So I was looking at our forces page and noticed we did not seem to have any Sacricstans or Sacristan Crawlers(the mechanicus dudes who maintain knights and their vehicles), did they die in the crash?
Actually, this makes me wonder about our Knight pilots and how have they been doing all these years. Have they been relieved to be able to relax for a while, annoyed at the lack of combat for them to be had, alienated by being away from their knightworlds so long, or all/none of the above?
 
So I was looking at our forces page and noticed we did not seem to have any Sacricstans or Sacristan Crawlers(the mechanicus dudes who maintain knights and their vehicles), did they die in the crash?
Actually, this makes me wonder about our Knight pilots and how have they been doing all these years. Have they been relieved to be able to relax for a while, annoyed at the lack of combat for them to be had, alienated by being away from their knightworlds so long, or all/none of the above?
So two options, firstly, that it's something covered by the general rule I have that anything not specified but logical for you to have is indeed something you have.

In this case though I'd say that it's generally covered by the admech mission. This isn't an independent deployment of Knights, it's an attached mission so their maintenance and similar will be managed by the mechanicus.

As for what the Knights have been up to, again there's a few options. One might be suspended animation, one might be that they've just been chilling in the Admech areas so you've not seen them. They're nobles, but they're not kings of knight worlds or anything, it's only 3 knights so a fairly small deployment so perhaps they've been out hunting and stuff. Their knights specifically have been stuck in the bottom of the ship but you've just dug them out so now they'd be happier.
 
The Chaplain's Patience
The Chaplain's Patience

As he had done every week for several months, Natohk the Master of Sanctity brought a small golden aquila to the Separation Chambers holding the survivors of the 3rd Company, and placed it on a small servitor so that he did not have to enter himself. The battle-brothers of the 3rd knew the procedure from repeated experience now: When the aquila was presented, each in turn would place a hand on it and pray to the Emperor. Natohk believed that the most pure and devout would cause the aquila to glow this way, while severe taint would either tarnish the symbol or burn the traitor's hand.

As he had done every week for several months, Natohk watched and listened intently to a repetitive litany of prayers, and nothing out of the ordinary happened. There would be no releases or executions this week either, then. None clearly tainted, none particularly pure - but then, how rare was it for anyone to be entirely pure in the sight of the Emperor? He himself had a deficient Betcher's gland, he knew. When the servitor returned with the aquila, Natohk scrutinized it carefully, hoping perhaps to see a drop of blood, a spot of tarnish, a faint gleam, but there was only a sheen of sweat to be seen.

He purified the aquila with a brief burst from a hand flamer nonetheless. Chaos was subtle, and its taint could hide for a long time. Amra had urged him to release the Battle-Brothers from Separatio Anomalia soon, citing the lack of warp-sign and the already reduced numbers of their chapter, but Natohk had refused: releasing Astartes who might turn traitor would be a disaster, whereas if they were untainted, holding them another year for surety's sake would be a petty concern against another century of loyal service.

Still, Amra's concern was not to be dismissed entirely. It would be decades until the Mechanicus could build an orbital shipyard from their current facilities, and so the Celestial Lions were stuck recruiting from a single world which they currently controlled less than half of. (Admittedly, they could jury-rig one voidship with parts from two others damaged in the crash, but while one voidship was enough for travel, it would be vulnerable to any hostile fleet, and could not carry enough men to seize another world.) And Xenos controlled some part of that same world, and abhumans yet another part, and the omnipresent Orks... which were technically also Xenos, but when Natohk thought of Xenos, he thought of the ancient and deceitful Eldar, or of the Tau Collective that showed the willingness of different Xenos to unite against Mankind. Feral Orks, though, you just shot and that was that.

Natohk briefly entertained the absurd thought that these should perhaps be called Feudal Orks rather than Feral Orks, as the planet they were located on was certainly a Feudal World and not a Feral World. Then he returned his attention to his duties.

Natohk thought Amra an optimist, but they were united in their wish to learn the facts of the separated Battle-Brothers, and so he once again went over the possibilities in his mind. Truth drugs were ineffective against the oolitic kidney, and torture was ineffective against the will of an Astartes. Against infiltrators he might have employed subtle questions to catch a foreign spy, but those were ineffective against the possibility of corruption from within the Company. He had no access to a Shrine-World, and the aquila made a poor substitute. He had once asked Hath-Horeb to read the Emperor's Tarot, but the readings were inconclusive: the Mutant and the High Lord to the left, the Ecclesiarch in the center, the Rogue Trader and the Noble to the right. "An omen concerning tithe or distribution of gene-seed," the Librarian had said cryptically, launching into an explanation of how he had interpreted the spread, which Natohk found rather unhelpful regarding the resolution of the matter at hand. Finally, Natohk recalled an Inquisitor who used to check the personal libraries and databank access histories of suspects, but Separatio Anomalia was hardly a place where suspects might be storing Chaos tomes. Were there other approaches he could use in these circumstances? None came to mind at the moment.

Eventually, he concluded there was nothing more to be done than to wait and see, and bring the aquila again next week. In the end, the truth would be discovered, one way or the other.

