Plus with the help of Mordin we just invented the means of modifying the whole biosphere of any world to make it suitable for colonization, also in 3 months.
For the record humans are currently capable of modifying biospheres and we have been doing so since the industrial revolution. Longer if you subscribe to the Hunted to Death theories for why only Africa has Megafauna these days. This tech made it predictable. It did not give us the capacity for something new or any extreme or rapid changes.
Ok, this is maybe because I´m a new reader that has finished reading the quest a few days ago, but I am a reader of Sci-Fi literature, I know the scale between hard and soft science fiction works. And seeing this discussion there is something that bothers me, and it is much deeper than the Mech vs Tank duel.
I´m going to use the scale that appears in Tvtropes.
Knowing this, we have two basic Sci-fi elements in this quest, Mass Effect setting, and Revy
1. Mass Effect never had a Hard Sci-fi setting, on the contrary, it´s at best a soft-medium Space Opera, the universe place in this scale is between 2 and 3, there is too much Element Zero gimmicks to fully enter in the Physics Plus realm, It´s true that this is somehow toned down in the quest, but it´s still a between the second and the third tier.
2. Revy is basically a female Tony Stark, and the living application of Clarke´s Third Law, she is undoubtedly a character of the first tier, and her scientistic genius allows her to do literally magic from science. Her superpower is to bend the laws of reality through the power of science.
I think both can agree with with these statements up to this point.
The thing is that I can´t understand how adding to a setting that is already soft-medium science fiction like Mass Effect, an element that is clearly from a lower tier like Revy, we can get Hard Sci-fi.
In my opinion, to think that we are in anything similar to a Hard Sci-fi setting in this quest is a mere delusion because in a Hard Sci-fi setting a character like Revy couldn´t be possible.
Ok that´s all which I wanted to say, maybe it´s because as I said I´m new to this quest, but I can´t understand why we are trying to go Hard Sci-Fi in a setting that is not Hard Sci-fi and with a character whose mere existence would be impossible in a hard Sci-fi setting.
Most of this is correct, and is very similar to what I posted earlier, however you are falling into the fallacy of believing because two things can be described with the same tag anything labeled with that tag must contain both of them. There are many tropes that can be applied to equivalently soft or hard science settings however just because we are softer than a certain threshold does not mean that all equally hard or harder tropes automatically apply.
Irony? Using a scale to prove a point about the softness of Mass Effect, then there's an entry about mass effect under category 4. Which makes it relatively hard, despite the widespread use of physics weirdness.
Irony? Using a scale to prove a point about the softness of Mass Effect, then there's an entry about mass effect under category 4. Which makes it relatively hard, despite the widespread use of physics weirdness.
That is an extremely generous interpretation of the category 4. Sorry but I can´t accept that a setting bases all its futuristic stuff in an element with magic properties like the Element Zero, and fit in that category.
This is basically the same as the use of the Spice in Dune, and the saga is considered as one of the referents of Soft Sci-fi.
Also, we're basing Revy off of movie-Tony, rather than comics-Tony, so no technomagic, no telekinetic Arc Reactors, no enhancements to Extremis that make you a technopath, etc etc. Yes, she's smarter than basically anyone in human history (except possibly Hero of Alexandria, who came close to kicking off the Industrial Revolution in Ancient Greece), and is a ridiculously good lab manager to boot, but is definitely not a Spark.
Given that we don't plan on stopping or even slowing down anytime soon, maybe you should be considering where Revy will be and what she will be doing in an in-game year from now when trying to figure out how brainbendingly smart she is?
Don't be so pessimistic my friend. If we could send a man to the moon with a slide ruler, I think we can manage to keep this pointless argument from taking up any more of our time.
Anyway... just read the entire darn thing, nice quest, nice story, hoping it will go well for the main character, fully realize that an update might well not happen until next year.
We need to come up with shorthand for all these arguments, especially the ones that have been refuted dozens of times now like all the mech stuff, and the Geth/Quarians, and the Genophage. That way one person can just say "4!", four people can reply "12, 13, 57," and we'd be done until the next time someone trots them back up in three or four months.
We need to come up with shorthand for all these arguments, especially the ones that have been refuted dozens of times now like all the mech stuff, and the Geth/Quarians, and the Genophage. That way one person can just say "4!", four people can reply "12, 13, 57," and we'd be done until the next time someone trots them back up in three or four months.
