- Location
- The Beach
Or, she's refusing to acknowledge it as a problem so that she doesn't have the obligation to help.
Meguca Micro Empire Quest (PMMM)
- Thread starter inverted_helix
- Start date
Back from house hunting! About to start responding...
Holy crap how much did this thread grow in one day?
@inverted_helix A question I have been meaning to ask: Are demons still cycling in through the Odawara, Hadano, Minamiashigara area that we cleared out in our first action?
Again, I point out that we can in fact use the untrained greens on Pack Hunting in +0 DS with 0% casualty chance.
Pack Hunting base risk = 10%
Dispatch = -1%
Shields = -3%
Kevlar = -6%
I think we need to better prioritize our research. We need to be focused on things to help us kill the demons. That means more effort on the Teleport Barrier, and possibly the training of multiple pairs.
I agree that we want analysis. Not sure if we can afford a whole month of no hunting. Besides the pressure to keep it up, there is also the question of morale. There is a reason they say it's important to get back on the horse after being thrown.
Well, I agree that the problem are future girls, but I don't think that there is going to be "room for them" and I think it unwise to assume that the new batch will be better.
A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
Hmmm... something I hadn't considered. With excessive manpower, we could shift back to a non clairvoyant dispatch service.
What about Pack Hunting?
Heh... odd distribution. Definitely want all those stealth girls.
We don't know what the next group will be like. Maybe it will have an elite and more vets, but it's also possible they could be former Tokyo group members who might join with old loyalties to confuse things.
Or possibly the numbers will be much higher.
I think instead we ought to be looking at being able to support actual (limited) hunting in Tokyo the following turn. That way we could support more girls. We'd want to clear out the youma in a limited area on the edge, set up our teleportation interdiction, and then hunt the heck out of that area.
Not to mention we could also talk to Osaka groups, and the Niigata groups. Even further afield. We could even send squads to the areas that have no magical girl groups at all and try to establish outposts, and start spreading the hunting tech.
I think the situation has been unpredictable, so we should avoid assuming that we will get "better" girls later.
Yes, if we can get some areas of Tokyo available for hunting, like maybe the Maebashi and Isesaki area that would allow us to absorb more girls.
In addition:
6) They will have had a month's worth of training by us, and if we have them hunt a month's worth of hunting experience.
7) We then will have a body of friends inside these other groups. So we gain a big advantage this way.
Yes. It makes sense that offers are unusual at first, but as we develop a diplomatic reputation you'd expect others to start proposing ideas.
My analysis wasn't enough?
Anyway, sounds like their living considerations are actually lower than the Republic. Either they lack money, or cubes, or both.
Current plans: finish clearing out all the youma class demons.
Near-future: Establish courier business throughout, organize the Tokyo girls into subareas that are sustainable in both hunting and money, and get DS back up to 0 (currently below -10).
Holy crap how much did this thread grow in one day?
@inverted_helix A question I have been meaning to ask: Are demons still cycling in through the Odawara, Hadano, Minamiashigara area that we cleared out in our first action?
Again, I point out that we can in fact use the untrained greens on Pack Hunting in +0 DS with 0% casualty chance.
Pack Hunting base risk = 10%
Dispatch = -1%
Shields = -3%
Kevlar = -6%
I think we need to better prioritize our research. We need to be focused on things to help us kill the demons. That means more effort on the Teleport Barrier, and possibly the training of multiple pairs.
I agree that we want analysis. Not sure if we can afford a whole month of no hunting. Besides the pressure to keep it up, there is also the question of morale. There is a reason they say it's important to get back on the horse after being thrown.
Well, I agree that the problem are future girls, but I don't think that there is going to be "room for them" and I think it unwise to assume that the new batch will be better.
A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
Hmmm... something I hadn't considered. With excessive manpower, we could shift back to a non clairvoyant dispatch service.
What about Pack Hunting?
Heh... odd distribution. Definitely want all those stealth girls.
We don't know what the next group will be like. Maybe it will have an elite and more vets, but it's also possible they could be former Tokyo group members who might join with old loyalties to confuse things.
Or possibly the numbers will be much higher.
I think instead we ought to be looking at being able to support actual (limited) hunting in Tokyo the following turn. That way we could support more girls. We'd want to clear out the youma in a limited area on the edge, set up our teleportation interdiction, and then hunt the heck out of that area.
