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Panopticon: A Game of Posthumans, Perniciousness, Paranoia, Politics, and Plasmaguns

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[X] The interrogator refers to Ethical Compliance-and Cross has been coming to similar conclusions to you. Professor Li wants to talk-and so do Mr. and Mrs. Rosario, who know where Serafina is.

While the others are very shiny, this has been a lot of build for progenitor stuff, let's finish that off instead of swerving into something else.

~~~~~

So, I have a crazy idea. Which is why I'm voting the way I am. The IVs are going to give Control human forms again. Human. We can work with humans. Humans? They can be flipped. Sure, their greater selves can't, but these human Avatars can, ala what happened with Mari.

Sure, I doubt we'll even get most of them, but even one would be a godsend. With that in mind, I want them as primed for that as possible. If Gregor is a cunning/hopeful man, I could see him planning for this himself. Given his intelligence, he might easily have partially wanted to fail here, to cut down on his time. Maybe not for the sake of humanity, but so that it would be easier for him to influence and/or out-think them. We, of course, would also benefit from that.

So I think we should make them as close to human baseline (mentally) as possible. As slow as possible, so they can't think too much in an accelerated timeframe. Less countermagic, so they can't completely no-sell technocratic procedures and reality deviance, both of which might be used to effect their minds. And human-level senses, so we can get more past them.

That will of course mean that they're super tough, super strong, and have hypertech weaponry, but that's 'same shit, different day' at this point. They'll be weakest were we need them to be, where we might actually have a chance of beating/subverting them. Their minds.

[ ] The original plan was to make them nearly invincible-using the same protomatter as the ASE and the same preternatural toughness several of the EXEMPLAR Is and IIs have. Unfortunately, he can't manage that and will have to make do with mere high-end combat construct toughness.
[X] Like a few of the EXEMPLAR IIs and the ASE, EXEMPLAR IV was supposed to be fast. So fast they might as well have tactical teleportation and an immensely accelerated timeframe. Unfortunately, they're going to have to rely on merely superhuman agility and speed instead.
[ ] The extradimensional myofibrils which he harvested and reverse-engineered from the ASE are a no-go. The EXEMPLAR IV will be strong, but not "beat a tank to death with its own turret" strong.
[] The ASE's internal weapons and defenses were not capable of being duplicated in time for his rush production. They'll have to rely on, you know. Guns. And armor. And their own personal skill, rather than projecting forcefields of death.
[X] The EXEMPLAR IVs were supposed to have Primium-infused bones and a broad-spectrum shield against reality deviance and technocratic procedures. Rush jobs mean they're closer to Rose or Vanessas in innate countermagic than to the Anathema.
[X] He hasn't had time to integrate the instinct package to manage the senses of the EXEMPLAR IV. It will only have human-equivalent senses.
 
Ridiculously Average Guy said:
So, I have a crazy idea. Which is why I'm voting the way I am. The IVs are going to give Control human forms again. Human. We can work with humans. Humans? They can be flipped. Sure, their greater selves can't, but these human Avatars can, ala what happened with Mari.
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Don't stick it [1] in the crazy insane super-smart super-willpowered literally-unable-to-change spirit coalescence made of archmasters.

[1] Where "it" is "your mind".
 
EarthScorpion said:
Don't stick it [1] in the crazy insane super-smart super-willpowered literally-unable-to-change spirit coalescence made of archmasters.

[1] Where "it" is "your mind".
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What? No, of course we wouldn't put our minds in them, that's insane. No, I mean use stuff like hyperpsych on them to force them to realize they're puppets of mad versions of themselves, and/or that if they joined us they would have to share less control with the others.
 
Ridiculously Average Guy said:
What? No, of course we wouldn't put our minds in them, that's insane. No, I mean use stuff like hyperpsych on them to force them to realize they're puppets of mad versions of themselves, and/or that if they joined us they would have to share less control with the others.
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Okay. There's a couple issues I have with this plan.

You used Mari as an example of why it could work. Here's the problems with that:

1. Henrietta, and by extension Mari, weren't Void Adapted. They were immune, this was an important point back when Henrietta was, you know, still alive. It's what allowed her to act the way she did.

Control is definitely Void Adapted. Which makes trying to convert them a not good idea.

Because they're basically Spirits. Unchanging Spirits. Mad, insane, caricatures of their former selves Spirits.

This is probably the most important point.

2. Mari was a conversion target because she was alone and confused. Part of Henrietta's tragedy is that she was a teenager, younger than Henriette. She shouldn't have been like she was.