Put them on a 'FAQ' page. Or create one FAQ per recurring discussion. Of course, that would just mean that the discussion devolves to 'haven't you read the FAQ' followed by 'but I have a new point, there is nothing about green mechs on the FAQ'!
honestly we might as well just ask the gm to strip mechs off the techtree, or replace them with something else. My understanding is that the GM who put them there was planing on running a softer story than the one now, so if we built them under the present gm they would be impractical. We could replace the mech line with a "heavy power armor" line where we start pushing the bounds of just how large we can make power armor before it starts becoming impractical.
Right now all its serving to do is spark arguments and imply that the quest is a bit softer than it actually is.
edit: they branch off of ground vehicles, maybe insteads of heavy power armor they could represent an alternative design philosophy? Maybe something like using neural links, predictive software and high speed to use evasion for survivability? it would fit the mech philophy of needing bulshit level skills to get the most out of it while being a bit more practical.
Hey, would it be possible to make something like a civilian "powered frame" type thing? Something for construction, heavy lifting, mining, and maybe exo-atmospheric work.
Hey, would it be possible to make something like a civilian "powered frame" type thing? Something for construction, heavy lifting, mining, and maybe exo-atmospheric work.
I kinda think that's pretty much what the first Rank of Mech is supposed to be. It's supposed to be a bit larger than Guyver to make it a bit distinct from pure power armor.
I think Rank One mech is supposed to be about the size of the Power Loader from Aliens.
Can we simply have the mechs be turned to researching robotics. After all having robots of that size would be a useful technology. They just won't be human shaped.
Can we simply have the mechs be turned to researching robotics. After all having robots of that size would be a useful technology. They just won't be human shaped.
The issue with some of these suggestions is that mechs (for given definitions of mech) are ... somewhat canon? Noticeably terrible beyond fitting in places tanks won't (loading bays full of stuff, etc.) and being able to carry more armour and heavier weapons than infantry, and probably rendered entirely obsolete by our power armour, but still, a thing.
The issue with some of these suggestions is that mechs (for given definitions of mech) are ... somewhat canon? Noticeably terrible beyond fitting in places tanks won't (loading bays full of stuff, etc.) and being able to carry more armour and heavier weapons than infantry, and probably rendered entirely obsolete by our power armour, but still, a thing.
The issue with some of these suggestions is that mechs (for given definitions of mech) are ... somewhat canon? Noticeably terrible beyond fitting in places tanks won't (loading bays full of stuff, etc.) and being able to carry more armour and heavier weapons than infantry, and probably rendered entirely obsolete by our power armour, but still, a thing.
Well, that's true and upgrading mechs to work with Paragon Industries technology would make them viable again.
In exactly the same situations they were viable before Paragon broke the tech scale. And in those cases, quite frankly, they are a pain in the butt to deal with without heavier weapons, but that's why you have SAWs and heavy missile launchers attached to your infantry forces anyway.
And we've got tank killing drone swarms that out maneuver mechs and can just plain overwhelm them with numbers from every angle and can hide among the crats, containers, corridors and air vents for the advantage of surprise. Nope, mechs are still not very viable in confined spaces, and the standard ParSec/SA Marines method of dealing with confined spaces is probably going to be 'send in the drones first.' You either flush out the enemy or find their positions for Legionaries to deal with.
Comic is nice but...
Compare ME tanks to ME mechs. The mechs' main utility is being a heavier unit than infantry which fits in places where ME tank-type vehicles would be too long or wide, or have trouble with sharp corners in confined spaces (mechs can lead with their guns around corners, tanks, not so much), that sort of thing. ME doesn't Have tanks that small and agile (yet).
I'd also argue that the validity of calling those SM ... thingies... tanks is questionable. They actually come closer to being power armour... or arguably mechs (the flight and size invalidate 'tank', the lack of legs (and probably size) invalidates 'mech', and the arms being waldos while no legs exist at all invalidates power armour. )
... Arguably they're CAS focused aerospace vehicles... which... don't really have a good name yet. (technically that'd make them Bombers, though that's clearly wrong too.)
Anyway, kind of pointless because, like I said, I was talking about canon mechs in the canon situation. In canon they served a specific purpose better than anything else did, for all that they were still bad at it (for the main reasons mechs are always bad: big target, man portable weapons much cheaper than them utterly ruin their day). In quest our power armour has already outstripped their capabilities.
(the flight and size invalidate 'tank', the lack of legs (and probably size) invalidates 'mech', and the arms being waldos while no legs exist at all invalidates power armour. )