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Oh god, and we're back to economics talks. Whyyyyyyyyyyyy ?
Please, streamline this shit for the sake of the poor people like me who can't make head or tail of it.
That's
Shepard Quest Mk VI, Technological Revolution
- Thread starter Hoyr
- Start date
That's
A question about the Alliance-Batarian War. It has been a while, so I want to make sure that my speculations are in the right place.
Is it correct to say that the ongoing war between the Systems Alliance and the Batarians is actually a proxy war with the Reapers?
In my mind, the Systems Alliance's unprecedented technological advancement and its rapidly growing military strength had caused the Batarians to become desperate. We know that the only reason why war did not break out between the Batarian Hegemony and the Systems Alliance in canon is that the SA's believed that a war with the Batarians would be too costly and the Batarians knew that they were too weak. Basically, due to the influence of PI, the Batarians must have accelerated research on the Leviathan of Dis, at a far earlier time, which caused them to be almost completely compromised by the Reapers at a far earlier time than canon.
In fact, I think it is possible that a Reaper, possibly Sovereign, made a deal with the Batarian Hegemony. This would explain how the Batarian Hegemony now has Arc Reactors as well as other types of advanced technology. It seems to me, Reapers, at first, want to use the Batarian Hegemony to possibly capture Revy alive. Now that attempt has failed, it seems that the Reapers are going to use the Batarians as a sort of test proxy. The Reapers would want to see PI tech in action and the ongoing Alliance Batarian War is perfect for that.
PI is going to create more advanced military tech to help the SA fight the Batarians and the Reapers are going to have a chance to steal some of that tech in the ongoing war.
Is it correct to say that the ongoing war between the Systems Alliance and the Batarians is actually a proxy war with the Reapers?
In my mind, the Systems Alliance's unprecedented technological advancement and its rapidly growing military strength had caused the Batarians to become desperate. We know that the only reason why war did not break out between the Batarian Hegemony and the Systems Alliance in canon is that the SA's believed that a war with the Batarians would be too costly and the Batarians knew that they were too weak. Basically, due to the influence of PI, the Batarians must have accelerated research on the Leviathan of Dis, at a far earlier time, which caused them to be almost completely compromised by the Reapers at a far earlier time than canon.
In fact, I think it is possible that a Reaper, possibly Sovereign, made a deal with the Batarian Hegemony. This would explain how the Batarian Hegemony now has Arc Reactors as well as other types of advanced technology. It seems to me, Reapers, at first, want to use the Batarian Hegemony to possibly capture Revy alive. Now that attempt has failed, it seems that the Reapers are going to use the Batarians as a sort of test proxy. The Reapers would want to see PI tech in action and the ongoing Alliance Batarian War is perfect for that.
PI is going to create more advanced military tech to help the SA fight the Batarians and the Reapers are going to have a chance to steal some of that tech in the ongoing war.
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Darik29
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Well, to be specific, the Batarian Hegemony's ruling party are all indoctrinated. No deals were made, the Batarians are just the Reaper's current patsies.
Sure, they made an attempt to capture Revy alive. Hell, they've apparently decided her death is intolerable, and want her working her magic twenty four seven.
They also, however, are incapable of allowing Anyone interesting to live free of there control. In any capacity.
While there biggest attempt to date has failed, they're more interested than ever in ensuring Revy lives.
So yeah, Reapers want Revy alive. And are willing to throw away the Hegemony to see if Humanity can actually defend her.
Also to see what new toys she comes up with.
I'm Still waiting to see Revy work on Cruisers and Dreadnoughts, not even mentioning Carriers. Fun times ahead for the Alliance there, yeah.
Oh! And we had just started serious work on cracking QEC tech! That'll be fun to unleash.
Sure, they made an attempt to capture Revy alive. Hell, they've apparently decided her death is intolerable, and want her working her magic twenty four seven.
They also, however, are incapable of allowing Anyone interesting to live free of there control. In any capacity.
While there biggest attempt to date has failed, they're more interested than ever in ensuring Revy lives.
