Shepard Quest Mk VI, Technological Revolution

[Revya Alt.Zero]

Generally such unwillingness to face reality despite all evidence is considered insanity or stupidity.

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You can have your opinion, but YOU ARE NOT THE GM, what will and will not work is up to them.

Taking risks usually tells you something useful even if its bad news.

As for the insanity/stupidity comment, you probably been told that yourself, so I won't say anything.

I'm not doing this to insult, but as I said before it wouldn't be there if it wasn't useful.

So don't dismiss something, just because you don't believe in it, even if you don't like it.

That's all I want to say.

 

[shade argost]

1. I'm sure refers to having manipulator arms that can grab weapons. This is a really bad idea for any weapon that has recoil, as opposed to just mounting the thing on a turret at center mass, so you're essentially pre-limiting yourself to only using lasers. Humans use held weapons not because they are better, but because that's the least worst option for them.

2. Only really applies to small mechs, meaning power armor. Once you get to 5 meters or so mechs become a bad idea in every civilian application, because:

3. Mechs have both an extremely high center of mass and a small contact patch with the ground. Not only does this mean that your mech provides a huge cross sectional area for the enemy to target, and major difficulties with recoil compensation, but the tiny contact patch means that you will be shattering nearly all possible construction materials, including reinforced concrete, and sinking into the ground with every step, limiting wartime mobility and destroying road infrastructure in peacetime. Compensating with a neg ME core just makes the recoil problem even worse, and means that you're spending more money, eezo and space on compensating for poor design decisions rather than better weapons and shields.

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Have a look at the world of Xenoblade X and tell me where Tanks would be better tools, you need to walk in the mechs to reach a half of the places and it often involves jumping, other than that they use them in the civilian sector for a lot of things, from moving heavy loads in narrow spaces to holding pieces in place while doing spot welds to shifting broken materials out of the way, generally things that they would need a crane to do which would take a more space and still not be as accurate.

Not to mention the field roles where each mech caries nearly a dozen different weapon systems or caries support items.

If Mechs were viable weapons systems we'd have had some by now. As it is they are just too complicated and vulnerable for the protection and weapons they offer compared to a wheeled or tracked vehicle.

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Yes mechs are complex, you need to program in the range of motion and its limits for each individual joint, admittedly easier than power armour where you also need to account for the squishes limbs, you need to figure out where to put the pilot and sensor systems and what not, you need to master the balancing system that humans use (which we are only just getting into with our robots) and a whole slew of other things that need to be done that will mean it will be a while before we can do in IRL.

 

[Lord Death]

i have yet more intresting yet probably throw away points about possible mech uses.
This time for space combat. Think about it how usful would they be if you could just land on the hull of a ship and start destroying things or hell they could get into and lock down fighter or troop bays with relative ease once inside. If you get things right they could even latch onto hostile fighters and not need to wast ammo on killing them. Or simply using them as a shield.

And for Mechs on the ground vs tanks. Tanks can't dodge they can't clmb for long periods and they can't refit there 'main' weapon in a handfull of seconds. But what do i know. We're talking about viability of mechs in a universe that has gravity space magic.

On the note of the EZero 'infused' armor. The main armor could be non-conductive but each partical is maped and linked together by conduits of conductive metal that are built into the main plate. Hell the stuff will probably be made using some sort of 3D printer with calculated points for EZero placement for best effect.

 

[TheEyes]

Have a look at the world of Xenoblade X and tell me where Tanks would be better tools, you need to walk in the mechs to reach a half of the places and it often involves jumping, other than that they use them in the civilian sector for a lot of things, from moving heavy loads in narrow spaces to holding pieces in place while doing spot welds to shifting broken materials out of the way, generally things that they would need a crane to do which would take a more space and still not be as accurate.

