[DISCONTINUED] In the Beginning, There Was Man (WH40k x SC)

Ultimately, I believe that being able to incorporate any useful technology created by xenos would be worth the slight decrease in general technology research speed. In addition, since we are going to go back to the 40k verse, we should make sure that our technologies are at least somewhat resistant to Chaos. The Cornerstone Compromise means that our technologies will be Chaos-resistant from the start, and we won't have to make them more resistant before we head back to the 40k verse.
 
Ultimately, I believe that being able to incorporate any useful technology created by xenos would be worth the slight decrease in general technology research speed. In addition, since we are going to go back to the 40k verse, we should make sure that our technologies are at least somewhat resistant to Chaos. The Cornerstone Compromise means that our technologies will be Chaos-resistant from the start, and we won't have to make them more resistant before we head back to the 40k verse.
The large loss on quantity would hurt us in both galaxies, though.
 
However, it seems to me that it would take a longer amount of time to make a large quantity of things Chaos-proof, than it would to simply make a large number of things.
But with bigger quantity of things like weapons, vehicles and high technology, we should be able to deal with possible opponents with less losses, as well as bit faster while we are on this galaxy, meaning we should/may get more time to do such research.
 
But with bigger quantity of things like weapons, vehicles and high technology, we should be able to deal with possible opponents with less losses, as well as bit faster while we are on this galaxy, meaning we should/may get more time to do such research.
However, the Cornerstone Compromise will equalize the research speeds of both general technology and reverse-engineering, allowing us to get more knowledge from xeno-tech than the Ancient's Compromise would allow us.
 
However, the Cornerstone Compromise will equalize the research speeds of both general technology and reverse-engineering, allowing us to get more knowledge from xeno-tech than the Ancient's Compromise would allow us.
Yet, we won't really need xeno-tech that much as we go through both eldar/30k humanity tech trees at faster space.

The Ancient-tech tree doesn't give maluses to reverse-engineering anything the terrans make either, although I doubt they can give us much admittedly. Some things do come to mind, though - their power-armor that even basic humans can use, as well as their apparently safer to use drop pods.
 
[x] Path of Ancients

Here's why.

I know people feel that we're locking other tech bases but does it really? Their technologies follows the same laws of physics just applied differently. If the the laws of physics was different then our from our home reality then our technology base should have faced catastrophic failures the moment we entered this universe.

Since our technology is still working, then we can conclude that the laws of physics are identical if not the same as our previous universe. Then there's nothing preventing us from making our own observation, our own research, using our own tools and using the data that we've gathered to unlock those technologies in our own techbase.

Hence, we can make our own imperial analogues of Xeno technology without having to go the long arduous process of trying to reverse engineering, not to mention the compatibility issues that might crop up in the process.

I know people calling research on Xeno tech as heresy if we choose the path of the ancients. Does it matter? No one's going to reverse engineer their technology but we can certainly figure out a way to counter or unlock in own on tech-base.

Here's an example for Halo. For instance halo Slipspace drives use micro black holes to tear the fabric of reality and push the ship into slip space. Does it prevent us from studying how black holes and micro black holes and how we could apply the same process to gain the same result is heresy now?:confused:

Wouldn't that mean that the very laws physics itself is heresy at its core? because Xenos are also using the same physical laws. They just happen to apply it differently to enable their technologies to function:jackiechan:

Biological process? HERESY!
Electrons? They exist on Xeno tech; must be heresy!
Protons? They exist on Xeno tech; must be heresy!
Micro Black holes? They're used on Xeno tech; must be heresy!
Ergo everyone is a heretic and should be burn to the ground!:V

As long as it operates under the laws reality then can make our own analogues...no need to copy non imperial xeno shit.

