Shepard Quest Mk VI, Technological Revolution

Also, I wanted to use the phrase "fully armed and operational battle station."

As well you should.

So you're saying we should get into politics?

Or spend time reviewing Youtube comments.

Too slow for us to be useful. We've got only a decade or so before canon starts.

Where were we on the whole 'child soldiers' thing?

PI is basically Aperture, just with a sane owner and a proper marketing department.

So....not like Aperture?

Tens of Thousands, it'd be like what two or more levels above orbital ring?
Small Moon Titanic Space Station
Artificial Planetoid
Dyson Sail
Dyson Ring
Dyson Sphere

No, five... so alot.

"Revvy, no."
"Revvy yes!"

I wonder if we can make Nerve Gears and create SAO?

Didn't we already do that? Just, you know, without trapping people inside it?
.... @Hazard Tell me that I shouldn't complete this line of thought.
 
While it would take work I'd love to redo it. I'd make it so Research Heroes where the focus of RP production. Each hero would generate points. If you gave them a lab they'd generate more. Better labs could improve this to a point. Giving them minions supporting research teams would also generate more points. Current bonuses could still exist in some form as well. This may also effect the ratio of "typed" RP as well.

This would throttle RP gain nicely and put it under my direct control. It would allow me to make sure that all gains in RP rate are match by gains in techs to research. It would also nicely explain why lab spam is not the way to victory. In addition there wouldn't be some Lab III on planet something something, it would be so and so's lab on planet something something. I'd probably relax the labs per planet thing to. "Typed" RP also forces some spreading, but not to massively.

Regardless as for the current system it's a choice between deep and wide. So far I've been okay with deep and players haven ever super focused on a tech to far so... *shrugs*. Making some RP "typed" has helped a lot too.
I would love to participate in such a redo. Some thoughts:
1) What generates RP are labs. But it's not much. Something basically like 1,2 and 4 RP per Lab tiers I, II and III.
1) Make a research hero the modifier to the research point generation. For example, Revy is X10 in everything. Conrad is X8 in ME fields, X5 in optics, X2 in biology, X0.5 in social sciences.
2) Heroes can be assigned labs. Those labs assigned to heroes get bonus modifiers to RP. For the first, say, 5 labs, it's a full bonus, then for the next five it's 0.5 bonus, then it's 0.25, etc.

This quite realistically represents research heroes as, first and foremost, leaders, while remaining somewhat not too complex. You can also do the following:
1) Give research heroes a flat RP generation in addition to the multiplier - this represents that they themselves are also researchers, not just administrators
2) Give bonuses or modifiers for cooperation. Ie when two heroes work together on a project, there's a further modifier, say, 1.25 to research generated.
3) Give modifiers based on the scale of the project involved. Basically, if you have a 400 RP project, and you assign 400 RP to it, you'll only get 0.75*400=300 RP progression, representing redundancy, inefficiency and such. Basically, tasking a whole laboratory with something trivial like developing a new toothbrush leads to people falling over each other, and general inefficiency.

The downside (or is it?) is a bit more complex RP point assignments.
Okay, @Hoyr has already weighed in on this, but my two cents:

While doable, I'm not sure this is going to be practical to any degree, at least not for awhile. Sure, you can use this to build dynamically reconfigurable structures, but really all you're doing is making a really, really inefficient omni-gel, and sacrificing the eezo and power budget that you'd normally spend on shielding and putting it towards structural integrity instead. Something like this would only be practical if you had such a massive power and eezo surplus that using a bunch of it to create a structural integrity field like you're proposing here doesn't significantly impact the strength of the shielding, which I suppose means you're dedicating 100% of the real mass of your vehicle to eezo and 4th+ generation Arc Reactors.
Really, this was an idea on how to make at least something approaching mecha in a way that even approached practicality.
 
Really, this was an idea on how to make at least something approaching mecha in a way that even approached practicality.
Oh, that reminds me, I never commented on your idea of biotic drones. Something like that strikes me as a lot more complicated than just upscaling existing biotic effects. The way biotics work right now is perhaps not understood, but at least known: you can take a given biotic and map his or her eezo nodules and nervous sytem to find out exactly what activations give you what effects. Scaling something like that up is likely more complex than simply x2/4/8-ing everything, but at least you don't have to start from scratch. Making a biotic drone swarm though? That requires you discard the scaled "nervous system" entirely, meaning you're basically building the whole system from scratch. That strikes me as a separate, higher point tech than Artificial Biotics, or whatever tech we have to add to get Charge+Nova as an artificial biotic (Advanced Artificial Biotics?) maybe something like Pure Synthetic Biotics at 6400-points.
 
