Meguca Micro Empire Quest (PMMM)

What should I do regarding a change in system?

  • Notgreat's proposed simplification of hunting, leave rest intact.

    Votes: 5 55.6%
  • Chapter system vastly simplifying everything.

    Votes: 4 44.4%

  • Total voters
    9
  • Poll closed .
Off the top of my head we could research, magically:

1. How to 'transfer' grief from one puella to another
2. How to numb emotions, or put someone in a protective 'emotion coma'
2.5 This could probably help protect against telepathic intrusions, actually.
3. How to replicate Kaoru's song through magitech
4. etc. etc. etc.

Those are some cool ideas...

To take a relatively benign example, exposure therapy is really easy in theory. Someone who is scared of spiders should try and walk into a spiderweb whenever they see one. They see it, they walk into it, and slowly they will get over their fear of spiders. That's sort of how you train astronauts to do well under pressure, and ditto with surgeons. You bombard them with every conceivable scenario and they slowly become these people who can do amazing things no matter what the situation because they're used to pressure, instead of us mere mortals who tend to fumble around and do somewhat worse.

If you suggest to someone who is phobic of spiders to do this a bunch of them will start will crawling up the walls to get away from your crazy-ass notion no matter how reliable it has proven to be. Depressed people probably won't (grief spirals are pretty reminiscent of depression), but they won't be ecstatic either that you've decided to number crunch something that's very personal to them and top it off by saying 'well, this would be easy to solve, a sixteen year old girl could manage it after reading things up on the internet for a few months'.

Not to mention, how would you make someone risk adverse to grief spirals? Sounds like something very risky to experiment on - risk of death risky.

It's one of the Meguca's jobs to be the dorm's "Secret Fairy Godmother" and they go around doing nice things all month. The floors someone complained about are suddenly sparkling clean, the toilet paper has been restocked on time, there are pancakes for breakfast, and the dishes have been washed. Someone who's having trouble with their homework gets a little note directing them to a helpful website, someone else having trouble in general gets a note directing them to a tutoring service. Someone with money trouble gets a little extra, and someone with trouble fitting in finds themselves surrounded by friends.

And you can send messages to that Secret Fairy Godmother. Like: 'thank you!' or 'I think Ohta is having boy troubles,' or 'the new girls r griefing, plz help', and so on, and maybe that Secret Fairy Godmother will give you tasks every now and then, and if she's helped you before you will feel well disposed to help her back.

That's a cool idea. Although that would probably fall under the morale boosting mechanic it really is a good idea.
 
Well, this is our first time trying to trade something so we'd have to figure all that out.
Maybe you'd come back to us mid turn and say:

They are willing to offer you this many "points" for what we offered, and then give a list of things they are willing to trade with a "point cost" for each of those things?

Right now though I just need to know how many meguca months you are charging for it.
I'm going to say at least one because you're looking at negotiations rather than a clean exchange.
 
I'm going to say at least one because you're looking at negotiations rather than a clean exchange.

Updated my plan based on this.

That cost an additional 2 cubes to get Kyubey's aid on Opening Relations.

However, I feel that this is a tentative plan. I'd like to shift Mami to this, as it seems the most important. But with Taya scouting Kofu I only have 0.5 a Mami available.

I'm thinking about dropping the Kofu scouting mission this turn (we might want some stealth support on it anyway...) as I think the trade with Nagoya is far more urgent. We probably only have this turn before they start figuring this out themselves, so we won't get anything otherwise.

If I drop the Kofu scouting mission, I can put a full Mami on the trade negotiations, drop teleport transport, put an additional 0.5 elite and 1.5 vets on hunting (0.5 vets from teleport transport, 0.5 from trade, and 0.5 from paying Kyubey another cube), that gives us a net gain of 1.7 cubes over my current tentative plan.

The other alternative is to drop hunting in the Nomadic territory, for an additional cost of around 2 cubes.

I think I'm going to drop scouting Kofu. We can do that next month when we have more girls available for supporting a major scouting mission (Kofu is a big place, and maybe we shouldn't send an Elite off alone to a strange city).