So yeah, Reapers want Revy alive. And are willing to throw away the Hegemony to see if Humanity can actually defend her.
Also to see what new toys she comes up with.
I'm Still waiting to see Revy work on Cruisers and Dreadnoughts, not even mentioning Carriers. Fun times ahead for the Alliance there, yeah.
Oh! And we had just started serious work on cracking QEC tech! That'll be fun to unleash.
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Darik29
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No. Bad. None of that.
Hell, we're already in the process of getting her Captain America'd, we will Not be performing any other experiments on her until she's done becoming a walking Demi-Goddess.
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- U.S.
what do you have against hamsters?
Darik29
Verified Delicious
Because the hamsters would be trapped in little balls all day, and Revy would inevitably get distracted by adorable hamsters in tiny balls, and then Kasumi steals our latest thing and ends up scaring half the facility. Again.
No thanks! It was bad enough when she stole the... stealth suit...
...
Did. Did we ever manage to Catch her after she stole the stealth suit?
I think it was implied that Revy eventually gifted the stealth suit to Kasumi.
HanEmpire
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Didn't Kasumi take it out for a joyride? IIRC she became PI's resident poltergeist.
That is right. It is reason why I think Revy had to "give" the suit to Kasumi.
While user side might need streamlining (arguable, at least some participants seemed to enjoy the minutae and being able to tweak them), these speculation enrich the worldbuilding and potentially the game. For example, take my latest speculation. If eezo becomes cheap and its production could be scaled with demand, then thessia-forming worlds becomes much easier. This likely increases asari colonization, and also increases asari birthrate in the colonies, as I would expect for their poor it might be an issue right now to get enough eezo-enriched food to carry a viable baby to term (I wonder what kind of disorders eezoless asari have). On the other hand, it damages Thessia's food exports, while enriching (at least until costs drop) people producing farmaceutics with eezo (including illegal drugs like red sand). So all sorts of effects that would affect asari society, both economically and politically.Oh god, and we're back to economics talks. Whyyyyyyyyyyyy ?
Please, streamline this shit for the sake of the poor people like me who can't make head or tail of it.
Fully completed frigate project will be a paradigm shifter by itself, as it will show that planets cannot be defended. I think after we finish it we should switch to space station construction, and start a rapid habitat production, while fueling ad campaigns encouraging people to settle in space (hire some quarians there?).
- Location
- United states
Actually considering that there are literally hundreds or even thousands of habitable planets in-universe living on planets is more economically feasible unlike real life where there planets people can actually live on are practically non existent. Meanwhile planets have tons of space and can hold a collosal amount of people and cheaply too with plenty of room to grow. People living on space stations meanwhile is actually pretty expensive due to the cost of building space stations to house a ton of people and it would be a lot harder to expand a space station then to expand a city along with more resource intensive.
The issue is that planets cannot be defended against our type of technology. At all. And ecosphere killers (or just city busters) are cheap.
In addition to that:
1) Planets don't come with customized gravity or biosphere, severely limiting them to what kind of population can live where
2) Planets can't move at all. Thus limiting economic mobility and creating economic bottlenecks
3) Garden worlds are relatively rare.
In general, strategically and with Reapers in mind, space habitats are better. Security is just the political lever I want to push to get people interested and involved in shifting to space habitation.
- Location
- Somewhere, probably Earth
I remember there being a good deal of concern regarding our production facilities. The fact that the majority of the Alliance's production for vital parts like Repulsors and Arc Reactors was out in the colonies meant an entire fleet needed to be dedicated to that particular sector of space, which was causing some serious logistical concerns.
We could probably gain quite a bit of political capital if we have a smaller, not sustainable but still serviceable production facility for Reactors and Repulsors set up on Earth.
We could probably gain quite a bit of political capital if we have a smaller, not sustainable but still serviceable production facility for Reactors and Repulsors set up on Earth.
Hiring Quarians to help construct livable space stations makes a lot of sense. Due to the unique experiences of living on the Migrant Fleet, the Quarians are pretty much the only people who have the expertise of living in space in the long term that other species simply do not have.