Control is many things, but definitely not that. They're ancient mages past the E6 threshold, and as we know have massive amounts of hubris. ALL OF THE HUBRIS.

3. You know what happened last time still-living Control had bodies separated from their Threat Null minds?

The not Rose parts of EXEMPLAR III.

This also ended poorly.

This is the least important point, but it's more evidence this idea perhaps has a few flaws in it.
 
If you are running on a merely superhuman meat brain in a world with rules beyond your own desires then being a rigid, hubris filled caricature of yourself is maladaptive. I don't think we can turn them but EXEMPLAR III style fratricide might be set off.

[X] The interrogator refers to Ethical Compliance-and Cross has been coming to similar conclusions to you. Professor Li wants to talk-and so do Mr. and Mrs. Rosario, who know where Serafina is.


[X] Like a few of the EXEMPLAR IIs and the ASE, EXEMPLAR IV was supposed to be fast. So fast they might as well have tactical teleportation and an immensely accelerated timeframe. Unfortunately, they're going to have to rely on merely superhuman agility and speed instead.
[X] The EXEMPLAR IVs were supposed to have Primium-infused bones and a broad-spectrum shield against reality deviance and technocratic procedures. Rush jobs mean they're closer to Rose or Vanessas in innate countermagic than to the Anathema.
[X] He hasn't had time to integrate the instinct package to manage the senses of the EXEMPLAR IV. It will only have human-equivalent senses.
 
Hmm... The Progenitor storyline sounds good, will be my pick.

I was wondering though -- would it be possible to combine the Progenitor and NWO choices? Favoring the Progenitor aspects such as the Exemplar and Rose and Serafina's character arcs and all that; but bringing in Bastion as the head of the NWO in order to work on the "we are finally managing to bring the ground-side members of Command together in one damn group against Threat Null" plotline.

So more Progenitor on the balance, but with two people of Command being brought in.
 
Garlak said:
Hmm... The Progenitor storyline sounds good, will be my pick.

I was wondering though -- would it be possible to combine the Progenitor and NWO choices? Favoring the Progenitor aspects such as the Exemplar and Rose and Serafina's character arcs and all that; but bringing in Bastion as the head of the NWO in order to work on the "we are finally managing to bring the ground-side members of Command together in one damn group against Threat Null" plotline.

So more Progenitor on the balance, but with two people of Command being brought in.
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Yes, you could find a way to integrate all of them if you could sell me on how it makes for a good story.
 
Argubly if it's the end game, Jameila should be present to see to Blanc. Hell, most of the cast have a personal bone to pick with Control it seems.
 
ckk185 said:
Argubly if it's the end game, Jameila should be present to see to Blanc. Hell, most of the cast have a personal bone to pick with Control it seems.
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J-a-m-e-l-i-a is an odd way to spell Alice.

To J, Blanc is the evil mentor figure. To Alice, he's the embodiment of every bad thing about her entire life who she hates with the undying passion of a thousand burning suns.

Then again, if Jamelia finds out about what Blanc was trying to do with Alice....
 
Not sure about the other things, but I want to deny these three things from the enemy:

[X] Like a few of the EXEMPLAR IIs and the ASE, EXEMPLAR IV was supposed to be fast. So fast they might as well have tactical teleportation and an immensely accelerated timeframe. Unfortunately, they're going to have to rely on merely superhuman agility and speed instead.
[X] The EXEMPLAR IVs were supposed to have Primium-infused bones and a broad-spectrum shield against reality deviance and technocratic procedures. Rush jobs mean they're closer to Rose or Vanessas in innate countermagic than to the Anathema.
[X] He hasn't had time to integrate the instinct package to manage the senses of the EXEMPLAR IV. It will only have human-equivalent senses.

Which leaves them this:

[ ] The original plan was to make them nearly invincible-using the same protomatter as the ASE and the same preternatural toughness several of the EXEMPLAR Is and IIs have. Unfortunately, he can't manage that and will have to make do with mere high-end combat construct toughness.
[ ] The extradimensional myofibrils which he harvested and reverse-engineered from the ASE are a no-go. The EXEMPLAR IV will be strong, but not "beat a tank to death with its own turret" strong.
[ ] The ASE's internal weapons and defenses were not capable of being duplicated in time for his rush production. They'll have to rely on, you know. Guns. And armor. And their own personal skill, rather than projecting forcefields of death.