Not to mention we could also talk to Osaka groups, and the Niigata groups. Even further afield. We could even send squads to the areas that have no magical girl groups at all and try to establish outposts, and start spreading the hunting tech.
I think the situation has been unpredictable, so we should avoid assuming that we will get "better" girls later.
Yes, if we can get some areas of Tokyo available for hunting, like maybe the Maebashi and Isesaki area that would allow us to absorb more girls.
In addition:
6) They will have had a month's worth of training by us, and if we have them hunt a month's worth of hunting experience.
7) We then will have a body of friends inside these other groups. So we gain a big advantage this way.
Yes. It makes sense that offers are unusual at first, but as we develop a diplomatic reputation you'd expect others to start proposing ideas.
Also don't forget the part with the HC, I put a lot of effort into that expecting a lot of analysis in return
There is actually something they want that you could trade, but they aren't like the corporates, they can't reveal weakness easily.
My analysis wasn't enough?
Anyway, sounds like their living considerations are actually lower than the Republic. Either they lack money, or cubes, or both.
Current plans: finish clearing out all the youma class demons.
Near-future: Establish courier business throughout, organize the Tokyo girls into subareas that are sustainable in both hunting and money, and get DS back up to 0 (currently below -10).
That's a lot of kevlar. We only have 28 full suits right now, due to Tokyo losses; between allocations to whatever team we send to Tokyo and what we need for the pack IRT up-cycle in North (we're going for the 50% IRT bonus this month, right?) I don't think we also have enough to put a bunch of greens in full kevlar in the South too.
Any hunting we do will have to be light, if we do any at all next month. Right now the youma are pack-hunting with a dispatch service/ready reaction force running; I do not want to find out what they have in store for the next stage of their escalation.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
As for something that hasn't really been touched on, perhaps we she should create some kind of system to let girls opt in or out of being serena'd (before they spiral, of course, because a spiraling girl is not exactly in full possession of their facilities). I don't know about anyone else, but I would prefer to have a choice in that situation.
If they'd really rather be dead there's not much stopping them from just leaving her AOE and dying, so I don't think it's a priority. Maybe do this if we find ourselves with a limited number of people we can be prepared to send to Serena at any given time.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
But people in the aura are also not in full possession of their facilities due to it's effect. And it's not like it would be a massive undertaking; just take a quick survey.
OK, untrained greens.
Base risk @pack: 10%
Green: 0%
Shields: -3%
Full Kevlar: -6%
Dispatch: -1%
Total: -10%
Net risk: 0%
Harvest rate:
Green: 1.00
Pack: 1.25
Dispatch: 1.30
Demon forecasting: 1.10
Seto/Teleport: 1.35
Total: 2.4
Number of greens needed to hunt the South area: 15.5 (37.2, capped at 37.0)
Also need 12 more sets of full kevlar for the elite and vets in the North, and 3.5 for the vets in the rural area.
Total kevlar needed: 31 full sets
Total kevlar on hand: 28 full sets
So we'd need to buy 3 more sets of full kevlar, and not do any Tokyo youma hunting, in order to safely use the greens for hunting this month.
We also need a teleporter, Taya and a second clairvoyant, and maybe paired stealth meguca, to scout Tokyo; even if we don't hunt there at all, we still need to collect data on the youma and oni/tengu, whatever we're calling the beholder. We need to know if/when they split up from their pairs, if possible where their dispatch service/ready response teams are based, how extensive and coordinated their communications are (right now they seem to be able to near-instantly communicate across the entire city, which is really worrisome).
By the way, I'm assuming standard RT, because I want to leave as many vets as possible for research/analysis/diplomacy stuff this month, and don't want to add any tricky stuff until we know what we want to plan on there.
IRT would be +3.5 vets for +5 cubes at a 1% casualty rate.
A lot of those options were things that we could reasonably do in future turns however, which would make them really useful to have listed.
Anyway, here's my current preliminary plan. Note that I couldn't immediately find good information on housing or research, so those parts of this plan should probably be changed.