One of the end game tech is machine spirit singularity STC that possess the ability to not just store information but also to produce new designs to meet changing circumstances. It makes XCOM tactics useless if we can make roll out new technologies faster, not to mention they're harder to reverse engineer.
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I feel that Path of Sovereigns is just taking best pieces of technology and making it our own. That's nice and awesome but it doesn't feel as great as making your homebrew technology that functions the same, works the same and just as good as what you're trying to copy. It feels like we're just hunting for advance Xeno STCs tech similar to how the Mechanicus hunted for STCs back in our homeworld.

Isn't the point of the new quest of knowledge is to innovate, can you copying xeno tech and integrating it to your tech base but claim it as innovation is the highest form of tech heresy! You didn't innovate, you didn't create, you didn't discover, you've merely replicated the fruits of Xeno research and development and labeled it innovation. There's also no reason for Xeno tech to become magically more hardened at corruption than standard imperium tech. And tech obfuscation is a hell lot harder than slapping a waithbone on top of it.

When you see a Xeno technology that far outstrips human technology, you shouldn't fawn of how advance it is, you should be disgusted of the fact the Humans have been out done by Xenos! Instead it shouldinspire you to want to exceed what Xeno's have achieved using human technology and why our techbase isn't in inferior to Xeno tech. (R&D intensifies)

Humanity must master its own destiny, and fuck non-imperial tech because we can do better with given enough time, effort and motivation and we also no cutting corner just to gain access to some fancy xeno trinkets.

But seriously the truth is this is cutting corners to gain access to advance xeno tech can mean sacrificing knowledge and productivity. It would also screw us over if there's someone familiar with XCOM tactics (Most likely Umojians)
 
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[x] Path of Ancients

Here's why.

I know people feel that we're locking other tech bases but does it really? Their technologies follows the same laws of physics, psionics and warp in the universe. Since our technology is still working, then laws of physics are identical if not the same as our previous universe. There's nothing preventing us from making our own observation, our own research, using our own tools and using the data that we've gathered to unlock those technologies in own techbase.

Hence, we can make our own imperial analogues of Xeno technology without having to go the long arduous process of trying to reverse engineering, not to mention the compatibility issues that might crop up in the process.

I know people calling research on Xeno tech as heresy if we choose the path of the ancients. Does it matter? No one's going to reverse engineer their technology but we can certainly figure out a way to counter or unlock in own on tech-base.

Here's an example for Halo. For instance halo Slipspace drives use micro black holes to tear the fabric of reality and push the ship into slip space. Does it prevent us from studying how black holes and micro black holes and how we could apply the same process to gain the same result is heresy now?:confused:


Wouldn't that mean that the very laws physics itself is heresy at its core? because Xenos are also using the same physical laws. They just happen to apply it differently to enable their technologies to function:jackiechan:

Biological process? HERESY!
Electrons? They exist on Xeno tech; must be heresy!
Protons? They exist on Xeno tech; must be heresy!
Micro Black holes? They're used on Xeno tech; must be heresy!
Ergo everyone is a heretic and should be burn to the ground!:V

As long as it operates under the laws reality then can make our own analogues...no need to copy non imperial xeno shit.

One of the end game tech is machine spirit singularity STC that possess the ability to not just store information but also to produce new designs to meet changing circumstances. It makes XCOM tactics useless if we can make roll out new technologies faster, not to mention they're harder to reverse engineer.
---------

I feel that Path of Sovereigns is just taking best pieces of technology and making it our own. That's nice and awesome but it doesn't feel as great as making your homebrew technology that functions the same, works the same and just as good as what you're trying to copy. It feels like we're just hunting for advance Xeno STCs tech similar to how the Mechanicus hunted for STCs back in our homeworld.

Isn't the point of the new quest of knowledge is to innovate, can you copying xeno tech and integrating it to your tech base but claim it as innovation is the highest form of tech heresy! You didn't innovate, you didn't create, you didn't discover, you've merely replicated the fruits of Xeno research and development and labeled it innovation. There's also no reason for Xeno tech to become magically more hardened at corruption than standard imperium tech. And tech obfuscation is a hell lot harder than slapping a waithbone on top of it.

