[X] Some of the truth
-> [X] The stuff about Leon Gregor being an untrustworthy fucker who you shouldn't trust as far as you can throw him (which is pretty far if you're Kessler or Rose or Yinzheng).
-> [X] Not, however, any wacky conspiracy theories about possibly all of Control being evil aliens because we can't exactly prove it at this point and it might distract things. Also, bluntly, we don't have a very high trust level with her right now - but she has spent time around Leon and thus she can believe that he's a treacherous fuckwit who'd tried to kill a co-worker and reinstantiate her as his research slave easily.
 
Janice XVI: “... Is That They Never End”
Janice XVI: "... Is That They Never End"

The world shifts all around them. While the immediate area still has the table and the seat and the television, the walls fold away. They're replaced by tall grey trees topped with grey leaves. Mist rises out from the leaf-mould covered ground. Despite the height of the trees, though, she can just about see a cavern roof far, far overhead. Janice can't see or feel Chris anymore. The air tastes of autumn and oncoming snow.

She's in a strange liminal world as she talks to her past self, to Ami. She's very close to a death she - they - died once already. Her heartbeat feels weak. Janice sincerely hopes that's just a measure of her inner meditative focus as she explains things and hopes that this will help establish common ground with the dead woman.

"And that's about it," she says with a sigh. "You're dead. My past life. You died in the early eighties, and it's now 2016. I tried to contact you when I was younger and it left me with nightmares for years. Nightmares about… about how we died. You went down into a Nephandic pit and… and fought to the very last."

"I'm sorry," Ami says. Her shoulders slump.

"You're sorry?" That's completely unexpected. Janice doesn't know what to say.

"I marked myself with Do Not Revive. I thought my memories would die with me." She shakes her head. "I didn't want to burden anyone else with them. Has… has it been bad for you?"

"A decade of nightmares," Janice says softly. "Dreams of killing. Dreams of… dreams of the place you died."

"I'm sorry."

It's all wrong. She's spent years trying to cope with the horrors her past life has shown her - and on top of that, she found out they were a Technocratic murderer. Before that, she had thought it a monster - maybe a werewolf.But now she's talking to her, it's a sorrowful, very human woman.

"The Union probably has my backups still in some dusty archive, but," Ami continues, pinching the bridge of her nose, "well, they seem to have respected that. I mean, hmm - well, I have no idea how reincarnation works with revival. But from the dates you mentioned, you were born the same day I died. So I suppose I really didn't want to come back." She shakes her head. "Oh! I wonder if that's why successful revival rates drop precipitously after a few days. I don't know. I feel brain degradation is a much… cleaner explanation."

There are fewer tears than she might have thought. Less rage, either. That's putting Janice on edge. She knows Ami was a Technocratic assassin. "You seem surprisingly… at ease with being a past-life," she says.

"I think I would have seen things differently when I was still alive," Ami says, with a wry smile. "But I feel dead. You know? Well, no, you don't know. I couldn't explain it. But yeah. I don't think I ever died before. Other people I know flatlined and needed crash-kits, but I'm super-bad at dying. Good at lying on the floor until my body fixed up the lost limb, but bad at dying. And I remember everything now.""

"Remember everything?" Janice asks, slightly confused. Technocrats shouldn't be so… utterly willing to accept this kind of thing. She was expecting a tearful denial that she was dead. Maybe some kind of rage directed at the Traditions for stealing her… her mind backup or something. Not this kind of easy attitude.

Ami taps her fingers against the inside of the glass of the television. "Everything. Even things I don't ever remember remembering. I remember things from when I was tiny that I've never remembered. Like the first time I was stung by a hornet. I wasn't even two then."

"So you remember the spider that lived outside your window," Janice begins.

"That's Blade Runner. And that would be a false memory. I'm not a construct"

"Wait, that came out in…"

"1982."

"Oh. Right."

Sitting back, Ami crosses her legs. "Well, thank you for getting in touch. Being dead… it feels lighter. I'm not sure how to explain it - like I had a cold, but now I can breathe cleanly, or I was wearing training weights and now they've been taken off."

"Huh?"

"Yeah, those are terrible metaphors. Sorry, can't explain it. And it's been thirty years. The issues and the worries feel so much less pressing. So… how do I go about being a past life? Can I get a drink in here?"

"Uh…"

"I haven't had a drink in thirty years. I want to see what modern food is like. Have we managed to roll pod food yet?"

"No."

"Oh, thank fuck. That stuff never tastes right and people keep on pushing it. Sure, it's compact and great for missions, but I wouldn't want to eat it every day."

Yes, she really is very easy-going for a Technocratic murderer, Janice decides. And in itself, that's weird - because Janice gets told by other lazier people that she's too intense and that she really needs to take a break. But from what she's read about reincarnation, the basic nature of a soul changes little from life to life - and she certainly doesn't think she's secretly like that. Which means that Ami must be more like her than she's letting on. As she thinks about what the other woman has said, she begins to suspect she's being diverted by someone who's using the playful attitude as a shield.

Well, maybe she can try getting her past self drunk to get her to open up a bit. Focussing hard, she recalls one of those strangely nice things that Luke brews up. It's sort of a bit like a fruit wine, but kicks like a mule once it goes down. They normally drink it by the shotglass. Naturally, she dreams up a small wine glass of it for Ami.

"Hmm." The other woman raises the glass. "Cheers!" She takes a sip, and her eyebrows rise. "Wow. Strong, but this is good!" Her past life raises her eyebrows at her. "Are you trying to get me drunk? Because you'll need to buy me dinner first if you want to get me into bed." She takes another sip. "Although I suppose I've been in bed with you all your life." Another sip. "So, would it be incest or mastubation to sleep with your own past life?"

"That's not a question I've ever considered," Janice says. Lies, if she is to be quite honest, but in her defence the only time that conversation had come up she had been a) in her twenties, b) drunk as a lord, and c) surrounded by Ecstatics.

"Honestly, me neither, until I became one," says Ami. "I don't even believe in reincarnation. Actually, are you sure I'm a past life? I might be your family spirit."

"Excuse me?"