That is correct. But what about constructing massive mobile space stations designed for asteroid mining and collecting solar power. Basically, is it possible for us to create the space version of factory ships? I am thinking about massive mobile space stations that can produce manufactured goods and where the crew can live and work in for years without needing to go visit a planet?
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As our Head of Security, and as her dad, that's probably her dad's job.
We have arc reactors. We have solved energy.
As I recall, the major energy companies responded to the industrial scale arc reactors by just giving up and starting to diversify.
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- United states
As mentioned it's really, really impractical to move a bunch of people to space habitats due to how resource intensive it would be and time consuming to make them and move people to them. Another thing is that in-universe most races the vast majority of the time aren't willing to slag a habitable world due to how valuable they are. Even the Reapers avoid doing that when possible in the vast majority of cases. Another possible major reason that it's likely nowhere an issue as you think it is is due to the simple fact that most cities aren't actually strategically important. Also mad comes into play since if they start pulling that off they may get payed back in kind.
Not to mention that if a habitat did get targeted the vast majority of them would be screwed by a serious assault unless the habitats are seriously kitted out on defense which comes with two issues, one that it would be incredibly expensive and two that it may just have the Reapers or other invaders decide to go fuck it and just blow the damn stations up for being to difficult to deal with. Note that this was one of the major issues the Quarians had where they put weapons on all of their civilian ships making them military targets. Another issue is if a station gets damaged too badly it would be a metal coffin in several cases due to how essential life support is and them potentially not being able to receive help in time(not to mention how expensive it would be to repair stations that were damaged) for the people inside and them being made military targets wouldn't help there.
Seriously, not having so many people living on stations would likely slow the Reapers down since people on planets would require them to be hunted down to the last man which would both be easier for the Reapers on the station since there wouldn't be many places to hide or too hard and may lead them to just blow said stations up. Because the Reapers were mainly interested in capturing humans alive and were mostly blowing up the races defenses. They are actually the least likely race to start nuking planets especially since they don't actually intend to limit the number of planets races can live on. On to the numbered point:
1) This is nowhere near the problem you are making it out to be considering how many planets most races can live on. Not to mention that the planets the races do have access to are freaking planets meaning they can sustain quite likely tens of billions of people and people keep finding them all the time. Habitats may be useful for a select race but for most most of the time it's not really an issue.
2) Have no idea what you mean, that's never been a problem for anyone anywhere. If people want to move they can get a space ship but realistically it seems like the vast majority of people would never actually leave their planet even if space travel is super easy.
3) Again not really an issue considering that mankind has been spreading out like crazy finding as many planets throughout their short time in the galactic community. And again, planets could realistically hold tens of billions of people.
The costs of building space habitats are very arguable, especially if:
1) Energy is solved.
2) Eezo shortage is solved - I am willing to bet that large part of the construction cost is eezo for gravity generation
3) Modular designs make building easier and cheaper
Why would building modern cities on new planets be (much) cheaper than building space habitat modules? New worlds don't have industry for a lot of stuff (starting from simple things like glass or wires), so that has to be imported offworld. So, cost analysis is not straighforward.
Defense costs are, again, arguable, in the situation where eezo is cheap and energy is solved. It is much easier to outfit a space habitat with kinetic shields than it is to do so with a planet. As to defense of planets - you can't prevent enemy troops from landing on your planet at all. You can do so for space habitats much easier. The issue of the station being damaged too badly is mostly solvable with modular engineering and making sections of habitats self-contained.
For numbered points:
1) How many planets can many races comfortably live on? Garden worlds are a rare premium, which is the entire reason for there being laws against use of WMDs on them. And such worlds are definitely of a limited supply that doesn't meet demand - hence, for example, quarian situation.
2) Right now if trade routes shift, or resources are exhausted, the planets are left where they are. With mobile space habitats, this becomes a non-issue.
New colonies are not industrialized. It takes decades at least, centuries likely for new colonies to be industrially effective and providing the same level of life as core worlds. Habitats do not suffer these issues.