When you see a Xeno technology that far outstrips human technology, you shouldn't fawn of how advance it is, you should be disgusted of the fact the Humans have been out done by Xenos! Instead it shouldinspire you to want to exceed what Xeno's have achieved using human technology and why our techbase isn't in inferior to Xeno tech. (R&D intensifies)

Humanity must master its own destiny, and fuck non-imperial tech because we can do better with given enough time, effort and motivation and we also no cutting corner just to gain access to some fancy xeno trinkets.

But seriously the truth is this is cutting corners to gain access to advance xeno tech can mean sacrificing knowledge and productivity. It would also screw us over if there's someone familiar with XCOM tactics (Most likely Umojians)
Bravo! This is both the most IC and thought-out argument since the debate started!
 
[x] Path of Ancients

Here's why.

I know people feel that we're locking other tech bases but does it really? Their technologies follows the same laws of physics just applied differently. If the the laws of physics was different then our from our home reality then our technology base should have faced catastrophic failures the moment we entered this universe.

Since our technology is still working, then we can conclude that the laws of physics are identical if not the same as our previous universe. Then there's nothing preventing us from making our own observation, our own research, using our own tools and using the data that we've gathered to unlock those technologies in our own techbase.

Hence, we can make our own imperial analogues of Xeno technology without having to go the long arduous process of trying to reverse engineering, not to mention the compatibility issues that might crop up in the process.

I know people calling research on Xeno tech as heresy if we choose the path of the ancients. Does it matter? No one's going to reverse engineer their technology but we can certainly figure out a way to counter or unlock in own on tech-base.

Here's an example for Halo. For instance halo Slipspace drives use micro black holes to tear the fabric of reality and push the ship into slip space. Does it prevent us from studying how black holes and micro black holes and how we could apply the same process to gain the same result is heresy now?:confused:

Wouldn't that mean that the very laws physics itself is heresy at its core? because Xenos are also using the same physical laws. They just happen to apply it differently to enable their technologies to function:jackiechan:

Biological process? HERESY!
Electrons? They exist on Xeno tech; must be heresy!
Protons? They exist on Xeno tech; must be heresy!
Micro Black holes? They're used on Xeno tech; must be heresy!
Ergo everyone is a heretic and should be burn to the ground!:V

As long as it operates under the laws reality then can make our own analogues...no need to copy non imperial xeno shit.

One of the end game tech is machine spirit singularity STC that possess the ability to not just store information but also to produce new designs to meet changing circumstances. It makes XCOM tactics useless if we can make roll out new technologies faster, not to mention they're harder to reverse engineer.
---------

I feel that Path of Sovereigns is just taking best pieces of technology and making it our own. That's nice and awesome but it doesn't feel as great as making your homebrew technology that functions the same, works the same and just as good as what you're trying to copy. It feels like we're just hunting for advance Xeno STCs tech similar to how the Mechanicus hunted for STCs back in our homeworld.

Isn't the point of the new quest of knowledge is to innovate, can you copying xeno tech and integrating it to your tech base but claim it as innovation is the highest form of tech heresy! You didn't innovate, you didn't create, you didn't discover, you've merely replicated the fruits of Xeno research and development and labeled it innovation. There's also no reason for Xeno tech to become magically more hardened at corruption than standard imperium tech. And tech obfuscation is a hell lot harder than slapping a waithbone on top of it.

When you see a Xeno technology that far outstrips human technology, you shouldn't fawn of how advance it is, you should be disgusted of the fact the Humans have been out done by Xenos! Instead it shouldinspire you to want to exceed what Xeno's have achieved using human technology and why our techbase isn't in inferior to Xeno tech. (R&D intensifies)

Humanity must master its own destiny, and fuck non-imperial tech because we can do better with given enough time, effort and motivation and we also no cutting corner just to gain access to some fancy xeno trinkets.