"I was brought up practicing Shinto," she says, gesturing with her wine glass. "I haven't really followed it in years… well, I mean, years before I died… but I mean, if I died, I don't think I would reincarnate. Even by your doctrine as a Traditionalist, if I don't believe in it, it shouldn't happen, correct?"

"I believe in reincarnation," Janice points out.

"Perhaps, but I don't - and as the alleged reincarnate, don't I get a say in the matter? After all, when the alleged reincarnation happened, shouldn't it have been me and my beliefs determining my fate?"

"You know a lot about Traditionalist beliefs," Janice says, leaning in slightly. "Isn't that 'wrongthought'?"

"Please, it's a Nu-Woo thing to just glue words together. Well, or a German thing." Ami shrugs. "I was Damage Control, and one of my main roles was to work on the containment of biohazards. I'd go to jungles, hunt down monsters, that sort of thing. That meant I'd spend a lot of time cut off from central comms. I had to learn how to talk to people on the other side and interpret their RD descriptions of things because… well, try getting some suited data analyst to leave their air-conditioned office and get their white shirt dirty." She shrugs again. "I picked up a lot about how you guys operate and how you talk to each other."

"Hmm." Janice sniffs. There's a faint scent on the air. What Ami is saying doesn't smell like a lie - but there's a hint of deceit. She's being mislead in some way. "Sounds like you have quite an unusual background. How old are… were you?"

"What's there to say?" Ami says, with a sigh. "I was born in '34. I don't think there was much unusual about my childhood. Except it was in Nagasaki."

"Oh."

"Yes. 'Oh' indeed." She shakes her head. "My family died from the bomb, and I nearly died from the burns and then again from the radiation poisoning and then again from infections and… well, I didn't die when I should have. Several times." She laughs humorlessly. "I'm good at that. Though given I'm dead now, perhaps that shouldn't be something I say anymore."

"I'm sorry," Janice says, and means it.

Ami gives a weary one-shouldered shrug. "It's just how things happened. Now, I was a 'medical miracle' and that drew the attention of the Technocracy. They realised that I'd manifested genius, so they took me away to the US and got me top-end medical treatment. New lungs, new skin, all kinds of things that took very well to my irradiated genome."

"So they turned you into a weapon?"

"What, no!" Ami looks her straight in the eye. "I chose this. They actually wanted me to go into FACADE with an eye to working in Japan, but I wanted Damage Control. It was brightly coloured and they were heroic and of course, it was just past the Second World War which meant that Damage Control were the good guys, hunting down Nazi remnants and make the world better." She pauses, scrutinising Janice. "You don't look like you agree. Oh. Has Damage Control gone even further down the black combat gear path?"

"Yes," Janice says. "Super-human constructs dressed up as black-ops killers, kicking down doors and shooting people - that's what Damage Control means today." She pauses. "I worked on the same side as one recently. A beautiful killing machine. Like a murder-doll made in the shape of a woman."

Ami screws her face up. "Yuck. Well, that bastard Li will be happy. Oh, you probably wouldn't know the name, but back in the seventies and eighties, he was a young turk who I had a rather personal rivalry with who-"

"I think I know the name. He's now in charge of the Progenitors," Janice says, trying to remember what she does from reading things on TradWiki.

"Shit. That smug self-righteous Chinese bastard in charge? Of the entire Administration? What the hell happened that he got that much influence?" Ami pauses. "Oh, right, the Avatar Storm thing you mentioned? Yeah, I can see that. Take away everything in space, and that means Li's pet killer force can basically just launch a coup. You can't trust constructs. They'll just do what they're told to."

"I know," Janice agrees. "I've always felt that. It's… they haven't been built to be people first. They don't have childhoods, and that's…"

"... what makes you a person. I know, right? I'm me because of the events that made me - you can't just fill up a mind with injected false memories and… and expect them to be a sane normal human being" Ami smiles. "You know, you really don't sound like a blood-soaked witch. I've told you mine, so what's your background?"

Janice shrugs. "Not very unusual. Fairly well-off family, I was training to be a psychiatric nurse when one of the patients was… weird. He killed himself, and wrote messages all over the walls in his blood. I had a breakdown after that because… well, I was the one who found him and I couldn't get them out of my head, and… I Awakened."

It's just registering that Ami diverted her with a tragic story of a childhood. Was that even true? It didn't feel like she was lying - but Janice herself can fool those kind of tricks. Surely an assassin has better ways of covering up.

Though the thing about the Li man leading the Progenitors was real. Janice is sure about that bit. For one, it was un-prompted information.

"Fairly standard for a RD-induced stress-based Genius eruption," Ami says agreeably. "I'm surprised we didn't pick you up."

Janice nods. "I guess I slipped through the net," she says thoughtfully.

"Do you ever wonder what would have happened if we'd picked you up?"

"Sometimes."

"With a background like that? Progenitor or Ivory Tower psychologist," Ami says immediately. "Possibly Void Engineer as an outside thing, as they also look for 'ships councillor' positions." She grins. "The last one sounds fun. I went into space a few times and worked with them back in the fifties."

Janice folds her arms, as the wind howls overhead. "It's not going to work, you know," she says softly. "I've had better double agents than you try to make me doubt myself."

Ami looks genuinely puzzled, and that alone makes Janice suspicious because it's just a little too perfect. "I'm dead. I guess I quit the Technocracy," she says. "I'm on your side on the grounds that… look, either I'm some kind of family spirit or you're really my future life. Either way, you getting killed is bad for me. I'm not trying to talk you into changing sides."

"Really."

"Really!" Ami runs her hands through her short hair. "Though… you said you worked with a DC construct. That… doesn't sound common."

"It's not very common, no," Janic agrees. "We were in the Spy's Demise, being attacked by something that wanted to kill all of us there and-"

One eyebrow raises. "The Demise still exists?" Ami asks.

"... not any more."

"Oh." Ami cups her empty drink in both hands. "I mean, I guess we were trying to destroy it because it was a core recruiting house for the Adepts, but before that… I saw it when it wasn't a bar. Before the Virtual Adepts left. It was… interesting." She looks Janice in the eye. "I suppose I had a bit of sympathy for the Adepts. Some of their ideas were good. They just couldn't be reasonable and compromise."

"Mmm," Janice says noncommittally. "They tell things differently."

