This will probably lead to a lot of Revy clones.
Or we try to go for the third option: boosting SA economy enough that the effective cost of existing frigate design drops.
Shepard Quest Mk VI, Technological Revolution
- Thread starter Hoyr
- Start date
- Location
- United states
Wouldn't be suprised if Cerberus and the Illusive man already started making some or are prepared to start in the event that the greatest genius in mankinds history dies.
Yeah, that AI was an illegal Alliance Navy skunkworks project that got found out; I don't think we want to go that route since we're already causing enough friction with our replacing the energy sector and making everyone's weapons obsolete "plots".
Well, even if humanity gets a Councilor, then that'll be the Turians and the Humans versus the Salarians and the Asari, both of whom will be especially wary of the two "warlike" races with all the super-weapons... I think at that point we're going to be facing a lot of pressure from regulators, anti-war activists (since the Batarian conflict will have long since evolved into an active shooting war), conspiracy theorists, economic, technological and social conservatives, and dozens of other interest groups that we'll have pissed off in our inexorable march to the future that we'll never be able to push through something as fraught with controversy as an AI license without having so many forced concessions attached to it that we'd never actually agree. No; I really think that if we don't get it done in the next year and a half then it probably never will get done at all.
Well sure, although I'm assuming there are additional levels, and even more that will be "locked" until we actually come into contact with Reaper Indoctrination (or at least have peaceful contact with a Rachni Queen who can tell us something about it).
Um, maybe? We've gone back and forth on lasers a lot over the last several months.
Oh dear, that's a lot of extra techs needed for high-gigawatt GRASER-ships; we might not be able to make our 2175-Q3/4 deadline. In fact, we might be better off going with the upscaling the Black F*cking Gun approach, or is that still allowed @Hoyr?
(Edit): Yeah, in fact, the gun upgrade looks way too simple by comparison:
Black F*cking Gun Upscale:
Advanced Ammo Mods - 600
->Small Ship Scale Mods - 800
Black F*cking Gun: 400
(possible) Basic Vehicle Weapon Mods - 200
->Advanced Weapon Mods - 600
Total: 2600
GRASER ships:
High-GW Lasers - 800
UV Lasers - 400
->X-Ray Lasers - 800
-->Gamma Ray Lasers - 1600
Minaturized Energy Weapons - 400
->Variable WL Lasers - 800
Total: 4800
Even with an extra 1600-point "Dark Energy MACs" tech the Black F*cking Gun upscale would be cheaper (though not by much)... unless the upscale requires Artificial Biotics/Advanced Artificial Biotics? Either way, the Cabira is almost certain to be pushed back at this rate; at the very least it's going to require some creative accounting, and we might need to start eliminating "extraneus" projects to make the 2175-Q3/4 deadline.
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Z000
If this is trash, then find me in the dumpster
- Location
- Viet Nam
20 million credit say that they fuck up again and the clone kill all of their scientist and then go crash at our place
- Location
- United states
Does Cerberus even still have a Research and development branch with Revy advancing mankinds tech levels decades/hundreds of years every few months? I know that Cerberus is all for advancing humanity but Revy riducliously outclassese their R&D so much that their scientists probably can't tell if they should be mad or overjoyed that they have become irrevelent to mankinds technoligical advancement.
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- Location
- America
When has one of their research projects ever not gone wrong and killed all the scientists?
Z000
If this is trash, then find me in the dumpster
- Location
- Viet Nam
let see
Overlord - nope, the guy they hook up into the thing kill all of them
Lazarus - a traitor happen and the result (Shepard) go and kill more
EDI - turn against them and kill them
Normandy SR2 - got use to kill them
EVA android - EDI hijack it and use it to kill them
the Moon AI - it gave birth to EDI and go slaughter them
the one that spawn Jack - she when and kill them aswell
every project they did either A) go wrong and kill them or B) succeed very well and the result then go and kill them later or C) get hijack by some one and got use to kill them
- Location
- New Zealand
To be fair some of their projects went very well, however it has only the ones no sane person would want to succeed.
To be fair: that one probably wasn't Cerberus. Or, at least, we don't have any particular reason to think it was. The Systems Alliance has ben trying to make a stable AI for a long time and they keep fucking it up without any outside help.
It'll cost more then just getting the 400 point tech heavy weapons... but yeah you can make psuedo-signularity and later singularity guns.
The Laser Frigates are still viable their just not OMGWTFBBQ (Literally!) out of the the gate.
It's still has like a 14-20 thousand km range. On a frigate that's BS. Combine that with a BS accuracy and the ability to dodge those could kite a dreadnought.