[ ] The regeneration tech that Rose and combat homonculi have didn't play well with the chimeric construction of the EXEMPLAR IV. They heal with accelerated speed, but only moderately faster than humans.

Extremely though, fast regenerating, strong and equipped with various nasty damage dealing and protective abilities. Essentially very, very dangerous brutes, but hopefully something that can be outmanouvered and outplayed.​
 
Just caught up on this quest over the last five days from where I left off in late 2014.
This is some excellent work here.
Kudos to MJ12, ES, Aleph and everyone else involved in crafting this.
And a special thank you to NonSequtur for the threadmarks.

That said, I'd like to raise one point from the post-LA heist aftermath:
MJ12 Commando said:
I just want to say, a few months later, yes the spear was cursed. It was being used to siphon away LaCroix's good luck to power al-Saud, which is a thing he does because he is a big huge jerk. Now, had you taken it, it would have been interesting until you figured out the curse, although when you did you could probably destroy the thing with PU 4 and free up the luck that was supposed to be going to al-Saud but had nowhere left to go because al-Saud was kind of permanently dead.
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Really?
Because I could have sworn that this:
MJ12 Commando said:
Loot...
So, choose three things you're looking for from this set of bulky or otherwise difficult to move objects. One of them has already been chosen for you.
[X] An old-style Iteration X quantum computer, potentially rich with valuable data.
[ ] A chest of ancient gold coins. It seems to lack any mystical significance, but that's a lot of gold.
[ ] Several old paintings which seem to have mystical power imbued in their paint and their artistry. Most of them show scenes which are terrifying and ever so slightly tinged with eroticism.
[ ] A long spear with an eternally bloody tip. There seems to be significant mystic power to the spear, but yet it seems to project an aura of falsehood.
[ ] A sizable collection of original film reels from the early days of Hollywood. Many of them seem to be using nitrocellulose, which makes them very old, and also very likely to catch on fire and/or explode under the right circumstances.
[ ] A file cabinet full of documents.
[ ] An Egyptian sarcophagus. Scans show that someone has stuffed it full of Semtex for an entirely inexplicable reason.
[ ] A large harp which plays itself as things move around it. The strings are a bright red fiber.
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Was an Evangelion reference.

I mean, after all the references made in Yinzheng's Interludes just before the return to LA by sticking her in a mini-EVA chassis, having neo-Shinji show up and sending them both to NERV Tokyo?
Dropping in a Spear of Cassius/Spear of Longinus as a loot option 4 updates later seemed rather appropriate.
Especially given what Dr Leon has been cooking with elements of Yinzheng's biology.

Or are you going with the Replica Spears instead?
They were disguised as swords until they activated, and the fluff description of your Sword of Mars?
MJ12 Commando said:
...and Plunder
Same thing. Choose three things in total from the moderately more convenient stuff that can be easily carried out. One has been chosen for you.
[X] Several briefcases worth of hundred dollar bills.
[ ] A leather bound book with vampire symbolism on it. The cover says that "Cain lives in death." The leather appears to not be cow leather.
[ ] Mystic jewelry which seems to call out to the hemophage vitae in Rose, suggesting that she can manipulate it somehow.
[ ] Sheet music which seems to spell out some sort of mystical musical ritual.
[ ] A chalice with a vibrant red liquid inside. Despite being unsealed and exposed to vacuum, the liquid has not evaporated. The liquid smells of human blood, but with significantly more mystical force.
[ ] A Hermetic Sword of Mars. Most Technocrats can identify these weapons-they were a common tool of House Janissary, wielded easily by even untrained men and women and capable of cleaving through even heavy cyborg armor.
[ ] Various hemophage icons with their own mystic properties. Rose doesn't really understand them, and doesn't really want to. Suffice to say she wants to have them recycled.
[ ] Ownership papers for various low-class housing projects in Los Angeles.
[ ] A gold-plated AK-47 which makes Rose actively uncomfortable. It resonates with death and more than its share of war crimes.
[ ] A set of medals and an officer's uniform from the Napoleonic Wars, very well preserved.
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Pretty suggestive.
Spear of Longinus - EvaWiki - An Evangelion Wiki - EvaGeeks.org

Or I could just be seeing stuff that isn't there.
Maybe.