"Of course they do. I wonder, how many Adepts from before the split have you met? I certainly noticed that the newer breed, the ones who didn't remember how things used to be, were much more violent and even more arrogant. And they were pretty arrogant before!"

"True," Janice admits. She's getting a hang of Ami's patter now. Selene… heh, Selene would say she has the soul of a willow. She bends in the wind, diverts everything around her, always seems to spring back. Ami wants her to commiserate about Virtual Adept arrogance - and boy, there's a lot of that - and then she's probably going to divert things again away from the Progenitors as she talks about the Adepts back when they were Technocrats and all the time she's going to be open and tell lies made out of true statements.

So she's going to have to pin her down. Somehow.

"You're a surprise," she tells Ami, dreaming her up another drink.

"Thank you! I try not to be boring," the other woman says, raising her new glass.

"So, I contacted you, oh wise spirit, memory of who I once was-"

"Oh, don't be like that, we were getting on so well! Oh, I do have another question about you. I didn't get a very normal life, and… well, with the radiation damage and everything, I never got to have children. How about you?"

Another distraction. Janice ignores that. That's not something she's going to let herself be drawn into. "Please. I didn't contact you out of curiosity. I contacted you because I'm desperate. I was just lucky that you're… you, rather than the monster I thought you might be."

"I try not to be a monster," Ami says cheerfully. "And thank you for being so understanding about the fact that even though we are… were… uh, okay, having a problem with the tenses here, but you're a witch and I was a DC constable. Just because we spent our lives on different sides doesn't mean we can't be civil."

Gotcha. Inside her head - and isn't that a funny statement in a dreamworld? - Janice wants to dance out of joy. "But that's exactly the problem," she says. "Look. I don't like the Technocracy. I don't like its patriarchal hegemony. I don't like its neoliberal economics or its causal environmental damage. I don't like the way it pushes a model of gender equality where women have to act like men to get any respect. But," and this is hard to say, "things could be a lot worse. The current situation in New York City is… it's stable. We - the Traditions - don't do anything major to the Technocracy, and the Technocracy has called off the Pogrom. It's a war of words and ideas, not plasma guns and fireballs. Neither side has the resources to continue the war after 1999 happened.

"But hardliners don't get that. Both side's hardliners. I stumbled onto a conspiracy where a hardline breakaway faction of the Traditions - the Rogue Council - is planning something big. Some of them are literally madmen who live in the sewers. They'll try to kill a lot of people. Thousands. Maybe tens of thousands. And there's a man in the Technocracy who knows what they're planning - and he's planning to let it happen, maybe even weakening the defences that could stop it. Because… because some kind of magic creature killed his parents when he was young and now he wants revenge by wiping out everything. Even when from what I've heard, the only Convention-leader who would want this is Professor Li. Warren Roth wants to restart the Ascension War. All for revenge."

Janice takes a deep breath. Her hands are shaking. A cold wind has picked up. "I need your help because I'm trying to find a way to stop both of them. I think I've talked the Golden Chalice into going after the Traditionalists, but… I have to stop him. I don't care about the hardliners. The people on our side who I care about are people like… like a young woman who was hurt badly by vampires and who just wants to kill all the undead. Or even the stick-in-the-mud conservative Verbena who live out in the countryside because they're a bunch of isolated idiots who can't handle modern things - and so don't hurt anyone. And yes, even the Technocratic moderates too. One of my exes is now a Syndicate Financier and he's an utter jerk who left me, but he thinks he's doing things for the best.

"And I'm not sure the Technocracy is the real enemy, anyway. I told you about the Demise. The thing out there - it was… some alien god-like spirit. It wasn't anything people could make. It went after the place where the moderates share information, where people talk under the table and try to stop big misunderstandings. I think it wanted the place destroyed and everyone inside dead, Technocrat and Traditionalist alike. If there's a new war between us, that sort of spirit will benefit. Them or the Nephandi.

"In the end, I'm doing this because I believe in talking things over. I don't think murder solves problems - and I don't think anyone even a little bit good will benefit from a new war. Not the Traditions, not the Technocracy, and certainly not the Sleepers that my lunatics and your lunatics are willing to sacrifice."

"Such a pretty little speech," Ami says, and the chirpiness is gone. There's sorrow there, and bitterness, and the tatters of something Janice can't even identify. "Look at me, how innocent I am and how I think everything can be resolved by talking."

"I think we should try!" Janice retorts. "I think murder is an easy solution - and one death leads to another, until everyone's dead and no one wins!"

That one hits like a whipcrack. Ami actually visibly flinches, and the glass in the TV screen separating her from Janice cracks. "It'll end in blood," she says softly. "It always does. You say you want to 'stop' him. So you're going to kill him."

"Or he's going to kill me," Janice agrees. "There is power in blood - and in sacrifice. And to stop everyone - and everything - I care about being destroyed, I'm willing."

"What happened to 'I believe in talking things out'?" Ami says, lips curling up. Her eyes are heavy and sullen.

"But I do still believe in talking. And that's why I did this. I believe in it enough that I'm not going to do what I could do and just pull what I could from you. That'd make me a hypocrite," Janice says solidly. "Tit for tat. Bargaining. I'm not going to dishonour your memory or insult you or torture you by treating you as something I can pillage. We'll make a deal, a proper vow - and that'll hold both of us to it. You help me - and in return, I'll pay the price."

"I'm dead," Ami says quietly. "I can't help you. Even if I wanted to."

"So what? I'm a witch. This isn't the first time I've made a deal with a dead woman. And I keep to my deals."



So, Janice and Ami are going to come to an arrangement - of sorts. From a certain point of view, Janice is making a temporary spirit pact with her own past life. From another point of view, she's tapping directly into the raw power within the human soul. And from another point of view, she's using ancient Verbena magic through her own rather eclectic magical style, and hammering it into shape with her raw belief in the power of talking to people.

Is this a thing Sphere magic can do? Possibly not. It's certainly some distance away from anything that respectable Western Magical Tradition sorts like Hermetics and Technocrats can fit into their paradigms. But the Hermetic spheres don't explain everything - especially not for a self-taught Verbena witch who's picked up things from all over. It's certainly deep, dark magic that messes around with the roots of the sphere and the very boundaries of life and death.