But seriously the truth is this is cutting corners to gain access to advance xeno tech can mean sacrificing knowledge and productivity. It would also screw us over if there's someone familiar with XCOM tactics (Most likely Umojians)
Word of god it locks out other tech.


All we need to do is create comprimise that has us focusing on human/eldar/krork tech with possible study into more advance technology that our tech doesn't cover to create our own version. Like slipspace. Something like that would be perfect to use when we head back to the 40k verse.
 
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[x] Path of ancients.
-[x] With the caveat that study of non ancient tech that does something ours doesn't can be studied to understand and create a homegrown version of it.


I only haven't added advancing past what the ancients achieved because I figured that didn't need to be said.
 
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Word of god it locks out other tech.

How does it lock out other tech? >_> Don't you mean reverse engineering Xeno tech? because we're not reverse engineering anything we're working from the ground up; not cutting corners.

If you mean by stealing their tech or studying it then yeah its lock out.

Since we're using the same laws of physics -> Phenomenons can be observed, recorded, studies and the applied. We're locked out from reverse engineering Xeno technology, it does not however prevent us making our own imperial analogues through our own efforts and research.

STC end game would make tech development and deployment really really fast.

Word of god it locks out other tech.


All we need to do is create comprimise that has us focusing on human/eldar/krork tech with possible study into more advance technology that our tech doesn't cover to create our own version. Like slipspace. Something like that would be perfect to use when we head back to the 40k verse.

Halo made their own slipspace drive it's slow as hell but it's better than nothing and we can skirt the no reverse engineering clause since it's human made:D
 
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How does it lock out other tech? >_> Don't you mean reverse engineering Xeno tech? because we're not reverse engineering anything we're working from the ground up; not cutting corners.

If you mean by stealing their tech or studying it then yeah its lock out.

Since we're using the same laws of physics -> Phenomenons can be observed, recorded, studies and the applied. We're locked out from reverse engineering Xeno technology, it does not however prevent us making our own imperial analogues through our own efforts and research.

STC end game would make tech development and deployment really really fast.
What on earth do you think reverse engneering is? It's the study and recreation in the form of your own version of something else. So instead of studying an technology we don't have and developing our own versions faster we would have to work from the ground up. Which could be fatal depending on the situation.
 
How does it lock out other tech? >_> Don't you mean reverse engineering Xeno tech? because we're not reverse engineering anything we're working from the ground up; not cutting corners.

If you mean by stealing their tech or studying it then yeah its lock out.

Since we're using the same laws of physics -> Phenomenons can be observed, recorded, studies and the applied. We're locked out from reverse engineering Xeno technology, it does not however prevent us making our own imperial analogues through our own efforts and research.

STC end game would make tech development and deployment really really fast.
Let's ask the GM for clarification on this.

@torrmercury, if we choose the Ancient's Compromise, will we be able to make Imperial analogues of xenotech by studying and recreating them? Or would that be under reverse engineering?
 
Let's ask the GM for clarification on this.

@torrmercury, if we choose the Ancient's Compromise, will we be able to make Imperial analogues of xenotech by studying and recreating them? Or would that be under reverse engineering?

Just to be clear we're no studying or reverse engineering Xeno tech, what we're trying is to follow the path of the Ancients; Mastering and understanding the all physical laws of the universe and leave no stone unturned.

As long as it's bound by the the laws of physics, which is not exclusive to any of the races, it's likely we will be replicate it with time and effort (start from scratch basically).

Halo precursor space magic and other really exotic things are beyond us even if we take the xcom path. Not that we lack technology involving space magic we've got the Kork and Eldar tech tree for that job.
 
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Let's ask the GM for clarification on this.

@torrmercury, if we choose the Ancient's Compromise, will we be able to make Imperial analogues of xenotech by studying and recreating them? Or would that be under reverse engineering?

