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Panopticon: A Game of Posthumans, Perniciousness, Paranoia, Politics, and Plasmaguns

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Cavalier said:
Because it'll tie up a loose end and a dangling plot thread while we're here in LA that will otherwise be finished up off-screen with "and then the Anathema murdered all the witnesses and you get nothing from all of this."
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Well it probably won't be the Anathema, because that thing showing up is a huge deal. Might as well send in some of Professor Li's Top Men, who'll do about the same thing in terms of failing to understand the significance of LaCroix's mad ramblings about Gahanna and Methuselahs.

Unless it is.

Katreus said:
Why is the Anathema chasing LaCroix anyway? If it really was just random 'crats really mad about the Camarilla taking the war hot, then fine, the dude knows nothing, he was a patsy the entire time. But the Anathema? And the Tyrants? Seriously, what does this dude know that high profile people on both sides so desperately want to know too (or make sure that no one else knows)?
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I thought it was fairly obvious-nobody can be allowed to know about al-Saud and his nature, because that's the kind of terrible revelation which might make life very hard for good Technocrats.

Also, because Threat Null is a creature of habit which loves wiping out loose ends. People who have had direct contact with it are either loyal or dead.
 
Cavalier said:
In retrospect if this is all we get out of coming to LA, then coming to LA was a waste of time and we could have consolidated all of these updates and effort into a single digital intrusion roll.
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Do you remember what we had to do last time to get information off a secure airgapped network, at DNA? We had to break into it via the Digital Web. That's not an option when we know the Anathema's out there. Not unless we're really desperate. There are things that physical access can do that you can't do just with digital intrusion when you're up against secure networks - not without recourse to not-OK paradigms (and even then, you're up against whatever wards their systems have and risk being caught by basic Prime 1 detection).

And that ignores the general fact that plot comes from Doing Things. Yes, I considered following the LaCroix thread in the original vote, as a "well, since we're in LA anyway" side option. And then we found out he's actively being hunted down by the people who we don't want to find us. Since I'm not very attached to it, I then weighed up the in-character logic and narrative benefits and risks, and decided that it's not worth the risk of alerting the very mean people - not for revenge (since no characters have something personal against him), and not for what I see as the potential gains.

I'd rather spend the time on Rose character development via finding things out about Sera that she hid from her, and get some info that might hint at what Ms Clock's doing that isn't just harassing the party.
 
MJ12 Commando said:
I thought it was fairly obvious-nobody can be allowed to know about al-Saud and his nature, because that's the kind of terrible revelation which might make life very hard for good Technocrats.
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Oh. Right. I had forgotten that al-Saud had done some deals with LaCroix directly (instead of just An-Jin running around in a fury). So, that route would be LaCroix => al-Saud => untimely death in Mexico City => HVT Fiery Angel involved in that => Serafina.

Huh. If we don't pick that option, we're just essentially hoping that Serafina will herself notice the disappearance of her clone and come to investigate then? Presumably, we'll also be trying to dodge Clock and Co. at the same time because once Serafaker's access gets revoked, there really aren't that many people with the ability, knowledge, and motive to do this. (And I presume, we desperately hope that Clock is too busy fending off an inquiry to take much personal attention in this matter.) In that case, we're really picking for either possible character development opportunities / wider (non-Serafina) leads or possible information on what exactly might be coming after the team.

On the other hand, given that the pool of possible candidates is small, wouldn't the Anathema be tasked to come after the team in LA anyway?
 
[X] Walk in through the front entrance as a visitor, signing her name in the guest book and ask for a tour.
-> [X] Rather than coming as a visitor, try to find a way to persuade them she's a visiting doctor or cop. It won't be easy, though.
--> [X] Social worker, maybe from Family Services.

[X] Rather than picking a particular place, ask the guards for the location of the guy she's looking for. She's a social worker. She has a case. It's entirely reasonable that she would ask them to lead her to the man.
 