These things have been balanced with reference to the pact system in Summoners, for Mage: the Awakening. I've taken out the Duration and Sanction elements because I'll resolve them based on the Boons and Costs.

To Bargain With Time and Death

Pick any number of boons. Each one comes with an associated cost.

[ ] As an infiltrator and honey-trap, Ami was a consummate manipulator in quite a different way from Janice. Combined, they're inhumanly good. Janice gets +4 Etiquette (bringing her to 8). Of course, to clutch a Technocrat so closely makes you one in a way. Janice cannot use non-Technocrat-OK focusses for Life and Mind.
[ ] There are secret Technocratic codes that Ami knew that will never have been invalidated, since the woman who knew them died. This gives Janice access to a one-use, high-level Technocratic override Control-level code. While their pact lasts, Ami will be able to roll contested Willpower to try to take control for short periods - though she will not be able to do so for a total of more than two hours a day or more than for a few minutes at a time, and can't use magic while she's in control.
[ ] The truth is a powerful weapon. Ami will tell Janice the truth about her and why she died (which also gives her +2 Technocratic Lore). The cost of such knowledge will make her a party to the sins of the past, though, imparting the full karmic weight of who she was - and if she thought she was caught up in bad luck before, things will just get worse.
[ ] The body can remember what the soul once knew - and to a Verbena, the flesh is very mutable indeed. Reincarnated transgenic elements lurk within Janice, granting her boosts to her strength, dexterity and stamina. But these memory-echoes of Technocracy augmentations come with their own cost - without a regular cocktail of specialised drugs, she'll start to choke on clean air as her body demands more oxygen than her unenhanced lungs can provide, which would eventually leave her bed bound.
[ ] A soul can take on another form it once knew. Janice gains temporary access to a Spirit Charm which lets her assume Ami's shape, and ensures that the world itself treats her as if she was the dead woman - because she is. Note that this does not include any enhancements, which may produce questions if the Technocracy gets a close look. She'll owe her past life a debt, though - one she can call on to pay off some of the tangled up fate that surrounds them.
[ ] There's a myth wrapped around her former self, a myth of doomed love and tragedy. Everything she loved died quickly when it was pure, or became sick and poisoned and wasted away - and she endured, never dying when she should. Her Awakening in nuclear fire taught her that. Janice can take that myth for herself, gaining her Legendary Stamina and may take an action to heal one bashing or lethal damage for the duration of this pact. To embrace that myth means taking the good and the bad, though. The same myth will settle on her, tainting her life and those she interacts with.

To avoid the usual "voting pile-on" option, you also have to vote for how many options to take.

[ ] How many?
 
[x] There are secret Technocratic codes that Ami knew that will never have been invalidated, since the woman who knew them died. This gives Janice access to a one-use, high-level Technocratic override Control-level code. While their pact lasts, Ami will be able to roll contested Willpower to try to take control for short periods - though she will not be able to do so for a total of more than two hours a day or more than for a few minutes at a time, and can't use magic while she's in control.
[x] The truth is a powerful weapon. Ami will tell Janice the truth about her and why she died (which also gives her +2 Technocratic Lore). The cost of such knowledge will make her a party to the sins of the past, though, imparting the full karmic weight of who she was - and if she thought she was caught up in bad luck before, things will just get worse.

[x] 2
 
What are we going to do? Are we gonna kill Roth or talk people out of things?

Because transgenic mods sound like the sort of thing that is good for one last dance.
 
"Yes," Janice says. "Super-human constructs dressed up as black-ops killers, kicking down doors and shooting people - that's what Damage Control means today." She pauses. "I worked on the same side as one recently. A beautiful killing machine. Like a murder-doll made in the shape of a woman."

Ami screws her face up. "Yuck. Well, that bastard Li will be happy. Oh, you probably wouldn't know the name, but back in the seventies and eighties, he was a young turk who I had a rather personal rivalry with who-"

"I think I know the name. He's now in charge of the Progenitors," Janice says, trying to remember what she does from reading things on TradWiki.

"Shit. That smug self-righteous Chinese bastard in charge? Of the entire Administration? What the hell happened that he got that much influence?" Ami pauses. "Oh, right, the Avatar Storm thing you mentioned? Yeah, I can see that. Take away everything in space, and that means Li's pet killer force can basically just launch a coup. You can't trust constructs. They'll just do what they're told to."

"I know," Janice agrees. "I've always felt that. It's… they haven't been built to be people first. They don't have childhoods, and that's…"

And here we see the hypocritical bigotry inherent in the Traditionalist system! Grrrrrrrrrr.

: P

But seriously Janice, that's a blind spot that makes you kinda a hypocritical; Rose, for instance, might not be the traditional kind of person that you're used to, but she's still a person. Constructs still have a long ways to go


[X] The truth is a powerful weapon. Ami will tell Janice the truth about her and why she died (which also gives her +2 Technocratic Lore). The cost of such knowledge will make her a party to the sins of the past, though, imparting the full karmic weight of who she was - and if she thought she was caught up in bad luck before, things will just get worse.

This one could be useful, and combined with the consequences of this one:

[x] A soul can take on another form it once knew. Janice gains temporary access to a Spirit Charm which lets her assume Ami's shape, and ensures that the world itself treats her as if she was the dead woman - because she is. Note that this does not include any enhancements, which may produce questions if the Technocracy gets a close look. She'll owe her past life a debt, though - one she can call on to pay off some of the tangled up fate that surrounds them.

would be an interesting story. And either way these seem to be longer therm things that If she does now, oh well, they get pushed off to the next incarnation again :V (Also I'm kinda curious about said Truth)

And then I'm wondering about adding one of the following two on to either settle more into the history or to boost that [Persuade] Option

[ ] There's a myth wrapped around her former self, a myth of doomed love and tragedy. Everything she loved died quickly when it was pure, or became sick and poisoned and wasted away - and she endured, never dying when she should. Her Awakening in nuclear fire taught her that. Janice can take that myth for herself, gaining her Legendary Stamina and may take an action to heal one bashing or lethal damage for the duration of this pact. To embrace that myth means taking the good and the bad, though. The same myth will settle on her, tainting her life and those she interacts with.

