Meguca Micro Empire Quest (PMMM)

What should I do regarding a change in system?

  • Notgreat's proposed simplification of hunting, leave rest intact.

    Votes: 5 55.6%
  • Chapter system vastly simplifying everything.

    Votes: 4 44.4%

  • Total voters
    9
  • Poll closed .
Rotating tactics offers her far less benefit than you believe it to. And it's also far less guaranteed than the value of territory.
Hmm. Under ideal conditions, basic RT (the 0.66 rate that we'd be offering) should increase the effective yield of a given territory size by 10%.

Edit: These values are in error. Corrected figures in a post below.

Guesstimated size of their territory is in the 250 to 350 range, though this implies it might be lower, so perhaps down to as little as 200. 10% of that means between +20 and +35 cubes per month, on average.

However, since they have to deal with poaching, they can't actually make use of the full RT bonus. Effectively, they'd be using the RT bonus to absorb the losses of being unable to fully exploit the territory.

Suppose, for example, they can only effectively use 6 points of DS for RT, with the other 4 points being abused by poachers. In that case their gain is only 5%, giving them between +10 and +18 cubes per month, subject to the whims of the poachers.

So any amount of Tokyo territory — say a block of size 50 (1 million population) — would give them more cubes in a stable fashion (20 cubes if the native population is 50%, and there's a 10% overage to cover spirals and such) than what they could get from the RT approach. Size 100 territory block would give them more cubes than RT would give them even without the poacher interference.

And even a size 100 territory block is not that huge of a demand, given that Tokyo has a total harvest capacity of almost 1900 cubes. However it's probably larger than they could maintain, since it would require dropping their local forces by a pretty significant amount in order to staff it. It's also pretty significant at the political level, given their existing size, so I rather doubt it would go higher than that. 50 is probably a decent target; possibly less if we get an otherwise unoccupied region available for them.
 
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Guesstimated size of their territory is in the 250 to 350 range, though this implies it might be lower, so perhaps down to as little as 200. 10% of that means between +20 and +35 cubes per month, on average.
Whoops, error. This is the gain per 2-month cycle, so actually half of that (confused myself by doing it all on one spreadsheet page). +10 to +18 for full effect, +5 to +9 with poacher interference. Yeah, definitely not enough to be effective for her.
 
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So perhaps she feels her territory is threatened in Kyoto and can't handle what ever method the poachers are using. A territory far outside could certainly help as a sort of buffer in GC stock. And perhaps even a beachhead for expansion into Tokyo should she get pushed out of Kyoto. Hedging her bets.
 
Whoops, error. This is the gain per 2-month cycle, so actually half of that (confused myself by doing it all on one spreadsheet page). +10 to +18 for full effect, +5 to +9 with poacher interference. Yeah, definitely not enough to be effective for her.
I don't think the math is right on this at all. My math is giving very different results. For a .66 modifier and 250 territory with 6 demon strength wobble with rotating tactics I get +19 cubes per month. (Numbers are what you're using, not going to give away her true size that easily when half this game is about uncertainty.)

Rechecking the math behind my spreadsheet now.
 
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3: This suggested trade gives us a significant temporary benefit (loaning an artifact) in exchange for a rather significant permanent benefit (territory).
I would expect a counterargument that, while the artifact may be of only temporary use, its effect (the ability to kill off the youma) is a permanent effect of significant value.
1: We gain permanent ownership of the artifact, with warranty only until the Tokyo youma are killed. Recieve training in the charging maintenance of it. This resolves two of the issues above.
I disagree with trying to argue for this. I see no substantial concrete need for us to have one of these on a permanent basis (especially when we have to negotiate for training on top of that), and it increases the cost of what we're asking for a great deal.

2: We agree to train girls in our hunting techniques. Offering to pay the vets training in hunting in our territory (stay below 3 cubes per a vet if they agree to pair hunting each with a Serene girl, below 1.5 if they agree only to pack hunting, 3 cubes per a clairvoyant). This should provide some immediate infusion of cubes to Heaven's Chosen.
I do think it's worthwhile to offer to train her group in our hunting methodologies, but I think this is something to consider at a later time, and in exchange for her training us in some of her crafting tech.