Really, this was an idea on how to make at least something approaching mecha in a way that even approached practicality.

I seem to remember it being mentioned that mech could be used to massively enhance biotics thanks to their shape. Is the QM going to follow through on that? Because mechs are awesome and it's a shame that people are being too hard for hard science. Which is weird considering the rest of the Mass Effect setting.
 
@Hoyr: If I were designing a quest like this, what I'd do is split 'Research Points' into two things:
  • Research Points (RP):
    • These represent common, standard research - good for incremental improvements, new applications of known technologies, and original but not spectacular research in known fields. Basically, the stuff any well-staffed tech company could do, if they had our notes.
    • They are generated in large amounts by labs, research agreements, purchased technologies, etc.
    • There's no limit to how many can be built, except money
  • Invention Points (IP):
    • These represent crazy genius - the stuff that only Revy, and to a much lesser extent her Research Heroes, can do. Inventing new fields of research, doing the impossible, breaking paradigms, that sort of thing.
    • They are produced in moderate quantities by Revy, and small quantities by research heroes and omake.
    • Heroes other than Revvy can only produce IP for their specialist fields, or at least are much less efficient elsewhere.
  • IP can be converted to RP - Revy is worth a large lab by herself, and other research heroes could replace small or medium labs - but the reverse is not true (or possibly true only at horrendous conversion rates). Heroes can be assigned a lab, and receive a boost to their IP output, but with diminishing returns - a small lab offers a major boost, but a medium lab only offers a small improvement, and a large lab is a waste.
  • Different kinds of projects require different amounts of IP and RP:
    • Studying a known technology (e.g. 'Laser weapons', or 'Cruiser construction') or performing design work (e.g. designing a new class of ship using previously research technologies) requires only RP. Some projects might benefit from a small amount of optional IP to improve the results - the new ship has that little magic touch that makes it more efficient than the sum of its parts, or Revvy jots down some notes in the margins of a diagram that open up interesting new avenues of improvement that anybody could have done but nobody noticed before.
    • Improving on one of the special techs (e.g. 'Arc Reactor Mk III') requires lots of RP, for the rigorous, incremental testing and improvement, and also some IP because only Revvy really has insight into the mysteries
    • Researching new techs or paradigm-shattering creations requires fairly large amounts of IP, because only Revvy can come up with this stuff, plus a relatively moderate amount of RP to create something production-ready.
 
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@Chaff Since this is a follow on to your last on-site, maybe a related title like: Physics by Accident.
That is even better than @MTB's Playtime!

Okay so I'm open to suggestions of other bonuses, usually the player picks here. Maybe something to do with biotics? Uhhh... I don't know. Not up for the thinking at the moment.
  • Well, you could have Belan the Hanar as a minor research hero, if such a thing exists. It might as well, given we have at least two-tiered research heroes: Revy and everyone else. Belan would count as a third, lower category, something like research squire or whatever. So more or less Researchers < Squires < Heroes < Revy.
  • Can we have the Hanar as a Research Hero with a specialization in Precision Biotics (and possibly Material Science going by what was written)? I don't know what all he would open for us, but the way he uses his Biotics as utility-tools is something I want to see more of.
  • This may count into precision biotic as a research field?
  • It may have diplomatic impact, since I don't know if Belan would be able to keep its mouth shut regarding QEC implications, at least not to the Illuminated Primacy. So… a more grounded, less religious bonus for hanar diplomacy for PI (but not SA)? I wouldn't deem filing a patent in hanar space impossible, under the same restrictions as the military patent in SA space. *shrugs*
So they know how to build a Dyson Sphere but they don't know how to build one fast?
I think you underestimate the scale of such an undertaking, even with supertech. You have to literally dismantle planets to do this, and the dismantling is just to get at the delicious, metal-rich core. And you do that multiple times. Or alternatively you siphon enough material off the sun till it counts as a dwarf star, use that material to build your dyson swarm, and make use of the swarm for far longer. You'd keep the planets around for now, not because you have to, but they're convenient spare parts.

I've got work tomorrow time to kill today. Any request for further omakes? I think I have at least one more in me (after that it's back to original work and other fan fiction), though it might be taken up by a last continuation of my previous two. Perhaps.
 
