Meguca Micro Empire Quest (PMMM)

What should I do regarding a change in system?

  • Notgreat's proposed simplification of hunting, leave rest intact.

    Votes: 5 55.6%
  • Chapter system vastly simplifying everything.

    Votes: 4 44.4%

  • Total voters
    9
  • Poll closed .
Nagoya can already make tandem barrier charms (we got tandem casting by observing them and they came up with anchoring), and while the insulation issue might be a problem for mundanes, meguca can just keep the charms powered themselves. Why would they pay for ours?
Actually we got tandem casting from observing area 1.

We have no idea if Nagoya has developed it.

But I think it likely that they would find it easier to create their own charms, that way they can charge them just before leaving their forward base for combat.
 
Revealing magic at all is a no-no.
I propose this plan instead (we can only save up to 4 cubes by using Seto right?):
Yeah, so she can support 16 hunters I believe. Also on the subject of nomadic use, I was originally slating Seto's bonus as being able to efficiently harvest nomadic areas, but this new one just seems better in general.

(we got tandem casting by observing them
Actually you got tandem casting from observing the girls from area 1, the coalition group. Not Nagoya.

Also I would reiterate that I'm not doing a miniturn for completing the deal. So you do need a turn plan as well.

Also I'm probably going to need to go through the past few pages for the research ideas I okayed and try to price them. Mostly going to fit them into standard pattern of short/long that I already had though.
 
Doubt it, remember that they have to maintain the charge. We need to get some kind of insulation adjusted charm first.
Well, obviously I meant after we convert this to self-contained magic items.

Nagoya can already make tandem barrier charms (we got tandem casting by observing them and they came up with anchoring)
Pretty sure the tandem casters we saw came from area 1 (and those were for stealth, not barriers). There's no evidence that Nagoya has tandem casting yet.

Edit: Double ninja.
 
[X] Elder Haman's Turn plan

Hunting: 3 elite, 17 vets, Net 87.3 cubes

-1 cube for Demon Forecasting
---0.5 Seto for teleport (50-75 size territory) -0.3 cubes for teleport transport
--North (Seto Teleport, RT):
---1.5 elite solo (w/ Kevlar clothing)
---13 vet pair (w/ full kevlar)
---Expected Harvest 68.2 cubes, cap at 67.9
---DS from 0 to 10

--South (Seto Teleport):
---1 elite solo (no armor)
---1.5 vet pairs (hard leather)
---for 13.5 cubes
---DS from 9.9 to -0.1

--Rural:
---2.5 vet solo (w/ full kevlar)
---for 7.4 cubes
---DS from 0 to 1.1


Gross: 88.8 cubes
Net: 87.5 cubes

Upkeep: 1 elite, 19.5 Vet, 3 Green, 1 Associate
  • Support/Training (1 elite, 6.5 Vet)
    • 3 vet demon finding training (+20% grief cubes)
    • 1 Taya, 1 vet on dispatch service (+30% grief cubes additive with demon finding, -1% casualties)
    • 1.5 vet on telepathic communication (-2% pair hunting, -1% pack hunting)
    • 1 Veteran, Paperpushing
  • Jobs (13 Vet, 3 Green, 1 Associate)
    • 1 veteran (Hainako) Translation service
    • 7 veteran + 2 green working courier business (Minimum 3 vets)
    • 1 Akeno Delivery
    • 4 Vets (Akane), 1 Green, 1 Associate Restaurant
Morale: 2 vets, -$1500, -6 cubes

Culture Day (2 vets, $1500) Culture Day is a national holiday in Japan, so it'll be a holiday for the Serene as well. There are lots of arts and culture events occuring throughout the day for the girls to attend and just be... normal, at least for a day.
-Book a nice dinner at a family-style Italian restaurant (something like Buca Di Beppo or similar), pay for it out of communal funds.
-Pass the word of the culture day out to our smaller neighbors (3/4/10/17) via the gossipmonger. They are free to attend, or not, at their leisure.

Fun with magic: (6 cubes) It's kind of a sad statement about magical girl life that you don't really get to play with your magic, it's too costly to use it much beyond what you need to use to get grief cubes. You might be able to afford to ease up on such restrictions and let people have fun with magic for once.
Cost: +0.1 grief cube to upkeep cost per girl; Reward: Increase to morale, you actually get to play with magic a little rather than just use it to fight, possible other effects


Research: 7 vets, -5 cubes, -$500

Telepathic Defenses: Attempt to develop means of protecting the mind against telepathy.