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The part you and Xenoblade X are missing is that you've got several tons of armor and weapons and fuel/etc, all balanced on those two spindly legs. What that means is that, when you take the anime goggles off, you won't be gracefully running through the plains; you'll be slogging through them like a man hip-deep in a swamp. And God help you if you try to climb an incline with that thing; you'll be causing rock-slides and avalanches everywhere.

Anyway, our tanks can fly forever, so their ability to run and jump are frankly immaterial.

Not to mention the field roles where each mech caries nearly a dozen different weapon systems or caries support items.

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Yes, in their magic anime hammerspace, each weapon with its own separate power supply rather than running off a central power plant like in a sane design.

As far as I can tell from looking at it for 10 minutes, Xenoblade X doesn't even pretend to be a realistic setting; it's a JRPG universe, with its unrealistic inventory spaces, no thoughts to maneuverability or recoil compensation or encumbrance, and general Rule of Cool trumps Verisimilitude aesthetic.

 

[shade argost]

The part you and Xenoblade X are missing is that you've got several tons of armor and weapons and fuel/etc, all balanced on those two spindly legs. What that means is that, when you take the anime goggles off, you won't be gracefully running through the plains; you'll be slogging through them like a man hip-deep in a swamp. And God help you if you try to climb an incline with that thing; you'll be causing rock-slides and avalanches everywhere.

Anyway, our tanks can fly forever, so their ability to run and jump are frankly immaterial.

Yes, in their magic anime hammerspace, each weapon with its own separate power supply rather than running off a central power plant like in a sane design.

As far as I can tell from looking at it for 10 minutes, Xenoblade X doesn't even pretend to be a realistic setting; it's a JRPG universe, with its unrealistic inventory spaces, no thoughts to maneuverability or recoil compensation or encumbrance, and general Rule of Cool trumps Verisimilitude aesthetic.

Click to shrink...

The entire mech looks to be two or three tons total and those legs aren't spindly unless you are calling HUMAN legs spindly because we are built the exact same way with about 50% of our body weight in the torso area and the Xenoblade mechs CAN'T run for shit (they do good stomping though), instead they have an alt form where they fold up into something about the size of a large van and move around on big ass wheels or treads or they frigen fly using ionic engines, and in (direct/close range) battle they are either flying or floating off the ground for more manoeuvrability.

They do try to be a bit realistic actually, IIRC you can only really change your equipment in the base area, the humans ARE ALL ROBOT PEOPLE (sorry for any spoiling people) and the Mechs use a limited number of hard points for their weapons (many of which are energy based), also their 'fuel' seems to be energy based.

Yes it is a JRPG with JRPG elements like a job/class system and increasing your health, damage and energy with levels but most of that stuff sorta happens IRL anyway, soldiers learn one or two types of weapon systems in their job/class (say a sniper) and the longer they are soldiers for the better they get at blocking/dodging, hitting and energy/stamina conservation, but then as IRL soldiers grow older their bodies start to get weaker, robot people only need maintenance to stay in top condition in the Xenoblade ones have biological matter and nano-machines inside them for basic/field maintenance/repair (you get your arm blown off at one point and need to be shut down so they don't lose your mind from inside that body).

And don't get me started on the freaking Ether stuff either, that shit is weird.

 

[Fanhunter696]

The part you and Xenoblade X are missing is that you've got several tons of armor and weapons and fuel/etc, all balanced on those two spindly legs. What that means is that, when you take the anime goggles off, you won't be gracefully running through the plains; you'll be slogging through them like a man hip-deep in a swamp. And God help you if you try to climb an incline with that thing; you'll be causing rock-slides and avalanches everywhere.

Anyway, our tanks can fly forever, so their ability to run and jump are frankly immaterial.

Yes, in their magic anime hammerspace, each weapon with its own separate power supply rather than running off a central power plant like in a sane design.

As far as I can tell from looking at it for 10 minutes, Xenoblade X doesn't even pretend to be a realistic setting; it's a JRPG universe, with its unrealistic inventory spaces, no thoughts to maneuverability or recoil compensation or encumbrance, and general Rule of Cool trumps Verisimilitude aesthetic.

