Remove ads

Panopticon: A Game of Posthumans, Perniciousness, Paranoia, Politics, and Plasmaguns

Reader mode
Or you surrender and they put a bullet in the back of your head as soon as you are out of sight of the public.

Playing for time is still talking to them, it doesn't make them less convinceable. Nor does it make it harder for Donald to escape either under his own power or with help. On his feet in the subway is an infinitely better position than sitting in the back of an armoured, warded limo with a superhuman on each side, filled with compliance juice and none of your allies know where you are.

I know that many of our votes are chosen to shape the narrative rather than straight up tactics but we should at least consider what the character will think is their best move. Donald is not thinking "if I surrender then MJ might make Yingzheng turnable and give me a chance to try and anyway it improves the odds of quantum Alicia saving the day." He is thinking "these are no friendlies that I've heard of and they're here for me. Shit. If I go with them then my death is one of the better outcomes and one that I won't necessarily be able to ensure." He is capable of making a sacrifice play but he has no specific goal that requires one. He knows of no value in going with them that won't still be there after a long session of blather and "random" interruptions.
 
EarthScorpion said:
I would also like to strongly recommend against anyone going "Yeah, I like ES's plan, but what about we just add in this... and this... and this...". As we were told, "Note that the more you choose, the longer it'll take to get everyone's peas in a pod.". I think 4 is already pushing it, and I'm somewhat hoping that the deliberate thematic integrity bonus might help here.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Question: given that you're sending a lot of swole dudes and dudetts in tacticool gear, why no pan-immunity inoculation? That seems like a pretty big vulnerability to your loadout. Or are you feeling that by picking EC Japan there'll be enough enlightened science on board to cover that on the fly?
 
noliar said:
Or you surrender and they put a bullet in the back of your head as soon as you are out of sight of the public.

Playing for time is still talking to them, it doesn't make them less convinceable. Nor does it make it harder for Donald to escape either under his own power or with help. On his feet in the subway is an infinitely better position than sitting in the back of an armoured, warded limo with a superhuman on each side, filled with compliance juice and none of your allies know where you are.

I know that many of our votes are chosen to shape the narrative rather than straight up tactics but we should at least consider what the character will think is their best move. Donald is not thinking "if I surrender then MJ might make Yingzheng turnable and give me a chance to try and anyway it improves the odds of quantum Alicia saving the day." He is thinking "these are no friendlies that I've heard of and they're here for me. Shit. If I go with them then my death is one of the better outcomes and one that I won't necessarily be able to ensure." He is capable of making a sacrifice play but he has no specific goal that requires one. He knows of no value in going with them that won't still be there after a long session of blather and "random" interruptions.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I believe you are incorrect on many points here.
- The likelihood that they'll just put a bullet into him is startlingly low, and he'd know it. She has assured him that he will be safe with them if he comes immediately (ie, not stalling for time) and he can tell that she is telling the truth. That kind of precludes insta-execute. Additionally, if they were going to try to kill him, they'd have done that straight off from ambush, rather than trying to convince him to give himself up. A sniper round from stealth would be a much more effective way of handling this whole thing lethally, if that's what she wanted. Also, he has far too much potential value as a hostage/captive to just shoot him in the back of the head once they have him. Indeed, he has the Corr 3 bullet-ban rotes to prove it.

- He does at least entertain the possibility that she's on their side. He has a decent clue by now that Clock's minions are being held together by a tissue of lies. Perhaps this one has slipped her leash. Alternately, he has to be aware of the possibility that even if she hasn't, he could convince her. He has some fairly damning evidence at this point, assuming that she's not completely programmed.

- He has Mind 1, which means that he's at least reasonably good at resisting attempts to reprogram him. He has Corr 4, Entropy 4, Time 4, Spirit 4, and Primal Utility 4, which means (among other things) that he's slippery as hell. Assuming that they don't kill him straight off (which they almost certainly won't) he can go along with them for a bit, find out more of what the deal is, and then probably still escape. After all, she's still playing semi-friendly. There has to be a reason they didn't just go tranq-and-grab.

