My thesis is going to take up the next two months. After that? Well, if nobody else has stepped up, maybe. It would probably take at least a month afterwards to get into the thing. First a reread, then considering what parts of the mechanics to keep, and what to change, planning for the future, a look a finances, so on.
Shepard Quest Mk VI, Technological Revolution
- Thread starter Hoyr
- Start date
HanEmpire
Delicious
Cool, sounds great. Hell, even if you don't take up the position, streamlining the system might help resuscitate the Quest.
Good luck on your thesis.
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- Location
- United states
Pretty much agree, if we were going by the usual quest letter ranking with said ranking going from least to most Revy would be in a category of her own. Example, F-A, with F being worse to A being what is the absolute peak for what humans are capable of with someone like Enstein being around A and a completely uneducated person being around F.
Revy though would not fit on the scale due to having an intellect that has shown itself to b way above everyone else and so would probably have a ranking of S or EX, the former being a special rank for truly special cases while the latter is for the absolutely most one of a kind attributes that are practically impossible to calculate due to the issue of comparing it it to anything like it.
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anemone221
Oly Oly Oxen Free we are all out in the free!
- Location
- Texas
Ok so I expanded the system to 110 with 105 being the leading person in the field and 110 making doctorates look like rank amateurs. I could probably compress this back down to a 1-100 scale but I was working on the 1-100 skill like how they do in Oblivion of Novice, Apprentice, Journeyman, Expert, and Master levels.
Now the reason I want to limit this to a 1-110 scale is that you got to look at it another way. The average doctorate is knowledgeable in 2-3 subjects. So they would have like a Mechanical 90, Robotics 90, and an Electrical 85, this would allow them to build most robotics body it would have nothing to do with programming the robot and most of the other areas of engineering would be in the sub 80 or sub 70 range depending on the subject. The key with Revy that makes her broken op is that she is superhuman in that she can pick up skills with alarming ability. She is not limited to knowing 2 or 3 subjects really well she has unlimited potential in that she can learn everything.
So whereas a human might have a cumulative Knowledge skill level in the mid 500's Revy is technically uncapped.
I am trying to put a soft cap on leveling skills so rolls don't get frankly stupid like in some other quests. For me, the most memorable example of soft capping is in Perfect World International where you need almost double the experience to level from 103 to 104 going from 1.1 billion cumulative xp to 2.5 billion cumulative XP. What I am trying to accomplish is a rewarding but ultimately soft capped progressions system for most skills.
Now the reason I want to limit this to a 1-110 scale is that you got to look at it another way. The average doctorate is knowledgeable in 2-3 subjects. So they would have like a Mechanical 90, Robotics 90, and an Electrical 85, this would allow them to build most robotics body it would have nothing to do with programming the robot and most of the other areas of engineering would be in the sub 80 or sub 70 range depending on the subject. The key with Revy that makes her broken op is that she is superhuman in that she can pick up skills with alarming ability. She is not limited to knowing 2 or 3 subjects really well she has unlimited potential in that she can learn everything.
So whereas a human might have a cumulative Knowledge skill level in the mid 500's Revy is technically uncapped.
I am trying to put a soft cap on leveling skills so rolls don't get frankly stupid like in some other quests. For me, the most memorable example of soft capping is in Perfect World International where you need almost double the experience to level from 103 to 104 going from 1.1 billion cumulative xp to 2.5 billion cumulative XP. What I am trying to accomplish is a rewarding but ultimately soft capped progressions system for most skills.
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- Location
- Germany
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Any idea of adding limiters in the from of "max skill = 10*relevant attribute"? Absent special circumstances that'd limit skills based on prerequisites - even studying 20 years won't make a genius if your intelligence is not up to it. Or let you bench-press 300kg with average strength.
- Location
- Leeds
I think that quest progression in this isn't determined by skills as much as you think, for the most part Revy defines the stat cap and she's gone from basic knowledge to doctorate within a turn or two. I'm a little concerned this is a red herring.
Progression in this quest is focused on the tech tree rather than the skills.
anemone221
Oly Oly Oxen Free we are all out in the free!
- Location
- Texas
I was going to have skills be conducive to how well a project comes together plus her ability to help in a field of research. Tony Stark didn't know how to build the Ironman suit without a lot of background knowledge that unlocked his ability to create it. If you want to look at an MCU lore example look at the ARC reactor it went through 4 different versions as far as I have seen (Raganorock the last one I saw) Being the huge prototype, the cave special, the improved cave special that poison him, and the non poisoning one. Each one he created was a further refinement on the previous example of tech that he now had a better understanding of.