Click to shrink...

My friend, I think you are seriously overestimating the "realism" of this quest, a few turns ago we literally discover how to redesign the whole genome of the human species, how to modify even a cripple man to a level that surpasses the best athletes on the planet (Captain America level basically). And Revy pulled that shit of her ass in 3 months.

How can be that in any way realistic? That alone is at a level that surpasses the Sparks of Girl Genius, Both Gil and Agatha would be amazed and frightened at the feats of Revy. (And don´t get me started with the eternal youth that we will probably get in less than a year)

So what if Mecha are unrealistic? They are not among the most irrealistic things in our tech tree. I´m sure that if we pursue that path we would end up revoluting the battlefield the same way we did with the Legionary or with the Tiger.

Plus I´m positively sure that if the GM includes the Mech Tech tree is because they are practical and useful in their own right and the GM wouldn´t give us any useless tech.

 

[AbZHz101]

Besides, it's our first step to this.

Context Sensitive Combat Operating Systems? That would revolutionize Warfare!

 

[Ramble]

I can just imagine that Revy, instead of driving, would pilot her giant robot around town.

"Here's your super duper big mac."

"Thanks" Grasping paper bag with giant robot hand.

 

[Dark as Silver]

My friend, I think you are seriously overestimating the "realism" of this quest, a few turns ago we literally discover how to redesign the whole genome of the human species, how to modify even a cripple man to a level that surpasses the best athletes on the planet (Captain America level basically). And Revy pulled that shit of her ass in 3 months.

How can be that in any way realistic? That alone is at a level that surpasses the Sparks of Girl Genius, Both Gil and Agatha would be amazed and frightened at the feats of Revy. (And don´t get me started with the eternal youth that we will probably get in less than a year)

So what if Mecha are unrealistic? They are not among the most irrealistic things in our tech tree. I´m sure that if we pursue that path we would end up revoluting the battlefield the same way we did with the Legionary or with the Tiger.

Plus I´m positively sure that if the GM includes the Mech Tech tree is because they are practical and useful in their own right and the GM wouldn´t give us any useless tech.

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There are two points that require SOD in this thread currently.

• Mass Effect Canon. Be aware that some changes have been made to reduce the SOD required.
• Revy is a genius of a level never before seen in the galaxy and is able to understand and create tech that entire civilisations have failed to achieve.

If you accept those two everything else is derived and should be able to be accepted. You are asking to add a third;

• Rule of Cool overrules conventional military wisdom and common sense.

I'm obliged to argue with you simply for the precedent it sets even if I wanted mechas.
Refer to my earlier point that the Reapers are cuttlefish and building a space shark. It might be cool, but it undermines all the established systems in the game, theres no way to anticipate it for research and all current inventions were done under harsher conditions are now at meaningless in the face of a cooler but stupider idea. Thus rendering all the work we've done to date in the quest pointless, those drones? Totally irrelevant because I've invented a dubstep canon that causes delicate electronics and earbones to spontaneously explode.

 

[newwriter]

Hey guys
I am curious about what kind of concessions can we get from the citadel races in return for an arms limitations treaty?
Because if they limits weapons that solely belong to the SA, than it will be seen as a attempt to solely limit human power thus becoming unacceptable to the SA?

 

[SirKaid]

Hey guys
I am curious about what kind of concessions can we get from the citadel races in return for an arms limitations treaty?
Because if they limits weapons that solely belong to the SA, than it will be seen as a attempt to solely limit human power thus becoming unacceptable to the SA?

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Why would they bother? The whole point of arms limitation treaties is to prevent costly arms races. At the moment there is no arms race, nor does it look like an arms race is coming, so any such treaty wouldn't be coming until at the very earliest the end of the war.

Moreover, why on Earth would we want an arms treaty at all? We're a military manufacturing company, if anything we want an arms race! When you include our player knowledge that the Reapers are coming the need for military buildup is even more pressing.