- If he goes immediately, she's guaranteeing his safety, and Alicia is not spent. If he hangs around, the guarantee is gone (why? Is it her, or some *other* threat?) and Alicia gets spent (assuming he successfully plays for time at all). I don't think we want to spend our Alicia token right yet. Also, @EarthScorpion's write-in does a great job of turning her that much more likely to be either an ally or turnable.

- Again with the OOC information... best OOC info is that at core, she's not Clock's creature - she's Aleph's.
 
[X] EC-Japan Strike Team (Operation Control and Support)
[X] Project ORION Hunter Team (Heavy Assault Element)
[X] X-PROG-311B Assault VTOL Squadron (Modified) (Initial Deployment and Aerial Support)
[X] Damage Control Militarization Protocol (Loaded for Tacticool)
 
[X] EC-Japan Strike Team (Operation Control and Support)
[X] Project ORION Hunter Team (Heavy Assault Element)
[X] X-PROG-311B Assault VTOL Squadron (Modified) (Initial Deployment and Aerial Support)
[X] Damage Control Militarization Protocol (Loaded for Tacticool)


ES's argument was spot on here, and it appeals to my sense that combined arms and training and guys who do this for a living should be the force we send- a very progenitor approach, rather than the more etherite style of wacky mad science, and robo-dragons and shit.

As for Donald-teleporting-Rose, consider that the other side of it is that as players- and even as the guy running the show that MJ12 is, none of us can actually see into the future, which makes things like futurecasting-precog- difficult to plan around. I expect that the sort of thing that Donald is doing here might actually represent our one gimme for the situation. Our freebee of 'Donald going over the books late last night, passing out, and waking up with a dull ache and a certainty that tomorrow will see a lot of danger of a particular type- and making the plan to replace Rose with a clone in the event of capture. We're just rolling for it now, rather than then. Maybe.
 
[X] literally any and all plans that includes the psi-squid attack chopper Señors.

I know what I want, okay.
 
Last edited:
Bah i want the cyber t rex

On a more serious note, argubly, the options we don't choose might just end up as shockwaves or as the second wave, should our first plan fail. There ought to be a rote for that, i think.
 
Last edited:
As much as I want to know what's in the MYSTERY BOX and bring in Ragnarok Command, I can appreciate keeping them in narrative reserve, and letting this operation be a Ethical Compliance-led one.

Operation Tacticool Flexing

[X] EC-Japan Strike Team (Operation Control and Support)
[X] Project ORION Hunter Team (Heavy Assault Element)
[X] X-PROG-311B Assault VTOL Squadron (Modified) (Initial Deployment and Aerial Support)
[X] Damage Control Militarization Protocol (Loaded for Tacticool)

This has the ANGRY MARINES (ALWAYS ANGRY, ALL THE TIME!), so I am happy. Flying psychic war-squid choppers with Henriette at the controls of one is also doubleplusgood.

I'd like to see the SISTERS in action too, and even more so the EXEMPLAR II Reunion, but we can't get all the goodies, and this package hangs together well.
 
FunkyEntropy said:
Question: given that you're sending a lot of swole dudes and dudetts in tacticool gear, why no pan-immunity inoculation? That seems like a pretty big vulnerability to your loadout. Or are you feeling that by picking EC Japan there'll be enough enlightened science on board to cover that on the fly?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I can't actually speak for him, but I think this load out does a pretty good job of making sure that our guys don't get melted into a puddle of particularly swole goo.

The VTOLs don't need it, DC Militarization has our basic troops be equipped with power armor for all, and thus they have enough NBC protection to make life difficult for any hostile bioweapons, and the EC Japan team is likewise filled with people in survival gear who also all have Enlightened Science to stave off their own demise.

