)
    -[X] Infrastructure Projects 2/3 AP (0/2 successes, auto-pass)
    -[X] Industrial Assessment 2/3 AP (0/2 Successes, 81% chance to complete)
    -[X] Victorian Intelligence 1/2 AP (0/1 successes, 70% chance to complete)
    -[X] Down the Mighty Miss 1/2 AP (0/1 successes, 70% chance to complete)
    -[X] Department of Education 2/3 AP (0/2 successes, 49% chance to complete)
    -[X] Plan Arms and Departments, Talks and Training
    [X] Plan Marching Down The River
    -[X] Standing Core [DoDef AP, 1 SYP AP]
    -[X] Expand the Department [DoSta AP, 1 Free AP]
    -[X] To Saint Louis and Beyond [1 Free AP, 2 SYP AP]
    -[X] State Integration Office [DoDA AP]
    -[X] Infrastructure Projects [2 DoDev AP]
    -[X] Down the Mighty Miss [DoSec AP]
    -[X] Military Training Reform [1 Free AP]
    -[X] Officer Academies [1 Free AP]
    -[X] Expatriate Outreach [1 Free AP]
    -[X] Green Energy [DoDev AP, 1 Free AP]
    -[X] Retraining Campaigns [DoTR AP]
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Here's the Vote tally man.
 
[X] Plan: Buli-Buli Fall '76 v2
-[X][DEVILS] Break up the Devil Brigade to serve as a training cadre for both enlisted personnel and officer candidates.
-[X] Defense (1 AP)
--[X] Military Training Reform [SYP]: DC: 20 15. Successes Required: 2 (1 of 2 complete). AP Limit: 2. Effect: Raise army base training level to 2/5 (Trained) from 1/5 (Green), level out air force air-to-air training level to 2/5 (Trained) to match its ground attack level. New forces deploy at this level.
---[X] 1 Defense AP
-[X] State (1 AP + 3 Free AP)
--[X] Expand the Department: DC: 30. Successes Required: 2. AP Limit: 2. Effect: Gain 1 additional Department of State AP per turn.
---[X] 1 State AP + 1 Free AP
--[X] Source Foreign Arms [SYP]: DC: Dependent on sub-votes. Successes Required: 2. AP Limit: 2. Effect: Determine who is willing to sell you weapons and what they're intending to charge for them.
---[X] 2 Free AP
-[X] Domestic Affairs (1 AP + 1 Free AP)
--[X] Refugee Management: DC: 25. Successes Needed: 1. AP Limit: 2. Effect: Establish a government office responsible for managing and directing the flow of refugees in order to minimize friction with existing populations and ensure refugees' smooth resettlement. Allows you to engage competently with what promises to be an ongoing social issue for your administration.
---[X] 1 Domestic Affairs AP
--[X] State Integration Office: DC: 20. Successes Needed: 1. AP Limit: 2. Effect: Using your successful integrations of Toledo and Detroit as models, establish a small office of the Department responsible for overseeing the integration of new member states to the CFC and smoothing out potential problems.
---[X] 1 Free AP
-[X] Development (3 AP + 2 Free AP)
--[X] Green Energy [SYP]: DC: auto-pass from climate deal. Successes Needed: 2(/3) (1 of 2(/3) complete). AP Limit: 3. Effect: Fully revamp and rationalize your power grid with renewable energy sources. 2 successes replaces and rationalizes the power grid. 3 sees you fudge the numbers and get an expansion to the power grid out of it. The option will remain for one turn past the 2nd success, if there is not a 3rd in the same turn.
---[X] 2 Development AP
--[X] Infrastructure Projects [SYP]: DC: Auto-pass due to SYP bonus and Libraries reduction; a critical mass of resources and investment means that this action is now nearly trivial, requiring merely focused attention rather than a complex effort. Successes Required: 2. AP Limit: 3. Effect: Acquire the aid of Detroiter civil engineers in assessing the state of the Commonwealth's infrastructure and what needs to be done as you move forward. Unlocks infrastructure initiatives.
---[X] 1 Development AP + 1 Free AP
--[X] Industrial Assessments [SYP]: DC: 10. Successes Required: 2. AP Limit: 3. Effect: Assess your current suppliers of industrial materiel and military hardware to figure out who can be reliably expanded and who needs to be supplemented by new concerns.
-[X] Security (1 AP + 2 Free AP)
--[X] Long Tail: DC: 30. Successes Required: 1. AP Limit: 3. Effect: Improve your intelligences services' efficiency by vetting and hiring additional analysts and support staff to enable your field agents to better do their jobs.
---[X] 1 Security AP
--[X] Down the Mighty Miss [SYP]: DC: 30. Successes Required: 1. AP Limit: 2. Effect: Deepen your network along the Mississippi River, gaining access to better information.
--[X] Victorian Intelligence: DC: 30. Successes Required: 1. AP Limit: 2. Effect: Authorize additional support for Foreign Intelligence Office operations in Nova Scotia to establish new agents, before the Crusaders are pushed out and the Inquisitors can reestablish direct control.
-[X] Technological Recovery (1 AP + 1 Free AP)
--[X] Department of Education: DC: 30. Successes Needed: 2. AP Limit: 3. Effect: Found the Department of Education, which will be responsible for establishing and standardizing public schools within the Commonwealth.
---[X] 1 Technological Recovery AP + 1 Free AP
 