 
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So... one thought to throw in there... these guys aren't killbots in the way that murderkitty is/was. They're Control. They're not going to come out of the vats and immediately start attacking (unless we're there to greet them and immediately attack them). Even if we do manage a respectable alpha strike, there's a good chance that some of them will try to escape and go to ground, rather than immediately fighting back. They also, once split up into a number of independent actors, aren't necessarily going to get along all that well with each other. There's a lot of vagueness here, but straightforward combat this isn't. Various thoughts (I apologize to the degree that these are retreads)...

- If we decide that letting them even get their bearings is dangerous and that we have to make this a combat scene from the get-go, that means that we have to somehow find out where they're going to be decanted and get a viable threat to that area pretty much immediately. That is a separate nontrivial task.

- Some of the augs they get are pretty much combat-only. Others are still useful for the warm war before the hot war. If we're not going straight to the hot war, that's pertinent. The more time we take before hot war, the more pertinent that is.

- The "how does the interrogation go" question is highly likely to influence the form of confrontation we have with the constructs.

- They probably won't coordinate all that well, and their creator certainly isn't going to contain them. The question then comes of how many bodies are being made, who the bodies are being made for, and what each of them wants a body for. "Take Tokyo by force of personal arms" isn't it. If they manage to get in, and have some lead time before we get there, they're likely to split up and each go off to do their own thing. This is good (because it means we don't necessarily have to face all of them at once) and bad (because of whatever they'll be doing in the meantime - likely to both make them harder to take out and have side effects that we'd consider negative).

When we're thinking about what each of them might do given time, it seems like it might be worth considering who else might show up to the party....
- There's a cell of the progenitor hivemind hanging out in (probably) London.
- We never did take out the murderkitty.
- Aleph still has deep hooks in Yinzheng, and is therefore quite aware that Something Is Going Down In Tokyo.
- Whatever Serafina and Alicia have been doing in the background (supply line sabotage of their own?) (I suppose it's technically possible that Serafina is masquerading as her own Beta-clone - or could have been, if we'd voted that way. Alicia could certainly have been doing it.)
 
Sirrocco said:
So... one thought to throw in there... these guys aren't killbots in the way that murderkitty is/was. They're Control. They're not going to come out of the vats and immediately start attacking (unless we're there to greet them and immediately attack them). Even if we do manage a respectable alpha strike, there's a good chance that some of them will try to escape and go to ground, rather than immediately fighting back. They also, once split up into a number of independent actors, aren't necessarily going to get along all that well with each other. There's a lot of vagueness here, but straightforward combat this isn't. Various thoughts (I apologize to the degree that these are retreads)...

- If we decide that letting them even get their bearings is dangerous and that we have to make this a combat scene from the get-go, that means that we have to somehow find out where they're going to be decanted and get a viable threat to that area pretty much immediately. That is a separate nontrivial task.

- Some of the augs they get are pretty much combat-only. Others are still useful for the warm war before the hot war. If we're not going straight to the hot war, that's pertinent. The more time we take before hot war, the more pertinent that is.

- The "how does the interrogation go" question is highly likely to influence the form of confrontation we have with the constructs.

- They probably won't coordinate all that well, and their creator certainly isn't going to contain them. The question then comes of how many bodies are being made, who the bodies are being made for, and what each of them wants a body for. "Take Tokyo by force of personal arms" isn't it. If they manage to get in, and have some lead time before we get there, they're likely to split up and each go off to do their own thing. This is good (because it means we don't necessarily have to face all of them at once) and bad (because of whatever they'll be doing in the meantime - likely to both make them harder to take out and have side effects that we'd consider negative).
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This is a good argument for Nixing regen. I'm sold on Plan Aleph.

Aleph said:
Okay, so assuming that we'll have to fight everything but the three sacrifices we choose:

Rush Production
[ ] The original plan was to make them nearly invincible-using the same protomatter as the ASE and the same preternatural toughness several of the EXEMPLAR Is and IIs have. Unfortunately, he can't manage that and will have to make do with mere high-end combat construct toughness.
This does not look friendly, but is probably possible to circumvent by MOAR FORCE.​
[X] Like a few of the EXEMPLAR IIs and the ASE, EXEMPLAR IV was supposed to be fast. So fast they might as well have tactical teleportation and an immensely accelerated timeframe. Unfortunately, they're going to have to rely on merely superhuman agility and speed instead.
Hahaha fuck no we do not want them to have this extra actions are murder. Hmm. Probably Vulgar murder, but still murder.​
[ ] The extradimensional myofibrils which he harvested and reverse-engineered from the ASE are a no-go. The EXEMPLAR IV will be strong, but not "beat a tank to death with its own turret" strong.
