Meguca Micro Empire Quest (PMMM)

[inverted_helix]

@inverted_helix the latest update isn't in the index.

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Fixed, though leaving map as is for now since you wanted Kyouko's territory held separate anyways.

Also, does the courier business run better with veterans, or are they the same as greens?

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Besides the minimum number it's the same.

This seems really mean considering you gave us bonuses to the other scouting missions this turn. Once you have the new system worked out, you should make the switch all at once. Particularly since we're probably doing a diplomacy action against them this turn.

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I didn't assess a penalty for the quite low rolls on the other scouting areas either though. So I felt that balanced.

The last party we had gave us only a small boost, and that one had us naming ourselves.

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The previous year celebration actually gave a fairly significant moral boost as they go. You have to keep in mind that most morale changes are actually very small since morale is such a powerful stat.

 

[notgreat]

Fixed, though leaving map as is for now since you wanted Kyouko's territory held separate anyways.

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No newly revealed territory to the east of Kyouko's?

The previous year celebration actually gave a fairly significant moral boost as they go. You have to keep in mind that most morale changes are actually very small since morale is such a powerful stat.

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Well, we don't actually have any numbers, so I'm just going off of what the update said. "It seems like by the end of the party everyone is feeling just a bit better." and "Morale surged quite a bit this month, driven upwards by the lack of injuries or death, the celebration of a year's passage, and the start of a new business venture." The first specifically said "a bit" and the second made it sound like it was of middling importance.
Would be nice to have a more accurate morale meter, but oh well.

 

[veekie]

It seemed like in case one, we had a noticeable morale gain for ONE party action, and in case two, we 1) rolled great on hunting 2) reached a survival milestone and had a party 3) succeeded at opening a business.

Of course the latter has bigger gains. It's three things against one.

 

[Elder Haman]

Group sports day does that better while also raising morale. And it's definitely not worth the loss of an elite or two.

Notice how both other current plans don't have Kyouko hunting at all. She's training up elites and investigating poaching. And if we do have her pair hunt, it shouldn't be hard to specify to not pair her with someone who hates her.

I think you're vastly overestimating the effects of parties on our morale. Especially one where you bring in enemies too. The last party we had gave us only a small boost, and that one had us naming ourselves. Honestly, I bet that "Fun with magic" will be worth more in terms of morale, and it should give us hidden bonuses too. (Like, say, more potential associates, some automatic research, some training on agility/speed, and a bunch of other small things)

I could see dropping our area 7 diplomacy to do the party, Area 7 is so tiny after all. 1 person for a 1 cube territory, and it doesn't really lead anywhere on the map. Still, with that diplomacy bonus, I want to get it while we can.
Alternatively, we could go with Kinematic's plan and use QB to get us almost an extra person and use that for the party. It's worth less than a person though, so I'm not really in favor of it, but it could work.
Actually, checking again, we did our party on T13 last time. So to keep with that we should be doing the party next turn, not this turn.

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But we are not losing an elite. We are going from an 88% chance of an elite within 1 to 3 months to an 88% chance of an elite within 2 to 4 months. Since our morale is at 30% instead of the 50% we had previously achieved, I think trying for a 20% gain in morale is worth delaying getting an additional elite by a single month.

It fits in character too. We know we are having morale problems, the fight last month showed us that. We've just gone through a really rough patch in getting our grief cube stockpiles back up, and could certainly use a party. It's our two year anniversary, and we just got Kyouko to join us. What more perfect time for a party can we have then next month?

Also, the fact that the other plans are not including Kyouko in hunting at all next month is my point. Hunting is a big thing in Meguca culture. As much as we try to talk up the workers, and point out their contributions, everyone is going to view hunters as the providers. Including Kyouko in the hunting, at least her first month, is in my opinion a very important thing to integrating her with the group. I don't want to pair her with "safe" girls. I want her to be in pack hunting so that she rubs shoulders with the girls that don't like her, but with a buffer of more neutral girls to prevent any serious conflict from erupting.

We need to get the girls image of Kyouko to change from "The jerkass who refused to share territory and beat up those desperate for grief cubes" to "The jerkass who helped out when I got in a pinch while hunting and produces twice the grief cubes I can while also helping with other things besides hunting."