So I think our constant pop boom might actually be a net benefit, we have a steady supply of potential laborers and soldiers, and manpower will be major commodity in wars of attrition. Even with ample Russian support, a population whittled down by endless and fruitless wars will leave the Victorians demoralized and forced to make hard decisions once their population of white men becomes critically depleted.
 
I don't think we're guaranteed constant population booms.

At this point, we're getting ongoing refugees because we've been winning our war, as something of a happy side effect.
 
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Refresher On QM Habits
  • Threadmarks
    • As a general note, posted between all of my quests:

    It's been quite the long hiatus! As it's in the process of ending, I feel it only wise to post a general reminder of how I do things, QM-wise.
    1. I like writing character drama. Yes, 75% of my quests have been army management or nation quests. You're still getting character drama. Shit's fun.
      1. This goes double for those folks who follow the other 25%, where I wrote an actual character-centric quest focused around an entire society of people who are as a personality type congenitally and helplessly messy. It's about Dragon Ball, y'all knew what you were walking into. :D
      2. In terms of practical impacts, this means you are much better served asking what the characters as they've behaved to date would do in the situation presented than you are asking what the logical next plot point would be. I set up worlds with lots of actors in them and chuck them into the arena to bounce off of one another. There is no plot save what the characters create.
    2. Here's the big one. I am Lawful Evil. I believe in being scrupulously fair about how I go about things, but I am interested in drama and conflict in my quests, and I will mess with y'all in the pursuit of that within the rules I set out for myself.
      1. Your perspective is limited. You view the world by way of your viewpoint character. The information you get is accurate, but only to the extent that the viewpoint character perceives it. Statements made as a part of narration reflect the viewpoint character's perspective, and not the objective nature of reality. In addition, just because you get a non-PC perspective doesn't mean you get everything that viewpoint character experienced. Anything you see on-screen is true as above, but here more than anywhere, if something happened, and for whatever reason the PC wouldn't have direct knowledge of it (due to concealment or absence), I might simply omit it. That's not to say that non-PC perspectives are intrinsically suspect, but neither should you take them as quite as ironclad as a proper PC-centric update. All narrators are unreliable by default, and veterans of my quests can tell you that I will slip things through gaps in perspective.
      2. This does extend to me toying with mechanics; I'm not going to cheat you -- the result is the result -- but I'm more than willing to mess with what is reported to you. If your friend has an immensely successful time at a baking championship but they think a hard-won struggle would impress you more, then the DC you are told they were checking against might be significantly higher than was actually the case. Of course, the discrepancy is yours to notice with any other information you might have.
    3. I try my best not to mess with how a vote is going to turn out; if I'm giving you information that wasn't in the update, it's because it's something the viewpoint character genuinely would have known and factored into their decision, not because I've decided that I want another vote to win. It's not interesting to cheat like that; I'm not here to write fanfic, I'm here to run a quest.
    4. If I've made a mistake in the past with a QM ruling and in the present find that I have cause to regret it on the grounds that it hurts my ability to run the game to either my enjoyment or the players', I reserve the right to correct my mistake. The point of the game is always how it runs now, and not building a consistent set of case law in my statements.
    See y'all around the thread, folks. :D
     