3) No, this is very much an issue. Especially for species like drell, quarians, elcor, volus. I am not limiting this to humanity.
- Location
- Leeds
Counter offer, if energy and Eezo are solved, put engines on planets and fly them to the trade routes.
rofl::lolThe issue is biomes. In closed environments they can be maintained anywhere. On planets, you'd also need to move stars.Counter offer, if energy and Eezo are solved, put engines on planets and fly them to the trade routes.
- Location
- United states
Preventing enemies from landing anywhere near you seems like it would be counter productive for enemies like the Reapers who as I mentioned would be far more likely to blow up space stations due to being harder to invade and may just have enemies more willing to destroy them if the possibility of occupying them is too difficult. Even if enemies do land on a planet if the cities are well defended it would still be an immense problem for them. Also we don't need to shield the entire planet, just the cities and as I mentioned most races including the Reapers aren't actually that willing to nuke planets or even cities. Also not seeing why we can't have kinetic shields for our planet side cities.
The issue of a space station getting damaged is still an issue since if they can't be reached by certain people in time they could be stuck in a giant coffin. We've seen that the Reapers were able to shut down the Mass Relays cutting off everyone from each other. If the stations can't get the resources due to unforseen circumstances than it could be a serious problem, more so since fixing stations could seriously be expensive and unavoidable since the people living on them are pretty much stuck and the life sustaining system are literally necessary for everyone on said station to live.
1) The Quarians are literally the worst possible example because their immune system is so bad they can only live without suits on their home planet. It was also noted by Shepard themselves in canon that they could have found another planet to live on by ME2 but Tali stated that it would take too long which maybe why the race didn't try that hard to found a new planet. And as I noted garden worlds are actually plentiful to the point that humanity was able to found several dozen colonies on several planets after just a few years on the galactic scene and we growing rapidly. Note that those planets haven't even begun to reach capacity and likely won't for hundreds or even thousands of years.
2) That is defnitely not a problem. I mean for gods sake, our cities IRL don't move and it's not really a problem for the world economy. And again, galactic transportation that lets one travel across the galaxy in days makes it a non issue.
3) Yes it is still not that big an issue as you are making it out to be. Sure it's an issue for some races but not really that many or much. The Elcor can pretty much live anywhere, the Drell just need an arid planet and they are so few having one would mean there wouldn't be issues in finding more until much later, we are probably going to fix the Quarians immune system making it a moot point which would pretty much leave the Volus which is literally just one race where it's a problem for them. So while space habitats could be useful for some races it still isn't necessary for the vast majority of people.
...Didn't you literally just state that our modular cities would make that kind of thing a non issue?
Actually shifting a large amount of production resources to Earth is already on the books; it's called Project Earthfall. We build 3 x Factory IIIs in the top 1,000 largest population centers on Earth along with Administration Centers to help manage all that and comply with local laws. Expected cost is ~3.0 trillion credits which we should have next quarter but odds are we'll wait until 2375-Q1 so we have a larger buffer since that would deplete 96.2% of our cash reserves and income for that quarter. Considering that we'd be doing other things as well that would eat into our revenue it's probably for the best to delay that by a quarter.
As a reminder to everybody (myself included), the most recent tech roadmap was here in the thread, but we're probably going to be shifting to an entirely new research system (or even the one Hoyr himself suggested, that was more Hero-based than Lab-based). Also:
And then there was this:
Of course two quarters after signing the damn thing PI puts out their multi-core eezo drive design and makes the treaty useless again.
And then there was this:
It occurs to me it would be a nasty trick (which we should totally do) to base the limit not on power output of the weapons, but on the size/eezo content of the eezo core. After all, the point of Farixen is to prevent nations ruining themselves in arms races, not to make Citadel races incapable of effectively protecting themselves; the best way to do that would be to limit the number of eezo-expensive ships, rather than limiting the weapon strength.
Of course two quarters after signing the damn thing PI puts out their multi-core eezo drive design and makes the treaty useless again.