[X] Plan notgreat
Hunting:
North: RT 0.5 Elite solo, 12 vet pair cap 68.6
South: RT 12.5 vet pair cap 67.9
Rural: 0.5 vet solo, 3 green solo (cap 8.6 to be safe, expected 8.1)
Pay 1 cube for forecasting, 2.3 cubes for teleportation (though I'm not 100% certain on this cost, that's what the spreadsheet says. Not sure where the teleportation data is for Seto's price and why there's a -4 to the GCU cost in the spreadsheet)
total: +141.3 cubes
1 Elite (0.5 any elite, 0.5 Seto)
25 Vets
3 Greens
Refugees: Fully accept 1 vet cook, 3 clairvoyant, 2 teleporter, 5 stealth/illusion.
For the rest, give them 1 cube, food, housing, and promise that we'll try to help them find them a spot in the other groups. Warn them that we may have to let them go if they can't find anywhere soon. (For reasoning/details, see after the plan) They are in charge of getting themselves adopted in another group. (As such I am not adding them to our pool of available workers)
Remaining (include fully adopted): 3 Elite, 12.5 vet, 7 Green
1 vet cook: add her to the restaurant, stack the bonuses
2 Elite, 1.5 vet- Scouting and analyzing Tokyo, make sure nothing horribly unexpected happens. Prepare for our next incursion next month. Do a little light raiding if it seems safe, but the focus is reconnaissance.
3 vet, $5,000: Get 40 capacity of apartments (Can't find recent info on the cost in megucamonths to get the apartments)
1 Mami, 2 vet, 6 green: Help the remaining refugees find other groups. Also do whatever diplomacy we deem useful. I'll leave that to others to decide.
3 vets, 3 cubes: Tandem Casting, Fusion (If I understood the update correctly, we need a bit more research on applications)
3 vets, 1 green, 3 cubes: Research, Improving Speed
Cubes: +25.3 to 139.6
+141.3 hunting, -80 full members, -30 temporary aid, -6 research
Money: We're now ~neutral in terms of cost, but hopefully good rolls from double bonus on the restaurant should help. Once we drop the $3k extra in food costs we'll be safe.
--END PLAN--
So, we've dropped our rural down to -4.8. This is actually really nice since it lets us safely harvest with solo greens. As such I'm preserving the rural DS to act as a permanent training ground of sorts. The rest I'm harvesting to the maximum with the intent of going back into Tokyo next month, where we'll need all the vets we can spare.
The stuff after the hunting/refugee plan is very up in the air right now as I don't have all the options laid out in front of me so I just chose some reasonable defaults which we can modify as necessary. (Probably replace the speed research with something more specific to what we're currently doing)
As for the refugees, I really don't want to fully take them in since we wouldn't be able to use them effectively. We'll help them out quite a bit, but make it clear that they're the ones truly in charge of selling themselves. They're free to try to sell themselves to us, but having done the math it's actually only sustainable to take in the ~11 that my plan does if we don't want to start bleeding cubes (or trading for more cubes from other people)
Be warned that next turn, this plan will only harvest ~44 cubes, though it should get a reasonable number from Tokyo as well to make up for that.
Last edited:
A first time post
Thanks for reading.Currently they aren't properly patrolling the area.
What about it.
This is part of my consideration. Also there's the fact that the groups are stabilizing their own affairs at this point.
Nope
Awww, it's so fun though!
Not sure what options you're referring to, if you have some in mind I could add them to the front page.
Seto's extra bonus is that she can act as a teleporter for the teleporter hunting bonus for up to 16 hunters (4 cubes) without incurring a cube cost.
I believe housing has been normalized to be $125 per meguca capacity for apartments, and $160 per meguca capacity for a house. First month paid up front, in addition to upkeep.
Approximately half are assumed to still live with their families. I'm not sure what impact that would have with any Tokyo refugees. You want to keep actual occupancy below about 80% of capacity.
HC ruminations.
She's running herself ragged trying to put out fires in her backyard.
However, despite all that:
For their views on the other nearby groups:
They don't speak of what they are, of how their lives are better than the others; rather, they point at the flaws of the others, and note that their lives are not that bad. Justification for their own hardships. Maybe life kinda sucks, but at least it's not as bad as the other guy.
For Hiko, who's lived over a century and a half, she probably measures short term in years, and long term in decades.