Cost: 2 vets (including Taura), 1 month repeatable. Chance of Success: Poor

Tandem Casting, Fusion: Allows dissimilar abilities to be combined to produce more exotic results.
Cost: 3 Veteran, 3 grief cubes; Chance of Success: 5% +5% per month researched

Spell Anchoring Duration Research
It's obvious that the NM never developed the insulation theories that you have, combining this with their anchor technique should allow you to store spells for longer periods, or possibly even let mundanes like Ayase use spells. You should do some research into how well these methods combine though. Cost: 2 Vets, 2 cubes, $500

Training: 3.5 Vets


Tandem Casting: Now that you've deciphered how to combine two girls magic for greater effect they have to be taught it.

Cost: 1 Veteran per 4 girls trained in the task.
--2 clairvoyants
--6 barrier
--2 stealth (Sora and Mariko)
--2 teleporters
--2 healers

Advanced Detection: Learning how to do a proper grid pattern search and how to properly triangulate a miasma by being more quantitative in miasma assessment will make our clairvoyants more useful, and decrease the amount of time each spends on detection duty. Cost: Dispatch bonus reduced in effectiveness from 30% to 15% for two months while they develop new techniques; Reward: Territory coverage per clairvoyant on dispatch increased from 20 to 30

Diplomacy: 1 Mami, 4 vets, -$1,750

Gossipmonger/IntelOps/Propaganda (1 vet) - Keep up general communication with all neighbors we've opened formal relations with, for light upkeep and general gossip and news. (Currently Areas 1, 2, 3, 4, 10, 11, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18)
--Invite Areas 3, 4, 10, and 17 to our culture festival events

Business is Business: Target the Coalition (Areas 1, 2, 11, 18)
1 Mami, 1 vet
- Business proposal that we expand our courier business into their territory, and hire their girls as couriers.
-- We will need to assign at least 2 of our vets to the business in their area to help it get started
-- We expect that there are 6 courier positions available, and so 4 positions are available for their girls. Any excess courier positions that they choose not to fill will be filled by our girls. They must notify before the start of the month if they wish to change the number of their girls working (increase or decrease).
-- We offer to pay $1200 per a girl, with future raises as a possible negotiating point. Alternatively we could negotiate a payment in cubes.

Suggest they join the Imperium: Target Area 17 and Area 10
2 vets (Kaoru and Manami), $1,750 for welcome package
-- Point out the stipends, housing, and social events available to the Serenes.
-- Explain that if they join the Imperium, that as greens they will be put on jobs (as couriers) until they have been trained enough to become veterans. This is done for safety, so that they are properly trained and can hunt safely without risk. Make sure to point out the good safety record of the Serenes (no hunting deaths in over a year), as well as the age and magical girl seniority of the girls who are members (most of our vets have been magical girls for 3 years or more, and Mami has been a magical girl for over 5 years).
-- Have Kaoru talk about her experience joining the Serenes as a green at the very beginning, and all the changes and improvements in safety since then.
-- Have Manami (the Tokyo girl who still believes in hope) talk about the dangers she experienced, even with a smaller group, and the benefits of joining the Serenes as a recent person to join.


Money: $29,000 - $25,030 = +$3,970 net income this month

  • Translator: +$3000 per turn
  • Courier Business, Mitakihara: +$9500 per turn
  • Courier Business, Kasamino: +$4500 per turn
  • Restaurant +$9000 per turn
  • Delivery +$3000 per turn
  • $8000 upkeep on houses
  • $2500 upkeep on apartments
  • $500 upkeep on cable
  • $1220 upkeep on cellphones (-2% solo hunting, -1% pair hunting)
  • $6100 upkeep on stipend ($100/girl)
  • $6100 upkeep on food ($100 a girl)
  • $610 upkeep on gear (bikes, shields, misc)

Grief cubes: 57.7 - 11 (trade) + 87.5 (net) = 134.2 - 61 = 73.2 - 5 (research) - 6 (fun with magic) = 62.2 (before spirals)

Money: $36,240 + $29,000 - $25,030 -$1,750 -$1,500 -$500 = $36,960 + $40,000 (Trade) = $76,960


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Ugh, guys, that welcome packet is not worth $20,000. There is no way it'll contain contact information for Nagoya's vassals, unless Nagoya is terminally stupid: Nagoya will want to have control over its vassals, and handing out the means for its vassals to contact each other without Nagoya itself as a go-between would be just inviting them to plot against it.