If she's not asking for cubes right now, I think trying to bribe her with more cubes is not the best approach. Since she's aware that this will take another couple months, at least, and what she's asking for won't take effect until then (at best), she has to be comfortable enough with her current stockpile that such an offer is not of sufficient value to be worth trading for.
 
I don't think the math is right on this at all. My math is giving very different results. For a .66 modifier and 250 territory with 6 demon strength wobble with rotating tactics I get +19 cubes per month. (Numbers are what you're using, not going to give away her true size that easily when half this game is about uncertainty.)

Rechecking the math behind my spreadsheet now.
Hmmm.

OK, rechecking with full values.

Two 125 territories, for 250 total territory size, using RT on one half each month so that the total in this is per month, rather than per cycle.

Total harvest is 281 cubes with basic (0.66) RT and full +10 DS hunting. That's 12.4% (which matches what I vaguely remembered, rather than the 10% I was getting). That's +31 cubes per month.

Scaling back to a +6 DS swing, total is 268.6, for +18.6 cubes per month. +7.4% gain.


So, ignore the earlier version, as I made some sort of mistake in whatever I set up, somewhere. HC's gain from RT should be somewhat more on the reasonable side.
 
You know it's odd. I expected based off the huge Serena argument that you guys would practically consider Sachiko the devil (not only does she have mind magic, she has the nerve to use it!). And in return she was going to consider your response to mean that you must be completely untrustworthy.
The argument about Serena was not that she was evil but that she was dangerous. We never thought that she was evil. Sachiko, on the other hand, could potentially be quite evil (e.g by using small print on the contracts or by coercing people to sign "freely" or by lying about what her power is). But she hasn't yet shown any sign of such duplicity, so we can afford to give her the benefit of the doubt. It would still be wise to be extremely careful when we read any contract of hers that we intend to sign.

Personally I suspect murder rates would skyrocket if everyone had to tell the truth.
I think the opposite. People often underestimate how much damage lies can do, especially the lies we tell ourselves. Of course, it's also more virtuous to choose to tell the truth than to be forced into doing so.
 
I think the error I made was that I left teleporting in, while at the same time going with very high hunters because I didn't want to fix some other stuff, and forgot that that reduced the final total, which skewed the percentage that I then applied to HC's territory. So yeah, stupid configuration error.
 
Neither case applies to Puerto Rico since Puerto Ricans are American citizens, and also do not pay most federal taxes. Their situation follows the traditional American pattern of territories that eventually become states. Nor has there ever been any significant effort to extract resources from Puerto Rico to benefit the mainland polity.
No, Puerto Rico residents actually do pay most federal taxes. Although they don't pay federal income taxes, they pay into Social Security, Medicare (though they receive a small fraction of the Medicare benefits), payroll taxes (which are roughly the same size as income taxes; most people just don't notice them because they never show up even in gross pay), import/export duties, commodity taxes, and many more, though as a US territory Puerto Rico only gets back a fraction in return compared to actual states. Part of this stems from the fact that residents of Puerto Rico are not allowed to participate in federal elections and have no representation at the federal level other than a non-voting member of the House. These issues combined are why the Puerto Rico government is defaulting on its debts, and most of the island is in a depressing spiral of poverty.

These issues combined are why Puerto Rican citizens voted nearly 2 to 1 to become a state, back in 2012. They of course are not a state yet, because Congress has to approve too, and they're stonewalling.

Speaking of Puerto Rican citizens, yes they are US citizens, but since Puerto Rico is considered a US territorial possession, not a voting state, they are not included in the Constitution. The reasons Puerto Ricans are granted citizenship is due to a US law passed in 1917, not because citizenship is considered a right like it is in actual states. Unlike in Constitutionally-protected states, their citizenship was granted by a law, and it can be removed by a law.