She doesn't like things that change too fast. If what you have is good enough, why change for change's sake? However, because she thinks far more long-term than most, I wonder if she feels like she's missed things entirely because of rapid shifts that passed her by entirely? She gripes about it, but is that just sour grapes, that she didn't even have the chance to appreciate something before it was gone?
I have the outlines of an idea for the type of person Hiko is, and how to approach her, but I'll need to give it more time to really solidify. Will sleep on it. Maybe the above can help trigger some extra speculation.
They're running a high DS value, which means they're probably a bit stretched for cubes, or they're dealing with poachers. Or both.
Hiko is very active in dealing with the problems that arise. She's not often in her office. For someone that has so much regard for tradition, she still used cut-down versions to save time.
She's running herself ragged trying to put out fires in her backyard.
However, despite all that:
For someone who's always pressed for time, she suddenly becomes very gregarious about certain topics, and less guarded. This implies these things are personal interests for her, to cause her to forget she's on a schedule.
For their views on the other nearby groups:
Quality of life:
They don't speak of what they are, of how their lives are better than the others; rather, they point at the flaws of the others, and note that their lives are not that bad. Justification for their own hardships. Maybe life kinda sucks, but at least it's not as bad as the other guy.
For us, short term is next month; maybe two to three months out. Long term is six months to a year. We've never even contemplated 5-year, 10-year, or 20-year plans.
For Hiko, who's lived over a century and a half, she probably measures short term in years, and long term in decades.
She doesn't like things that change too fast. If what you have is good enough, why change for change's sake? However, because she thinks far more long-term than most, I wonder if she feels like she's missed things entirely because of rapid shifts that passed her by entirely? She gripes about it, but is that just sour grapes, that she didn't even have the chance to appreciate something before it was gone?
I have the outlines of an idea for the type of person Hiko is, and how to approach her, but I'll need to give it more time to really solidify. Will sleep on it. Maybe the above can help trigger some extra speculation.
Interesting how different the views are here, and this is an important point.
Hmm, was considering if I should push cost higher, but it's annoying to complicate the upkeep tables.
yay
Powerofmind
In Madness Fallen
- Location
- United States
I disagree. I think she's running herself ragged putting out fires in the house. The feudal responsibility system is effective from the standpoint that it cuts away a lot of bureaucracy, but it also runs the issue of powerful subordinates having problems with other powerful subordinates. Hiko is probably the single most powerful magical girl in Japan, including Serena for consideration, simply because she has had so much time to delve down the magical research tree to give her the ultimate edge over other girls. I wouldn't be surprised if she can out-and-out mimic other specialties simply through spells she's figured out.
That said, the Junta shouldn't pose such a critical issue when Hiko can disseminate even a handful of these techniques to her vassals. If, however, they're too busy infighting...
All right then, switched to your housing. Thanks for the info. Also, whoops, meant to type $160, not $180.
edit: actually, do we have anywhere that states the cost to getting apartments in terms of megucamonths?
Interesting idea. It's not out of the bounds of possibility. I'll include this in my considerations.
We're sort of talking about different things though.
I was speaking in terms of what we can offer Hiko. Offering to supply her with money or cubes won't do at all; not only does Hiko almost certainly have reserve amounts of both money and cubes, but even making the offer would be greeted by scorn, because Hiko herself could never bring herself to lose face enough to ever admit to be running low in either basic necessity.
@Elder Haman is talking about Hiko's actual situation, and I find myself agreeing with his and @Kinematics's analyses. I find it very likely that Hiko is having a problem with poaching. If she did not then she would have no reason to have >0 DS levels in her territory. This implies that she is in an unsustainable position, that she is probably living off of her reserves and is running herself ragged trying to cover her territory, something she never really had to do in the age before large groups.
Hmm. I'm not sure I quite buy that. The sort of feudal infighting you're talking about only happens when the person at the top is weak and the regions are far away. Even if Hiko has taken over the entire greater Kyoto area, that's still a population of 2.6 million, a sustainable area of 130 or so, implying a meguca population in her organization of ~110-120. Given Hiko's own personal power, I can't see her being run ragged by her own subordinates, given how few of them there are and how they're all in relatively the same area.