EDIT: Actually... better to use teleport transport instead of paying cubes to Kyubey, and keep 2 elites hunting...

Making further edits

@Kinematics Your thoughts?
 
Last edited:
Okay made the edits:

Meguca Micro Empire Quest (PMMM) | Page 158

@Kinematics, do you see any math mistakes?

I capped the harvest in south area at 44.3, so I'm throwing away 1/2 a cube, but that still is better savings than paying Kyubey for three areas...

Trying to think what other improvements could be made on the margins.

If I dropped teleport transport I could gain back... 2 cubes, which isn't worth switching 1.5 megucas away from grief management (3 cubes).

Shifting vets to the south, and the elite to the north, is not enough to shake free even 0.5 meguca...
 
I'll take Taya off of scouting again, unless someone wants to make a strong argument for keeping her there this turn.

Will assign half her time to hunting, pushing the south section to 2.0 elites + 7.0 vets, capped at 44.3 cubes (same as Haman's). I'll assign the other half of her time to dispatch, where she'll take the place of 1 vet.

That leaves me with 1.5 unassigned vets.

I don't want to negotiate a trade with the Nagoya group yet. It's too soon after events for that to be comfortable, and seems likely to be something that could trigger a morale hit. I'd like to get more info on them first (from 13, and possibly 14).

Not enough to start anything in research. (Another 0.5 vet would be needed to start the lowest tier stuff.)

Not enough for any higher tier diplomacy actions.

Could squeeze out another 0.5 using a cube to Kyuubey to assist with the meetings (the other suburban spot). That would give 2 vets free.

To do with 2 vets:

Research Effects of Enchanting on Technology (2 vets, 2 cubes, $1000, 2 months)
Safe Passage Agreement with area 13 (2 vets)

And... that's all I see immediately available. I'll toss in the research for now. Also put in a purchase for 2 more kevlar outfits for next month.

Current version here. Comments welcome.
 
Last edited:
How about floating a trial balloon about that whole franchise agreement thing for our courier business? Sort of a modified "Business is Business": we provide the front company and the bike(s), and pay the girls $1200 a month, which is more than they'll get working odd jobs; we effectively get $300 a month for free, while increasing our ties to the girls in the area.

(Edit): Hmm, although their area looks like it'll be too small to fully employ a girl. They're all greens so they probably want the pack hunting bonus as much as they can get anyway, and the three of them won't be paying for an apartment with how few of them there are so this is mostly for food money. Maybe one girl at half-time for $600/month who would then earn us $750/month? Think that would work @inverted_helix?

Maybe in Area 10; we met them two months ago (Turn 27) and they like us already; get them working for us and we could maybe get them to join up in a month or three.
 
Last edited:
Arg, I'm too busy with my own quest to really participate.

*mopes*
Yes, well, your update speed is, frankly, insanely good. Two and a half months and you're already up to Turn 28; it's taken this quest 18 months to get that far! :)

@inverted_helix is no slouch either; the math and simulation complexity here is about as intricate as Shepard Quest, and they're only on Quarter 18.
 
Last edited:
I don't want to negotiate a trade with the Nagoya group yet. It's too soon after events for that to be comfortable, and seems likely to be something that could trigger a morale hit. I'd like to get more info on them first (from 13, and possibly 14).

I strongly disagree for the following reason:

They already know about Rotating Tactics and Crop Rotation. That means they are going to start researching that, and they will figure out their own solution reducing the value of our information.

Basically we got a situation where we have a bunch of fresh fish to sell, and we have to sell it now, or else we won't be able to sell it at all.

IC justification is for the same reason, we figured out that they have a telepath and are looking to maximize our gain and their cost. So we are going to suck it up and negotiate.

Research Effects of Enchanting on Technology (2 vets, 2 cubes, $1000, 2 months)
Safe Passage Agreement with area 13 (2 vets)

And... that's all I see immediately available. I'll toss in the research for now. Also put in a purchase for 2 more kevlar outfits for next month.

Another option is the Telepathic Defenses, which I believe is two vets and zero cubes.

Actually, isn't your plan getting a little low on the cube side of things?
 