I disagree with trying to argue for this. I see no substantial concrete need for us to have one of these on a permanent basis (especially when we have to negotiate for training on top of that), and it increases the cost of what we're asking for a great deal.
I don't think we need permanent possession of the artifact. What we would want is to have the artifact on loan, along with training on how to operate and maintain it, in order to limit Hiko's girls' exposure to Serena's toxic Hope aura.
 
If Hiko wanted cube income due to overpopulation, RT and IRT would have been godsends. From her own mouth a 10% increase at the cost of girl-hours is insufficient. I think I've got a good guess on her primary limitations; most of her skills gained over the years have exorbitant cost in cubes, and she's not hunting high for rations, but for power. If that's the case, it's less like a straight land bargain and more like bargaining for a iron mine with the only blacksmith on the planet.

If we can figure out the right deal, we can probably push her very far on concessions for land area, assuming that's the case.
 
I would expect a counterargument that, while the artifact may be of only temporary use, its effect (the ability to kill off the youma) is a permanent effect of significant value.

So? Let her make that argument then.

I disagree with trying to argue for this. I see no substantial concrete need for us to have one of these on a permanent basis (especially when we have to negotiate for training on top of that), and it increases the cost of what we're asking for a great deal.

First, it would be useful, so if we get it, great.

Second, it makes a good negotiation position. We can potentially make concessions on.

If she's not asking for cubes right now, I think trying to bribe her with more cubes is not the best approach. Since she's aware that this will take another couple months, at least, and what she's asking for won't take effect until then (at best), she has to be comfortable enough with her current stockpile that such an offer is not of sufficient value to be worth trading for.

I don't see where this is a valid reading of things. Rather she is focused on higher priorities for her, but since we are not offering everything she wants, then we ought to offer something else. This is something cheap for us to offer, since those cubes will probably not be harvested otherwise.

I don't think we need permanent possession of the artifact. What we would want is to have the artifact on loan, along with training on how to operate and maintain it, in order to limit Hiko's girls' exposure to Serena's toxic Hope aura.

That is the minimum I think we can accept.
 
I find it kind of silly that most of your post is talking up how incredibly valuable her power is, but then you call whatever rate she might charge a rip-off based on comparison to mundane contract fees. :p

There was a bunch of text left out of that post because I was trying to get it written as fast as possible so I could get it out in one of the 5 minute gaps where my internet was actually working yesterday.

The reason I called them rip-off rates was in comparison more to the amount of effort involved. The normal $500 fee is for a regular lawyer to go over the pages of legalize, even the empty template for an employ contract is five pages long, and ensure everything both checks out and matches up with what the client actually wants. Sachiko could, theoretically, hand write a contract in five minutes and therefore effectively be charging somewhere between 24x to 48x as much as a mundane lawyer.

This of course all depends upon what exactly her limitations are.
 
I am meowing all the story posts, and some omakes.

I also desire to submit an ad for the internal ad system. Whatever happened with that?
 
Anyway, I am thinking of writing up the negotiation plan with some modifications based on Kinematics criticisms.

Mainly holding back the actual offer to pay for girls training hunting techniques as an additional offer to make during negotiations if we need an additional sweetener, but not in the initial response. And also including a note that we can concede the permanent ownership of the artifact, but try to insist on training in how to use it.

I think that gets at the feeling of most people, and hopefully will alleviate some of Kinematic's concerns with my initial position.
 
Someone has gone mad with power now that they have a Meow rating

:p
Yeah I noticed that too :lol I suddenly had about 30 new rating alerts (I have those left on because I fully admit it gives me satisfaction to get ratings)

My computer crashed while I had the tab open, which was my reminder to go do it. Then I forgot to reopen the tab. Keep bugging me so I remember to do it this weekend.
I had idly wondered about that.

Only subscribers have access now, IIRC.
I saw that, it was kind of disappointing they made that a subscriber feature only.
 
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