We also need to get Kyouko's image of the other girls to change from "Millstones that took Mami away from me and are likely to get us both killed," to "Comrades in arms that I need to protect and nurture."

Pack Hunting seems the most likely way to start that change. Follow it up with a big party. These things have a lot of natural synergy this turn.

It's pretty basic team building stuff. (It's why they have corporate outings that involve paintball followed by a party with lots of food - it's a basic bonding ritual for humans. Hunting together followed by a feast).

Kinda of the reason I prefer to do the party this turn instead of next is that I want to get it out of the way so that Kaoru can be locked into elite training. Fluff wise it can be justified in that we started turn 13 with the party, but in this case we will end turn 24 with the party (since this one is going to have more prep work, while the last one was thrown together real quickly).

The only "enemies we'd have at the party would be the poachers. As I said I will drop that invitation if everyone else is really that opposed to it.

Although I think it would be missing an opportunity to present ourselves in the right way. People are saying it would be bad for morale, but I think it could be very good for morale. Nobody likes being the villain. The girls like being the heroic friendly magical girls that only want to be friends with the "dark magical girls" and only fight them when they have no choice. It fits with what we just did with Kyouko, and it fits with how we have been playing. It also fits with the kind of world that Mami wants to build. Inviting the poachers to our party is in many ways a defiant expression of strength. "Mercy is a luxury for the strong" is an old saying you know.

I guess it could go bad if that's an expression of strength that we can't actually back up. Maybe the poacher girls will instead think it's a sign of weakness. So if others don't want to do it I can adjust to that.

I insist on having Kyouko Pack Hunt, and I very much think that a party is the way to go. Inviting the poachers is more of an optional add on to me.

 

[Elder Haman]

Song list for party.

I tried to pick songs with some meaningful lyrics. I mean, look at the lyrics for Sweet Bitter Beauty Song.

Sweet Bitter Beauty Song: (sung by Kaoru)

Spoiler

Can't find a good translation, so here is my attempt at the lyrics (not word for word, looking for meaning and rhythm instead):

Life's a very sweet and bitter beauty song
Choose: Just how do you intend to sing along

Go ahead. Fall Back. Right or Left.
Choices to be made these moments you get.
Despite the exterior you're extremely young.
With just one glance I see you're quite serious.

Life's a very sweet and bitter beauty song

Your tail wagging like a faithful dog.
Trying to please those that done you wrong.
If you don't like the melody, then raise your voice and sing a bold counterpoint.

A nervous young teenager
Your heart falls in rhythm with the passions of the beating drums

Aren't we all on the same stage,
Here to lift our courage
High notes, let's sing it
Low notes, let's sing it
We all have our own range, that we're the best at
So sing your hearts out loud

Choose: Friend or Love. Light or Deep.
A whirlpool of emotions you've been hiding from me.
Behind the foolish smile you are hurting inside.
Don't you know that it's quite serious?

Life's a very sweet and bitter beauty song

You're strutting like a prideful cat.
Whatever happens, you meant to do that.
If you can't sing the melody, then raise your voice and sing a bold counterpoint

A bright, fragile teenager
Your ears vibrate with the voodoo of my magic song

Don't we all cry to the same song?
Different though we may be.
Hot souls are burning
Cold souls are freezing
We all have our own griefs, from which we're hurting
Let your hearts cry out loud

-Instrumental Bridge-

Aren't we all on the same stage,
Here to lift our courage
High notes, let's sing it
Low notes, let's sing it
We all have our own range, that we're the best at
So sing your hearts out loud

Don't we all laugh to the same song?
Different though we may be.
Rough words or gentle,
Dignified or silly,
We all have our own lives, that we are singing
Let your hearts laugh out loud

Life's a very sweet and bitter beauty song
Life's a very sweet and bitter beauty song
Life's a very sweet and bitter beauty song
Life: Just how do you intend to sing along?