It's also very unlikely to be complete or thorough, given that their 50-point Anchoring tech is so poorly documented; it'll probably not contain anything more useful than a color-coded map of territories, and probably even that won't be accurate! It's not like we'll be able to check the north or western reaches of Nagoya any time soon to verify the info.

No; the welcome packet is not worth $20,000. The gem information is actually not worth it right now either, but it will be extremely valuable if and when we start doing research involving soul gems.
 
@inverted_helix What is the cost for adding food delivery?

I assume 1 vet for the courier at least, some money for advertisement, maybe another vet for additional advertisement and a 2nd courier?

Ugh, guys, that welcome packet is not worth $20,000. There is no way it'll contain contact information for Nagoya's vassals, unless Nagoya is terminally stupid: Nagoya will want to have control over its vassals, and handing out the means for its vassals to contact each other without Nagoya itself as a go-between would be just inviting them to plot against it.

It's also very unlikely to be complete or thorough, given that their 50-point Anchoring tech is so poorly documented; it'll probably not contain anything more useful than a color-coded map of territories, and probably even that won't be accurate! It's not like we'll be able to check the north or western reaches of Nagoya any time soon to verify the info.

No; the welcome packet is not worth $20,000. The gem information is actually not worth it right now either, but it will be extremely valuable if and when we start doing research involving soul gems.

I disagree. I think that a color coded map would be very useful. And who says we can't go check out the various locations? We get on a train to go to the various locations, and start figuring our what they would be willing to pay for cubes/magic items. It's basically an Open Relations action, followed by a trade action.
 
Man, it's a pain to work with the votes with so many variations, and two separate votes going on simultaneously.

Here is the current vote, solely for what is being traded for. This does not include votes for the tip to area 13. I will vote for the tip regardless of the plan, and I doubt many others will object to that, so we can probably expect it to be a de facto addition.

This also ignores all fluff write-ins for how to convince people of the plan, etc. I'm trying to keep this to a level where everything being proposed is clear and uncluttered.

Vote Tally : Meguca Micro Empire Quest (PMMM) | Page 168 | Sufficient Velocity
##### NetTally 1.5.11

[4] Plan: ◈Info
[4] Plan: ◈Money
[1] Plan: ◈Minimum
[1] Plan: ◈Soul Gem+

Total No. of Voters: 10


Right now, Info and Money are tied. I would not mind moving to Soul Gem+, but it's unlikely to win. It is a nice compromise between Info and Money, though. I'm hesitant about going for full Info, though I can see it potentially being worthwhile.
 
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I disagree. I think that a color coded map would be very useful. And who says we can't go check out the various locations? We get on a train to go to the various locations, and start figuring our what they would be willing to pay for cubes/magic items. It's basically an Open Relations action, followed by a trade action.
So, what, we're going to go to each of Nagoya's vassals on our own, open relations with them and set up trade/business deals, and count on nobody saying anything to Nagoya central? Or are you suggesting that Nagoya is not going to be suspicious of us doing exactly this; we are a rather large, powerful group right on the border of its vassaled territory, after all.
 
It's also very unlikely to be complete or thorough, given that their 50-point Anchoring tech is so poorly documented;
If you could tell me what issues seem poorly described I'd be happy to fill it in a bit. I'm not sure what you're meaning though. Obviously in character there's more documentation than a couple paragraphs, but I'm not operating on that fine a scale. (Nor that good a writer.) It's a packet of notes rather than a manual, but you don't really have technology manuals prepared for your technology either.

I assume 1 vet for the courier at least, some money for advertisement, maybe another vet for additional advertisement and a 2nd courier?
Yeah I was thinking 3 meguca.

Man, it's a pain to work with the votes with so many variations, and two separate votes going on simultaneously.

Here is the current vote, solely for what is being traded for. This does not include votes for the tip to area 13. I will vote for the tip regardless of the plan, and I doubt many others will object to that, so we can probably expect it to be a de facto addition.