There's a fanmade Emperor's Tarot supplement that fills out the cards with suits of Minor Arcana: Adeptio, Discordia, Excuteria, Mandatio. I randomly rolled a set of cards:
Mutant is "3 of Discordia"
High Lord is "14 of Mandatio"
Ecclesiarch is "5 of Major Arcana" (the Hierophant in classic tarot)
Rogue Trader is "12 of Excuteria"
Noble is "5 of Mandatio".

Mutant is low-ranked, but paired with the High Lord it suggests a potential type of mutation important enough for the High Lords to concern themselves with, and the gene-seed tithe fits that description. Similarly, the Rogue Trader and the Noble suggest someone carrying important goods back and forth. Again, gene-seed. The Ecclesiarch represents doctrine, faith and obedience, and if we are to treat the Emperor's Tarot as working in-universe, the card should perhaps be reversed: signifying the Celestial Lions' break with tradition. Hath-Horeb might have been reading the fortune of the Celestial Lions rather than the 3rd Company specifically.
 
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Heresy Tracker
Thought I'd put this here as a heresy tracker. This is written both as a record, as well as a look at what the perspective of any future investigation would be. Note, these aren't all necessarily 'true'. There's significant legal disputes that could be had with a number of these. For example, Astartes have ancient and prestigious rights to protect the Imperium, and as such in theory they can do what they like. Simialrly, they regularly withhold geneseed tithes because they're busy or rebuilding etc, and the Mechanicum are fine with this (as long as it doesn't continue indefinitely).

Pre-Mallus
  • Abandoning a duty commanded by the Emperor's representatives, the High Lords of Terra, to safeguard Elara's Veil
  • Forsaking sacred oaths and bonds with the other Chapters of the Adeptus Vaelarii
  • Questioning the Emperor's Most Holy Inquisition in public and causing His Most Obedient and Loyal Servants of the wider Imperium to doubt
  • Withholding and concealing the Chapters' numbers, including falsifying status reports and sabotaging the Adeptus Terra's gene-seed tithes
  • Subverting organisations of the Adeptus Terra to support the Chapter's desertion and flight from the Imperium
On Mallus
  • Establishing rule over a planet without the proper authority
  • Permitting unsanctioned psychic investigations and experimentation
  • Dereliction of duty in tolerating the existence of the filthy Xenos race, the Lizardmen
  • Violating the Codex Astartes and subverting the authority of the Adeptus Mechanicus and other Imperial organisations, including intentionally subverting the authority and independance of various organisations
  • Violating the Codex Astatres' dictates regarding Chapter organisation and the training of Neophytes
  • Elevating and honouring the warp-tainted witch, Amra, to the position of Chapter Master
  • Permitting rampant mutation and psychic contagion to infect the Chapter
  • Unsanctioned tampering with the Emperor's Holy Design, the Astartes gene-seed
 
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Hath-Horeb might have been reading the fortune of the Celestial Lions rather than the 3rd Company specifically.
I propose an alternate reading of the Mutant and High Lord pairing.

Mutant is low-ranked, but paired with the High Lord it suggests a potential type of mutation important enough for the High Lords to concern themselves with, and the gene-seed tithe fits that description.
I think mutation is more a change in how this chapter operates as opposed to biological variation( although, that's probably happening on this world). On a meta sense, we are planning for a departure from past operations because in a very real sense those traditions
The Ecclesiarch represents doctrine, faith and obedience, and if we are to treat the Emperor's Tarot as working in-universe, the card should perhaps be reversed
are killing the Celestial Lions. The Lions could follow Obedience, Doctrine and Faith no problem, but it was because had held to the faith that the Lions felt confident enough to discuss the original issue. A less obedient chapter would have either revolted(and subsequently died) and a more obedient would have said nothing at all. For nothing needed to be said to question the will of the Inquisition.

There's a very strong possibility that the Inquisition wouldn't have stopped until the Chapter was dead, and the Lions probably knew it as well.

This means the Rogue Trader and Noble pairing could mean the gene seed( either, as a sign to the actual High Lords that something suspect occurs or the first piece of evidence of the Lions' break from tradition), or it could be an overall statement on the Celestial Lions fleeing known space. After all, Rogue Traders are the ones most well known for going where nobody in the Imperium has gone before, and Nobility is often the class most arrogant to detach worlds from Imperial control.
 
Graduation Interlude
Voting on the tithe plan will close sometime tomorrow (Saturday). I think this will be sufficient time to write something up, but let me know if you wanted longer. Assume that any Aspirants left without trainers are basically dead because there's no one properly monitoring them for geneseed rejection etc on missions.

Graduation Interlude

"Close in. No more drills, no more practice."

D'leh, Scout Marine of the Celestial Lions, knelt before the Captain.

Beside him were seven others, each bearing the training blades of their youth.

"You are all about to receive the honour of going into combat for the first time as Celestial Lions. You are no longer Scouts." Black Nassor said.

At last… fourteen years, ever since his parents had given him up to the Celestial Lions, fourteen years culminated in this moment.

Four years as an Aspirant, training, memorising the Chapter's history, losing himself in the tales of hunts and valour across Elysium IX, the Prideworld.

He had been nine years old when he joined the Blood Trials, the youngest to be accepted. He had killed there, killed beasts, killed friends, killed the child he was.