Actually, isn't your plan getting a little low on the cube side of things?
Yeah. Average cube use for spirals should be 6 per month. I'd like to not drop below 50, so keep 56 as the bottom end for pre-spiral amounts, and I'm right on the edge of that.

Actually, yeah. Drop the research, and drop both Kyuubey assists on diplomacy. That frees up 4 cubes (back up to almost 60 as a pre-spiral total), and leaves 1 vet free.

I strongly disagree for the following reason:

They already know about Rotating Tactics and Crop Rotation. That means they are going to start researching that, and they will figure out their own solution reducing the value of our information.

Basically we got a situation where we have a bunch of fresh fish to sell, and we have to sell it now, or else we won't be able to sell it at all.

IC justification is for the same reason, we figured out that they have a telepath and are looking to maximize our gain and their cost. So we are going to suck it up and negotiate.
Overall, I'm mostly convinced. Still need to think it over some more, though, and would like opinions from others as well.
 
Yes, everyone else, please feel free to chime in.

Or even vote. (I figure helix is getting towards preparing to post what with the weekend.)

If you are intimidated by the math, don't be. You can look at the summaries and the discussion to figure out what the plans are without having to follow all the math.

If you want to create your own plan, but worry about the hunting part, you can just copy one of the hunting plans that Kinematics or I have figured out and then plan the rest of the turn. Or even ask us to help you fine tune your hunting plan, we'd be happy too.

Basically we are only tinkering with the tiny details based on whether we want more elites or vets available for different tasks.

Or if you want to propose ideas for a plan without writing up a plan yourself, please feel free to do so.
 
I'm not sure how, but I think we should probably look into how other major groups (magocracy, mostly) are making money.

Were there any details on that, actually?

Overall, I'm mostly convinced. Still need to think it over some more, though, and would like opinions from others as well.

Personally, I am not sure how to model the thought process behind this decision. It feels a little dispassionate - they did just alpha strike two of ours, and Mami going and saying 'let's turn this disadvantage into an advantage' is good idea, but it also seems to miss out on some of the very human anger that would result from that sort of thing.

I dunno, I feel like there should have been a big argument over this, but someone sat down on this option and kept hammering in all the benefits until the others gave in. They don't want to do this, but they will because it's for the greater good and all that.

So, possibility 1) Mami is the one that's on board with this. Her reasoning is less 'I want stuff' but more 'what they are doing is dangerous if they don't understand what they're doing, I need to convince my girls that this is a good deal for us, but mostly I want everyone to stay safe, even if they were complete jerks, I'm not doing this for my friends, I'm really trying to do this for everyone'

possibility 2) one of the outsiders (Kyouko, Seto, Tokyo Nomads) takes a look at this, and from an outsider's perspective, tells everyone to shut up, and take our lumps, no one was lost, we need to see how open this group is to negotiation, and if they aren't, we need to be prepared to go to war

These are very different approaches, and I'm not sure which one people are looking at (or if it's something else altogether).
 
For the time being, I'll add the Mami trade negotiation option. That uses up all my meguca units, but we can still easily pull Mami out and put her in general diplomacy instead, if the trade deal doesn't fly.


Unit adjustments:

Start: 0.0 elites, 1.0 vets

Pull 1.0 elites out of hunting in the south (decrease from 2.0 to 1.0). Increase vets from 7.0 to 8.5. Cube cap is still 44.3.

R1: 1.0 elites, -0.5 vets

Of the elites hunting, 0.5 was Taya. Assign the 0.5 Taya to Dispatch (bringing her up to a full 1.0 there). That reduces Dispatch vets from 2 to 1.

R2: 0.5 elites, 0.5 vets

Take Mami out of the area 18 operation. Replace with vet.

R3: 1.0 elites, 0.0 vets

Assign Mami to trade negotiations.

R4: 0.0 elites, 0.0 vets

I'm at 100% meguca usage.
 