Yeah, we can probably cope with this.​
[ ] The ASE's internal weapons and defenses were not capable of being duplicated in time for his rush production. They'll have to rely on, you know. Guns. And armor. And their own personal skill, rather than projecting forcefields of death.
... forcefields of death sound like they're going to suck for us. But there are more important things to avoid.​
[X] The EXEMPLAR IVs were supposed to have Primium-infused bones and a broad-spectrum shield against reality deviance and technocratic procedures. Rush jobs mean they're closer to Rose or Vanessas in innate countermagic than to the Anathema.
HAHAHA WE DO NOT WANT THEM TO HAVE COUNTERMAGIC AGAINST OUR SPHERES.​
[X] The regeneration tech that Rose and combat homonculi have didn't play well with the chimeric construction of the EXEMPLAR IV. They heal with accelerated speed, but only moderately faster than humans.
Given how hard to kill Rose has proven, I don't think we want the EXEMPLAR IVs to be equally durable.​
[ ] He hasn't had time to integrate the instinct package to manage the senses of the EXEMPLAR IV. It will only have human-equivalent senses.
We can probably cope with this.​

In summary:
  • Super-Senses and Super-Strength we can probably deal with.
  • Death Forcefields and Super-Toughness are going to suck big-time and we want to start thinking of counters immediately.
  • Super-Speed, Innate Countermagic and Super-Regeneration will fuck us over hard.
These things are avatars of Control Incarnae, and I do not want to let them exist on Earth for any length of time whatsoever, because they are bullshit supergeniuses with Sphere magic and insane dicepools and Conditioning codes. We should probably make them die with maximum speed.
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If they do get away wounded, they need institutional support, which means that we need political clout, which means cleaning political house. Which means either NWO or the Progs.
 
Sirrocco said:
When we're thinking about what each of them might do given time, it seems like it might be worth considering who else might show up to the party....
- There's a cell of the progenitor hivemind hanging out in (probably) London.
- We never did take out the murderkitty.
- Aleph still has deep hooks in Yinzheng, and is therefore quite aware that Something Is Going Down In Tokyo.
- Whatever Serafina and Alicia have been doing in the background (supply line sabotage of their own?) (I suppose it's technically possible that Serafina is masquerading as her own Beta-clone - or could have been, if we'd voted that way. Alicia could certainly have been doing it.)
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-Isobel was shot and killed in London. There was a baseline human recovered from the scene; whether she's subverted or not is unknown.
-Post-time jump, Aleph's loyalties are unknown.
-Ms Clock is still out there building her forces.
So is the Deathlord.
 
uju32 said:
-Isobel was shot and killed in London. There was a baseline human recovered from the scene; whether she's subverted or not is unknown.
-Post-time jump, Aleph's loyalties are unknown.
-Ms Clock is still out there building her forces.
So is the Deathlord.
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- Missed the bit about Isobel.
- Aleph's loyalties aren't completely known, but OOC, we have fairly strong reason to believe that he and his crew are opposed to Threat Null, and we know that he's informed. To the degree that he shows up, he'll likely be on our side.
- Ms Clock is still out there, but we've handed her some ugly political fires to put out with the false Serafina turning herself in to Cross. Also, Bastion mostly know what's up by now, which means that the ugly political fires get that much uglier. She *probably* isn't going to have all that much in the way of resources she can free up to apply here
--- sub-thought... She's more of a potential player than I'd originally thought. If one or more of the Control types manages to get settled in even marginally, they're likely to call on her for some manner of assistance. It's entirely possible that more than one of them will be calling on her for different kinds of assistance. Of course, she's still having Bastion problems. How she responds to that call is going to be... interesting - and may wind up taking her off the board as a piece. This is still the woman who spent over a decade in a false life as a sleeper agent and then immediately killed her apparently-beloved cat when called up. I could see at least some of them not caring if they spent her as a piece when they called for her help, and her getting into an over-extended position trying to provide it.
 
Sirrocco said:
- Ms Clock is still out there, but we've handed her some ugly political fires to put out with the false Serafina turning herself in to Cross. Also, Bastion mostly know what's up by now, which means that the ugly political fires get that much uglier. She *probably* isn't going to have all that much in the way of resources she can free up to apply here
--- sub-thought... She's more of a potential player than I'd originally thought. If one or more of the Control types manages to get settled in even marginally, they're likely to call on her for some manner of assistance. It's entirely possible that more than one of them will be calling on her for different kinds of assistance. Of course, she's still having Bastion problems. How she responds to that call is going to be... interesting - and may wind up taking her off the board as a piece. This is still the woman who spent over a decade in a false life as a sleeper agent and then immediately killed her apparently-beloved cat when called up. I could see at least some of them not caring if they spent her as a piece when they called for her help, and her getting into an over-extended position trying to provide it.
