Just checking but your doing a search by author and limiting it to the per threads right? That should cut out a lot of clutter.
Shepard Quest Mk VI, Technological Revolution
- Thread starter Hoyr
- Start date
Just checking but your doing a search by author and limiting it to the per threads right? That should cut out a lot of clutter.
Yep that's exactly what I'm doing.
Best of Luck man.
My brain kept picking at this, so I feel like I have to write this down even if it's probably way too far into the quest to change to it. My take on an alternative research system:
Every hero comes with a unique tech tree. Each given tech on that tree would take them some period of time (usually a couple years) to research. Attaching a fully equipped lab, research team, AI, etc might half the total time, but there's no way to speed it up more than that.
Some techs can be researched by multiple heroes. Some may even require collaboration to become available.
This way, we actually reduce the number of tech choices per quarter (1 choice per free research hero, with a limited number of options for each of those). We'd be researching multiple techs in parallel, but Hoyr would only need to do write ups on the techs that finished, which would also give him a reason to visit each of our heroes periodically.
Our research speed is predictable, and adding new research heroes will add new fields, instead of just helping us get farther in the select fields we choose.
Revy is special because she has a larger tech tree than most, and the time it would take her to finish any project is shorter than other heroes who have the same project. She would also have the most "requires collaboration" techs.
For production:
Instead of the (very complicated) network of factory buildings and research teams and whatnot we have now, we can abstract away most of the business side. Each tech has X potential profit per quarter, which decreases over the course of a few years. Realizing that profit requires a location to put the design teams and factories, and some cash up front. Each planet can only host so many facilities, and business deals and politicking can increase or decrease the profit of a tech.
Our profits would be capped by the number of techs we've created recently, since techs a few years old would probably have to deal with copycats or competition from our own newer products. As techs become less profitable, we can retool our facilities to exploit the profits of newer technologies.
Every hero comes with a unique tech tree. Each given tech on that tree would take them some period of time (usually a couple years) to research. Attaching a fully equipped lab, research team, AI, etc might half the total time, but there's no way to speed it up more than that.
Some techs can be researched by multiple heroes. Some may even require collaboration to become available.
This way, we actually reduce the number of tech choices per quarter (1 choice per free research hero, with a limited number of options for each of those). We'd be researching multiple techs in parallel, but Hoyr would only need to do write ups on the techs that finished, which would also give him a reason to visit each of our heroes periodically.
Our research speed is predictable, and adding new research heroes will add new fields, instead of just helping us get farther in the select fields we choose.
Revy is special because she has a larger tech tree than most, and the time it would take her to finish any project is shorter than other heroes who have the same project. She would also have the most "requires collaboration" techs.
For production:
Instead of the (very complicated) network of factory buildings and research teams and whatnot we have now, we can abstract away most of the business side. Each tech has X potential profit per quarter, which decreases over the course of a few years. Realizing that profit requires a location to put the design teams and factories, and some cash up front. Each planet can only host so many facilities, and business deals and politicking can increase or decrease the profit of a tech.
Our profits would be capped by the number of techs we've created recently, since techs a few years old would probably have to deal with copycats or competition from our own newer products. As techs become less profitable, we can retool our facilities to exploit the profits of newer technologies.
- Location
- Low Earth Orbit
A research hero based system…
Well, doesn't the saying go "invention is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration"? I figure research heroes have a ratio more like 5:95, and Revy's is about 20:80. Research heroes' bottle necks lay in their ability to accomplish the perspiration parts, and that's where laboratories come into play.
Say, a research hero makes 25 RP per quarter. With a small lab helping them, it goes up to +50, medium lab +150, big lab +250. There can only ever be one lab per research hero. The drawbacks are, labs and people don't scale that well, so in a big lab work will be done less effectively than in a small lab. Many cooks and such.
Revy is kind of the exception (100 RP), since she's got more inspiration to go around. She can have more labs assigned to her, but with increasingly lower efficacy. First big lab will be +250 RP, second big lab +190, third big lab +100, fourth big lab +30.
Labs without research heroes would produce less RP since they have less inspiration, something like… small +25, medium + 100, big + 175. Dunno, you may want to fiddle with that.
Another idea would be splitting research into inspired and drudge work. Research heroes provide 1-2 inspiration points, Revy 5, and the RP would be basically remain the same. Iterations of improvement on tech, essentially mark n+1, would be less heavy in IP, but wholly new research would have more IP and less drudge work that could be relegated to regular scientists.
Well, doesn't the saying go "invention is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration"? I figure research heroes have a ratio more like 5:95, and Revy's is about 20:80. Research heroes' bottle necks lay in their ability to accomplish the perspiration parts, and that's where laboratories come into play.
Say, a research hero makes 25 RP per quarter. With a small lab helping them, it goes up to +50, medium lab +150, big lab +250. There can only ever be one lab per research hero. The drawbacks are, labs and people don't scale that well, so in a big lab work will be done less effectively than in a small lab. Many cooks and such.
Revy is kind of the exception (100 RP), since she's got more inspiration to go around. She can have more labs assigned to her, but with increasingly lower efficacy. First big lab will be +250 RP, second big lab +190, third big lab +100, fourth big lab +30.