Then ten years as a Scout, the agonies of the surgeries to turn him into a Space Marine, the training under Sido, the crash and the year in the jungle fighting against the Lizardmen, then the most recent events, burning the Beastmen, renewing his faith and fervour against evil.

Finally he had passed through the Jagged Claw. It had been a terror, but he looked to the Emperor and his gene-sire. 'Defiance' had been the wall-name of Rogal Dorn during the Siege of Terra, and D'leh had held that in his mind as the ancient Pain Glove wracked his body and bit into his flesh.

He emerged with the scars common to all Celestial Lions, the mark of his passage, but he emerged a Space Marine.

He did not weep, the terror had proved him a man, and it was not fitting for men to such things. Duty filled him, rage and hate filled him. Aside went the emotions of mortals, the doubt of the candleborn who sought only their own wealth or survival, the sorrow and the fear too. He lived for a higher power now, and that power commanded that he kill.

"You are Battle Brothers, but more than this, you are Devastators." Nassor continued, "May your reach be without limit, and your touch without mercy. Fire shall roar from your fingertips, but shall consume you not. May the hide of the Lion protect you as you don it's claws."

"We are the blazing wrath." D'leh replied, his brothers joining his cant, "We bring the Emperor's Light."

The Celestial Lions followed the Codex Astartes, and the sacred text ordained that after Scouts became Battle Brothers they were to join Devastator Squads, two for each Battle Company. They held the heavy weapons of the Chapter, they brought death from afar, and in doing so they learnt steadiness and resolve.

"The people of this world call us 'Zangbeto'." Nassor said, "They call us watchers in the dark, slayers of evil, protectors… You will go forth now and to your duty. Honour your orders, be diligent and valiant in your battle rites, be faithful and true, be the Lion that protects the world of Men."

"As the Emperor protects us." the cant replied.

Nassor dismissed them and they turned to the Sergeant.

Though perhaps somehow D'leh had hoped to be posted to someone else, Sido was there before them, rotating out of the 10th Company and to the 2nd while another Sergeant replaced him to train more Scouts. The man was as harsh as ever, but over time D'leh had almost come to look to him as a father.

"We go to Norsca."

The order electrified them as if one of the Metallica Corpuscarii had laid their hands upon their shoulders and D'leh looked to the others, each with the excitement of a new mission in their eyes.

"We go into a nest of mutants and daemons. Guard your souls well." Sido continued, and D'leh knew all too well what he was talking about.

Several Chaplains and other officers, along with their guards, had gone to the northern land to extract a tithe, and rumour had it that the tithe had proved far more bountiful than anyone had imagined. D'leh knew several hundred Aspirants had already been returned to Atakora, the Lions' new Fortress-Monastery, though D'leh didn't know what was being done with them as certainly it was unusual to even have that many. In his own tithing, though voluntary, there had been only eighty children of which D'leh himself was now the only survivor.

"Of all the enemies we face, Chaos is the truest, the most base, the most dangerous." Sido spoke, leading them through the ruin of the Serenkai, "Chaos breaks men's souls, Chaos brings the pestilence of daemons, every time we march from our fortresses we march to face down Chaos and banish it. The Ork is wily and brutal, the Eldar perfidious, yet the Xenos does not corrupt as Chaos does. The Heretic too is but a symptom and often a pawn of the Dark Gods, yet with faith, all things are possible."

They entered one of the Armoury-Shrines across the Battle Barge and Sido bade each of them see to their wargear as Servitors and Techpriests came forward.

Sacred incense burned upright in pots around the shrine, and one Servitor bore the rods as it worked in an atrophied hand. The ventilation of the ship hummed and whirred as D'leh stood, the connectors of the Black Carapace under his skin ready. He stepped into the sabatons of his Power Armour for the first time., the lights of the Armoury Sensorium scanned over him, automated arms wrenching his own apart.

The inner plate slotted into him, as if a blade piercing his belly, but then the feeling was gone, the phantom haptic feedback of the advanced technology echoing through his mind.

Vambraces, greaves, his breast and backplates, the Servitors held them fast as Artisan-Serfs worked, their tools whirring as they sealed him into his Armour under the watchful eye of the senior Techpriest. Each plate was like an embrace, and then the powerpack came, the might of a plasma reactor filling his limbs with strength.

With the armour of the Astartes he was more than man, more than mere transhuman, he was a god of battle, with the strength of twenty men or more, able to turn a tank over or vault a chasm, even to survive a fall into a planet's atmosphere from orbit.

"Brother Arif," a Servitor chimed, "Take you this Heavy Bolter, and bear it well." and another Servitor gave over the massive weapon.

Arif had proved an able hand with such deathdealers, and the mechanised chime of the Servitor's voice simply confirmed his status, worthy of recognition by the Company's leadership.

"Brother Kassim." the Servitor said next, and Kassim received a missile launcher with the same benediction.

Others were simply given bolters, but the Techmarine himself approached D'leh as he knelt, the autosenses of his armour telling him all manner of things about his environment only using the vibrations of the deckplate.

The Techmarine came to a stop before D'leh, his ceremonial robes covering his Artificer Armour like a massive statue, and he spoke, timbred voice rasping from his vox-caster, "Look to your battle gear and it will protect you."

"We guard it with our lives." D'leh replied along with the others.

"As your armour guards your life."