  • Threadmarks
    • Glad to see this coming back and doubly so for the reminder it'll be needed for all coming back from the break so thanks for that!
     
    PoptartProdigy said:
    I like writing character drama. Yes, 75% of my quests have been army management or nation quests. You're still getting character drama. Shit's fun.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    This alone constitutes half of what keeps some of us invested.

    Management quests, even ones with excellent world-building, can get far too dry if their QM invests too heavily in only exposition-centric updates.
     
    So, is zelensky possible a resistance or Rebell leader in Ukraine?

    He stated that He would have stayed back to fight the Russians even if he hadn't been Präsident
     
    AllenWalker said:
    So, is zelensky possible a resistance or Rebell leader in Ukraine?

    He stated that He would have stayed back to fight the Russians even if he hadn't been Präsident
    Click to expand...
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    IMO I'd say he's dead. Whether of old age or because the Okhrana got to him. He'd have to be fighting the Russians for decades now, completely unaided and alone.

    TThat's not to say there's no resistance to Russian rule within the empire's borders, but I doubt Zelensky would still be around. He might have been an instrumental figure in said resistance, but most likely isn't around anymore.
     
    Saint_007 said:
    IMO I'd say he's dead. Whether of old age or because the Okhrana got to him. He'd have to be fighting the Russians for decades now, completely unaided and alone.

    TThat's not to say there's no resistance to Russian rule within the empire's borders, but I doubt Zelensky would still be around. He might have been an instrumental figure in said resistance, but most likely isn't around anymore.
    Click to expand...
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    I wouldn't say dead of old age, at least. The man is 44, so he'd be in his sixties if he was still alive.

    And Yeah, the most likely option is that He was martyred, but the idea of him still leading resistance cells? That the Russians still have the fear the lion of kiyv? It is a nice one
     
    Simon_Jester said:
    I don't think we're guaranteed constant population booms.

    At this point, we're getting ongoing refugees because we've been winning our war, as something of a happy side effect.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    On the other hand, we did take "Population Boom" as a trait during customization. While the Victorian Civil War certainly created mass waves of refugees, I think taking the population boom meant we are generally seen as a attractive migration target. While I think there are conditions (collapsing living standards) and measures (migration controls) that could stop this trait, it still in effect.
    PoptartProdigy said:
    Population Boom: This nation's promise and stability have attracted far too many mouths to feed, and the food and housing situations are deeply unstable. If this pressure is not relieved, mass die-offs are inevitable. After a brief respite, your recent victory over Victoria has begun the boom once more, as people flock to the borders of the only power in decades to face Victoria and win.
    Click to expand...
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    This seems to me like that anytime massive numbers of refugees or migrants are created within our geographical area, we are going to receive a larger number than expected otherwise from them. So while the population boom isn't guaranteed, the population is very likely to boom if the conditions are right due to this national spirit and migration will impact us more than it would otherwise.

    So, seems like expanding our economy to be able to care for the new citizens will take constant effort. On the bright side, this also gives us economic opportunities. If we manage to get large-scale production of labor intensive goods, we might get internationally competitive trading goods instead of being limited to exporting raw material. Without horribly exploiting the population! The rust belt might become a relevant production hub again.
     
    AllenWalker said:
    I wouldn't say dead of old age, at least. The man is 44, so he'd be in his sixties if he was still alive.

    And Yeah, the most likely option is that He was martyred, but the idea of him still leading resistance cells? That the Russians still have the fear the lion of kiyv? It is a nice one
    Click to expand...
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    It's 2077 in-universe here. He'd be a lot older than 60.
     