[ ] As an infiltrator and honey-trap, Ami was a consummate manipulator in quite a different way from Janice. Combined, they're inhumanly good. Janice gets +4 Etiquette (bringing her to 8). Of course, to clutch a Technocrat so closely makes you one in a way. Janice cannot use non-Technocrat-OK focusses for Life and Mind.


[X] How many? 3
 
I think these choices break down into different plans. And I think the worst results will come from not committing fully to a single plan. Since we can assume that the author is not out to penalize deviation from the rails, the puzzle could be what choices are for what plan and not which plan is right.

Plan Infiltrate And Talk It Out could be
  • Etiquette
  • Override
  • Lore
  • Ami-form

This is survivable, but also might sacrifice Janice's place in the Traditions and her friendships due to the bad luck and the loss of witchiness for Etiquette. Is that permanent?

Plan Burn Bright, Burn Out could be
  • Override
  • Lore
  • Warform
  • Legendary Stamina

This one should end in death before the doom that comes with Legendary Stamina hits people Janice loves. This should not include Ettiquette because that hampers Janice's combat capacity or Ami-form because Janice should settle debts before she gets ended.

Plan Infiltrate, Assassinate, Exfiltrate could be
  • Overide
  • Ami-form
  • Legendary Stamina

I often make choices that keep stories going, to their detriment. This list probably reflects that. Janice has debt to her past life which is more narrative fuel, and all she has to do is never love anything ever again as a nearly unkillable hermit... Yeah. Maybe not. Dunno.

[X] There are secret Technocratic codes that Ami knew
[X] A soul can take on another form it once knew.
[X] There's a myth wrapped around her former self

[3] How many?


This is my first post in a quest.

I admired the catch-all system of spheres when I first picked up a copy of Mage in maybe '94 or so and played and ran Mage back in the 'Nineties and early 'Aughts, but never as much as I'd have liked. It's nice both to see the system's potential explored so well and its flaws addressed. Also, I enjoy this story quite a bit.

Edit: I am swayn.

[X] As an infiltrator and honey-trap, Ami was a consummate manipulator
[X] There are secret Technocratic codes
[X] The truth is a powerful weapon.
[X] A soul can take on another form it once knew.

[4] How many?

Though swayed, I still vote for Ami-form for utility and wanting to see what Ami wants. Debt is
interesting.
 
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Right. First off, keep our eyes on the ultimate goal: Stop Roth. Not "get shiny boons". So. We seem to have three paths here - Kill Roth, Negotiate and a possible third option of Infiltrate The Union which... yeah, I can't see how that could be leveraged usefully. The more boons we take, the higher the price, so we should restrict ourselves to what we need.

Second, Roth wants a fight. Roth is built for a fight. Roth has tremendous backing in a fight, including an ATLAS unit and whatever the fuck else he's brought. I do not think trying to kill Roth is a good plan - it's going to be the hardest option and narratively it's the least true to Janice's beliefs. And it's a short-term fix that might make things worse in the long run. Given Roth's personality, there's no way he doesn't have a resurrection plan for himself, and it would be very hard for Janice to stop that. He might not be back for this plan, but he'll be around for the next one - and angry. Personally angry, at Janice. Even if she succeeds at putting him down for good, he'll have instructions in his will to set pro-Ascension-War schemes into action that use his death as a rallying point if he can't be revived. Enhancements and Legendary Stamina are both very Fighty things. Shapeshift is less of a fighty thing, but is still more a get-close-and-stab him thing that's most useful for assassination.

By contrast, Socialite makes Janice an epic negotiator, that one-use Technocratic code can potentially neutralise the ATLAS unit, and The Truth might give us ammunition in our debate. Hmm. Therefore, my vote will be:

To Bargain With Time and Death
[X] 2 boons
->([?] 3 boons)

[X] As an infiltrator and honey-trap, Ami was a consummate manipulator in quite a different way from Janice. Combined, they're inhumanly good. Janice gets +4 Etiquette (bringing her to 8). Of course, to clutch a Technocrat so closely makes you one in a way. Janice cannot use non-Technocrat-OK focusses for Life and Mind.
[X] There are secret Technocratic codes that Ami knew that will never have been invalidated, since the woman who knew them died. This gives Janice access to a one-use, high-level Technocratic override Control-level code. While their pact lasts, Ami will be able to roll contested Willpower to try to take control for short periods - though she will not be able to do so for a total of more than two hours a day or more than for a few minutes at a time, and can't use magic while she's in control.
->([?] The truth is a powerful weapon. Ami will tell Janice the truth about her and why she died (which also gives her +2 Technocratic Lore). The cost of such knowledge will make her a party to the sins of the past, though, imparting the full karmic weight of who she was - and if she thought she was caught up in bad luck before, things will just get worse.)

Okay, so, the logic here. I'm going with Plan Negotiate, with a possible sub-branch of Martyrdom. Janice is going to boost her social pools to epic levels. She's perfectly capable of using 'Crat-OK Mind focuses in the same way Jamelia does - she was originally a psychologist, after all - so that probably won't cripple her too badly. Ami might be able to take over, but I think we've talked her into the same goal. Use of that one-time code can get us close to Roth and shut down or subvert his ATLAS unit if he has it with him (or otherwise deprive him of assets with which he could bring overwhelming force to bear on us). Then we talk him down. We hammer him in his psychological weak spots, and we exploit them mercilessly.

The Truth about Ami is important. But I don't think it's immediately relevant to Roth. It's tied up in Starling and his fall to the Nephandi, and we might be able to work that into turning Roth against the Nephandi, but I'm not keen on trying. I'm open to being convinced otherwise, and I'm leaving it unticked in my selection to show that. But even with the good karma of having saved a whole city, inheriting Ami's debts is going to land Janice firmly back in the red fast enough to give any nearby Euthanatoi whiplash.

We may not be able to talk Roth down. If we as a playerbase are pretty sure that we can't - if Janice is pretty sure that she can't, and that killing him will accomplish even less (remember my point above about his plans for his own death) - then I advocate going for The Truth as well. In that sub-branch, Janice plans to play the martyr and let him kill her after using Ami's knowledge about the Technocracy and the ways it can turn rotten and ugly to talk him into an unguarded position; wiping her accumulated karma clean and fuelling a spell to change him with her sacrifice.