 

[TheEyes]

My friend, I think you are seriously overestimating the "realism" of this quest, a few turns ago we literally discover how to redesign the whole genome of the human species, how to modify even a cripple man to a level that surpasses the best athletes on the planet (Captain America level basically). And Revy pulled that shit of her ass in 3 months.

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First off, you need to remember that gene mods already exist in the Mass Effect universe, and did even before Earth discovered the Charon Relay; SA soldiers undergo genetic modification on a regular basis, and the wealthy have access to designer babies (though going superhuman, as was done by the father of the Lawsons, is illegal). This, frankly, is completely expected, since by that point the Human Genome Project is 160 years old and medical science is hugely advanced, even creating things like medi-gel that exist nowhere else in the galaxy. It's somewhat strange to say, but humanity seems to be one of the most advanced species in the galaxy, at least when it comes to the biological sciences. On one hand this seems really weird given how primitive and young we are as a species compared to the Salarians; on the other hand all the other species in ME seem to be far more genetically homogeneous, and don't suffer from the "easier" genetic disorders that humans fall prey to, so there was less of a need to develop those technologies in the first place.

What I'm getting at is that Revy's tech didn't create the field of gene modding; it was just an iterative improvement, combining the fields of nanotechnology and genetic modification, both of which are very mature in the ME universe. Quite frankly it's something that probably should have existed already, or certainly would in the next 50-100 years; it just required there be someone who had studied both fields well enough to combine them.

 

[Tabron89]

...Or were charitable enough to hand it over to Sirta, a charity organisation that more or less relies on investors like Revy and voluntary donations mainly to survive.

They did do low level, rubbish omnitools and hardsuits, which were mainly aimed at colonists in the first game, if I remember right.

They gave up the hardsuit line for miniturised medigel dispensers that were government contracted to fit into every hardsuit or something.

You have to jailbreak/mod their tech in ME2 in order to carry more medigel.

 

[Fanhunter696]

First off, you need to remember that gene mods already exist in the Mass Effect universe, and did even before Earth discovered the Charon Relay; SA soldiers undergo genetic modification on a regular basis, and the wealthy have access to designer babies (though going superhuman, as was done by the father of the Lawsons, is illegal). This, frankly, is completely expected, since by that point the Human Genome Project is 160 years old and medical science is hugely advanced, even creating things like medi-gel that exist nowhere else in the galaxy. It's somewhat strange to say, but humanity seems to be one of the most advanced species in the galaxy, at least when it comes to the biological sciences. On one hand this seems really weird given how primitive and young we are as a species compared to the Salarians; on the other hand all the other species in ME seem to be far more genetically homogeneous, and don't suffer from the "easier" genetic disorders that humans fall prey to, so there was less of a need to develop those technologies in the first place.

What I'm getting at is that Revy's tech didn't create the field of gene modding; it was just an iterative improvement, combining the fields of nanotechnology and genetic modification, both of which are very mature in the ME universe. Quite frankly it's something that probably should have existed already, or certainly would in the next 50-100 years; it just required there be someone who had studied both fields well enough to combine them.

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That´s true, but if you remember the numbers that we get from the guy in Noveria (in the side quest that we need to record a guys´s voice for an Asari) the upgrade % in all his offered products is between 8% and 16% of the initial capability (no one reaches the 20% threshold). That is the result of 160 years of continuous work in the genetic field of thousands of brilliant scientists. And we just created Captain America in 3 months.

Ok not exactly this, but you get my point.

Plus with the help of Mordin we just invented the means of modifying the whole biosphere of any world to make it suitable for colonization, also in 3 months.

And I'm sure that we are going to start the Eternal Youth relatively soon, and by the research points needed, we would probably get it in less than a year.