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Being Jamelia is Suffering.

(I really need to track down the orogin of that meme)
 
Sirrocco said:
- Missed the bit about Isobel.
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To be fair, it's always possible that Isobel faked that death, and simply laid in a false body for the Crat team; she was good enough with Life to pull it off.
But I suspect we'd have heard something by now.
Still keep an eye out until we can have someone confirm the kill.
Sirrocco said:
- Ms Clock is still out there, but we've handed her some ugly political fires to put out with the false Serafina turning herself in to Cross. Also, Bastion mostly know what's up by now, which means that the ugly political fires get that much uglier. She *probably* isn't going to have all that much in the way of resources she can free up to apply here
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She had the better part of a month to stockpile resources and shit after taking over our construct.
Using Jamelia's connections, and the MatTrans to funnel materials into hidey holes and reactivate multiple bases.
Pretty sure she is awash in resources. And blackmail.
She'd have known this day was coming.



Oh yeah, I've been wondering where Clock, Leon et al got access to recent enough Serafina tapes that they could make a beta-fork.
And why they made a beta-fork instead of an alpha-fork.
Then I remembered this:
Sagging, Alicia sighs. "So they sent an eight-Vanessa grab-team for Sera's 'corpse'. No lifesigns - because the suit was the only thing keeping her brain alive. I managed to get a shutdown memeplex implemented in the labs, played over the speakers and grabbed five of the Vanessas. Killed the other three. Installed an alpha fork in this one, betas in three more, and set the last one up with false memories. Had one of the betas take the false memory one and the corpses in the black chopper and deliberately crash it, then execute the false memory one. Haven't heard from that Vanessa since - I set it up to wipe its own memories and walk into a hospital as someone suffering from a head injury. I… I hope that Panopticon is chasing the Damage Control team that they should get from trawling the executed one.
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Looks like the Vanessa that was supposed to mindwipe itself got captured and it's memories pulled.
 
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EarthScorpion said:
Quickly and efficiently, the Director's underlings load the profiles into the system. "Ready to go on your command, Director," the team lead says.
"You heard the woman," Ladislao tells the Syndic. "Would you do the honours?"
Financier al-Saud smirks a dreadful, reptilian, lazy smile. "With pleasure," he says.
His second pair of eyelids blink. His forked-tongue lashes out, tasting the air. Director Ladislao doesn't notice a thing. He's been paid not to notice.
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Anyone remember what happened to this dude?
Al-Saud subverted a pretty large chunk of senior people before he got murked, and Clock can probably pick up from where he left off.
I mean, Director level access is pretty huge, and I doubt the only guys he bought were in Mexico.
 
uju32 said:
Just caught up on this quest over the last five days from where I left off in late 2014.
This is some excellent work here.
Kudos to MJ12, ES, Aleph and everyone else involved in crafting this.
And a special thank you to NonSequtur for the threadmarks.

That said, I'd like to raise one point from the post-LA heist aftermath:
Really?
Because I could have sworn that this:

Was an Evangelion reference.

I mean, after all the references made in Yinzheng's Interludes just before the return to LA by sticking her in a mini-EVA chassis, having neo-Shinji show up and sending them both to NERV Tokyo?
Dropping in a Spear of Cassius/Spear of Longinus as a loot option 4 updates later seemed rather appropriate.
Especially given what Dr Leon has been cooking with elements of Yinzheng's biology.

Or are you going with the Replica Spears instead?
They were disguised as swords until they activated, and the fluff description of your Sword of Mars?

Pretty suggestive.
Spear of Longinus - EvaWiki - An Evangelion Wiki - EvaGeeks.org

Or I could just be seeing stuff that isn't there.
Maybe.
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Holy Lance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You think Eva wasn't referencing other stuff as well?
 
uju32 said:
Oh yeah, I've been wondering where Clock, Leon et al got access to recent enough Serafina tapes that they could make a beta-fork.
And why they made a beta-fork instead of an alpha-fork.
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Just remember what words mean. When someone says "alpha fork", they mean "magic-using copy". And when they say "beta fork", they mean "unenlightened copy".

As for where they got them? Probably from the Progenitors and Sera's standard backups.
 
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