So yes. That's my position. Whether I go for straight Negotiate or the sub-branch of Martyrdom is up to the thread consensus on whether we stand a decent chance at hammering him into submission, or at least diverting him towards something else.
 
Looking to minimize weaknesses/downsides here:

[ ] As an infiltrator and honey-trap, Ami was a consummate manipulator in quite a different way from Janice. Combined, they're inhumanly good. Janice gets +4 Etiquette (bringing her to 8). Of course, to clutch a Technocrat so closely makes you one in a way. Janice cannot use non-Technocrat-OK focusses for Life and Mind.
[ ] The body can remember what the soul once knew - and to a Verbena, the flesh is very mutable indeed. Reincarnated transgenic elements lurk within Janice, granting her boosts to her strength, dexterity and stamina. But these memory-echoes of Technocracy augmentations come with their own cost - without a regular cocktail of specialised drugs, she'll start to choke on clean air as her body demands more oxygen than her unenhanced lungs can provide, which would eventually leave her bed bound.

The cost of the +Etiquette option seems likely to be utterly crippling for Janice's Life sphere, because very little of her Life uses Technocratic foci (Mind is much less of a problem, if still not great). But if she also takes the physical boosts, then inheritance of a Damage Control assassin's physical modifications is most definitely a viable Life focus that she can use to do a lot of things, so she'll retain a lot more utility and flexibility. Even if we're more interested in talking than fighting, the flexibility of infiltration methods afforded by physical mods seems like something that shouldn't be passed up. Janice has enough drugs in her paradigm to brew up the ones she'll need regardless.

Of course, if we don't care about Etiquette, then Janice can still use witchy magic for Life and doesn't need the extra focus.
 
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Looking to minimize weaknesses/downsides here:
Bad plan. That's putting us in debt for at least one thing we're not going to get full use out of - we're either going to talk or fight, we can't do both - and on top of that it's wasting a boon on something that we'd be better off specialising in. That is to say, if you want to talk, vote for two talking options. If you want to fight, vote for two fighting options. Don't try and generalise, because we're only going to get one shot at taking Roth down, and therefore anything that doesn't aid our chosen approach is useless.

Getting to Roth probably isn't going to be our main problem, and if you think we'll need to infiltrate, the Shapeshift thing is probably a better option, since it makes the world itself treat her as a Technocratic Damage Control agent. Physical boosts gives us +strength, +dex and +stamina plus a sideline in transgenic Life foci - it's a choice mostly based on being able to fite gud.
 
...

On the one hand, I don't want to treat Janice as disposable because she's not a "main character". (Though I'll note that by dint of getting an arc entirely to herself that she's probably gotten more screentime than, say, Donald. :V)

On the other hand, I can't help but think that the path where Janice learns the Truth is just simply a better story, however it turns out.
 
Bad plan. That's putting us in debt for at least one thing we're not going to get full use out of - we're either going to talk or fight, we can't do both - and on top of that it's wasting a boon on something that we'd be better off specialising in. That is to say, if you want to talk, vote for two talking options. If you want to fight, vote for two fighting options. Don't try and generalise, because we're only going to get one shot at taking Roth down, and therefore anything that doesn't aid our chosen approach is useless.

Getting to Roth probably isn't going to be our main problem, and if you think we'll need to infiltrate, the Shapeshift thing is probably a better option, since it makes the world itself treat her as a Technocratic Damage Control agent. Physical boosts gives us +strength, +dex and +stamina plus a sideline in transgenic Life foci - it's a choice mostly based on being able to fite gud.
From your "vote for two talking or two fighting options", I might have given the misimpression that I was backing getting those two as our only boons with no particular plan behind them. I wasn't; rather, I was pointing out that the one can mitigate the downside of the other pretty well and it might be worth taking them in combination. It's not a plan, it's a piece that can be stapled onto an existing plan which already includes the purchase of Etiquette so that we don't near-completely nuke our ability to use Life for the duration.

Aside from that, there's a lot to be said for specialization, but there's also a lot to be said for flexibility. If we get all talking or all fighting boons and then our plan blows up in our face- it becomes apparent that talking is impossible, or that we have no chance in direct combat- being able to default to the other and keep pressing forward is a nice option to have, particularly when we can see exactly what the cost is of each. In the case of the physical boosts, that's a Life procedure periodically and likely a Resources cost to Janice, as well as in the long term providing anyone who knows about her medicine with a focus for tracking her down by looking at drug acquisitions. As I see it, none of those are a serious enough cost to justify not hedging our bets by bringing some additional options going into this. Certainly if we go with your plan to talk and then suicide to achieve our objectives, the total cost of taking the physical boosts drops extremely low- the time required for one Life procedure to stave off withdrawal for the duration of the mission, and that's it.
 
From your "vote for two talking or two fighting options", I might have given the misimpression that I was backing getting those two as our only boons with no particular plan behind them. I wasn't; rather, I was pointing out that the one can mitigate the downside of the other pretty well and it might be worth taking them in combination. It's not a plan, it's a piece that can be stapled onto an existing plan which already includes the purchase of Etiquette so that we don't near-completely nuke our ability to use Life for the duration.
What?

I'm not seeing it, frankly.

I can only assume that you mean the removal of non-Technocrat-OK foci for Life helps with the needing drugs to not choke to death issue, but the issue with that is not taking the option doesn't mean we can't use Technocratic foci, and taking it doesn't seem to improve our use of said Technocratic stuff.
 
[X] 2 boons
->([?] 3 boons)

[X] As an infiltrator and honey-trap, Ami was a consummate manipulator in quite a different way from Janice. Combined, they're inhumanly good. Janice gets +4 Etiquette (bringing her to 8). Of course, to clutch a Technocrat so closely makes you one in a way. Janice cannot use non-Technocrat-OK focusses for Life and Mind.
[X] There are secret Technocratic codes that Ami knew that will never have been invalidated, since the woman who knew them died. This gives Janice access to a one-use, high-level Technocratic override Control-level code. While their pact lasts, Ami will be able to roll contested Willpower to try to take control for short periods - though she will not be able to do so for a total of more than two hours a day or more than for a few minutes at a time, and can't use magic while she's in control.
->([?] The truth is a powerful weapon. Ami will tell Janice the truth about her and why she died (which also gives her +2 Technocratic Lore). The cost of such knowledge will make her a party to the sins of the past, though, imparting the full karmic weight of who she was - and if she thought she was caught up in bad luck before, things will just get worse.)