It's true that Revy didn't invent the science of genetic modding, but she has made it advance more than it could be considered to have any semblance of relative realism within the setting (If we are optimistic several centuries and a more conservative estimation would be a few millennia )this is like jumping from the Steam Engine to the Cold Fusion Reactor, or from the Crossbow to the Magnetic Accelerator Assault Rifle without any intermediate steps.

I´m only saying that most of the things Revy has achieved are not realistic or reasonable in any measure. She is such an impossible genius that she is both the incarnation Clarke´s third Law (Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic) and its inversion (Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science). She is basically a very stable Spark, that wouldn´t be out of place in Girl Genius. Forgetting this, and discard lines of research because they are "unrealistic" (when our "superpower" is to break the limits of reality through science) would be like playing Dishonored with the challenge "What A Weird Dream. Oh Well, I Guess It Was Nothing." (no magic power) funny but heavily limiting our potential options.

apart from that, I don´t really understand why to start the Mech investigation is less realistic that what we are doing right now, to me believing that investigating the Mech suit goes against the some established illusion of realism has no sense because we are breaking that illusion continuously, doing it once again it´s not going to matter so much. Especially with many of our tech tree options being much more "unrealistic" (phasing, orbital rings, planetary siege units...)

I´m not saying that we should initiate the Mecha Investigation right away, I´m just saying that it is probably going to be interesting (if it was not the GM wouldn´t have included it) and that after reading the whole quest I don´t see why starting that research path would be a treason against what has been done in the quest until now, as some people were saying.

 

[Hazard]

The problem is that everything that you can apply to mecha you can apply much more effectively to tanks. This is why mecha are unrealistic, and not because of them not being possible by normal science.

 

[Lord Death]

The problem is that everything that you can apply to mecha you can apply much more effectively to tanks.

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The thing about Mechs in a lot of spacey universes that have them is that they can do allmost every role in warfare with only minor mods.
Tank. Just smack some heavy armor and a big gun.
Fighter. Smoother lines and add (incert movment system here).
Scout. Strip it down to bare bones with quieter systems and if you have it stealth tech.
Shock Troopers. Front line units that sit the balence between speed defence and power as they enter the field first to secure landing sites
And loads more. while only having to mass produce a single core chassis and the specialiseations are fitted after onto that core. or swaped around depending on what's needed. It's not only a 'Rule of cool' It's a 'If this is done right we can save LOTS o money while still charging out the ass for the next thing in warfare'

 

[newwriter]

The thing about Mechs in a lot of spacey universes that have them is that they can do allmost every role in warfare with only minor mods.
Tank. Just smack some heavy armor and a big gun.
Fighter. Smoother lines and add (incert movment system here).
Scout. Strip it down to bare bones with quieter systems and if you have it stealth tech.
Shock Troopers. Front line units that sit the balence between speed defence and power as they enter the field first to secure landing sites
And loads more. while only having to mass produce a single core chassis and the specialiseations are fitted after onto that core. or swaped around depending on what's needed. It's not only a 'Rule of cool' It's a 'If this is done right we can save LOTS o money while still charging out the ass for the next thing in warfare'

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That may be true but a mech will never be as good as a tank or a fighter in their respective roles
Unless it is a really good mech governments are not going buy it

 

[Fanhunter696]

That may be true but a mech will never be as good as a tank or a fighter in their respective roles
Unless it is a really good mech governments are not going buy it

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We have two lines of research in the ground warfare, Tanks and Mechs, and I´m pretty sure that the GM has done it in a way that both lines results must be balanced, so no one is inherently superior to the other.

I´m not saying that we should start the research immediately (I will focus on upgrading our spaceships first and power armor), but after this war ends it could be interesting opening that line of research.

 

[Skjadir]

We have two lines of research in the ground warfare, Tanks and Mechs, and I´m pretty sure that the GM has done it in a way that both lines results must be balanced, so no one is inherently superior to the other.

I´m not saying that we should start the research immediately (I will focus on upgrading our spaceships first and power armor), but after this war ends it could be interesting opening that line of research.