"As it has my fallen brethren."

"Honour the craft of death."

"We serve only the Emperor."

"Honour the battle gear of the dead."

"We ask only to serve. "

The Techpriest apprised him for a long moment, then from his robes produced a glowing plasma weapon. The power cell and the accumulator coils shone in the varied light of the Armoury-Shrine, and D'leh saw the maw of the gun was formed as a beast's roaring mouth.

"This Plasma Gun was forged by my brother of the Emperor's Spears, the War-Priest Ducarius." The Techmarine said, "It was given to our Chapter as a gift. Wield it now to strike down the Emperor's foes."

"The Emperor Protects." was all D'leh could muster in response.

As he replied to the Techmarine, the newly ordained Battle Brother found his attention drawn to a particular plate of armour. There was new paintwork on his right knee, plain coverings and the absence of the Manticora Bestia Fidelitas, a sigil which represents the unity of the three Chapters of the Adeptus Vaelarii. Once, D'leh knew, the Celestial Lions had guarded Elara's Veil, and he absently wondered what had happened to the region once the Chapter had left. The precise reasons and specifics of the departure had never been told to him, and indeed, it was not spoken of openly.

No matter, war called.

They swiftly boarded the Thunderhawk and it roared through the atmosphere, the former Scouts reciting their litanies. Over the years Sergeant Sido had continued to encourage D'leh in his prayers, and the rest of the Scouts had followed his example. All the squad now wore amulets made in the fashion of a rosarius. Not true ones, only the Chaplains possessed such relics, but simply minor ones, idols of gold and steel.

"Holy Emperor." the Scout addressed his god, "May the wings of the Aquila surround me, protect me." and his fingers turned over the beads of his amulet, wrapping it around the handle of his plasma gun and connecting it to his wrist in the manner of the Black Templars, who went into battle with their weapons chained to their limbs.

"25 kilometres to landing." the vox of the Techmarine pilot reported.

"Ready yourselves." Sido ordered.

The distance passed in what seemed like an instant, D'leh opened his eyes and saw the churned and muddy ground as the landing ramp opened. The mag-locks released and fire flooded his veins as D'leh charged our, plasma gun brandished alongside his Battle Brothers' own weapons to secure the landing site.
 
[X] conduct a final blood trial to cut the number of aspirants to more manageable levels the trial will involve groups of ten aspirants acting as a team to hunt down a vicious predator in the jungle make the trail about teamwork and cunning then strength. failers that survive but are intact and show some promises and steely faith will be made into a well-equipped unit similar to the stormtroopers they will carry out missions that the chapter deems important but not important enough for space marine deployment. additionally, they will bolster small units of Astartes of one or two squads they are to drown from recuts who have failed to become Astartes but whose faith and fighting skill are notable. The unis will number 1000 men and be designated the Hyenia battalion



this is all I can think of unless we can store them in stasis then we have to do something this is my idea lets make a support unit for our marines to pad their numbers I'm all ear for improvements thoughts and comments welcome
 
any suggestions as that's what I could do in 10 minutes we only have so much gene-seed and power armour you could do your own write in and improve on mine
I think we should go ahead with the suggestion of tapping on older marines for their glands. Just to push the number of glands from 600 to 700. From there, do a modified Black Templar approach:
Black Templars maintain a custom among their Scouts whereby each Battle Brother will take an apprentice of sorts." Black Nassor suggested, "We might adopt a similar custom as our cousins. 360 Scouts could be trained by Veterans, while each of us could also take a Neophyte, perhaps more than one, that would bring us up to 500 in training at least!"
5 neophytes to a Teacher. Those teacher can be Sergeants, Veterans, Chaplains or older Scouts who came from Off World.
I have 36 Sergeants." Vularakh said, "But to take more from the Companies risks robbing them of expertise in battle. At most no more than 10 Scouts should be assigned to any one Sergeant."

I'm thinking we pull 25 Sergeants as Teachers, and we pull 25 from everywhere else. The other 11 will be designing teamwork exercises( the ability to kill is fine, but can they work with recruits from other cultures? If no, then they might have to go.), mental exercises to test their mind( and potentially washout recruits for consistently terribly tactical planning) and a review board.

In one and half years, we do a shuffle of neophytes and Teachers, so every prospective Marine gets a different varied Veteran to pass on knowledge. The shuffle is there to determine who is good a teaching, and who could be great at teaching. Maybe, some Scouts have the potential as Instructors? Neophytes get used to working with each other, and this should disrupt some of the Norscan cultural ties.

They train 2 more shuffles, and if health complications haven't killed off anyone else then they go on to the Scout pool before finally being assigned a company. Or maybe, particularly neophytes distinguish themselves to our resident Tech Marine so they go off to learn of the machine spirit or become Chaplains.

Edit: I guess, we could be biased and set up two lists: 1 of Norsca recruits and 1 of everyone else. Those on the Everyone Else list get an auto pass, and those on the Norsca list get a second glance to see if we can't push them out.
 
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Thought I'd put this here as a heresy tracker. This is written both as a record, as well as a look at what the perspective of any future investigation would be.

Pre-Mallus
  • Abandoning a duty commanded by the Emperor's representatives, the High Lords of Terra
  • Forsaking sacred oaths and bonds with the other Chapters of the Adeptus Vaelarii
  • Questioning the Emperor's Most Holy Inquisition
  • Withholding and concealing the Chapters' numbers, including falsifying status reports and sabotaging the Adeptus Terra's gene-seed tithes
On Mallus
  • Establishing rule over a planet without the proper authority
  • Unsanctioned psychic investigations and experimentation
  • Dereliction of duty in tolerating the existence of the filthy Xenos race, the Lizardsmen
  • Violating the Codex Astartes and subverting the authority of the Adeptus Mechanicus and other Imperial organisations
I get the impression that Rogue traders are allowed broad latitude when it comes to bringing human civilizations outside the imperium into the imperium, but I guess their peers(astartes chapter masters and Inquisitors) aren't? I'm actually kind of surprised by that.
I was under the impression that once you get to being a big fish in whatever sized pond you're operating in the imperium generally won't interfere with you, and will in fact preserve you against being interfered with.

Regardless, even without metaknowledge I'd argue they still can't justify messing up anything about the psykic forces that might be preserving this planet from chaos until they understand how they work and what's actually happening.
So the Slann grant the Lizardmen a stay of execution for a little while longer.

PS don't techmarines and librarius members also hold a high rank equivalency in the mechanicus and Psykana? I thought they got some leeway for that rank.

I think the difference between our understandings is that I was under the impression that the Imperium is more open and explicit in hypocrtically allowing the actually important people to blow off orthodoxy or the theoretically harsh restrictions of imperial law, rather than it being an under the table understanding that you don't punish actually important people for some things.
 
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[] Plan A Fraction
-[] Tap Marine volunteers for Gland donation ideally for just a small boost of Glands
-[] Issue one last test that isn't a blood games; a test of teamwork. Can Norscan recruits work if Non-Norscan recruits? If No then fail them. Any deaths are also a fail; even if caused by non-Norscan recruits. Send oldest children as the first class of neophyte students.
-[] Designate 50 Marines( 25 traditional Training Sergeants and 25 Marines of Other Professions) as emergency Teachers. The other 11 Training Sergeants will be a review board, materials study, and impartial judge( or as unbiased as possible). This will turn out to an appropriate 5:1 Instructor to Reviewer.
-[] Each Teacher will take 5 neophytes as perspective students to train for one and a half years (also a 5:1 ratio).
-[] At the end of that time, the review board tests the neophytes ( and search for which Marines might have skills in teaching). Poor neophytes get booted, and poor teachers get swapped from non-teaching Space Marines. Neophytes that aren't bad, but had a poor teacher get place on a 10 man 'remedial,' class with a member of the Veteran Trainer from the Review Board. This Trainer leaves the Board.
-[] Shuffle students, so they have a different 'squad,' of peer Neophytes and Teachers. Do not include all teachers into the shuffle. Inject another group of potential neophytes to replace lost Neophytes or the 5:1 ratio; Whichever is smaller at this time. Teachers that weren't included in the shuffle will teach the incoming batch of neophytes. All 'squads,' stay together for another year and a half.
-[] Do a Mission for the Chapter with the Scouts as the second Shuffle's test. It should be something that the Chapter has a great deal of intelligence, so a Khong incident doesn't happen.
-[] A final time of learning and study while the gene mods take place in the last few years of
-[] Send graduating class to Scouts where they will take more missions.

Thoughts?
 
Voting on the tithe plan will close sometime tomorrow (Saturday). I think this will be sufficient time to write something up, but let me know if you wanted longer. Assume that any Aspirants left without trainers are basically dead because there's no one properly monitoring them for geneseed rejection etc on missions.
FWIW, I'd been waiting because I thought there was going to be more writeup of this previously mentioned item:
You might consider actions such as:
• Use rapid zygote maturation to grow enough gene-seed to implant in the Aspirants
I'll decide properly what that entails in the results chapter, but this might mean growing the zygotes quicker.
But if you want it closed I guess I'll turn my previous draft into a vote now.

[X] Plan Knockoff Templar
-[X] Scout Veteran trainers take 10 aspirants as normal, all other Battle-Brothers take 1 aspirant like the Black Templars
-[X] Spare Norscans encouraged to join the Militarum, possibly Missionaria or Mechanicus, etc. with a loose intent of having local expertise when those units visit Norsca
-[X] Do not attempt gene-slaves or progenoid extraction from veterans at present

Item #1 gets us a large crop of recruits, and follows both precedent and an officer suggestion, so it should be minimally heretical and not risk too much internal conflict, though a lot of our actions will be tied up :cry:
Item #2 is too young to be proper soldiers for a while, but I figure our forces can still find use for gofers and batmen while they train. We're sure to be seeing Norsca again as part of the Mallus Compliance, and having some soldiers then who can go "this trail leads through the mountain pass, that sound indicates a giant bear" sounds useful to me. Hundreds of teens joining thousands of soldiers should have less cultural drift there, too.
Item #3 is perhaps a default, but I wanted to be explicit about it.

[] Plan A Fraction
-[] Tap Marine volunteers for Gland donation ideally for just a small boost of Glands
-[] Issue one last test that isn't a blood games; a test of teamwork. Can Norscan recruits work if Non-Norscan recruits? If No then fail them. Any deaths are also a fail; even if caused by non-Norscan recruits. Send oldest children as the first class of neophyte students.
-[] Designate 50 Marines( 25 traditional Training Sergeants and 25 Marines of Other Professions) as emergency Teachers. The other 11 Training Sergeants will be a review board, materials study, and impartial judge( or as unbiased as possible). This will turn out to an appropriate 5:1 Instructor to Reviewer.
-[] Each Teacher will take 5 neophytes as perspective students to train for one and a half years (also a 5:1 ratio).
-[] At the end of that time, the review board tests the neophytes ( and search for which Marines might have skills in teaching). Poor neophytes get booted, and poor teachers get swapped from non-teaching Space Marines. Neophytes that aren't bad, but had a poor teacher get place on a 10 man 'remedial,' class with a member of the Veteran Trainer from the Review Board. This Trainer leaves the Board.
-[] Shuffle students, so they have a different 'squad,' of peer Neophytes and Teachers. Do not include all teachers into the shuffle. Inject another group of potential neophytes to replace lost Neophytes or the 5:1 ratio; Whichever is smaller at this time. Teachers that weren't included in the shuffle will teach the incoming batch of neophytes. All 'squads,' stay together for another year and a half.
-[] Do a Mission for the Chapter with the Scouts as the second Shuffle's test. It should be something that the Chapter has a great deal of intelligence, so a Khong incident doesn't happen.
-[] A final time of learning and study while the gene mods take place in the last few years of
-[] Send graduating class to Scouts where they will take more missions.

Thoughts?
Why are you tapping volunteers for gland donation when we have more than 600 Progenoid Glands and your plan only seems to take 250 aspirants for the 50 teachers? Did I not understand the math somewhere?

In general this plan feels like it's micromanaging elements of teaching that the Astartes have experience with, my impression was that our job as voters is mostly the high-level decisions not the specifics of shuffling around neophytes.

Assume that any Aspirants left without trainers are basically dead because there's no one properly monitoring them for geneseed rejection etc on missions.
I'm uncertain who this applies to. If my plan assigns 500 of the latest tithe to various trainers, does that mean the other 800 die because the chapter already started injecting them? Or does it mean that if a Veteran Scout Trainer dies, his 10 aspirants die too?
 
Feck, I know now what I want to vote for much more exactly but it's really just Exmorri's plan but with also removing some progenoids because I'm all or minimizing our casualties and that genuinely strikes me as the best way to do so despite the risk.
At the same time, I don't like proposing plans that are only slightly different than what's already been formalized unless anyone else is interested in such?


EDIT: I think I have a bit of a better plan now.
 
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[X] Plan: Growth Medium

-[X]Adopt More Templar Type Training Structures
-[X] Spare Norscans encouraged to join the Militarum, possibly Missionaria or Mechanicus, etc. with a loose intent of having local expertise when those units visit Norsca. Serfs and servitors should not be ignored as options. Really don't just waste useful manpower.
-[X]Heavily Encourage but don't mandate the giving of progeroid for this one occasion that may be instrumental in returning the chapter to strength.
-[X] If numbers still need to be weeded further, tests of cooperation and some big game hunting should be issued, i'd be shocked if their aren't a few basilisks or jabberslythes, chaos dragons or other marine killers waiting out in these jungles.
-[X] Also take a stab at figuring out this Rapid Zygote maturation process but don't devote more than 12% of our stock to such
 
but I guess their peers(astartes chapter masters and Inquisitors) aren't? I'm actually kind of surprised by that.
Entirely agree with you that the Imperium don't enforce the rules around this, and indeed heresy in general, in a consistent way. Partly the tracker is written from an IC perspective, that's why it says 'filthy xenos' for lizardmen for example.

Specifically using authority as an example, the Codex Astartes specifically forbids Marines to command mortal troops, and in general a lot of Imperial regulations are designed to prevent the conditions for another Horus Heresy (eg, separating army and navy, forbidding combined arms regiments).

Generally we don't know what the Emperor wanted for his Space Marines after the Great Crusade, there's a line somewhere that says he was going to kill them all like the Thunder Warriors, but Gulliman seems to think they could become administrators.

In universe the authority of space marines is in question quite frequently. Strictly speaking they're only accountable to the High Lords, who I doubt care much if some marines seize a particular planet or sector. The problem becomes when other people get involved. There was some chapter who did that and an Imperial Fist Chaplain came up and killed all of them (it was not a well written story) because he considered it heresy. Comparably, the Karthan Sector command oppose Huron taking Badab, and complain to Terra about it, who don't care much for several hundred years till the Badab War breaks out. Also there's always Ultramar etc.

If you compare that to a Rogue Trader, the purposes of different organisations are different. I can see that Space Marines might not have the authority to do some things, but might be permitted or ordered to do them anyway, because the High Lords don't want Chapters wandering off all over the place when they need to be crusading in X sector. Comparably, Rogue Traders, like Inquisitors, are specifically and formally outside the chain of command. As another example, if an inquisitor or rogue trader created a pocket empire somewhere in a wilderness, eventually someone would say 'ok, give that to the administratum now'. yes an Inquisitor could do it with their authority, but they're not meant to be running worlds so some other inquisitors could turn up and say 'hang on a minute'.

Generally in this sort of case I'd emphasise the informal nature of authority in the Imperium. Chains of command are often not as precise as you're implying. Yes Techmarines have taken rites on Mars and similar, so might have a certain rank, probably as a Magos, but that doesn't, for example, mean an Archmagos could command them. Would a Librarian hold a specific and explicit rank in the Psykana? I don't think so, and I think actually on the negative, because Dark Angels let Librarians into the inner circle when they don't let techmarines because of the Mars association, however, 'would anyone question a librarian doing warp stuff' or 'would a psykana person obey a librarian' are entirely different questions and don't rely on that formal of a classification.

FWIW, I'd been waiting because I thought there was going to be more writeup of this previously mentioned item:
Didn't think you'd go for it as it's risky but I was going to cover it in the results chapter, in any case, for now:

Experimental Rapid Zygote Maturation - When Apothecaries mature zygotes from the Chapter's Gene-seed, they can only implant as many seed-organs as there are Progenoid Glands in the first place. Thus, a single Progenoid Gland can be used to mature a single Maintainer, a single Forge of Strength, a single Rememberer, and so on. With the experimental theory developed by Thalis in his study of the Chapter's Gene-seed, the Chief Apothecary believes he can modify this process to ensure each Progenoid can be used to create double the number of zygotes. This means that double the number of Scouts can be trained and implanted, with the survivors receiving the actual Progenoid Glands themselves. However, Thalis warns that the long term effects of such potentially heretical modifications to the Emperor's holy work cannot be predicted.

With this (if it worked given Thalis has just had the idea and hasn't tested it properly) you could effectively treat your geneseed stock as doubled. It wouldn't actually be, it's just the zygotes, but 90% of the aspirants are going to die anyway so they'll be enough progenoids at the end of the process. In general the problem isn't the lack of progenoids, its a downstream thing of a lack when you've got lots of aspirants.

In general this plan feels like it's micromanaging elements of teaching that the Astartes have experience with, my impression was that our job as voters is mostly the high-level decisions not the specifics of shuffling around neophytes.
Yea I'd agree with Exmorri. There's no need to specify specific elements of the different things, and I think that complicates things really. It's the same reason all the Companies have just numbers rather than 'heres brother so and so of squad 3 and here are his stats and he's armed with this'. The Blood Ravens quest torraror did had that sort of thing and I always thought it was insane and I'm not really sure how they managed to maintain such a system.
I'm uncertain who this applies to. If my plan assigns 500 of the latest tithe to various trainers, does that mean the other 800 die because the chapter already started injecting them? Or does it mean that if a Veteran Scout Trainer dies, his 10 aspirants die too?

So no one has started to be implanted yet. Oh apart from Tithe 1, they have. But none of the 1331 Tithe 2 cohort have. If someone from Tithe 2 isn't implanted they'll be released elsewhere (eg to serfguard) and probably won't be heard of again, other than perhaps a minor reference as you say if they know what a bear sounds like in a future battle etc. Comparably, if you've got 36 Sergeant trainers now and you implant 500 Scouts, you can only properly monitor 360 of them using the trainers, so therefore the remaining unmonitored scouts might have some medical problem that no one picks up on and therefore die because their geneseed broke or whatever.

On your second point, no, if a trainer dies their scouts will be distributed again, If you went a little bit over this, eg 10 scouts distributed to 5 squads meaning 12 scouts per trainer, that would be fine, if you went to 20 though that would be a problem. Comparably, if you went with the Black Templar idea, you'd have to assume that if a battle brother died then his attendant died too given they'd be squishier.



To lay all this out:

130 Tithe 1 Scouts, which will be reduced to about 20 in another 7 years or so. At that point they'll require 20 Progenoid Glands to implant.
1331 Tithe 2 Aspirants, which will be reduced to 133 in roughly 9 years, at which point they'll need 130 Progenoid Glands to implant.

However, both groups need zygotes to implant now, and there are specific stages at which each new organ is produced and cultured by the Apothecaries, then implanted.

You have 612 Progenoids, therefore your current 'implantation capacity' is 612. With Thalis' experimental treatment, you could have more. Equally this could go badly wrong and wipe out your stock of modified organs entirely. At most, you could double your capacity to 1224.

The 10th Company has 36 Veteran Trainers. This is an abstraction, I have no wish to specifically track the squad size of each. As such assume that if one squad gets reduced then the trainer will take on more from another or whatever. Therefore your training capacity is 360.

Your current organisation is as follows:

1​
2​
3​
4​
10​
ArmouryReclusiamLibrariumApothecariumTotals
Leaders
2​
2​
x
2​
1​
1​
2​
1​
1​
12​
Apoths
1​
2​
x
1​
3​
2​
9​
Chaplains
1​
1​
x
1​
4​
7​
Techmarines
1​
x
14​
5​
20​
Librariansx
2​
2​
Veterans
7​
x
36​
1​
44​
BBs
78​
x
60​
138​

Not available for various reasons: 3 apoths, 5 acolytes, 2 apprentice techmarines, 2 veterans and a librarian, 32 bbs, 1 librarian, 8 bbs

You could use these numbers to boost your training and implantations capacities. Assume that you could get 2 Progenoids from each specialist, leader, or veteran, and from 3/4s of the bbs, for a total of 396 more Progenoids, bringing you up to 1008 Progenoids. Again, there are risks to this.

Assume that each leader, specialist or veteran could act as a trainer. For example, you could have 10 Norscans with trade skills join the Armoury to become Techmarines in future. You could take the last remaining veterans from the 1st Company and put them in the 10th. This has effects though, if there's no one in the 10th then you don't really have a Terminator squad capability anymore because Brother so and so is off doing something else training people and he might not be able to make it back to put his suit on in time to fight whatever's attacking. Assume also that the Techmarines, for example, would be busy actually making stuff, so assigning them a load of people to train would further reduce your action budget potentially. However, in extremis, you could assign 360 Scouts to specialists instead of scouting, 138 to your 138 BBs as Black Templar style initiates, and 70 more to your last 'free' veterans. That's 568 extra slots, +360 existing budget, for 928 training capacity.

I'll note that the 10th have already tested and so on. The remaining Aspirants of the Norscan tithe are very good, and there's little to differentiate them form each other in terms of quality. Therefore only crude methods like 'have them kill each other till you have 10% left' are available.
 
I might also make the point that the training aspect could potentially be delayed a couple of turns. The Aspirants could be implanted and trained as a cohort, then when a quarter of them inevitably die, it might be easier to divide the survivors up for personalised training in squads.
 
I have some ideas, but I think I'm not going to complicate my plan or try risky stuff just now I think. RIP lots of Aspirants.
Generally in this sort of case I'd emphasise the informal nature of authority in the Imperium. Chains of command are often not as precise as you're implying.
Games Workshop sometimes seems to actively run away from questions of logistics. ;) But IMO, if we take the logistics of WH40K seriously, it implies that chains of command really need to be flexible, and laws have a lot of leeway, for all the cases where sending a message across a Sector takes weeks (again, GW is inconsistent) and sending people across a Sector takes months or years, and worse, those times when a warp rift or time anomaly or planetary crashlanding (cough) leaves someone unable to communicate with their superior authority or the rest of the Imperium for decades.

Here on Earth, the first transatlantic flight was made back in 1919, and transatlantic telephone calls were before that, and the telegraph before that again. We treat it as a fact of life that almost anyone can be contacted on a day's notice, and brought around the world within a few days. Major government institutions in first world countries have people sitting on call every day to answer questions within minutes.

The Imperium can't do that. The Imperium must have allowances for people who were out of contact for a long time and set up local authority and nonstandard institutions without prior approval, otherwise it's going to be a self-blamming meme every time an astropath dies. :tongue:

With that said, we're still doing heresy. :V But after the Sorcerer's Isles are conquered, I hope to take the Settlement of Araby option next turn:
Article:
The Settlement of Araby
With Araby conquered, it's time to establish and legislate the specific arrangements of political, economic, religious and social life in the newly acquired cities. Confessor Hermina plans to issue proclamations and edicts to slowly being the population in line with the Lex Imperialis.

and move from there to recreating some sort of local Administratum and making stuff a bit more independent of the Space Marines, and when the Inquisitors eventually show up we can blame a lot of the early stuff on emergency measures but it's all orthodox now. Right? 😇
 
The Imperium can't do that. The Imperium must have allowances for people who were out of contact for a long time and set up local authority and nonstandard institutions without prior approval, otherwise it's going to be a self-blamming meme every time an astropath dies. :tongue:
One of the interesting things about the Imperium vs other universes is the sabotage of various things by Gulliman and the High Lords. Yes, the GrimDarkness of it all means that there's a lot of mismanagement and corruption etc, but equally, I find the Imperium's organisation interesting because a lot of the failures are deliberate. To an extent, the Imperium faces the same failure of central planning and methods as the Soveits did post-ww2, and they've done the same thing as the Soviets and turned to lower level planning at the regions, but equally the Imperium is forever on the watch for treachery and subversion. They saw what central planning did in the Horus Heresy and Gulliman intentionally created a system which segregated command and control to prevent points of failure. The Ecclesiarchy is a separate organisation to the Administratum which is a separate organisation to the Admech which is a separate organisation to the Munitorum and so on. They're intensively pursuing a system where the impact of a particular traitor or sect is minimised.

In regards to communication, that depends really. Firstly you've got the Warp itself. That ripples about all over, for example, space travel is meant to be minimised, which means trade is minimised, which means planets have to pursue autarky to a limited extent. That's weird to us because for various reasons its cheaper to ship stuff across the world than it is to make it domestically in some cases.

Time itself is flexible in certain cases, but equally information is still going to be censored and controlled to a degree we find it difficult to consider. One of those reasons is Cognito-hazards. We have trouble with mis/disinformation irl, the Imperium has problems with people putting daemons on the internet.
 
Why are you tapping volunteers for gland donation when we have more than 600 Progenoid Glands and your plan only seems to take 250 aspirants for the 50 teachers? Did I not understand the math somewhere?
When I made it, I was thinking about how we would have multiple classes of students, but after some thought, I realized this is too complicated. We're not going to hit a Gland shortage.

Also, I think the greater issue is a lack of instructors like in Soviet Planning quest. We can pour resources to cover material equipment and hold large seminars to teach the Codex, but the crux of the issue is a lack of teachers.
 
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