This also ignores all fluff write-ins for how to convince people of the plan, etc. I'm trying to keep this to a level where everything being proposed is clear and uncluttered.
If it's too much of a problem I could declare it locked up and then leave further voting to just the turn plan.
 
-1 cube for Demon Forecasting
---0.5 Seto for teleport (50-75 size territory) -0.9 cubes for teleport transport
--North (Seto Teleport, RT):
---1.5 elite solo (w/ Kevlar clothing)
---13 vet pair (w/ full kevlar)
---Expected Harvest 68.2 cubes, cap at 67.8
---DS from 0 to 10

--South (Seto Teleport):
---0.5 elite solo (no armor)
---2.5 vet pairs (hard leather)
---for 14.5 cubes, cap at 14.1 cubes
---DS from 9.9 to 0

--Rural (Seto Transport):
---0.5 elite solo
---1.5 vet solo (w/ full kevlar)
---for 7.3 cubes
---DS from 0 to 0.9


Gross: 89.2 cubes
Net: 88.3 cubes
Errors:

Can cap North area at 67.9, rather than 67.8.
Going to cap Rural at the standard 7, because we could always get a tiny bit more from there, and using that as the basis of difference is cheating.

Total gross harvest: 67.9+14.1+7 = 89

Now, there must be at least 1 cube cost, for forecasting, which means your total cannot be higher than 88.

With the total amount of Seto teleports — 19.5 — total teleportation cost is 4.875 (rounded to 4.9) cubes. The first 4 cubes of that is free, so 0.9 cubes are the effective cost.

That puts the total net cubes at 87.1 — exactly the same as in my plan. Any additional cubes comes from uncapping the rural area (0.3 to 0.4, depending on plan).
 
Right now, Info and Money are tied. I would not mind moving to Soul Gem+, but it's unlikely to win. It is a nice compromise between Info and Money, though. I'm hesitant about going for full Info, though I can see it potentially being worthwhile.
You mind adding the 1GCU tip for Area 13 to those base plans? I don't think there's anyone that objects to the tip idea, and few generally who object to the idea of throwing GCUs around to make us look stronger than we are.

If you could tell me what issues seem poorly described I'd be happy to fill it in a bit. I'm not sure what you're meaning though. Obviously in character there's more documentation than a couple paragraphs, but I'm not operating on that fine a scale. (Nor that good a writer.)
It's not that it's poorly described, it's that you literally said: "They essentially give you a packet of notes, much less professional than you expected in some ways, you half expected professionally bound book." This is research that we are paying $100,000 for; if that's the kind of professional pride they take in something that is worth the same as a top-of-the-line luxury car, or maybe a small house, how much effort did they really put into their generic welcome packets?

The issue is that we have a tie.

@TheEyes Would you be willing to switch your vote to break the tie?
If I must:
[X] Plan Money
[X] Plus 1 GCU tip to Area 13

I do want that soul gem research, but not more than I want to avoid the complications of that welcome packet. If we're going to go poking around the Nagoya area I'd rather do it openly, rather than trying to subvert Nagoya's vassals while the paranoid hyper-violent central group is watching for us.
 
It's not poorly described OOC, it's poorly documented IC:
It's not that it's poorly described, it's that you literally said: "They essentially give you a packet of notes, much less professional than you expected in some ways, you half expected professionally bound book." This is research that we are paying $100,000 for; if that's the kind of professional pride they take in something that is worth the same as a top-of-the-line luxury car, or maybe a small house, how much effort did they really put into their generic welcome packets?
Hmm how to put this. They're giving you what amount to photocopies of their own research notes. They didn't ever make it into professional books, just like your own research is not in the form of professional books. You have expected professional books because of how professional they've seemed at times and their obviously high funding. It is good quality research, but it wasn't ever intended for publishing. Your own research results are piles of stapled pages in Keiko's room that don't look much better.

The conclusion that I meant you to draw from this is that they haven't ever done a technology trade before. You don't prepare professional books if you don't ever intend anyone outside your lab to see the results. I'm not always good at implying things properly despite my love for it in this quest. Though in fairness I often just reveal it if players don't get it.

And I think that players would widely agree that this tech was worth the trade. I don't think a single person to vote against getting the tech, that's why I locked that in.
 