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Katreus said:
Huh. If we don't pick that option, we're just essentially hoping that Serafina will herself notice the disappearance of her clone and come to investigate then?
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No. The "breakdown of her clone" plan was something I made up on the spot because I was sleep deprived and trying to solve "Rose can't turn into a Nosferatu, Plan Unsexy Vampire is a wipe".

The plan was always to use the access to Progenitor networks to try to get Donald to use Super Accountancy to see if he can find clues that Serafina is alive and secretly making use of Progenitor networks to gather assets - which is a reasonable assumption if she's alive, because she's a support mage, needs resources to use her powers, and is a born Progenitor insider. As explained here.

...

Now, I just want to say, I'm not irrevocably opposed to the LaCroix thing. The problem as I see it is that, simply, I haven't been sold on why on earth our characters should put themselves in extreme danger by going after someone who's got most of the East Coast Technocracy gunning after them and who's probably on the Camarilla's Red List. Oh, certainly, there are OOC reasons - but things like "we might run into the Tyrants who we have no idea are running around behind the scenes" and "LaCroix might lead to the discovery of Resident involvement" aren't things which can withstand Henriette's Critic going "So why the hell are we doing this very stupid thing?" and Wufan's Traditionalist going "So, you're just 'following a hunch', hmm?".

As I said before, if Rose and Donald had been chased by lesbian ninja vampire assassins and Donald had been shot by them, things would be different and "Fuck that guy" would be a perfectly valid reason, but as the LA situation went down LaCroix was clearly - from the perspective of the PCs - nothing more than a pawn when the real enemies like the Anathema went after the people in the party who Control considered to be a threat. Likewise, if LaCroix hadn't then been betrayed by Ms Clock and was holding onto our Construct then we'd have plenty of reason to do unpleasant things to him (especially if he'd stolen the Barnes Sykes), but he's already screwed.
 
Sidequest vote

[X] Walk in through the front entrance as a visitor, signing her name in the guest book and ask for a tour.
-> [X] Rather than coming as a visitor, try to find a way to persuade them she's a visiting doctor or cop. It won't be easy, though.

[X] The Penitentiary, to the East. That's where they put the 'chronic' cases - people the hungry 'justice' (hah!) system doesn't want to let loose. He might well be there if someone's holding him as a prisoner or a hostage… like, say, the Camarilla or the 'Crats.
 
[x] Jamelia Belltower's recent activity;
[x] Serafina's recent search history;

Because Earthscorpion makes a good point about a lack of any real IC reason to go after Lacroix.:(
 
[x] Jamelia Belltower's recent activity;
[x] Serafina's recent search history;

Yeah, I... played Bloodlines, but LaCroix never really stuck with me all that much as a "KILL THE BASTARD" thing. Though that might be the massive ohgodwut from repeated wipes on fighting the Kuei-jin leader at the end.
 
EarthScorpion said:
As I said before, if Rose and Donald had been chased by lesbian ninja vampire assassins and Donald had been shot by them, things would be different and "Fuck that guy" would be a perfectly valid reason, but as the LA situation went down LaCroix was clearly - from the perspective of the PCs - nothing more than a pawn when the real enemies like the Anathema went after the people in the party who Control considered to be a threat.
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Dammit I knew deploying the Anathema was a mistake! :(

EarthScorpion said:
Likewise, if LaCroix hadn't then been betrayed by Ms Clock and was holding onto our Construct then we'd have plenty of reason to do unpleasant things to him (especially if he'd stolen the Barnes Sykes), but he's already screwed.
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Remember to have only one knaifu. More than one knaifu can ruin your laifu.

There is, however, at least one possible reason to go for LaCroix, and that's assets. Remember, Donald has basically no resources left, and LaCroix is old and at least smart enough to survive 200+ years in vampire society, where your average lifespan tends to much much shorter than normal people involved in organized crime. He probably has some holdings which are convertible, perhaps not easily, into assets. Things like "Weird Mystic Vampire Artifacts" you can render down into Prime Energy, gold coins, hard cash (vampire conservatism strikes again!)-things that vampires tend to hoard and can be convertible. This is of course probably not the most reliable way to get assets, or the safest way to get money and PE.