I guess then the only question is how many RPs it's going to take to research singularity guns versus GRASERs, and which will be more effective. As mentioned above, getting fully kitted-out GRASER-frigates will take 4800 RPs, plus the other Cabira techs like Gravitational sensors and TIR, whereas singularity guns will cost 2600 RPs plus an unknown number of follow-on techs.
As to effectiveness, I'm suspecting that our different weapon types will have different effectiveness regimes when we've invested in enough of the techs:
Missiles: extreme range and potentially very high ROF, but limited ammo and very expensive (especially the FTL-capable ones)
Lasers: very long range (with upgrades), but has a semi-obvious defense (the TIR field from an FTL bubble); best used as a stealth/alpha strike weapon
MACs: long range; more susceptible to shield/barrier tech than lasers and repulsors
Repulsor Cannons: short/mid range; slices through shields/barriers easily
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- Location
- Leeds
I think you've overestimated the scale that we're operating at. While I can't seem to find it in the spreadsheet I believe that we've only sold industrial scale Arc Reactors to a single company. We haven't destroyed fusion or helium3 as an industry because I'd be surprised if one in a hundred worlds is getting powered by an Arc Reactor, not even considering spaceships.
What we have destroyed is investor confidence that those markets will continue to grow or even remain stable over a period of decades or years.
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It's really not a problem. For the Pynda I'm using the SR-1 as my base image for what the ship looks like. She already comes with a spinal mount so no problem there. The wing mounted guns are exactly that; mounted on to the wings so no issues there. SR-1 already has Armor/KBs/GARDIANs so again no room complications there. Repulsors are smaller then regular engines so that is actually a space gain and even 100 Arc Reactors is going to take up a tiny space compared to a fusion reactor.
So there should be no reason why you couldn't fit all the amenities and other stuff from the SR-1 on it. More since we wouldn't have that massive waste of space Galaxy Map.
Huh. Well that dramatically drops the prices on our ships. Like seriously when we start making ships the Alliance is going to ask what kind of black magic we are using.
Seriously if my numbers are right we're talking about selling ships equal to their regular frigates for the price of a used Wuni!
Straight off the bat I just don't think the hull and frame should cost anywhere near that much. Together they represent 370m credits which is pretty insane considering an entire civilian ship of the same size costs 9.2m in comparison. Yes the military grade ship is going to be using stronger alloys but that doesn't really justify a 40x increase, more if you look at just the hull&frame cost of the civilian ship, in cost.
With the Pynda I figured a military grade ship without all the expensive military equipment would cost 150% more putting it at 15m and throwing in another 5m for the hyper-modularity equipment.
I was also under the impression that weapons made up a far larger proportion of the cost because of:
It would make sense for them to be the most expensive part after the FTL Drive. Because out of everything on the ship they are the two things that require massive amounts of Eezo. The FTL Drive for propelling the ship to FTL and the MACs for lightening the projectiles to the point where they can hit ludicrous speed over a rather short distance.
I also can't help but wonder where you got the Repulsor figures from? Because they are nothing in line with what we've previously being working with. From prior information we know that equal sized Repulsors cost the same as an Arc Reactor.
On reflection I think that price should scale with (d2/d1)^2 rather then d2/d1 that way quadrupling the output quadruples the cost rather then doubling it. It fits better with the way Arc Reactors scale. In that case a 800m Repuslor would still be over kill at 12.6m in diameter, 400MN of force, and 11.2TW of power. For comparison's sake in this post I estimated that a 10m (250MN) would be 4x faster then a normal anti-matter drive. So a more accurate figure would be 500m.
This does however tell me I need to re-do the numbers of the Pynda since I've being using 1m instead of 10m Repulsors for some reason, probably due to a typo months back.
You're welcome.
Well given that regular soldiers in ParSec are paid 187,500/quarter each 100k seems a bit low.
Seems reasonable given that pilots are paid 37,000/quarter. Which does seem rather low for some reason...
If you feel like it. It's not like it's going to effect our bottom line...
Okay. The update just wasn't very clear if we did anything with the money given:
I'm assuming, for now anyway, that the donation, which is basically was, is tax deductible.
Update:
Finance Doc
->Added 1,000,000,000cr donation to the Mars Archive Research in 2174-Q1
->Added Fighter Squadron Commander Ithix expense for 75,000cr/quarter starting 2174-Q1
As proud as I am of the Cabira I actually think going the Pynda route is actually better. There is no functional difference, that I can think of anyway, between a fully kitted out Pynda* and the Cabira. What makes the Pynda more attractive is that we can start selling the hulls and low cost loadouts soonish and build up a large fleet of them for the Alliance.