    Red Rationalist said:
    On the other hand, we did take "Population Boom" as a trait during customization. While the Victorian Civil War certainly created mass waves of refugees, I think taking the population boom meant we are generally seen as a attractive migration target. While I think there are conditions (collapsing living standards) and measures (migration controls) that could stop this trait, it still in effect.

    This seems to me like that anytime massive numbers of refugees or migrants are created within our geographical area, we are going to receive a larger number than expected otherwise from them. So while the population boom isn't guaranteed, the population is very likely to boom if the conditions are right due to this national spirit and migration will impact us more than it would otherwise.

    So, seems like expanding our economy to be able to care for the new citizens will take constant effort. On the bright side, this also gives us economic opportunities. If we manage to get large-scale production of labor intensive goods, we might get internationally competitive trading goods instead of being limited to exporting raw material. Without horribly exploiting the population! The rust belt might become a relevant production hub again.
    Click to expand...
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    You're misinterpreting the extra bold-faced text. This is a modification to the national spirit caused by circumstances- namely, that we set in motion a sequence of events that could not fully be foreseen at game start, but which incentivized a second migration wave.

    It does not deterministically require that every round of refugee movements in America wind up mainly on our doorstep.
     
    Simon_Jester said:
    You're misinterpreting the extra bold-faced text. This is a modification to the national spirit caused by circumstances- namely, that we set in motion a sequence of events that could not fully be foreseen at game start, but which incentivized a second migration wave.

    It does not deterministically require that every round of refugee movements in America wind up mainly on our doorstep.
    Click to expand...
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    You are right that external circumstances prolonged the national spirit (second migration wave).
    My point was that due to spirit being active, we are likely to receive massive numbers of refugees, leading to a population boom. Because of the conditions outlined in the non-boded text (stability, promises of good conditions) we are seen as an attractive state to migrate too. This combined with refugee waves, leads to the issue related to massive refugee influx. I think even if this spirit is inactive, it might reactivate given the right conditions (massive refugee numbers capable of heading to the Commonwealth). While I can't place a likelihood on those conditions happening again, the polity structure in North America seems set up in such a way that a larger local war displacing masses of people could very well occur. This would reactivate the spirit IMO, even if the influx of Victorian refugees stopped.
     
    Red Rationalist said:
    You are right that external circumstances prolonged the national spirit (second migration wave).
    My point was that due to spirit being active, we are likely to receive massive numbers of refugees, leading to a population boom. Because of the conditions outlined in the non-boded text (stability, promises of good conditions) we are seen as an attractive state to migrate too. This combined with refugee waves, leads to the issue related to massive refugee influx. I think even if this spirit is inactive, it might reactivate given the right conditions (massive refugee numbers capable of heading to the Commonwealth). While I can't place a likelihood on those conditions happening again, the polity structure in North America seems set up in such a way that a larger local war displacing masses of people could very well occur. This would reactivate the spirit IMO, even if the influx of Victorian refugees stopped.
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    My own point is that if the conditions you describe were met without us having the specific Population Boom national spirit, I'm pretty sure @PoptartProdigy would write us having a refugee wave anyway; the national spirit doesn't play much of an ongoing role as I understand it.
     
    Simon_Jester said:
    My own point is that if the conditions you describe were met without us having the specific Population Boom national spirit, I'm pretty sure @PoptartProdigy would write us having a refugee wave anyway; the national spirit doesn't play much of an ongoing role as I understand it.
    Click to expand...
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    The way I understand national spirits is that they represent specific conditions we have - either at the start, or we acquired trough our actions (example: "Established" ). While we would have likely had a refugee wave IMO, possibly represented by a national spirit. But this would presumably a smaller one due to being perceived as less welcoming to refugees and less stable among neighboring population, due to us not choosing those conditions as part of our customization options at the start. Speculation on my part, but I think not choosing "Population Boom" and winning the Eerie war would give us a different national spirit relating to refugees with different narrative tilt and some mechanical differences.
     
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