But it is a thing that you can also do while punching the secrets of al-Saud out of him.
 
MJ12 Commando said:
There is, however, at least one possible reason to go for LaCroix, and that's assets. Remember, Donald has basically no resources left, and LaCroix is old and at least smart enough to survive 200+ years in vampire society, where your average lifespan tends to much much shorter than normal people involved in organized crime. He probably has some holdings which are convertible, perhaps not easily, into assets. Things like "Weird Mystic Vampire Artifacts" you can render down into Prime Energy, gold coins, hard cash (vampire conservatism strikes again!)-things that vampires tend to hoard and can be convertible. This is of course probably not the most reliable way to get assets, or the safest way to get money and PE.

But it is a thing that you can also do while punching the secrets of al-Saud out of him.
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See, this is the thing which the people voting for LaCroix were lacking. Actual IC incentives to do it.

Hmm.

Which means that the theme of this option is not, in fact, "revenge" - because there isn't enough theme for revenge. What the theme is actually is more like "Woo! Heist caper with the original NPC party members and Wufan subbing in for Siddharth". And I don't care that "Woo! Heist movie" isn't technically a theme. The main thing here is not revenge on LaCroix - well, except for in the ironic Donald say, which is to say, "We broke into one of your last remaining safehouses and proved to you that it's not safe, and emptied it out" which is a more cerebral form of revenge. Which suits Donald quite well, because he doesn't like being poor - and untraceable assets are lovely [1].

Although the thought does occur to me. We still have access to Progenitor networks and Henriette will have established backdoors. If Henriette can get a blood sample from one of LaCroix's ghouls while they loot the safehouse, she can use Progenitor access to satellite networks to search for LaCroix with Corr 3, Matter 1 (because the dead vampire blood is a distinctive Matter pattern and Professor Li totally has ways of tracking down vampires). And then maybe Donald can have a little telephone conversation with him, with the threat of "if you don't tell me what I want to know, I'm telling the Camarilla where you are" hanging over his head.

(as opposed to the compact drone Henriette has zeroing in on his location, which has incendiaries and is also hanging over his head. Because he's not allowed to squeal on the party.)

[1] Donald is also a fan of how "Woo! Heist movie!" means that Rose and Henriette have to wear catsuits. Well, only Rose has to wear it, but Henriette is willing to give it a go to show good feeling. And then Wufan puts one on too because they're useful for black ops when breaking in, and so Donald is feeling left out so joins in. Catsuits for everyone!
 
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[X] Walk in through the front entrance as a visitor, signing her name in the guest book and ask for a tour.
-> [X] Rather than coming as a visitor, try to find a way to persuade them she's a visiting doctor or cop. It won't be easy, though.
--> [X] Social worker, maybe from Family Services.

[X] Serafina's recent search history;
[X] The construct's inventory and supply sources.
-> [X] RoSerafaker can skim assets just like Serafina except more easily because Serafaker is a construct director and she's in her chair.

If Donald can't leave the construct in debt to the tune of many times its total value and spirit away a small fraction of that safely laundered for his own use in a few hours with that sort of access then what sort of sneaky Syndic bastard is he?
[X] Plan Catsuit
 
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EarthScorpion said:
Donald is feeling left out so joins in.
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Rose: This plan has my full support.

Henriette: Oh come on, he'll be managing things remotely. Nobody will even see him in it.

Donald: As an efficiency expert I can assure you that the appropriate attire can significantly improve performance even if you're the only one who knows you're wearing it.

Henriette: Have you been doing mission control dressed up in ridiculous outfits this whole time? Wait, no, don't answer, I don't think I want to know.
 