Just to be clear we're no studying or reverse engineering Xeno tech, what we're trying is to follow the path of the Ancients; Mastering and understanding the all physical laws of the universe and leave no stone unturned.

As long as it's bound by the the laws of physics, which is not exclusive to any of the races, it's likely we will be replicate it with time and effort (start from scratch basically).

Halo precursor space magic and other really exotic things are beyond us even if we take the xcom path. Not that we lack technology involving space magic we've got the Kork and Eldar tech tree for that job.
What mist said. Reverse engineering is taking an existing technology and figuring out how it works. Building from scratch is looking at some thing, going oh it does X and then figuring out how to do X by way of science. The latter takes longer but allows for natural obfuscating along the way due to human engineering quirks and STC system quirks.
 
Protoss do not fling anti-matter around willynilly. They use plasma. PLASMA I TELL YOU!

That being said they do have anti-matter tech, just locked away. But it's not like you can't get that yourself using Ancients.
:p

You also changed their tech tree from "incredibly advanced in everything" to "advanced but focused on warp-tech".
I know. Only canon upgrades will be shown. The rest are not a thing.
I suppose we'll have to wait until the events of Heart of the Swarm if we want to steal them both from the Dominion (brutal difficulty means you get to face both upgrades on units).:V
Incorrect. Blizzard always uses A Canon. Meaning that the first choice presented is always the canon choice. Hence the left hand column is the canon techs.

http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/Lab_01_(Hyperion)
Actually the A Canon thing applies to the mission choices in game (i.e. Choosing Tosh and helping Hanson are the canon choices), not the lab upgrades.
No, just Raynor's Raiders but that could be a thing. :p
I feel obliged to note that Raynor's Raiders and the Dominion happily steal tech from each other (the Hellion's tires were developed by the Raiders for example).
Which means that Protoss are truly this galaxy's Eldar when it come to being killy.
Pretty much, with a focus on making their dudes one man armies to prevent losses in contrast to the Eldar's tactic of going really fast and being sneaky.
 
I'd kind of like an Eldar path type setup.

Path of the Enginseer
Path of the Chymist

Higher paths require lower paths just like for the Eldar, access to certain information is determined by how far you are along the paths. No learning things your not ready for until you have the requisite knowledge.

Path of the warp would be a higher level path. Paths would have ratings too. Basic, Advanced, and Expert, just like the warhammer40k rpg rankings for skills.
 
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:p

You also changed their tech tree from "incredibly advanced in everything" to "advanced but focused on warp-tech".

I suppose we'll have to wait until the events of Heart of the Swarm if we want to steal them both from the Dominion (brutal difficulty means you get to face both upgrades on units).:V

Actually the A Canon thing applies to the mission choices in game (i.e. Choosing Tosh and helping Hanson are the canon choices), not the lab upgrades.

I feel obliged to note that Raynor's Raiders and the Dominion happily steal tech from each other (the Hellion's tires were developed by the Raiders for example).

Pretty much, with a focus on making their dudes one man armies to prevent losses in contrast to the Eldar's tactic of going really fast and being sneaky.
SSSSSSSSSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH. NO ONE NEEDS TO KNOW THAT. :p

...

I'm making it apply to everything. :V

They do but it takes time to do so.

Yes. Protoss have quite a low population.
 
Stop: Infraction
I'm literally argeuing over an example of naming, and he's bitching about it being tacky, tell him to stop whining.
No I didn't turn hostile, I said they were examples and you bitched and cried about them being tacky and ego tripped.

As exciting as this bitch trip is, I'm done, have better things to do.
infraction Yes, I'd agree. You're done here. Flame-baiting and thread disruption; enjoy your threadban.
 
Ooooooooook anyways. Getting back on topic, I'd like to close votes over the next day or 2. More discussion and votes would be nice, but you guys can take your time. I have the other bit to write for the event. :)
 
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