Mostly because i am curious. I don't care much for the plan in itself so long as we get the truth.
 
Hmm.

I think we want The Truth, if we're going to try negotiating.

The thing is, Roth is currently trying to force the Technocracy into a hard-line stance with what comes very close to being a false-flag attack.

Roth is pro-Pogrom because his parents were killed by some supernaturals. Possibly mages.

Vigilance carried out false-flag attacks. Explicitly. They had specific tools and permissions to pretend to be Traditions mages.

Roth's parents were in a high-profile, important position - and weren't Technocrats.

I don't think Ami Shirai was involved in killing his parents - probably - but actual facts that Roth can look up independently are very likely to be necessary for convincing him of anything, and I think I see a path towards turning Roth against his current methods.

[x] 3 boons

[x] As an infiltrator and honey-trap, Ami was a consummate manipulator in quite a different way from Janice. Combined, they're inhumanly good. Janice gets +4 Etiquette (bringing her to 8). Of course, to clutch a Technocrat so closely makes you one in a way. Janice cannot use non-Technocrat-OK focusses for Life and Mind.
[x] There are secret Technocratic codes that Ami knew that will never have been invalidated, since the woman who knew them died. This gives Janice access to a one-use, high-level Technocratic override Control-level code. While their pact lasts, Ami will be able to roll contested Willpower to try to take control for short periods - though she will not be able to do so for a total of more than two hours a day or more than for a few minutes at a time, and can't use magic while she's in control.
[x] The truth is a powerful weapon. Ami will tell Janice the truth about her and why she died (which also gives her +2 Technocratic Lore). The cost of such knowledge will make her a party to the sins of the past, though, imparting the full karmic weight of who she was - and if she thought she was caught up in bad luck before, things will just get worse.
 
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What?

I'm not seeing it, frankly.

I can only assume that you mean the removal of non-Technocrat-OK foci for Life helps with the needing drugs to not choke to death issue, but the issue with that is not taking the option doesn't mean we can't use Technocratic foci, and taking it doesn't seem to improve our use of said Technocratic stuff.
No, the other way around. If we're taking Etiquette, we can't use non-Technocrat foci for Life; that leaves Janice mostly SOL in that department, because her paradigm is a very mystical one. If she wants to, say, heal herself, she could use some kind of divine gift, or she could get blessed bandages or something, but it's basically always going to be a logic for that a Technocrat wouldn't approve of. This is so crippling that she might as well not have Life as one of her spheres at all.

But if we have Technocratic physical mods then, as we see with Rose, she can basically excuse any personal physical modification or boost as Damage Control-approved transgenic boosts. Healing? Transgenic boosts make her regenerate rapidly, technocrat-OK. It provides some good Mind foci as well- pheromones, nonhuman neural structures baffling others' attempts at psychological attacks, hyperfocus due to unusual hormone levels, whatever. That helps quite a bit, because her paradigm doesn't support magic-that-she-doesn't-think-is-magic, so she can't apply the usual Technocrat excuses of "advanced training" or "strong will", because she believes that she knows when she's witching things up and so must do so deliberately, which is never Technocrat-approved.

This is an issue that I'd be willing to drop without a problem- I don't like arguing about this sort of thing anyway- but sending Janice into this mission largely bereft of both her Mind 4 and Life 2 seems like a terrible idea, and I don't see what Technocrat-approved foci she'll have to use them with if we take the Etiquette boon. Mind foci using her background as a psychologist was mentioned, which could work out- except that Janice believes her magic is magic, which should mean that she doesn't believe in hyperpsych-as-advanced-manipulation, she believes that if she's using her Arete at all then she's pushing magic onto people or amping up her own abilities with magic, and that's not Technocratic at all.
 
[X] 2 boons
->([?] 3 boons)

[X] As an infiltrator and honey-trap, Ami was a consummate manipulator in quite a different way from Janice. Combined, they're inhumanly good. Janice gets +4 Etiquette (bringing her to 8). Of course, to clutch a Technocrat so closely makes you one in a way. Janice cannot use non-Technocrat-OK focusses for Life and Mind.
[X] There are secret Technocratic codes that Ami knew that will never have been invalidated, since the woman who knew them died. This gives Janice access to a one-use, high-level Technocratic override Control-level code. While their pact lasts, Ami will be able to roll contested Willpower to try to take control for short periods - though she will not be able to do so for a total of more than two hours a day or more than for a few minutes at a time, and can't use magic while she's in control.
->([?] The truth is a powerful weapon. Ami will tell Janice the truth about her and why she died (which also gives her +2 Technocratic Lore). The cost of such knowledge will make her a party to the sins of the past, though, imparting the full karmic weight of who she was - and if she thought she was caught up in bad luck before, things will just get worse.)

Yeah I can follow the reasoning for Plan Aleph.

I'm a little worried about Ami who gives the impression of playing along for now without really buying what Janice is selling. Notice how she gives that big speech about accepting that's she's dead and that it feels free, all very inline with what a traditionalist would want to hear, and then shortly after she makes a statement about not believing in reincarnation.

The constant sense of misleading and diversion Janice is picking up makes me a little concerned that Ami is going to play nice right up to the point she can screw Janice over.
 
Hmm.

Yeah, okay, @Candesce has a point. And from a narrative view... I don't want to "spend" Janice's life just because she's a minor character, but I feel like The Truth will make this a better story, and give a Traditions mage a chance to attack the Technocracy to its face for its sins, which is clearly something that just needs to happen in a Traditions sidequest.

That it also probably increases our chances of succeeding is also a nice bonus.

So, mm, yeah, I'm backing Plan Martyr fully.

@DarkLight140, you do have a point about denying her Life foci... hmm. But, mm. Hmm.

... I guess if I'm going full Plan Martyr then the maintenance isn't really an issue, huh? And it does give us more of a chance to survive long enough to talk him into a vulnerable position.

Hmm.