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The Quest had more than one gm.
The mechs are from a former gm as far as i know, so no they don´t have to be balanced.

Fact is tanks are much better at what they are doing on a battlefield and has less weakpoints than a mech. The only thing that speaks for mechs is that they could be use with biotics (problem here again it isn´t worth the points (at least for now as other things are far far more important)).

I am also quite happy that this quest doesn´t run on rule of cool.

 

[Fanhunter696]

The Quest had more than one gm.
The mechs are from a former gm as far as i know, so no they don´t have to be balanced.

Fact is tanks are much better at what they are doing on a battlefield and has less weakpoints than a mech. The only thing that speaks for mechs is that they could be use with biotics (problem here again it isn´t worth the points (at least for now as other things are far far more important)).

I am also quite happy that this quest doesn´t run on rule of cool.

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We created the formula of Captain America in 3 months, we will grant mankind immortality in less than a year (when we get to it, that will be relatively soon I guess), we created an Iron Man armor prototype and a power generator superior of the one that Reapers use with farm equipment. Reaper´s main objective in this cycle is to recruit/kidnap us. This quest started with the rule of cool, and never stopped running on it.

We are practically in a Girl Genius quest, even if some people doesn't want to admit it.

 

[Hazard]

Tank. Just smack some heavy armor and a big gun.

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We could provide an uprating package for the Tiger to turn it into a proper tank, but it's not needed in the context of the galaxy.

Fighter. Smoother lines and add (incert movment system here).

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The Tiger flies. It's part of the standard movement system. In fact, it's capable of SSTO and unassisted orbital drops. It'll make a decent but not brilliant (space) fighter if needed, although you'd probably want to swap the gun for missiles or a laser.

Scout. Strip it down to bare bones with quieter systems and if you have it stealth tech.

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Or you could use the excellent optics the Tiger has. If you want something better with stealth capacity we'd need to create some variety of armoured car.

Shock Troopers. Front line units that sit the balence between speed defence and power as they enter the field first to secure landing sites

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... The Tiger is capable of flight and carries a respectable gun. There's no need for a shock variant.

 

[TheEyes]

We created the formula of Captain America in 3 months, we will grant mankind immortality in less than a year (when we get to it, that will be relatively soon I guess), we created an Iron Man armor prototype and a power generator superior of the one that Reapers use with farm equipment. Reaper´s main objective in this cycle is to recruit/kidnap us. This quest started with the rule of cool, and never stopped running on it.

We are practically in a Girl Genius quest, even if some people doesn't want to admit it.

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Oh, so your argument is that once anything changes, no matter how plausible, then all the rules must suddenly be thrown out? Well, f*** mechs, then, let's just jump straight to a Green Lantern ring powered by our Arc Reactors and win the quest instantly!

Science fiction, like urban fantasy, doesn't work the way you suggest. There are many levels between nonfiction writing and pure space opera science fantasy. There's in fact a term for that: "hard" SF, which is truer to real-world physics and reality, and "soft" SF, which emphasize story over verisimilitude.

Shepard Quest has always tried to err on the side of "Hard" SF, mainly because the games themselves attempted to be Hard SF, even if they failed miserably due to lack of a good science consultant, and as a result we generally manage to be a level or two "harder" than ME itself. Plausible mechs, on the other hand, require throwing out so much of physics, including basic concepts in engineering and materials science, even basic kinematics, that we may as well just throw out the source material entirely and make it a RWBY/Final Fantasy XIII cross instead.

 

[Lord Death]

Oh, so your argument is that once anything changes, no matter how plausible, then all the rules must suddenly be thrown out? Well, f*** mechs, then, let's just jump straight to a Green Lantern ring powered by our Arc Reactors and win the quest instantly!

Click to shrink...

Calm down now.

Plausible mechs, on the other hand, require throwing out so much of physics, including basic concepts in engineering and materials science, even basic kinematics.