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The Geth have chosen not to be a von Nuemann swarm for some reason.
Probably the same reason they (mostly) chose to remain bipeds. The only way to make macro scale robots(*) a Von Neumann swarm is to make them all mining/refining/construction rigs.

Come to think of it with the cloning tech available in ME the organic races are just as capable of VNS-style expansion as the Geth. Factories to make the people, people to make the factories in a never ending cycle.

*Not sure if they have meaningful nanotech.

Are we going to go stupid super evil and trap everyone there for some weird vision?
Us? No, but there are enough crackpots running around Citadel space that someone is bound to try it once the tech is on the market.

Where were we on the whole 'child soldiers' thing?
No. That is morally reprehensible as well as politically unacceptable.

Anyway, they don't fit in the power armour. Wait till Grunt gets built if you want a child soldier.
 
Probably the same reason they (mostly) chose to remain bipeds. The only way to make macro scale robots(*) a Von Neumann swarm is to make them all mining/refining/construction rigs.

Come to think of it with the cloning tech available in ME the organic races are just as capable of VNS-style expansion as the Geth. Factories to make the people, people to make the factories in a never ending cycle.

*Not sure if they have meaningful nanotech.
nanotech is a lot harder to go von neuman than macro tech, life on earth has been trying it for eons and it's dependant on external energy.
 
So… Omake time? Omake time. This time with a name I even thought of myself! Though I'm open to suggestions.

Commercial for Revy's Clock

[BLACK SCREEN, WHITE FONT]

THIS FOOTAGE IS FOR TEST AUDIENCES ONLY.
ALL OTHER DISSEMINATION WILL BE PURSUED BY PARAGON INDUSTRY'S LEGAL DEPARTMENT.​

[BLACK SCREEN]

[CUT TO SHEPARD'S PR-OFFICE. DIAGRAMS AND CIRCUITS IN THE BACKGROUND SHOW BLUEPRINTS OF ARC REACTORS. A HOLOGRAM CONTINUOUSLY LOOPS THROUGH THE EXPLODING (TECHNICAL) VIEW OF THE PROTOTYPE ARC REACTOR.]

[DR SHEPARD IS STANDING IN THE MIDDLE OF THE ROOM]

SHEPARD: We at Paragon Industries are well known for our technical expertise across a wide variety of technologies.

[CUT TO DISPLAY OF VIEW OF PYNDA FRIGATE PASSING CLOSE BY THE CAMERA]

[CUT TO RAPID BUILDING OF A FULLY EQUIPPED HOUSE IN A BARREN LANDSCAPE.]

[CUT TO THE CLOSE UP OF AN ARC REACTOR, SLOWLY ZOOMING OUT UNTIL ALL OF THE REACTOR IS IN VIEW. THE REACTOR'S WELL-KNOWN GLOW CHANGES COLOUR.]

[CUT TO SHEPARD IN PR-OFFICE. SHE WALKS AS SHE TALKS, GESTICULATING.]

SHEPARD: Despite our contributions in less martial fields, many see us as warmongers for our close ties to the Systems Alliance's military-industrial complex.

[SHEPARD FACES THE CAMERA. CLOSE UP OF FACE.]

SHEPARD: Nothing could be further from the truth. I'm a humanist at heart, and therefore so is PI.

[SHEPARD CONTINUES HER PREVIOUS WALK. CAMERA FOLLOWS HER AS SHE WALKS INTO PREVIOUSLY UNSEEN PARTS OF THE FRAME. A PATIENT IN A WHITE HOSPITAL GOWN IS SEATED IN A FLOATING WHEELCHAIR. THE PATIENT IS LOOKING AT THEIR ARM IN WONDER, SHAKES IT.]

CAPTION UNDER PATIENT: DUCHENNE MUSCULAR DYSTROPHY — EXTREMELY WEAK MUSCLES. EXPECTANCY OF LIFE BEFORE TREATMENT: 32 YEARS — AFTER TREATMENT: 97 YEARS

SHEPARD: We have spearheaded efforts to end suffering for illnesses previously incurable, and made them widely available, and effort that would have been unthinkable without the Sirta Foundation's cooperation.

[SHEPARD CONTINUES HER WALK AND TALK. THE PATIENT LEAVES THE FRAME AS THE CAMERA FOLLOWS SHEPARD. SHE COMES TO A STOP AT A WOODEN DESK. IT IS EMPTY EXCEPT FOR ONE CUBICAL DEVICE.]