That would make the costs... let's see...
  • Etiquette: Life/Mind foci restriction
  • Control code: Ami can try to take over
  • The Truth: Massive bad karma
  • Transgenics: Need drugs to not die
Hmm.

Yeah, okay, I... can see the logic behind Janice deciding that this is probably a suicide run, and she just needs to stay alive long enough to talk him into a weak spot before giving her life to snuff out this spark in the embers of the Ascension War and prevent humanity turning on one another and falling prey to Things like the Anathema. It also means that if by a freak miracle she somehow survives it, she's... hmm. Still in the karmic red (though not to a lethal level, since saving the city and preventing the War from restarting will be a big plus), and suddenly in a rather awkward position re: transgenic boosts. She might have to reach out to Donald without actually defecting and go "look, you owe me" to get over the initial hurdle.

Hmm.

Okay. Okay, I'm gonna go for Plan Martyr (surviving this will be awkward) and go for the four boons listed above.

[X] Plan Awkward Martyr
[X] 4 3 Boons.
[X] Hyper-Etiquette
[X] Control Code
[X] The Truth
[ ] Transgenics

... and then try to guide Janice through to survive so that Chris can find her and go "oh what the actual fuck", heheheh.

Edit: Transgenics don't allow Life foci; removed. It will still be somewhat awkward if she survives.
 
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Yeah, okay, I... can see the logic behind Janice deciding that this is probably a suicide run, and she just needs to stay alive long enough to talk him into a weak spot before giving her life to snuff out this spark in the embers of the Ascension War and prevent humanity turning on one another and falling prey to Things like the Anathema.
If you want her to stay alive long enough to do a thing, why not take the Legendary Stamina? It is all about staying alive.
 
If you want her to stay alive long enough to do a thing, why not take the Legendary Stamina? It is all about staying alive.
Firstly, because I'm mostly going for a martyrdom plan - I don't really think she's going to survive this, despite my hopes - and so "I don't die when I should" is sort of the opposite of what I want. And secondly because I don't think taking a karmic curse that isn't already earned - like Ami's actions are - is really in-character for Janice.

Plus if she does survive I'd like her to be able to actually, you know, live in semi-happiness.

Edit: Hmm. Though actually, I should probably get clarification on whether Janice a) has 'Crat-OK Mind/Life foci and b) can use Ami's Mind/Life foci. @EarthScorpion?
 
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I don't want to "spend" Janice's life just because she's a minor character, but I feel like The Truth will make this a better story, and give a Traditions mage a chance to attack the Technocracy to its face for its sins, which is clearly something that just needs to happen in a Traditions sidequest.
Honestly, without knowing the durations involved - any plan taking Etiquette may well be spending Janice's life, even if it doesn't get her killed.

Losing her ability to do Life magic is the kind of thing the Traditions and her local contacts are likely to notice, were she to try to go home again after all this is over.

Then again, if we don't take the transgenics, that might wear off before it became an issue. Might.

That said, having some focus for Life magic could be very important in this mission, so I'll probably add the Transgenics to my vote. Means that she can't go home even if she does survive, but that could be an interesting story in its own right.
 
Edit: Hmm. Though actually, I should probably get clarification on whether Janice a) has 'Crat-OK Mind/Life foci and b) can use Ami's Mind/Life foci. @EarthScorpion?

Mind-wise, thanks to that "Social Justice" speciality and that iron-hard certainty in "talking to people resolves things" and "people are fundamentally smart and capable of making good decisions - it's just they're lied to and coddled" she's not giving up much. Most of the loss is in esoteric things - for example, no astral travelling.

Life-wise? Lot more trouble. It even locks out a lot of her herbal medicine and homoeopathy stuff. Now, remember, she is only Life 2 - it's far from a primary character focus of hers - but it means she has to use actual drugs for their intended purposes and can't sense "life energy" - she has to do an actual diagnosis from what she remembers of it from med-school. Likewise, while she can do first aid very well, that's not much of a Life 2 self-heal for major injuries. Enough to stop you bleeding out and maybe even get you mobile again, but if you actually get shot? Bandaging it up isn't going to cut it.

And no, she can't use most of Ami's focusses. The Life ones tended to be a "I am a massively engineered supersoldier/comic book heroine" - which Janice is not - and the Mind ones that they don't have in common (ie, "talking to people, psychology, etc") likewise relied on things like "implanted Enrage plasmids" and the like.

Remember, Ami was more akin to the party's Kessler than the Serafina or even the Rose. She wasn't a lab Progenitor (which Rose is sort of dual-classed into) - she was a full-on Damage Control specialist. She didn't actually know how most of her implants worked in the way that Rose can explain how hers work, she was just trained in using them.
 
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Ah. Drat.

Yeah, okay, I'll just go with the 3-boon Plan Martyr, then. Stat boosts aren't worth that much. Etiquette I'm inclined to keep just because... bluntly, we need every bit of social help we can get, here.
 
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Clearly Janice needs to find some aliums to go munch on in order to gain their healing powers (as a Life 2 focus, not actual spirit charms). That's an Ami-OK focus, right? And still somewhat Verbena-ish.
 
Well, I'm convinced. This also might be the only chance we get to see what really happened to Ami, so I was inclined to choose it on that basis alone.

[x] 3 boons

[x] As an infiltrator and honey-trap, Ami was a consummate manipulator in quite a different way from Janice. Combined, they're inhumanly good. Janice gets +4 Etiquette (bringing her to 8). Of course, to clutch a Technocrat so closely makes you one in a way. Janice cannot use non-Technocrat-OK focusses for Life and Mind.
[x] There are secret Technocratic codes that Ami knew that will never have been invalidated, since the woman who knew them died. This gives Janice access to a one-use, high-level Technocratic override Control-level code. While their pact lasts, Ami will be able to roll contested Willpower to try to take control for short periods - though she will not be able to do so for a total of more than two hours a day or more than for a few minutes at a time, and can't use magic while she's in control.
[x] The truth is a powerful weapon. Ami will tell Janice the truth about her and why she died (which also gives her +2 Technocratic Lore). The cost of such knowledge will make her a party to the sins of the past, though, imparting the full karmic weight of who she was - and if she thought she was caught up in bad luck before, things will just get worse.
 
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