The ORIONs... will probably have several of their number die, but I heavily doubt they'll take total casualties. And since the Nanovirus isn't super useful for the other groups, having 25 (assuming pretty much worst case and 50% of the die from preventable bio-war causes) power armored Crinos-equivalents with massive guns is likely better than a bit more protection for the other guys.

Because 25 or more wulfs in war mode with armor and Technocratic weapons is never not going to be a force to be reckoned with.
 
EternalStruggle said:
I can't actually speak for him, but I think this load out does a pretty good job of making sure that our guys don't get melted into a puddle of particularly swole goo.

The VTOLs don't need it, DC Militarization has our basic troops be equipped with power armor for all, and thus they have enough NBC protection to make life difficult for any hostile bioweapons, and the EC Japan team is likewise filled with people in survival gear who also all have Enlightened Science to stave off their own demise.

The ORIONs... will probably have several of their number die, but I heavily doubt they'll take total casualties. And since the Nanovirus isn't super useful for the other groups, having 25 (assuming pretty much worst case and 50% of the die from preventable bio-war causes) power armored Crinos-equivalents with massive guns is likely better than a bit more protection for the other guys.

Because 25 or more wulfs in war mode with armor and Technocratic weapons is never not going to be a force to be reckoned with.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
More to the point the innoculation is a defense against something the enemy might not even use. It denies them a set of foci for enlightened science, and the moment they figure out we have it they won't bother wasting time with NBC threats.

Yes, it's useful, but there's the sense it's just not worth the time.
 
dash931 said:
More to the point the innoculation is a defense against something the enemy might not even use. It denies them a set of foci for enlightened science, and the moment they figure out we have it they won't bother wasting time with NBC threats.

Yes, it's useful, but there's the sense it's just not worth the time.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Oh yea. The progenitors. What is their purview? Because locking out a fair bit of their foci is a good idea.
 
FunkyEntropy said:
Question: given that you're sending a lot of swole dudes and dudetts in tacticool gear, why no pan-immunity inoculation? That seems like a pretty big vulnerability to your loadout. Or are you feeling that by picking EC Japan there'll be enough enlightened science on board to cover that on the fly?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Because you don't always get everything you want.

More seriously, the ORIONs have primium bones, and the power armour from the militarisation should be a) sealed, and b) come with some more primium. With the Ethical Compliance people focussing more on mission control, there'll be some Enlightened badasses buffing the assault team. They're not naked and unprotected. But, no, it won't be as good as taking an entire option devoted entirely to passive defence.

It's just that we were explicitly warned that the more options we took, the longer it'd take. And four picks is about all I get the gut feeling as what we can argue is still a "fast assault". We deliberately went in early and because of that we got weaker opponents. I don't think we should sacrifice the tactical advantage just to take everything we want, rather than what we think we can get.

So, yes, I fully expect to take casualties that could have been avoided with the inoculation, even with the sealed power armour and the primium. The world isn't perfect, and I'm just worried that trying to take too many options could push our luck or just give the locals more time to escalate. When it comes down to it, I'm making the deliberate decision to go for a thematically tight assault package with a very particular theme and aesthetic. You know, sort of like a Wargame: EE themed deck. I'm hoping that the deliberate choice to go for a themed Ethical Compliance deck might mean we can get the assault going in 3.5 options worth of time, or maybe even 3.

I really don't want another Moscow fuck-up where we didn't act fast enough.

So, yeah. Cross would totally take the inoculation if he could - but he couldn't get it cleared in time. The world isn't perfect. Blame it on Agency sabotage, if you want.
 
Also, I'm slightly leery of taking a networked immune system that could be turned into a massive problem if Gregor hacks it.
 