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You seem to be forgetting that even if we are being 'Harder' Sci-Fi we are still in a futrue Sci-Fi universe with gravity-space-magic-meta-material-stuff. Yes mechs may not work with OUR modern tech or materials but like i have allready said. "future Sci-Fi world with gravity-space-magic-meta-material-stuff". If materials being too weak is the problem we make stronger ones. If things are too heavy we use EZero. It's an EZ soloution.
Hell looking at the research tree the 5m mech is only a 400 point research. Don't we tend to have that much research simply left over after our main target...and we more or less allready have guns to stick on them.

 

[Recycled_Content]

Could we please move on from the mech versus tank discussion, for whatever entities sake ? The great majority of people here don´t wants mechs that´s it, Get over it already. I guess You could say I´m a mecha fan, but I do understand that without the bullshitium particles that makes them a useful battle unit either in space or ground combat, they are a pretty shitty tank ripoff. they are only really useful if there is some minosvky interfence bullshit that makes visual targeting the only solution. or if the tech level either is pretty low or ultra advanced.

So please, we already debated over it many pages ago and the more sciency players here don´t fucking want them. accept it and move on already before a mod comes here again.

 

[Fanhunter696]

Oh, so your argument is that once anything changes, no matter how plausible, then all the rules must suddenly be thrown out? Well, f*** mechs, then, let's just jump straight to a Green Lantern ring powered by our Arc Reactors and win the quest instantly!

Science fiction, like urban fantasy, doesn't work the way you suggest. There are many levels between nonfiction writing and pure space opera science fantasy. There's in fact a term for that: "hard" SF, which is truer to real-world physics and reality, and "soft" SF, which emphasize story over verisimilitude.

Shepard Quest has always tried to err on the side of "Hard" SF, mainly because the games themselves attempted to be Hard SF, even if they failed miserably due to lack of a good science consultant, and as a result we generally manage to be a level or two "harder" than ME itself. Plausible mechs, on the other hand, require throwing out so much of physics, including basic concepts in engineering and materials science, even basic kinematics, that we may as well just throw out the source material entirely and make it a RWBY/Final Fantasy XIII cross instead.

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Ok, this is maybe because I´m a new reader that has finished reading the quest a few days ago, but I am a reader of Sci-Fi literature, I know the scale between hard and soft science fiction works. And seeing this discussion there is something that bothers me, and it is much deeper than the Mech vs Tank duel.

I´m going to use the scale that appears in Tvtropes.

Spoiler: Mohs Scale of Science Fiction Hardness

1. Science in Genre Only
   
   
2. World Of Phlebotinum
   
   
3. Physics Plus
   
   
4. One Big Lie
   
   
5. Speculative Science
   
   
6. Real Life

Knowing this, we have two basic Sci-fi elements in this quest, Mass Effect setting, and Revy

1. Mass Effect never had a Hard Sci-fi setting, on the contrary, it´s at best a soft-medium Space Opera, the universe place in this scale is between 2 and 3, there is too much Element Zero gimmicks to fully enter in the Physics Plus realm, It´s true that this is somehow toned down in the quest, but it´s still a between the second and the third tier.

2. Revy is basically a female Tony Stark, and the living application of Clarke´s Third Law, she is undoubtedly a character of the first tier, and her scientistic genius allows her to do literally magic from science. Her superpower is to bend the laws of reality through the power of science.

I think both can agree with with these statements up to this point.

The thing is that I can´t understand how adding to a setting that is already soft-medium science fiction like Mass Effect, an element that is clearly from a lower tier like Revy, we can get Hard Sci-fi.

In my opinion, to think that we are in anything similar to a Hard Sci-fi setting in this quest is a mere delusion because in a Hard Sci-fi setting a character like Revy couldn´t be possible.

Ok that´s all which I wanted to say, maybe it´s because as I said I´m new to this quest, but I can´t understand why we are trying to go Hard Sci-Fi in a setting that is not Hard Sci-fi and with a character whose mere existence would be impossible in a hard Sci-fi setting.