So the way I mentally define the difference between a strong elite and a legendary is basically if you face them with no idea what they can do, could you drown them in numbers (with a typical combat mix of meguca).
If you have no idea what Serena's power is and she was going for the kill, she could handle quite large amounts of drunken meguca, and if you didn't know her power you probably would enter her radius and lose cohesion on what you're supposed to be doing at all, but you'd still have a chance with enough (and this puts her at the low end in terms of pvp). If you don't know what Hortence's power is she could blow the whole place with antimatter or produce fast acting poison gases or something. Homura you're just suddenly all dead. Kesi is essentially the same as Homura. Any of those if you don't know their powers in advance you really can't drown them in numbers.
Hiko could fight off a lot of people at once on her own. But throw enough elites at her and she'd go down eventually.
The distinction gets kind of blurry at some points.
It also means that you can seriously distort the scale in comparison to battle with good intel and planning. (I actually have relatively decent ideas on how you'd defeat most of them with planning relatively cheaply. Though the fact you'd need planning at all sets them above elites still.)
Last edited:
Powerofmind
In Madness Fallen
- Location
- United States
A measure of power like that is simple enough. Going blind with no situational advantages and swarming them with elites is a decent measure. My consideration was in Hiko's other strengths, namely if she had a chance to prepare any of her 'this can't be done in the heat of battle' tricks. On her own, I imagine she's a pretty decent elite with quite a few extra bonuses. With half an hour to prepare? I'd imagine she's got more than just teleport interdiction up her sleeve.
We may need more Kevlar anyway. I'm more pointing out that it is possible (we could even do a mix of greens pack hunting and vets pair hunting).
Actually... I'm not certain that they have a ready reaction force. The last fight sounds more like they planned a response to a known tactic, not a standing rapid reaction force.
Anyway, I was planning limited youma hunting.
It's morbid and unnecessary.
Awesome.@notgreat - @landcollector
You might want to reconsider your opposition to taking in all the refugees with this information.
I'm thinking that this turn we have Serena focus on attacking youma when they enter this area. Make them concede it as no longer part of their territory. Do some preliminary DS and territory size gauges here. Make contact with the local girls. Do a few test pack hunts with Serena on standby to see how the demons react. Continue to develop teleport interdiction tech, and use it combined with teleportation charms if demons do still try to come in. Then the following turn hunt it back up to 0 DS.
Looking at the area I'd guesstimate 30 cube area on the low side, and 60 cube area on the high side. Assuming -10 DS (and we know it's actually below that), that would give us a range from 45 (low estimate w/o basic RT) to 105 (high estimate with basic RT) additional cubes.
Plus with the low Demon strength we can use greens to hunt.
@inverted_helix How many of the 40 girls are the idealistic type that are going us because they want to fight for Tokyo and it looks like we are the ones that can win? (Compared to the number that want to run away?)
What is the cost for training pack hunting?
EDIT: Going by turn 1 numbers 10% of the population, so 4 greens?
Which makes me wonder why the General Training costs so much... or does the "General Training" cover all of our various bonuses?
Well, we have talked about some long term plans, but not to any degree of specificity.
I don't think that's likely, we haven't seen any evidence of that at all from the other girls in her organization, and no hints of anything like that.
You're basing this entirely on your speculation that Hiko can personally wipe the floor with the Junta and that the Junta is not a real threat (despite the evidence being that they do consider the Junta a real threat). I think you are over estimating Hiko's power level, and underestimating the Junta. The Junta almost certainly has multiple elites.
Additionally, infighting rarely occurs when there is an external threat like the Junta.
Last edited:
@inverted_helix Also, do we get any rumors this turn?
Are these numbers correct?
When counting up the bonuses I get:
Solo: -12%
Pair: -14%
Pack: -13%
+1% in Rural due to lack of Dispatch
Am I missing something?
What is Seto's limit on teleporting girls without a cost again?
12? 16?
I can't remember,and can't find where it's recorded.
12? 16?
I can't remember,and can't find where it's recorded.
I actually asked about that just a few posts ago. The answer is 4 cubes/16 girls.
Also, can we claim that territory? If we can without immediately getting into conflict with the other groups then yeah, we actually can afford to take them all in safely with enough room to spare in the future. I guess we can actually use the horribly inefficient green training action, too.