EarthScorpion said:
It's just that we were explicitly warned that the more options we took, the longer it'd take. And four picks is about all I get the gut feeling as what we can argue is still a "fast assault". We deliberately went in early and because of that we got weaker opponents. I don't think we should sacrifice the tactical advantage just to take everything we want, rather than what we think we can get.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
It also feels like your selection passed over the more "hard-hitting" choices -- the EXEMPLARS, ANACHRON, Project VERMILLION, potentially the Mystery Box. Among our line-up, only the ORION Hunter Team feels very beefy. Would that be an accurate way to describe the load-out you went with?

Which further means that if we're taking "somewhat enhanced, elite humans" versus "the worst projects of Progenitor labs" speed and coordination is even more important. And your selection does bear that out -- of the choices, only the Project ORION pick looks like it wouldn't already be in Japan to begin with. The flying war-squids are probably a Progenitor staple. And the Militarization Protocol doesn't need to pull off heavy asset teams or dinosaurs; it's just about getting better weapons and armor to the people who are already here.

Other than ORION and maybe the Extra Gear, everything and everybody else is local, I think?
 
Well. Argubly we could rote up some shit.

A initial first wave of whatever we can wrangle up, followed by a second and maybe third wave of heavy assets that couldn't make it in time for the first wave.

Thats argubly the saner way to execute a assualt on a fortified location with urgency. Hit them with whatever you can easily muster on hand and at the same time keep preparing more assets and growing your reserves in the case of needing them.
 
Last edited:
Garlak said:
It also feels like your selection passed over the more "hard-hitting" choices -- the EXEMPLARS, ANACHRON, Project VERMILLION, potentially the Mystery Box. Among our line-up, only the ORION Hunter Team feels very beefy. Would that be an accurate way to describe the load-out you went with?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Mmm. Not consciously. I was really just roleplaying Cross/Blackwatch there. So that meant I picked the options which were thematically appropriate for a Blackwatch team, added to some of the things Cross has learned from hard experience in Moscow.

So he avoided anything with a singular point of failure - the Sisters and the ANACHRON. The Sisters are a single hivemind that he doesn't want to put near Leon Gregor, a man who is good enough with Mind to punch through the mind-shields of Sera who's also a Master of Mind. The ANACHRON is totally dependent on its controller.

I avoided Project Vermillion because it's out of genre for Blackwatch, and Cross avoided it because he didn't want the delay of having to fight the NK teams for access to it.

The EXEMPLAR evasion was an OOC thing of "they don't fit Blackwatch" and another OOC thing of "it doesn't feel right to drag in a bunch of mythological characters as a boss squad". If we'd spent more time around a bunch of them, I'd have been down for it - but narratively it feels wrong to pull out a bunch of heroes who we don't also know as people (unlike Cross, who's more than just Paris). The EXEMPLARs are distinctive enough that each of them really needs screentime each.

And the Ragnarok thing was basically just because... well, I want to leave the option of Kessler getting involved for later, and the "don't get greedy" rule which meant I basically was limiting myself to 4 options.
 
EarthScorpion said:
Mmm. Not consciously. I was really just roleplaying Cross/Blackwatch there. So that meant I picked the options which were thematically appropriate for a Blackwatch team, added to some of the things Cross has learned from hard experience in Moscow.

<explanations>
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Hmm. Yeah, okay, I'm mostly satisfied with this, though I'll just ask for your reasoning on taking Damage Control Militarization instead of Pan-Immunity Nanovirus when we have two heavy assets in the form of the ORION team and the X-PROG VTOLs. I suspect it's along the lines of a cost/benefit thing wherein increased offence at the cost of slightly lowered defence will give us a better chance of ending this quickly, which is logic I'd agree with, but I'd like to hear your perspective.

[X] EC-Japan Strike Team (Operation Control and Support)
[X] Project ORION Hunter Team (Heavy Assault Element)
[X] X-PROG-311B Assault VTOL Squadron (Modified) (Initial Deployment and Aerial Support)
[X] Damage Control Militarization Protocol (Loaded for Tacticool)
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top