- Location
- Queensland, Australia
Perhaps give Revy a unique skill, that basically is all about learning new skills and combining skills together to get a result?
And this skill is much better at it than the 'normal' skills that do similar tasks other people get.
So like, a normal person gets a x2 learning multiplier to their learning rate if they already have high levels of skill in a closely related skill, eg: They have Mechanics 90 and are learning Robotics. They also gain a penalty to their learning rate if they don't have a special trait/attribute/whatever showing how they're smarter than most people and they already have ___ high level skills in that field, and overall or something. With the people with that trait/attribute/whatever having reduced penalties, or higher limits or something.
Revy on the other hand has no penalty, and she gets things like 'x4 per closely related skill' and 'x2 per related skill', with 'related skill' meaning something that might normally not be seen to be applicable, at least in a real life situation. Such as using her high knowledge in physics and chemistry to boost her learning rate for ballistic shooting, because she's figuring out the energy generated by the bullet's chemical propellant, and then working out the ballistics equation in her head and using that to aim.
And maybe it also means that when she's working on something, at least with certain types of skills, when the skill equation is done to figure out the results, instead of the normal... I don't know, maybe take the average of the relevant skills to the task, add to the roll, equation to get the result... Revy does something like 'take the average of the relevant skills, then double it, add to roll' for the results?
And this skill is much better at it than the 'normal' skills that do similar tasks other people get.
So like, a normal person gets a x2 learning multiplier to their learning rate if they already have high levels of skill in a closely related skill, eg: They have Mechanics 90 and are learning Robotics. They also gain a penalty to their learning rate if they don't have a special trait/attribute/whatever showing how they're smarter than most people and they already have ___ high level skills in that field, and overall or something. With the people with that trait/attribute/whatever having reduced penalties, or higher limits or something.
Revy on the other hand has no penalty, and she gets things like 'x4 per closely related skill' and 'x2 per related skill', with 'related skill' meaning something that might normally not be seen to be applicable, at least in a real life situation. Such as using her high knowledge in physics and chemistry to boost her learning rate for ballistic shooting, because she's figuring out the energy generated by the bullet's chemical propellant, and then working out the ballistics equation in her head and using that to aim.
And maybe it also means that when she's working on something, at least with certain types of skills, when the skill equation is done to figure out the results, instead of the normal... I don't know, maybe take the average of the relevant skills to the task, add to the roll, equation to get the result... Revy does something like 'take the average of the relevant skills, then double it, add to roll' for the results?
- Location
- Leeds
I'm not certain I understand what you're trying to say as that could easily be explained as a demonstration of the tech tree in action, however if I have understood you right: That you think having x level in y skill is a prerequisite to attempt project z.
That wouldn't work with the research as it currently exists.
If characters can only contribute to projects that they have requisite skills for then all research labs will suddenly be unable to contribute to most of the advanced techs. Which means that everything needs go back and be rebalanced so that we can feasibly explore it with just Revy's 40d10s and whatever heros can pitch in, rather than the organisations 215d10+700.
We could potentially make every project require a tech lead to be specifically assigned, but why are we the emphasis of the research system from things that have already been researched to a new one based on what skills people have?
Additionally wouldn't it undermine NPC factions who now cannot reverse engineer Shep tech in order to replicate it and instead have to grind their scientists levels high enough that they could make those projects from scratch?
anemone221
Oly Oly Oxen Free we are all out in the free!
- Location
- Texas
@Alanek I plan on getting most of the formula's worked out and pre-run a turn or two to work out the progression system and then tweak it some more.
Right guys, I have Gunsmithing, Explosives, Biotics, Art, Business, Engineering, Computers, Vehicles, Aircraft, Ships, Survivability, and basic subjects. Is there any others you guys would suggest?
Right guys, I have Gunsmithing, Explosives, Biotics, Art, Business, Engineering, Computers, Vehicles, Aircraft, Ships, Survivability, and basic subjects. Is there any others you guys would suggest?
KhazintheDark
May or may not be insane...
- Location
- Not where you are. Probably.
Maths, Physics, biology.
Also should we ask an Admin or Mod to change the title of the thread to Shepard Quest: Looking for GM?
Also should we ask an Admin or Mod to change the title of the thread to Shepard Quest: Looking for GM?