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Umm... we have no idea of prices, we are already doing stuff with the coalition, and we have already contacted areas 15 and 16. Additionally, the size of the locals compared to Nagoya is incredibly small. We need contact with other major players, not small fry.
I don't think you understand how the free market stuff works. The coalition has about 15 meguca, and some of those meguca will have spare cubes. Each spare cube is worth about 4,000 to Nagoya. So long as the meguca values it less than 4,000, we can make a profit buying it off them and selling it to Nagoya. If they even have only 4 spare cubes and value them at 2,000, we can make a profit of 8,000. In one turn. We don't need to contact large groups in order to make considerable profits, and we don't need to know the costs in advance.

[x] Plan money
 
I don't think you understand how the free market stuff works. The coalition has about 15 meguca, and some of those meguca will have spare cubes. Each spare cube is worth about 4,000 to Nagoya. So long as the meguca values it less than 4,000, we can make a profit buying it off them and selling it to Nagoya. If they even have only 4 spare cubes and value them at 2,000, we can make a profit of 8,000. In one turn. We don't need to contact large groups in order to make considerable profits, and we don't need to know the costs in advance.

[] Plan money
On the other hand, I can imagine meguca being rather irrationally attached to their cubes, so I'm not sure this would be that effective.
 
Can cap North area at 67.9, rather than 67.8.

No you can't.

(10/.6)/20 * 37 + 37 = 67.833333333

Going to cap Rural at the standard 7, because we could always get a tiny bit more from there, and using that as the basis of difference is cheating.

How is that cheating?!

The DS goes up, so how is that cheating?

We have a situation where none of our divisions of hunters can hunt close to 7 cubes, so hunting a bit up one turn, and a bit down next turn makes perfect sense. As long as the swing isn't too high it's not even dangerous.

Now, there must be at least 1 cube cost, for forecasting, which means your total cannot be higher than 88.

Doh... forgot about that after removing the teleport cost.

It's not poorly described OOC, it's poorly documented IC:

Not it's not poorly documented.

It's not professionally bound. That's not the same thing.
 
On the other hand, I can imagine meguca being rather irrationally attached to their cubes, so I'm not sure this would be that effective.
If they're irrationally attached to their cubes, they'll just price them higher. However, how high their willing to go will be based on a pre-teen to teenage girl's conception of money, and they are isolated from the larger Grief Cube market, which means that there's a good chance that their prices will be lower than the market norm. Even if we only end up getting 1000, it will still be worth it.
 
How is that cheating?!

The DS goes up, so how is that cheating?
It's cheating because you're implying that you can get more cubes than my plan by making a variety of adjustments, when all the actual gain is just saying, "Don't cap the rural area." You're making an out-of-scope change (relative to our normal comparisons) and using that as a hidden bonus to your point total.

No you can't.

(10/.6)/20 * 37 + 37 = 67.833333333
(67.9-37)/37 = 0.8351351351351 * 0.6 = 0.5010810810811 * 20 = 10.02162162162 >> 10.0.
 
I don't think you understand how the free market stuff works. The coalition has about 15 meguca, and some of those meguca will have spare cubes. Each spare cube is worth about 4,000 to Nagoya. So long as the meguca values it less than 4,000, we can make a profit buying it off them and selling it to Nagoya. If they even have only 4 spare cubes and value them at 2,000, we can make a profit of 8,000. In one turn. We don't need to contact large groups in order to make considerable profits, and we don't need to know the costs in advance.

[x] Plan money

I am an economist.

I understand how the free market works.

You don't get the realities of meguca mechanics, sustenance farming, or the reality of poverty.

None of those girls in the coalition area are going to sell cubes for love or money. They are poor.

POOR, as in starvation levels poor.

They are not going to sell their food when they are always in danger of starving to death.

Furthermore, arbitrage is not free, we have the meguca cost, the opportunity cost of not using our resources to do other things, we don't even have the months supply surplus yet. There is a reason why most people are not day traders, and it is not because they are stupid, or ignorant, or because they do not understand the free market. Arbitrage is difficult.

For arbitrage to be worth the effort expended we need large organizations with surpluses, and significant differences in valuations. So far Nagoya, and possibly their vassals are the only ones we have made contact with.
 
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