I haven't really had time to look at the plans, what does each plan have for morale boosters?
Morale for both:
  • Sports Day (2 vets)
  • Grief Use Tracking/Management (1.5 vets)
    Cost: 1 Veteran per 40 Meguca; Reward: Meguca upkeep GCU cost reduced 5%

Also, Haman uses:
  • Spend $3000 to stock both houses with basic food that is available for anyone to eat.
Where I change around the basic stipend to become $100 stipend + $100 food, instead of just $200 stipend. Haman's can improve morale, but drops us to $1000/month net income. Mine keeps $4000/month net income, and is neutral on morale. (Upkeep increased by about $1400/month this month, too.)

Also, quick links to the plans: Mine. Haman.
 
Last edited:
So, possibility 1) Mami is the one that's on board with this. Her reasoning is less 'I want stuff' but more 'what they are doing is dangerous if they don't understand what they're doing, I need to convince my girls that this is a good deal for us, but mostly I want everyone to stay safe, even if they were complete jerks, I'm not doing this for my friends, I'm really trying to do this for everyone'

possibility 2) one of the outsiders (Kyouko, Seto, Tokyo Nomads) takes a look at this, and from an outsider's perspective, tells everyone to shut up, and take our lumps, no one was lost, we need to see how open this group is to negotiation, and if they aren't, we need to be prepared to go to war

These are very different approaches, and I'm not sure which one people are looking at (or if it's something else altogether).
Why would it necessarily be one or the other? I imagine the conversation went like this:
  1. Another meeting, complete with easels (long-time members chuckle and have to explain the joke to the newer members). Meeting starts off, emphasizes that diplomacy will be the main "theme" for the month, along with anti-meguca "PvP" tactics training.
  2. Mami opens with her argument to talk with the Mageocracy, that we want to keep everyone safe, and spreading this knowledge around is good for everyone.
  3. Someone, maybe one of Sora+Mariko's friends, maybe a quant team member, points out that this group apparently is so massively risk-averse that they attacked us for even having a region of DS+9.9, which is not even enough to spawn Class 3s according to Kyubey, and so they're unlikely to immediately jump to using RT at dangerous levels. Heck, they probably won't seriously look into RT or rotation farming quickly, or maybe even at all.
  4. @FixerUpper's number 2: someone comes up with the more mercenary argument that, right now, this is something of value that we have that the Mageocracy will want, but isn't going to be terribly eager to research themselves (see: super risk-averse due to a very bad Class-3 outbreak). They will eventually get around to it, however, with or without us. This is an opportunity to earn a profit from the larger group, while we still can.
  5. Mami agrees with the argument, and further suggests that, even apart from the potential for profit, we want to open negotiations simply to have an open line of communications, so we don't have a fog of uncertainty between our groups.
  6. A more suspicious sort, maybe Kyouko, concurs, and further suggests that we want to know if the Mageocracy even can negotiate with outsiders in this fashion, or if they are just top-down conquest types. Seto's group gets a little embarrassed, since they had long assumed that the Serene were like that, mostly due to the rumors that had spread from the Iwata incident.
  7. Sayaka jokes that Kyouko-obaasan would know all about being a top-down conquest type, with all her vast experience from helping start the Empire of Japan; Kyouko playfully threatens to turn Sayaka into a scarecrow via liberal application of spears; someone else makes a joke about spears and tells the two of them to get a room already and everyone laughs before Mami turns the meeting to other things.
  8. Yuma privately asks Kyouko what the "spears" joke meant; Kyouko turns as red as her outfit.
...huh, somehow that turned into an omake outline in my head. Free to a good home/writer, as I haven't got all of the new characters quite figured out yet.

For the record, I'm leaning towards @Elder Haman on the morale side. We haven't done an expansion into Fujinomiya with the courier business, so there's extra territory for economic expansion there, although:
The efforts to expand into Fujinomiya fail pretty terribly though. The possible customer base in the area is pretty tightly locked down by existing services and didn't seem terribly interested in a new company.
Does this mean we can never expand into Fujinomiya, that we get a penalty if we try again, or that we can maybe try again in Turn 30?
 