LaCroix killed a lot of innocent people in the Construct, including (so far as Donald and Rose know) all of the Interns, so its a little... uh, to say there's no drive for revenge just because he didn't get anyone important. He's also a lead to what happened that night; and even if there are other leads to follow to the source of the attack I'm not sure they really have a reason to think Ms. Clock, who is another Jamelia Bottower for all they know, is necessarily more important there than LaCroix. More importantly, LaCroix is pretty vulnerable to fairly direct action in a way none of the fake-Construct members and its personnel are, he's in the area so they don't have to fly elsewhere to do it, and looting the corpse of his empire is certainly an appealing way for Donald to stock back up on his Resources merit.

Also OOC for god's sake let's finally get in touch with the Tyrants so we can take advantage of all the other contact building to finally start bringing together a coalition that can actually do something about the multi-headed hydra of Oversight.

[X] LaCroix and what forces are being pointed in his direction
[X] Serafina's recent search history
 
Hmm.

Okay. Fine. I still disagree with the primacy of revenge on LaCroix - because he's fucked by his actions and the existence of the Anathema makes him sort of pale compared to that - but as a group, we need assets, we need PE, and we need things which have been kept off the radar of the Technocracy by a paranoid old vampire. Taking them from someone who hurt us is just a plus.

(Also, remember, the coalition stuff is what Jamelia, Harlan, Kessler and Elsa are working on right now.)

[x] Jamelia Belltower's recent activity;

[X] LaCroix and what forces are being pointed in his direction;

I just want Ocean's Eleven Sykes' Four with the party dressed in catsuits. And yes, maybe for Donald to make intimidating phone calls to a disgraced vampire prince pumping him for information on the people who betrayed him, feeding off vampire spite and "fuck you" instincts, before Henriette causes a tragic gas main accident that sets him on all the fire. Is that so wrong?
 
[X] LaCroix and what forces are being pointed in his direction

I was iffy about the pure revenge angle, but stealing assets from him as well as pumping him for information makes it really worthwhile.
 
[X] Walk in through the front entrance as a visitor, signing her name in the guest book and ask for a tour.
-> [X] Rather than coming as a visitor, try to find a way to persuade them she's a visiting doctor or cop. It won't be easy, though.
--> [X] Social worker, maybe from Family Services.
[X] Rather than picking a particular place, ask the guards for the location of the guy she's looking for. She's a social worker. She has a case. It's entirely reasonable that she would ask them to lead her to the man.

On the other side of things... a vampire is, themselves, a significant source of PE. One of Primal Utility's Schticks is the trick of harvesting PE by selling things on the open market. Could we somehow arrange to sell LaCroix on the open market? I'm sure there'd be buyers.
 
Sirrocco said:
On the other side of things... a vampire is, themselves, a significant source of PE. One of Primal Utility's Schticks is the trick of gaining PE by selling things on the open market. Could we somehow arrange to sell LaCroix on the open market? I'm sure there'd be buyers.
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That, I think, is getting greedy. I don't trust the Camarilla not to sell us out to the Technocracy, and we can't sell him to the Technocracy for obvious reasons. Plus, I don't think we have the Prime 5 needed to scrub the horrific "Vampiric" Resonance that selling a vampire might have.
 
EarthScorpion said:
That, I think, is getting greedy. I don't trust the Camarilla not to sell us out to the Technocracy, and we can't sell him to the Technocracy for obvious reasons. Plus, I don't think we have the Prime 5 needed to scrub the horrific "Vampiric" Resonance that selling a vampire might have.
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Oh, it's a terrible idea. It would be literally blood money on basically every level. It's just an amusing image.
NonSequtur said:
Feed him to Rose. :V What could go wrong?
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She doesn't have the Primal Utility 5 either... and diablerie has all sorts of ugly built-in paradox flaws to play with.
 
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Cavalier said:
I'm not sure they really have a reason to think Ms. Clock, who is another Jamelia Bottower for all they know, is necessarily more important there than LaCroix.
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Are you sure? Jamelia knows that there is an Enlightened clone of her running around. We know she knows because An-Jin got that info from her mind. I know Jamelia is paranoid about opsec, but I don't see her not telling the party "BTW guyz, this one clone is really really dangerous. "
 
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