*Once I finish revising the design and remember to actually include a space for TIR equipment and anything else I've forgotten.
They Alliance can upgrade them over the years to our most advanced versions and in the case of war or such they'll already have a strong fleet that will get even stronger with us pumping out upgrades as fast as possible rather then having to produce the fleet from scratch.
Next quarter we are bringing online a factory with a 3,000,000 Production/quarter capacity. At 0.3 Production per 5 GW Arc Reactor, that gives us a total output of 50,000,000 GW, or 50 petawatts of generating capacity that we can bring online, every three months. That 50 petawatts of generating power can produce 438,000 PW-hours of energy in a year. For reference, the planet Earth used 155.5 PW-hours of energy, total, in 2012. You'd also be interested to note that energy use per capita has held steady over the past 30 years in the industrialized nations; that trend seems set to continue as efficiency continues to be economically incentivized (additive manufacturing, 3D printing, and increasingly efficient batteries seem set to be the biggest drivers of energy efficiency for the next half century). In other words, the only thing that seems set to boost energy consumption by the 2170s is the fact that humanity has doubled its population again, which means that the total amount of energy that humanity should need by 2174, barring the introduction of an energy hog like Repulsors, should be roughly 300-350 PW-hours, which we can cover in a single quarter.
The bottom line is, as of next quarter, we own the energy sector, completely. The fusion-killer is here, and we have built it.
Let's not forget that we don't need fuel tanks anymore, neither He-3 nor antimatter, saving even more space.
I agree; in fact I think that what we've been calling the "Cabira" is just going to end up being a specialized, 250m version of the Pynda: a larger assault frigate, tailored for stealthed GRASER alpha-strikes, rather than a patrol frigate.
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By speciality build we can theoretically fit more in as we don't need all the parts nessecary to allow modularity and we should be able to save more space by interwinding components that work best together.
Given the BS that we can do it would not be much and only in the short term (as we develope even better stuff) so a specialiced frigat would preform maybe 10% above the modular until we have developed better tech.
It may still be worthwhile if we know that further upgrades to the used tech is unlikely to occour (because we have researched everything in that category).
- Location
- Leeds
My point was that we haven't killed it yet. Just built the thing that will inevitably do it.
Secondly there are thousands of planets in citadel space, even if they do only use the same power as a modern earth its not insignificant.
Thirdly even if we can produce enough that's no guarantee that they will all be used, I don't intend to argue that Arc is in anyway an inferior power source to fusion, just that some people will be needlessly paranoid no matter how sarcastic we are, that there will be logistical bottlenecks and that many people would rather run their spaceship/fusion reactor to the end of its life rather than transfer to Arc.
Fourthly, flying cars. You know even conservative energy estimates for those? Given the all the gadgets, gizmos and stuff it's highly unlikely that we are at modern earth power levels on significant planets even considering energy efficiency savings. If I offered to sell America a 99% energy efficient shield over the country, that's still an increase in power compared to not having one.
Technically speaking Industrial AR and hand-held ones have the same Production/Cost/Sale ratios so I've never bothered to detail which ones people have ordered unless their asking for discount or it was a company of note EAE for example.
Titanium (
I was mathing out the civilian multipliers... it kinda at x0.0575 the military one for the hull/frame right now...
I can really take to much more out...Edit: It could probably stand to go down... Hmm to how much? The multiplier is x20 or more depending on the stuff used...
Charts below
| Ship Size (m) | 100 | |||
| "Normal" Top FTL | 15 | Multiplier | Civilian | |
| Ship Part | 100.00% | $46,296,296,296.30 | $9,257,222.22 | |
| Frame | 0.40% | $185,185,185.19 | 0.00575 | $1,064,814.81 |
| Hull | 0.40% | $185,185,185.19 | 0.00575 | $1,064,814.81 |
| Thrusters | 5.25% | $2,430,555,555.56 | 0.0002 | $486,111.11 |
| Mass Effect Core | 53.00% | $24,537,037,037.04 | $4,907,407.41 | |
| Power Core | 15.00% | $6,944,444,444.44 | 0.0002 | $1,388,888.89 |
| Sensors | 3.00% | $1,388,888,888.89 | 0.00002 | $27,777.78 |
| Armor | 6.25% | $2,893,518,518.52 | $0.00 | |
| Shields | 7.28% | $3,370,370,370.37 | 0.00002 | $67,407.41 |
| Weapons | 7.37% | $3,410,185,185.19 | $0.00 | |
| Spinal | 5.10% | $2,361,111,111.11 | $0.00 | |
| Secondary | 0.52% | $238,888,888.89 | $0.00 | |
| GARDIAN | 1.75% | $810,185,185.19 | $0.00 | |
| Crew | 0.05% | $23,148,148.15 | 0.01 | $231,481.48 |
| Misc | 2.00% | $925,925,925.93 | 0.00002 | $18,518.52 |
| Arc Reactor | $2,934,823.44 | |||
| Repulsors OP | $40,000,000,000.00 | |||
| Repulsors Saner | $40,000,000.00 | |||
| "Normal" War Ship | $46,294,444,444.44 | |||
| Carrier | $42,247,685,185.19 | |||
| Civilian | $9,257,222.22 | |||
| PI Upgrade Warship | $40,372,564,453.07 | |||
| PI Low Budget Warship | $12,760,924,383.79 | |||
| PI Low Budget Carrier | $6,795,368,828.23 |
Yeah that wasn't the best data...