Just for fun an 80's remix of this song. (Kaoru will be singing the normal version though)

Maybe another song here

Magia (Of course. Lyrics included in song link) (sung by Kaoru)

Maybe another song here

Connect (Lyrics) (sung by Kaoru)

See You Tomorrow (Lyrics in song link) (sung by Yuma)

Luminous (Lyrics) (sung by Kaoru)

And I'm Home (Lyrics in song link) (Duet for Mami and Kyouko)

Future (Mami's theme song, lyric in link.) (sung by Mami of course)

Sharing the Same Tears (sung by Kaoru)

Spoiler

For a little while now, I haven't been feeling well...
The wind stands still at the road on the hill.
Never saying anything
I'm sad because you're troubled.
Just lean against my shoulder a little
Acting like a spoiled child doesn't help anything.

No matter... No matter...
...what gets in our way, it's OK if we're together.
In this way... in this way...
Sharing the same tears
Don't separate from me!
Let it stay like this...

Two people in an uncomfortable "Speed Photo" box are noisy
Looking at a photographed face with closed eyes
We make fun of each other and start laughing.
If just hanging in there all alone
is the answer, you'll be lonely.


No matter where.. No matter where..
we seem to be falling in love It's OK if we're together
In this way... in this way...
Facing each other with the same smile
Don't change!
Let it stay like this...

No matter... No matter...
...what gets in our way, it's OK if we're together.
No matter where... No matter where...
we seem to be falling in love. It's OK if we're together

Wondering if there is a good place to slip Moonlight Densetsu in (cause you know Kaoru wants to). Maybe Moon Revenge for a group song of some signers Kaoru recruited.

Anyone else have suggestions for songs that they think would fit?

 

[Mecrazyfang]

[X] Plan Haman.
Dunno if my attention span is getting worse, or the wall 'o text is, but it's a lot harder to keep up these days.

I'll have some flavor text for Spirals soon.

 

[Aranfan]

[x] Kinematics

Kinematics has the anniversery party without inviting enemies and has Kyoko training up new elities.

 

[landcollector]

[X] Plan Elder Haman

 

[Diomedea]

I'm pretty torn. I was against Haman's plan, but recent arguments make me fonder of using the turn to integrate Kyoko, which is rather important to Mami personally. We saw with our grief spiral this turn that there are some frictions between our girls, and I'd like to continue to prioritize our girls, which means morale. However, I think inviting our enemies to the party is a...poor idea. I think heading off anti-kyoko issues is important, so if Elder Haman removes the inviting outsiders to our anniversary party, I'll vote for his plan. We should still diplomance them, but unless they join up, no party for them (and even if they do, we should watch them).

 

[MarkAren]

[x] Kinematics

 

[inverted_helix]

Well, we don't actually have any numbers, so I'm just going off of what the update said. "It seems like by the end of the party everyone is feeling just a bit better." and "Morale surged quite a bit this month, driven upwards by the lack of injuries or death, the celebration of a year's passage, and the start of a new business venture." The first specifically said "a bit" and the second made it sound like it was of middling importance.
Would be nice to have a more accurate morale meter, but oh well.

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t seemed like in case one, we had a noticeable morale gain for ONE party action, and in case two, we 1) rolled great on hunting 2) reached a survival milestone and had a party 3) succeeded at opening a business.

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So a bit of explanation is in order here.

Your morale is affected by a lot of things. I don't have very many static values on morale bonuses because morale doesn't really work that way. While some of this quest is driven by cold mathematics, morale is very much by feel and gets adjusted for all sorts of things.

That being said, the first year celebration was one of the biggest morale bonuses you've had yet, saying everyone felt a bit better was perhaps poor word choice on my part, but I wanted it to reflect that on the total morale scale it was still small. You will note however that month is when your morale hit 5 for pretty much the only time.

Your morale has been lingering lower these past months because of a shift in expectations. When you started, every month morale had a rather significant baseline improvement because the girls were happy just being alive. Now that there's an expectation of survival you no longer get that bonus.

 

[Elder Haman]

I'm pretty torn. I was against Haman's plan, but recent arguments make me fonder of using the turn to integrate Kyoko, which is rather important to Mami personally. We saw with our grief spiral this turn that there are some frictions between our girls, and I'd like to continue to prioritize our girls, which means morale. However, I think inviting our enemies to the party is a...poor idea. I think heading off anti-kyoko issues is important, so if Elder Haman removes the inviting outsiders to our anniversary party, I'll vote for his plan. We should still diplomance them, but unless they join up, no party for them (and even if they do, we should watch them).