SHEPARD: But we don't like to rest on our laurels. We therefore present this little beauty to all audiences.

[SHEPARD PICKS UP THE DEVICE. IT'S A CLOCK, CUBICAL, ABOUT SIX INCHES TO A SIDE. IT HAS ONE ANALOGUE CLOCK FACE.]

SHEPARD: This clock looks like a novelty item, and for many it will turn out to be. Personally, though? I like to think of it as a better Rubik's Cube that's a fair bit harder to figure out. To put our money where our mouth is, I'm also starting a… let's call it a competition. The first dozen people able to figure out how this clock works are entitled to a million credits each.

SHEPARD: You may pry it open by force and use whatever tools you think would help, as long as you are able to provide instructions to repeat your possible success in solving this puzzle.

SHEPARD: And to mitigate any worries about the possible danger about this toy, rest assured: it is certified for use by kids six and older.

[SHEPARD TURNS HER ATTENTION TO THE CLOCK. SHE BEGINS FIDDLING WITH IT.]

SHEPARD (mumbling): Now where was I with this?

[WHILE SHEPARD TINKERS WITH THE CLOCK, WHITE LETTERS ARE SUPERIMPOSED ON THE SCENE.]

THE CONDITIONS FOR 'REVY'S CLOCK COMPETITION' APPLY
AS WRITTEN ON THE PARAGON INDUSTRIES EXTRANET SITE.
THE COMPETITION IS OPEN TO ANY MEMBER OF ANY SPECIES,
INCLUDING EMPLOYEES OF PARAGON INDUSTRIES AND SUBSIDIARIES.
YES, THIS MEANS WE DIDN'T CRACK THIS PROBLEM OURSELVES.

YET.​

[CUT TO BLACK]

————————

Just wanted to put this out there. Also, I have never read a single TV or movie script and cobbled this design together with impressions formed by popcultural osmosis.
 
Random tinkerer: I've figured out how the clock works!
Second person:Really how?
RT:You know how some theories postulate time and space are really the same thing?
SP:Yes?
RT:Exactly.
 
Was doing some thinking about the atom drones and their structural integrity fields. If applied to a warship, it could be used to hold the ship together after suffering battle damage. If used in conjunction with hypermodular construction, you could rebuild a warship without a space dock, given enough time and energy. While it might be too dangerous to apply while at war with other species, it would be an invaluable asset in the impending Reaper War, where secure dockyards will be at a premium. It's something to think about, at least.
 
Revy's Clock:

Reaper Fleet 7: "Whoo! We made it! WE ACTUALLY MADE IT!!!"
Reaper com net: *wild chatter, congratulations etc, most of the other fleets grumbling good-naturedly*
Random reaper: "Could we get an agent to set up an embassy or shop or something close to a SI office so we can lobby for more of this kind of thing?"
Reapers: "Hmmmm......"

And this was how Saren became known as the spokesman for the Dark Matter hacker & gamer coalition, who even a century later was composed almost entirely of AI's of various stripes.
 
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The downside (or is it?) is a bit more complex RP point assignments.
I think this is the biggest problem I'm having with all the proposals so far. I mean, we just eliminated dice pool allocations because people found them too complicated, and now most of the research alternatives involve creating a second dimension of complexity, by either making categories more important and introducing multipliers as @Yog, or introducing a second point-buy to every research item as @macdjord.

I think that, before we start discussing specific mechanics, we should start by brainstorming the goals of any new research system. What parts of the current system do we want to eliminate? What new features do we want in a new system? I think we'd be best served by phrasing these as "User stories", formatted like: "As a [player/GM], I want [some feature] so that [some reason].", like @Hoyr's:

"As a GM, I want research to be more hero dependent, so I have more control over how research is gained/lost."
 
Revvy always yes!

Can someone write an omake with Revy once again playing multiplayer with Garrus and dominating like she previously did?

I'm thinking her avatar could be perhaps a really cheesy 'knight of science', displaying mad-science and chivalry by donning something like a lab-coat+ nerd glasses but with gleaming and futuristic-looking armor underneath and a weapon that glows like an arc reactor. She'd also have really wild hair, like Einstein.

I want to see more scenes of Revy having fun and enjoying herself, and I'd also like to see more of Garrus, so I think this would be appropriate.
 
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Oh, I forgot to vote.