HanEmpire
Delicious
Diplomacy should be a stat too. Revy took diplomacy courses and tutoring to boost PI's PR.
Might attract some attention, yeah.
anemone221
Oly Oly Oxen Free we are all out in the free!
- Location
- Texas
Right I am currently sitting at 160 skills Updated Link to spreadsheet should I try and reduce the number, increase or keep it as is? After I get an answer on that I will begin to go through the quest and start setting up numbers for her skills. After I get through that I will begin to look at business.
Are there any important skills I am missing?
Are there any important skills I am missing?
- Location
- Leeds
Hey, skill bloat. Let another good reason to advocate a simplified skill system and continue to use tech tree progression.
anemone221
Oly Oly Oxen Free we are all out in the free!
- Location
- Texas
I could easily reduce it to 50 skills but that would not allow a lot of complexity for Revy's actions going forward.
- Location
- Leeds
50 skills != A lot of complexity?
Just use narrative mechanics. It's basically what the quests been running on anyway.
As the super-obsessed guy who wrote 50% more posts on this thread than the actual QM (spoiler: probably won't be doing that anymore since life is much busier now), I'm going to say right now that, while I probably will look at this spreadsheet at some point, I can't see like 90%+ of the people who will want to read this thread ever looking at it, much less reading the whole thing, much less than that studying it enough to write effective plans that use it.
Probably the cardinal rule in making a Quest that will get a lot of active, informed participation is to make a simple, flexible system that inspires people to look creatively at the rules. A lot of the charm of the current research and Quarterly Action Plan systems was that so much of it was player-generated due to its open-endedness and flexibility. @Yog's the one who came up with TIR shielding, the thermal annihilator and I'm pretty sure the variable wavelength laser tech; @UberJJK came up with the finances spreadsheet and the ship calculator; I came up with the modular tech that's proven so useful so far. All of that was very engaging when it was created, even if it has since become complex enough to be opaque to new people, so the key to any revamp to the system will be to preserve as much of the openness and flexibility as possible while simplifying what we can to make it easier for newbies to absorb and master quickly.
Any system that starts with 160+ skills is absolutely not going to be simple nor flexible, and I say this as someone who is a big fan of the quest that @UberJJK still has in his sig as "The only quest where the Omake's are hard math." All you're doing is moving from one horribly complex system to another, and this time without the mastery that many of us oldsters had with the previous system. It's just not going to work: players just don't have the time to spend tens of hours pouring over a game system the way the QM will, since for them this will be simply one of many Quests that they will participate in, and you will quickly find your playerbase drying up.
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Just popping in to mention, and sadly break my nearly year long streak of having exactly 666 posts on this thread, that while I'd probably enjoy GMing this quest I just can't afford the time investment. All the times when I used to be able to sit down for hours and build up a vote plan or thousands of words long series of responses have been gobbled up by RL stuff. So even if the quest restarted I probably wouldn't be as active as I used to let alone be capable of managing the extra burden of actually running the quest.
- Location
- Leeds
Your sacrifice is noted.
- Location
- Dual citizen of SV&SB
I feel your pain. I really feel your pain. RL sucks sometimes.
...even if I only had half so many posts.
So, two months are up, my thesis is done (and thank the gods for that), and my noses is only running a little. Time to talk about the quest.
I said I'd be up for QMing it. I'll spent the next bit or so rereading the quest, trying to grok the mechanics, talking to the other QMs, and so on. Dunno how long that'll take, but I'd say at least two weeks.
I also invite you to do a reread with me, and tell me what you like about the quest. This is actually really important. Are you here for the tech progression, the plot, the characters, the business decisions? Something else? Please tell me. It'll be quite helpful to me. And if you have issues or concerns, then do voice them.
I said I'd be up for QMing it. I'll spent the next bit or so rereading the quest, trying to grok the mechanics, talking to the other QMs, and so on. Dunno how long that'll take, but I'd say at least two weeks.
I also invite you to do a reread with me, and tell me what you like about the quest. This is actually really important. Are you here for the tech progression, the plot, the characters, the business decisions? Something else? Please tell me. It'll be quite helpful to me. And if you have issues or concerns, then do voice them.
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Khepri14
Thus kindly I scatter...
- Location
- Following the wind
BURN THE FOUL NECRO- Oh, heyyy there new QM. Don't ban me from the next thread pretty please~?
And I'm more here for the characters and the plot. The SCIENCE! and business bullshit I leave to others.