I was working from a very poor paradigm. It could go up, but 50% is way to much.The formula I used is simple, 700*(X/0.6)3, where X is the length of the gun (Spinals are 90% of ship length on average). Which basically says a hand held ~SMG that's 0.6m long costs about 700 credits, scale cubic. Man issue is what do I take the cost out of? Shields NEEDS to be high (around the same as weapons) as does power, sensors was one of the randoms (as is Misc) Armor should be high (not sure how high). Thrusters should maybe be even higher...
Lots of things to spend money on. So yeah it can go up... what should go down?
Well there was a formula error so fixed that...
New Data:
| Repulsors OP | $40,000,000,000.00 | |
| Repulsors Saner | $40,000,000.00 |
Saner was dome by just dividing by 1000. Seemed safe enough.
Price scales with volume. Just like ARs. Power with thrust surface area I believe. (Yes that means some old values are wrong, I'll hand wave it). Or IDK could have it be volume too... that'd be easier.
Thoughts?
Hmm... okay.
Well if that's true then 250,000/quarter. Make Ithix 220,000/quarter and pay our pilots more... like just up the number to... same as the soldiers unless that's crazy.
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- Location
- Leeds
For shame. Are you sure you're taking this seriously?
Oh also I seem to be having problems with the new tech tree, or possible google drawings. After the thing loads it just shows a blank screen. The fact that I can't even see a tool bar makes google all the more suspicious.
Wait you want me to detail every time some one asks for a large AR? Uhh... let's mutually agree you don't want to review PI's Marketing Department's Paper work and I don't want to write it. I'd like this quest to progress at a rate a little faster then in game time not slower. (We're almost failing at that by the way...)
If your talk about them having the same Production/Cost/Sales ratio that was an old thing I've never changed from the first GM.
Well it's not google docs...
http:// postimg.org/image/vj8osvei3/
Edit: You'll have to take the space out SV is being a pain.
Is the literal address, the image is large 894 pixels high by 9963 pixels wide.
Not sure how to help you... maybe one of your internet defense programs is blocking?
Edit: DON'T. CHANGE. THE. ADDRESS. INTO. A. LINK. SV. I DIDN'T DO THAT MYSELF FOR A REASON!
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- Location
- Leeds
@durin does for his quest. Although I was mostly teasing. Mostly.
Thanks, I was probably trying to open the old one then.
Dark Ness
Rises Where Silence Dies
- Location
- The Primordial Soup
Durin only has 8 different places we can sell to. Not the (likely) billions of companies in Mass Effect
- Location
- Leeds
He has far more goods though. Although that may (will) change as we get further down the tech tree.
- Location
- America
IIRC, the Normandy SR-1 is something like 170 meters or something. That might throw things off a bit.
Also, wing mounted guns just kinda irk me. Missiles on the wings is fine since the Cabira is basically like a giant fighter. The 10m guns are kinda pointless as well and unlike the spinal mount or weapons attached to the hull, there's no way to perform maintenance on wing guns without pulling into drydock or someone doing some EVA.
Wing mounted missiles are plausible, but in ME you want your guns to have the longest possible straight line to accelerate that chunk of iron, so spinal mass accelerators are what you'd use for guns. For anything in turrets you basically want lasers.
Also, if we can get better focusing lenses for our lasers we can start using them in mid range slug fests instead of them being a short range only weapon. With gigaJoule lasers that's... probably actually worthwhile.
Also, if we can get better focusing lenses for our lasers we can start using them in mid range slug fests instead of them being a short range only weapon. With gigaJoule lasers that's... probably actually worthwhile.