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Dropped inviting the poachers to our party. Since no one else seems to really like it. Unless people did like it but were keeping silent about it?

Anyway, hopefully that will make people more comfortable with my plan.

Does anyone have any comments on the fluff I wrote? I know some of it was pretty rough, so I would love some feedback on how to make it better.

Also put up a preliminary suggested song list:
http://forums.sufficientvelocity.com/posts/2347270/

Anyone else have songs that they want to suggest?

 

[Kinematics]

While I don't inherently mind the idea of Kyouko hunting with the packs to get familiar with people, there is a risk which depends on how Kyouko behaves.

Kyouko is strong enough that she can solo hunt the +10 area with the kevlar clothing. Also, remember that Kyouko has not had any of the pack hunting training that the rest have gone through. She is therefore going to hunt using her standard solo strategies, which is just going to get in the way of the pack strategies.

If she plays nice with all the other hunters, then it's a great way to get her integrated into the group. However Kyouko is naturally arrogant and standoffish. Even dealing with her best friend, it took like half a year to get her to come back. Her default behavior is handling things on her own, showing off, bragging, and pushing others out of her territory.

So, placing her with a group, even of vets, where she is still that much better than any of them, is as likely as not to greatly increase friction within the group, as they can't stand being around her.

Getting Kyouko into the group is best handled, I think, by group activities that don't trigger her lone wolf behavior. In other words, more social stuff than hunting stuff, or in hunting stuff that plays to her strengths.

So: Party? Great. Poacher hunting? Great. Giving her a position to show off how good she is (training new elites)? Great. Pack hunting? Likely to be terrible.


I agree with Haman's plans for the anniversary party. I think that will be very good in a lot of ways (though I also think we should not be inviting the poachers). However I disagree with the Kyouko hunting idea, for now at least. Maybe once she's a bit more familiar with both the group and the group tactics.

 

[Aranfan]

Holy shit we've only lost four people. In two years the only deaths I can find Helix detail in the updates are Chihoko to sprialling, Keiko to Hunting, an unknown girl Spiralling (off of Keiko's death), and Hitomi to Hunting. All four of them happened in the first year.

We have had a year of no deaths. This should be stressed in the party.

I don't think Keiko torturing kittens can explain this, Madokami has to be looking out for us.

 

[Elder Haman]

Holy shit we've only lost four people. In two years the only deaths I can find Helix detail in the updates are Chihoko to sprialling, Keiko to Hunting, and unknown girl Spiralling (off of Keiko's death), and Hitomi to Hunting. All four of them happened in the first year.

We have had a year of no deaths. This should be stressed in the party.

I don't think Keiko torturing kittens can explain this, Madokami has to be looking out for us.

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Maybe the anniversary of our founding should be declared a day of thanksgiving and feasting forevermore?

 

[Aranfan]

Maybe the anniversary of our founding should be declared a day of thanksgiving and feasting forevermore?

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I very strongly doubt that our luck on the deaths will hold, so let's not get ahead of ourselves. But we should definitely make a big deal of a year of no deaths, because holy shit is that a big deal for Magical GIrls.

 

[Kinematics]

Modifications to mine:

Invite the girls from regions 7/11/12 to the anniversary party as part of the attempt to recruit them (even if we don't succeed).


Questions:

Would having Kaoru planning the anniversary party (which presumably eats up 1 day and thus costs 1 vet, the same as a Sports Day) take up so much of her time that she couldn't do the elite training? Or, if she can still do the elite training, would it reduce her chance to pass?

Can the clairvoyants track an item? Essentially, if the poacher confrontation leads to a fight and the poachers run off, if any of them are 'tagged' with an appropriate item, can the clairvoyants track them using that, to find out where they're originally from?

Can we keep the teleporter (Shinobu) as one of the vets in the training program, and dispatch her specifically to assist in the poach hunting without requiring full dedication to that slot? She's not spending the full month on the issue, just the night when the poachers are found. If this is feasible, possibly have her grab Taura for the ride as well. IE: Notification that poachers are found; hop over and grab Taura; hop and grab Kyouko; port to destination team. Would be willing to spend a grief cube or two on this, as well.

 

[mastigos]

I think we need an omake of Mami trying to use the cookie-stalker method on magical girl groups that complete strangers.