Labs without research heroes would produce less RP since they have less inspiration, something like… small +25, medium + 100, big + 175. Dunno, you may want to fiddle with that.
Another idea would be splitting research into inspired and drudge work. Research heroes provide 1-2 inspiration points, Revy 5, and the RP would be basically remain the same. Iterations of improvement on tech, essentially mark n+1, would be less heavy in IP, but wholly new research would have more IP and less drudge work that could be relegated to regular scientists.
- Location
- Germany
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I like that approach. Add 'needs a research hero to do basic research', and assign techs 'applied' and 'basic' tags. For example, new FTL requires basic research, (and the outcome may be 'not in this universe') and would require a research hero (like Einstein). Powered Armor Mk2, mechs etc. are applied research, because you don't need to discover new laws of physics to do so. For that type of research, a research hero is not required, but also provides above-mentioned bonuses.
You should. Even in canon there were characters who thought the Asari republics could build a Relay if they were motivated to actually put the effort in.
The basic tech already existed even before canon, as evidenced by the fact that comm. relays are explicitly just very small Mass Relays without the fancy armour and Reaper software.
Given the new power generation and materials we have already introduced and the resulting economic boom new Relays are almost certain to be a thing whether we personally build them or not.
Why would they want a mobile planet?
That said there are very likely to be doing something productive.
As I already pointed out they are probably making their own Arc Reactors, at least in limited numbers. I would not be at all surprised to see their fleet be in significantly better condition in a decade, especially if they get their hands on the fuel-less engines we plan to introduce.
As Nya isn't part of either setting I would agree.Doesn't mean I don't worry about The Mandarin turning up to screw with us if the GM thinks it would enhance the quest.
At what point did I indicate it would be 'a mid-level challenge'?
The GM introducing something that cripples the majority of our production is, more or less by definition, a major difficulty spike.
Your argument is invalidated by the simple fact that all existing defences are rapidly becoming obsolete to the point of worthlessness.
The only way we can heavily defend our stuff is if we build those defences ourselves. We can do that anywhere.
Exists in a single-planet environment with tech limitations ME does not have. The conditions are too dissimilar for useful comparison.
This will be an issue regardless of how concentrated or decentralised said facilities are.
Putting everything in one place means a single loss is crippling.
So what? We are already powerful enough to tell the government to take a hike. Even ignoring the possibility of threatening to shift our focus to supplying the other Citadel races.
Come to think of it if you are looking for the safest place to build factories then we should be trying for Palaven, not Earth.
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Hmm, ok, let's see:"As a GM, I want to throttle RP gain so that come ME1 or the Reaper Invasion players will have had to pick and choose which techs they'll have. "
"As a GM, I want research to be more hero dependent, so I have more control over how research is gained/lost."
"As a GM, I want ways to likely break up player mono-focus. Preferably subtle so that the players won't notice or avoid it.
"As GM, I want to be able to stop imposing arbitrary limits to stop poorly designed systems from running away."
"As GM, I want the system to be simple enough that the barrier to entry is low."
1) Have each hero have a capacity. Either in terms of total RP or number of labs managed. Heroes are (automatically or manually) assigned labs. Once the lab is assigned it can't be reassigned for a given amount of time. Those labs assigned to certain heroes get hero multipliers (say, X10 for Revy, X5 for Mordin or something like that). Unassigned labs generate small amount of research, but not much.
You can make the capacity or the bonus variable based on plot, dice rolls and such. Fiddle with bonuses and penalties for heroes working together.
2) Put in penalties for overfocusing. For example, if we have a 400 RP project, and we put in 300 RP this turn, the project receives 300 RP. If we put in 400 RP, the project gets something like 0.8*400=320 RP, so we'll have to put in 600 points (because at 500 the penalty will be 0.75 or something like that). This stimulates diversification, while still allowing mono-focus in time of need. In game terms it models how, past certain point, pouring more resources into a project runs into diminishing returns.
- Location
- Pale Blue Dot
However, placing it somewhere where we insist on paying the whole bill ourselves is silly. And there is a war going on, so having defences around while we build our facilities is a good start, unless we want to give our stuff to Batarian raiders, of course.
True. However, having for example three locations? Not so bad. Mindoir is the main one, but taking advantage of the work shortage and massive availability of manpower in the Sol system sounds like a good idea.
True. Sadly, that's also political suicide as things stand right now. There's a reason we're trying to give aliens chances to prove they are not all bad.
A fair point. Earth is a good starting expansion because it is cheap and (currently) well defended. But this war isn't going to last more than a year or two and there is only so much 'low hanging fruit' on Earth.
Devil is in the details. Generally I would prefer to not have more than 25-30% of our stuff in any given location.
Humm… can we build factories on the Citadel itself? In a few years the SA is going to start making noises about joining the council. Showing that a human megacorp is willing to expand out of the human sphere of influence might help that along.
Something to keep in mind.
- Location
- Germany
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Also about Turians: could we spin kind of a joint (civil) research initiative based on Palaven, for example geriatrics? We could establish ourselves in the greater galaxy as hiring aliens, prehaps luring research heros, and influence the galactic opinion. If we open factories on earth in parallel, we also placate the 'humanity first' guys, and for the negative 'alien lover' press we get we could point to that.