[X] Send other forces (High Risk, 20% Costs as Profit)
-[X] 25% of ParSec's forces
-[X] Andrew Nicholas
-[X] Ithix
[X] Stay (Low Risk, Low Profit)
-[X] One-third of forces stay (~25% of total ground forces) 224 Million
[X] Guard Colonies (Medium Risk, Medium Profit)
-[X] Deploy Half (50%) of ParSec's forces 750 million/quarter.
-[X] Jelica Eveliina
Andrew wants a chance to help redefine doctrine. He has the skills to pull it off and leave the SA with something really good. And Ithix is fairly well-suited to the space fighting the SA will be doing.

As for force distributions, colony defense is a topic near and dear to Revy's heart, and plays into her public persona as well. To be honest, the 25% sent to the SA is mostly to justify Andrew's presence there.
 
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[X] Send other forces (High Risk, 20% Costs as Profit)
-[X] 25% of ParSec's forces
-[X] Andrew Nicholas
-[X] Ithix
[X] Stay (Low Risk, Low Profit)
-[X] One-third of forces stay (~25% of total ground forces) 224 Million
[X] Guard Colonies (Medium Risk, Medium Profit)
-[X] Deploy Half (50%) of ParSec's forces 750 million/quarter.
-[X] Jelica Eveliina
 
I'm cool with sending Andrew to war.

[X] Send other forces (High Risk, 20% Costs as Profit)
-[X] 25% of ParSec's forces
-[X] Andrew Nicholas
-[X] Ithix
[X] Stay (Low Risk, Low Profit)
-[X] One-third of forces stay (~25% of total ground forces) 224 Million
[X] Guard Colonies (Medium Risk, Medium Profit)
-[X] Deploy Half (50%) of ParSec's forces 750 million/quarter.
-[X] Jelica Eveliina
 
[X] Send other forces (High Risk, 20% Costs as Profit)
-[X] 25% of ParSec's forces
-[X] Andrew Nicholas
-[X] Ithix
[X] Stay (Low Risk, Low Profit)
-[X] One-third of forces stay (~25% of total ground forces) 224 Million
[X] Guard Colonies (Medium Risk, Medium Profit)
-[X] Deploy Half (50%) of ParSec's forces 750 million/quarter.
-[X] Jelica Eveliina
I already voted but I want to include what commanders I want
 
Okay that was a nice four hours of math! Time for something different in the... math heavy quest I run... hopefully no one asked math heavy questions?

I seem to remember it being mentioned that mech could be used to massively enhance biotics thanks to their shape. Is the QM going to follow through on that?

Yes, I believe so.

@vyor: If I were designing a quest like this, what I'd do is split 'Research Points' into two things:

Interesting. Not sure if I'd want to do this at this point but interesting.

Commercial for Revy's Clock

More omakes!

Okay so the biggest issue with handing out Research heroes is that while it is an extra character to use it's also handing out a ton of RP. The standard exchange rate is 50RP per omake. A research hero as is is ~=65RP per quarter + extra. That's a lot. Even dropping that... it adds up over time. I may prefer giving out non-RP rewards, but this is effectively an RP reward and more... yeah.

I do like the omakes, but I just feel that's not a precedent I want to set directly. Some thing like I did before whe an omake was traded in for, "Tali will cross paths with Revy/PI sometime in the future and be recruited at that time" is about as far as I'm willing to go, sorry.

Well that and people have avoided hiring aliens for the general teams for a while now.

Sorry but something else would be better. Idea, since two of those omakes were about investigating how about I answer a question for each. Something that I normally wouldn't answer. If it information I really want to keep secret answer you could ask a different one.

Not sure about the last one though. I guess as always RP is on the table.

I think that, before we start discussing specific mechanics, we should start by brainstorming the goals of any new research system. What parts of the current system do we want to eliminate? What new features do we want in a new system? I think we'd be best served by phrasing these as "User stories", formatted like: "As a [player/GM], I want [some feature] so that [some reason].", like @Hoyr's:

It's like software design class all over again! :confused: Dammit I passed that... stupid user stories. :p

"As a GM, I want to throttle RP gain so that come ME1 or the Reaper Invasion players will have had to pick and choose which techs they'll have. "
"As a GM, I want research to be more hero dependent, so I have more control over how research is gained/lost."
"As a GM, I want ways to likely break up player mono-focus. Preferably subtle so that the players won't notice or avoid it. :)"
"As GM, I want to be able to stop imposing arbitrary limits to stop poorly designed systems from running away."
"As GM, I want the system to be simple enough that the barrier to entry is low."

Edit: Oh and the vote is called.
 
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