Last edited:
Yes, well, your update speed is, frankly, insanely good. Two and a half months and you're already up to Turn 28; it's taken this quest 18 months to get that far! :)

@inverted_helix is no slouch either; the math and simulation complexity here is about as intricate as Shepard Quest, and they're only on Quarter 18.
I realized a couple months into writing this quest actually that everyone writes at their own speed and I'd go crazy trying to compare myself to others. Some people even on these sites can write 10k words in a day, I'd struggle to do that in a month. To stay sane I have to accept whatever pace I can manage.

Or even vote. (I figure helix is getting towards preparing to post what with the weekend.)
I'll probably start trying to write out the bits that are fairly firm tonight or tomorrow. But I'm aiming for once a week really (so Monday update hopefully). Partly that's because voting cycles in such a complex system themselves take a while.

I'm not sure how, but I think we should probably look into how other major groups (magocracy, mostly) are making money.

Were there any details on that, actually?
Nope, I might put some rumors in towards that next turn, or maybe in the diplomacy section depending on rolls.

I actually found that the rumors this turn came out a lot better than I expected. People did a good job about picking them apart. It was a lot more interesting than I expected. I really like how much thought this quest can provoke.

Does this mean we can never expand into Fujinomiya, that we get a penalty if we try again, or that we can maybe try again in Turn 30?
Roll penalty. It was a crit failure.
 
I'm not sure how, but I think we should probably look into how other major groups (magocracy, mostly) are making money.

Were there any details on that, actually?
We have no info about them on that matter. We know absolutely nothing about their economics, and very little about their governmental structure.

Personally, I am not sure how to model the thought process behind this decision. It feels a little dispassionate - they did just alpha strike two of ours, and Mami going and saying 'let's turn this disadvantage into an advantage' is good idea, but it also seems to miss out on some of the very human anger that would result from that sort of thing.
This is the main aspect holding me back on this idea. Strategically, it seems sound. Emotionally, it feels robotic; not something Mami would do, and not something most would support in the immediate wake of events.

possibility 2) one of the outsiders (Kyouko, Seto, Tokyo Nomads) takes a look at this, and from an outsider's perspective, tells everyone to shut up, and take our lumps, no one was lost, we need to see how open this group is to negotiation, and if they aren't, we need to be prepared to go to war
Unfortunately, I can't see any of the main outsider leaders taking that attitude.

Kyouko is extremely territorial, and got shot up good during the encounter. "Taking her lumps" is not her style; she'd want revenge, but could be mollified that it was a 'mistake', and not push things.

Seto is cautious. She actually lost some of her girls to the class 3, and is more likely to play defensive in this matter, given the risk of almost losing more girls to another group (one of the top-end of magical girl fears). She can appreciate that the other group is taking a zero-tolerance on the risk of class 3's, but I very much doubt she'd want to jump in bed with them.

The Tokyo girls are from the hotbed of non-cooperation (which is itself the victim of a Tragedy of the Commons). In the Tokyo environment, it's mostly Every Man For Himself, because of the enormous risks involved in any cooperative endeavor. Even if they all know they need to cooperate to survive, there's still no complete trust.

While @TheEyes has a writeup that's vaguely acceptable, it still seems to have a somewhat weak foundation.

...I'm not quite sure what to vote for...
Unless there's something else you want to bring up as a consideration, the current proposals are basically diverging on two items:

1) Whether to use money directly for the food issue, or to make a mechanical change to how the stipend was applied. You either end up with a slight (possible) improvement in morale (based on +$50/month per girl), or you maintain a higher monthly income ($4000 instead of $1000).

2) Where you stand on the possibility of Mami negotiating a trade deal with the Nagoya group. The option is in both plans, but there's still a bit of tentativeness to it.

Oh, and mine buys a couple more kelvar sets in prep for next month's hunting, but that's not critical.


@Elder Haman - Error in your unit totals. You have 1.5 vets in grief management, but your total for Morale is 3, rather than 3.5. Your total vet allocation is thus 52.5 instead of 52.
 
[x] Kinematics

Mostly because I prefer the retcon to the stipend, since we can always raise it up again later once we have a more solid income. But also because I am also a bit uneasy about the in-characterness of doing the trade deal with Nagoya.

Edit: You should also buy some leather armor, those are useful on the downswing, and I don't think we have any yet.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top