And if the Reaper threat becomes more of common knowledge, we are there to consolidate research efforts.
And if the Reaper threat becomes more of common knowledge, we are there to consolidate research efforts.
- Location
- Pale Blue Dot
Politically... well, not quite suicide, but not far off, either. Crippling? Of course, there is also the fact that such a location would be prime spy material for the council races. To be honest, a well-defended Asari world that has joined the war on humanitys side would by comparison just be politically problematic, as opposed to crippling.
OOC, of course, I would say "Hell no!" to putting anything on the Citadel, considering it's built by Reapers and secretly run by the Catalyst - genocidal AI that at best work with the Reapers, at worst made the first Reapers. Do note that the Catalyst's minions run around and remodel the Citadel at will, and there are very strict laws in place protecting them and their rights to do so. Basically, if we set up a factory on the Citadel, we're giving stuff to the Reapers for free.
The Hanar are currently changing their economy for the sole purpose of building an anti-reaper fleet. The Extinguishers, to be exact, but that's just another name for Reapers. And we're popular there for helping them out with missile ships for that purpose. Was there something about Shepard having become a saint in the Enklindler religion for having found, decoded and spread Protean film clips about them and their end on the hands of the Extinguishers? Sponsoring Liara's dig paid off there. Hanar space would probably be a good option for alien expansion, once that comes on the table. And very much a group that is religiously motivated to assist when it comes to finding ways to eliminate the newly discovered 'devils' of their state religion.
Actually, asking the Hanar about what they have found out so far is probably an idea. Protean ruins exist, their walls and structures are known quantities with known strengths for comparison, even a short clip with Reapers attacking should give a lot of info about the minimum capabilities of the Reapers when a race as a whole do their best to dig up every single sliver of information that can be wrung out from that clip about the Reapers strengths, capabilities, tactics and weaknesses.
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- Location
- Germany
- Pronouns
- He/Him
The Hanar already gives us an 'in', but I'd like to have infrastructure available with the big three, that can be quickly retooled/expanded to counter the Reaper threat. And I'd like to have the foundations of that laid as soon as possible, so we are already established when it becomes necessary. And after the QM changes and the how well-liked the original 'solution' of ME3 was I wouldn't count on the deus ex being available in this quest (or, more specifically, I hope it is not).
Now there is an idea.
How about building a shipyard next to it? (With tons of integrated defences of course. Also mind shields.) Have it dedicated to making civilian ships rather than military vessels or other sensitive stuff. Probably need the no-fuel and no-discharge tech to justify it but it would help move everyone off being tied to the Relay network.
- Location
- Pale Blue Dot
Suuure. Because that helps so much if some or all the workers gets mindcontrolled in secret while they live on the Citadel. And of course it would give the Catalyst a lot of raw data from scans. Better than the FUBAR idea of a factory on the citadel, but... Why do you want to take this chance? Seriously?
That reminds me: The Mind Shields. Yes, we need them RIGHT NOW. It would also be a very good thing if it gives the user a quiet alarm when it actually stops stuff. After all, we do know that protean stuff can do mindbending, and knowing about what exactly does so means the dangerous stuff can be kept under lock and key. Reasonable, yes?
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- Location
- Germany
- Pronouns
- He/Him
If you can have the Arc reactors in the factories go critical and utterly destroy the Citadel I could try to convince myself that there was a reason to build factories there.
- Location
- Somewhere over the rainbow
Blowing up the Citadel Relay for great justice?
Good luck.
Good luck.
- Location
- Germany
- Pronouns
- He/Him
More to stop the Reapers getting easy access to the galaxy.
Because like it or not the Citadel is the political heart of the galaxy. Even the unaligned and Terminus systems are moved and shaken by what happens on the Citadel. A presence there gives us immense leverage, more than having a presence on every home and capitol world in Citadel space.
Additionally having a presence there gives us an excuse to run tests and potentially 'discover' the AI and Reaper tech.
- Location
- nowhere
the most I would ever want to see on the citadel would be an office/store or a shopping kiosk where orders can be placed where there is nothing of a classified nature in the computers. there is no real mineral wealth near the citadel and it(the citadel) has to import everything so that is another way that a factory there would be problematic it would double or triple the cost of what we built in that factory. then take into account how little space there actually is on the citadel means that rent/purchase prices would be just this side of Obscene.
Goddammit don't give him any idea you fool. We already barrely avoided death by lasers sorely due to the fact that the Reapers want to turn us into the core of their latest member, having a freaking Mandarin equivalent is the last thing we need while our armor is stuck at its current level.
That would work pretty well actually. Doesn't even need to sell anything, just be a glorified showroom and advertising centre. With power armoured guards as decorations.
Well that is easy to solve. We just build our own Citadel
- Location
- Germany
- Pronouns
- He/Him
You mean, we build a nice cozy space station where we park Citadel in the 3rd auxiliary hangar?
Here's a fun little factoid from my WoG compilation that's relevant to the current discussion:
WoG Compilation: Thread 4 said: