Remove ads

Worm Morality Debate Thread

Holy shit, are we really going to have a debate about the death of Coil? Would it have been nicer if she'd helped him up and then they dueled or something? Considering he multiple times in the minutes before had tried to murder her and get away with it. Her and others, and if he lived he'd get away with it all and do it again.
 
The Laurent said:
Holy shit, are we really going to have a debate about the death of Coil? Would it have been nicer if she'd helped him up and then they dueled or something? Considering he multiple times in the minutes before had tried to murder her and get away with it. Her and others, and if he lived he'd get away with it all and do it again.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I didn't realize it was now suddenly moral to kill helpless people on their knees.
 
Polokun said:
I didn't realize it was now suddenly moral to kill helpless people on their knees.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Helpless? He was literally, even up to the last moment ordering people to shoot and kill Taylor and company. But let's actually play this out practically. What would you have done in her situation? Shrugged and accepted that the moral choice is to let him kill you and all of your friends?
 
The Laurent said:
Helpless? He was literally, even up to the last moment ordering people to shoot and kill Taylor and company. But let's actually play this out practically. What would you have done in her situation? Shrugged and accepted that the moral choice is to let him kill you and all of your friends?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
It's still murder, no matter how much you try to pretty it up.
 
Polokun said:
It's still murder, no matter how much you try to pretty it up.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
No it isn't. Much like the Joker or other insanely hyper lethal comic book characters killing Coil in that situation was self defense.

Edit:
Polokun said:
I wouldn't kill him, plain and simple. No one has the right to take life IMO.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Congratulations boyo, your prize is death for you and all your friends and a rapist supervillain with a torture fetish is now rules the city. Nice going hero.
 
Last edited:
Polokun said:
Then I see no reason why Tagg doesn't have the right to kill Taylor in the interrogation room either.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Your bullshit is showing. Unlike the Joker she's not a crazy serial killer that murders people at the drop of a hat. And unlike Coil she wasn't stubbornly determined to kill Tagg at any cost. The only reason Tagg got killed by her is because he and Alexandria put in a shit ton of effort to make her kill him. That's not self-defense that's a Darwin Award.
 
At the same time, I think that, personally, if Tagg had killed Skitter and I was on a jury I'd be really torn, enough to have reasonable doubt if he used a self-defense claim.

Just being honest.

That doesn't mean I don't understand Skitter's position, just that in Tagg's place, if events had gone a certain way, there'd be REASONABLE doubt.
 
Last edited:
landcollector said:
Tagg and Alexandria conspired to make Taylor believe they unlawfully murdered at least one Undersider. Self Defense.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Mook said:
Your bullshit is showing. Unlike the Joker she's not a crazy serial killer that murders people at the drop of a hat. And unlike Coil she wasn't stubbornly determined to kill Tagg at any cost. The only reason Tagg got killed by her is because he and Alexandria put in a shit ton of effort to make her kill him. That's not self-defense that's a Darwin Award.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Taylor has attacked Tagg in the past (Both professionally and literally) and would obviously do so again in the future. And guess what! She killed him. So yeah, it would've been self-defense.
 
A man who can haggle is never helpless.

Polokun said:
I wouldn't kill him, plain and simple. No one has the right to take life IMO.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

So Dragon should not have carved up those Cherish clones with her frickin' laser beams?

The no kill rule reminds me why if I wanted good vs evil action, I'd read a Star Wars story over a superhero story every single time.
 
Polokun said:
Taylor has attacked Tagg in the past (Both professionally and literally) and would obviously do so again in the future. And guess what! She killed him. So yeah, it would've been self-defense.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

EXACTLY! Taylor WAS Executing her right to Self-defense by killing him in order to save herself AND was acting "in defense of others" by stopping him and Alexandria from killing her friends I'm so glad you understand Polokun :D
 
On the other hand, think of it this way. Killing Coil is demonstrably self-defense, Killing Alexandria and Tagg, considering it happened in the spur of the moment, grief and outrage and certainly not planning it out in advance...so *At Most* it's two acts of second-degree murder. Which, to be fair, is enough to get her life-sentence in New Hampshire, but a lot less than Polokun seems to be implying when he throws around the word 'murder.'
 
Polokun said:
Then I see no reason why Tagg doesn't have the right to kill Taylor in the interrogation room either.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Well, when she started trying to kill him, he did technically have the right to try and kill her in self defense. But just as the same, Tagg and Alexandria willingly and knowingly provoked her by psychologically torturing her as they made her believe that they had killed one of her friends. So it's not like they were innocent victims.

This is one of those cases where you need a good lawyer, because on one hand, Taylor killed them, but on the other hand, they blatantly provoked her. So I think she would get hit with manslaughter? But then the PRT would also have a PR nightmare on their hands.
 
1986ctcel said:
EXACTLY! Taylor WAS Executing her right to Self-defense by killing him in order to save herself AND was acting "in defense of others" by stopping him and Alexandria from killing her friends I'm so glad you understand Polokun :D
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I mean he would be acting in self-defense.

Deadly Snark said:
This is one of those cases where you need a good lawyer, because on one hand, Taylor killed them, but on the other hand, they blatantly provoked her.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I meant when they were just talking, when Tagg said he's rather kill her then send her to the Birdcage.
 
Polokun said:
I mean he would be acting in self-defense.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Unfortunately the recent case where a guy got thrown in prison for 70 years (the same as pre-meditated murder) for purposefully setting a trap with an open garage door and his wife's purse in order to "catch" criminals and execute his "right to self-defense" shows that doesn't work. Tagg and Alexandria purposefully provoked Taylor to attack them so they can't claim self-defense.
 
Deadly Snark said:
First of all, how is that relevant?

Second of all, you'll notice that Tagg didn't do that, because he knows it would just be a stupid move.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
My point is, the justification to me works both ways. Both Coil and Taylor are helpless, and both would continue to be an antagonistic force if just let go. So calling the former just self-defense and the other plain murder just seems bs to me.
 
I think a really good lawyer, which she had, could bargain it down to Manslaughter for Alexandria (beccause she's a Cape and if you're going to charge people with murder when someone dies in a Cape fight, that gets tricky) and 2nd degree Murder with the lowest possible sentence for Tagg, since he's a civilian. Though I'm sure that the PRT if they really wanted her a Hero could pull strings and find a way to knock that down too, in exchange for, basically, what happened.

So yeah, that's my thought on it. It's not something she should have done, the Tagg-Alexandria thing, but I sympathize with where she came from, and I don't particularly cry myself to sleep over the fact that a War Criminal and Psychological Manipulator who was breaking ten times more laws than Taylor was dying.

So the difficulty here is separating moral and legal judgements, and then ideal legal judgement from what would actually happen.
 
1986ctcel said:
Unfortunately the recent case where a guy got thrown in prison for 70 years (the same as pre-meditated murder) for purposefully setting a trap with an open garage door and his wife's purse in order to "catch" criminals and execute his "right to self-defense" shows that doesn't work. Tagg and Alexandria purposefully provoked Taylor to attack them so they can't claim self-defense.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
You'll notice from above that Polokun is actually not talking about this situation but rather something that happened before. When Alexandria hadn't arrive and it was just Taylor and Tagg talking in a cell right after she surrendered.

Which Arrrgh.

Goddamit Polokun. I thought you had a interesting argument for once. Because the entire thing with the death of Alexandria and Tagg is actually a gray case were you could make very good points with.

But no, you had to fuck it up again and bring up something that is completely irrelevant and is in no way a good argument at all.
 
Deadly Snark said:
You'll notice from above that Polokun is actually not talking about this situation but rather something that happened before. When Alexandria hadn't arrive and it was just Taylor and Tagg talking in a cell right after she surrendered.

Which Arrrgh.

Goddamit Polokun. I thought you had a interesting argument for once. Because the entire thing with the death of Alexandria and Tagg is actually a gray case were you could make very good points with.

But no, you had to fuck it up again and bring up something that is completely irrelevant and is in no way a good argument at all.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Dude. I really don't give a fuck what you think of me. And that's just your opinion.

The bottom line is, I think it was immoral to kill Coil, plain and simple. People obviously have different standards on morals, and this is just mine.
 
Polokun said:
Dude. I really don't give a fuck what you think of me. And that's just your opinion.

The bottom line is, I think it was immoral to kill Coil, plain and simple. People obviously have different standards on morals, and this is just mine.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I'm not talking about you. I'm talking about your shitty arguments and your tendency of Polokuing interesting arguments that would go a long way of supporting your point of view.

But you think it would be moral for Tagg to kill Taylor? Because that is the impression you've been giving people.

And if Self-defense not a thing anymore?
 
Deadly Snark said:
I'm not talking about you. I'm talking about your shitty arguments and your tendency of Polokuing interesting arguments that would go a long way of supporting your point of view.

But you think it would be moral for Tagg to kill Taylor? Because that is the impression you've been giving people.

And if Self-defense not a thing anymore?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
No, I don't think that would be moral either. I just feel that the justification for killing Coil could just as easily be given for Tagg to kill Taylor.
 
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top