 

[notgreat]

Why does Kaoru need to be the one planning? Give her a half cube for music and have her there, but she doesn't need to be the organizer for the party.

 

[inverted_helix]

I think we need an omake of Mami trying to use the cookie-stalker method on magical girl groups that complete strangers.

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That worked well because it really took advantage of Kyouko's traits. I mean she wasn't willing to attack Mami directly, and she will never let food go to waste.

Other people without those traits that would end in disaster.

 

[mastigos]

That worked well because it really took advantage of Kyouko's traits. I mean she wasn't willing to attack Mami directly, and she will never let food go to waste.

Other people without those traits that would end in disaster.

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That's why I said an omake. Because I imagined a hilarious disaster of epic proportions.

 

[Kinematics]

Why does Kaoru need to be the one planning? Give her a half cube for music and have her there, but she doesn't need to be the organizer for the party.

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Good point. Even the sports day has to have some sort of organization done, and we didn't have to dedicate someone to that. Might need a little more for the anniversary party, though. Might borrow a training unit for a spare half-meguca for the organization part.

More modifications:

Added simplified versions of some of Haman's additional fluff items. Also, doing so brought up the idea of a Councilor position (someone for the girls to go to to help resolve conflicts amongst them). Will probably allow Mami to give it some thought over the next month, and then implement in the month after.

Went ahead and added the bribery option for the recruitment attempts. An extra $1500, which is annoying in our current debt situation, but might as well put what we can into that as the last major expansion push for a while.

 

[inverted_helix]

I don't think Keiko torturing kittens can explain this, Madokami has to be looking out for us.

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Don't underestimate the power of the blood powered kitten mulcher!

Though honestly it's partly poor planning on my part. I balanced everything very neatly so that you'd barely scrape by at the beginning. However the really absurd rolls in the first few turns allowed you to break out of that balance point, and I didn't think ahead to higher balance levels. If I had the casualty rate from hunting would be significantly higher, and casualty rate reduction harder to come by. (Of course that would have made surviving the startup impossible, which is why it wasn't higher to begin with.) Not to mention morale would probably be a smoother scale (likely a d1000 rather than d100 type).

Would having Kaoru planning the anniversary party (which presumably eats up 1 day and thus costs 1 vet, the same as a Sports Day) take up so much of her time that she couldn't do the elite training? Or, if she can still do the elite training, would it reduce her chance to pass?

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Why does Kaoru need to be the one planning? Give her a half cube for music and have her there, but she doesn't need to be the organizer for the party.

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I'm going to say a major party on this scale is going to take 2 vets worth of investment, one to represent the party time itself, the other to represent the planning and preparation (since you don't throw such large parties without prep). Kaoru doesn't need to be the planner necessarily though. If she is she won't have time for elite training.

Can the clairvoyants track an item? Essentially, if the poacher confrontation leads to a fight and the poachers run off, if any of them are 'tagged' with an appropriate item, can the clairvoyants track them using that, to find out where they're originally from?

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Not at current, though you might research it. It would still run into the issue of Clairvoyance vs Stealth roll though. (Note that this turn you had a couple rather stupid rolls on that for Taya to penetrate the stealth of a pair of tandem casting Stealth specialists. The odds were in their favor.)

Can we keep the teleporter (Shinobu) as one of the vets in the training program, and dispatch her specifically to assist in the poach hunting without requiring full dedication to that slot? She's not spending the full month on the issue, just the night when the poachers are found. If this is feasible, possibly have her grab Taura for the ride as well. IE: Notification that poachers are found; hop over and grab Taura; hop and grab Kyouko; port to destination team. Would be willing to spend a grief cube or two on this, as well.

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Allowable, though this still won't be instant deployment. Like in To The Stars, long range teleports have a sort of charge/targeting time that short range combat teleports do not. Further compounded by teleporting others tacking on a little bit of time. And by the fact that teleporting is less useful in PvP because it is quite detectable, like firing a magical flaregun.

 

[tenchifew]

[x] Kinematics

 

[Aranfan]

Went ahead and added the bribery option for the recruitment attempts. An extra $1500, which is annoying in our current debt situation, but might as well put what we can into that as the last major expansion push for a while.

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I am uncomfortable with this, we're already spending a lot of money while in debt.