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Worm Morality Debate Thread

Polokun said:
Never said it hasnt happened, just that I think it's a seriously bad idea.
Yeah I would be for a police like that. People in position of power IMO should be of sufficient mental health to do so.
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Define mental health.

I've seen arguments from political parties about how anyone who opposes them is: insane, terrorists, racist, sexist, living in an echochamber, certifiable, or diseased.

Being homosexual was considered a mental illness. Gender dysphoria.

Where's the line?
 
The Laurent said:
So you'd support a policy that people with a mental illness shouldn't be allowed to hold office?

Wow.

*sits down for a second.*

Where do I begin?
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So you would be perfectly fine with electing someone into a position of power who was defined as being mentally retarded?

fallendruid said:
Define mental health.

I've seen arguments from political parties about how anyone who opposes them is: insane, terrorists, racist, sexist, living in an echochamber, certifiable, or diseased.

Being homosexual was considered a mental illness. Gender dysphoria.

Where's the line?
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So? Doctors once thought sawing off limbs was good medical practice, does that mean we shouldn't use doctors today? We've obviously gotten better at figuring out real sicknesses and actual problems not based on bigotry.
 
Polokun said:
So you would be perfectly fine with electing someone into a position of power who was defined as being mentally retarded?


So? Doctors once thought sawing off limbs was good medical practice, does that mean we shouldn't use doctors today? We've obviously gotten better at figuring out real sicknesses and actual problems not based on bigotry.
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The term is developmentally disabled now, but that's not the point. PTSD is not the same as being developmentally disabled, and you damn well know it.
 
The Laurent said:
The term is developmentally disabled now, but that's not the point. PTSD is not the same as being developmentally disabled, and you damn well know it.
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I sure as fuck wouldn't want somone in a position of power who suffers from severe PTSD, showing stuff like:

    • Irritability, angry outbursts or aggressive behavior
    • Always being on guard for danger
    • Overwhelming guilt or shame
    • Self-destructive behavior, such as drinking too much or driving too fast
    • Trouble concentrating
    • Trouble sleeping
    • Being easily startled or frightened
    • Negative feelings about yourself or other people
    • Inability to experience positive emotions
    • Feeling emotionally numb
    • Lack of interest in activities you once enjoyed
    • Hopelessness about the future
    • Memory problems, including not remembering important aspects of the traumatic event
    • Difficulty maintaining close relationships
    • Recurrent, unwanted distressing memories of the traumatic event
    • Reliving the traumatic event as if it were happening again (flashbacks)
    • Upsetting dreams about the traumatic event
    • Severe emotional distress or physical reactions to something that reminds you of the event
and so on and so on.
 
Polokun said:
I sure as fuck wouldn't want somone in a position of power who suffers from severe PTSD, showing stuff like:

    • Irritability, angry outbursts or aggressive behavior
    • Always being on guard for danger
    • Overwhelming guilt or shame
    • Self-destructive behavior, such as drinking too much or driving too fast
    • Trouble concentrating
    • Trouble sleeping
    • Being easily startled or frightened
    • Negative feelings about yourself or other people
    • Inability to experience positive emotions
    • Feeling emotionally numb
    • Lack of interest in activities you once enjoyed
    • Hopelessness about the future
    • Memory problems, including not remembering important aspects of the traumatic event
    • Difficulty maintaining close relationships
    • Recurrent, unwanted distressing memories of the traumatic event
    • Reliving the traumatic event as if it were happening again (flashbacks)
    • Upsetting dreams about the traumatic event
    • Severe emotional distress or physical reactions to something that reminds you of the event
and so on and so on.
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One, you know that all of that can be treated, right? Or dealt with. It's not permenant. And two, are you seriously listing the ENTIRE catalogue of what you can have with a mental illness as if it's the mental illness for everyone?

It's a list of possible symptoms, nobody with PTSD has all or even most or even half of them. And holy shit, you've gone from 'elect' to 'in a position of power.' So fuck people with PTSD, just fire them from their jobs if they are in any position of power...
 
Actually, I'm pretty sure that several American presidents or presidential candidates have had PTSD. A lot of them have had military service (a good place to pick up some serious trauma) and John McCain was held in a prison camp where they tortured him a fair amount.
 
And that's not even getting into a lot of the 'people with Mental Illnesses are horrible' vibes that are wafting off of Polokun when he types stuff like that. Or his misunderstanding of how that stuff works.

I wasn't expecting this, but in talking about superpowers and how I wouldn't literally fire and ostracize people with them from any position that has any authority over anywhere, we've stumbled across Polokun's biases against people who happen to have mental illnesses.

Also sometimes known as mentalism.
 
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The Laurent said:
And that's not even getting into a lot of the 'people with Mental Illnesses are horrible' vibes that are wafting off of Polokun when he types stuff like that. Or his misunderstanding of how that stuff works.

I wasn't expecting this, but in talking about superpowers and how I wouldn't literally fire and ostracize people with them from any position that has any authority over anywhere, we've stumbled across Polokun's biases against people who happen to have mental illnesses.

Also sometimes known as mentalism.
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Dude. Fuck you. I am not biased or hateful towards people with PTSD.

Second,I am talking about what's better for the people of a country or organization of a whole. And it is NOT a bad thing to ask at least that the person in charge is mentally healthy. What's more important, that one person can have a position of power, or the safety of stability of hundreds or even millions of people to ask for at least mental competency in people?
 
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Polokun said:
Dude. Fuck you. I am not biased or hateful towards people with PTSD.

Second,I am talking about what's better for the people of a coutnry or organization of a whole. And it is NOT a bad thing to ask at least that the person in charge is mentally healthy.
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Right, but you're giving the impression that you're using a very suspect definition of 'mentally healthy'
 
Polokun said:
So you would be perfectly fine with electing someone into a position of power who was defined as being mentally retarded?
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I'm perfectly fine with them running for office. If they get elected, obviously their developmental disorder hasn't unduly affected them.

Polokun said:
So? Doctors once thought sawing off limbs was good medical practice, does that mean we shouldn't use doctors today? We've obviously gotten better at figuring out real sicknesses and actual problems not based on bigotry.
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And doctors today still think sawing off limbs is good medical practice. We also still use trepanning and leeches.

I could stand up right now and say that I'm a member of the Tea Party. And someone out there would be going. 'Hah. I always knew fallendruid was a racist.' That's an example of bigotry, and racism - both things that are considered in some circles to be mental illness, and definitely affect job performance in a position of power. I could say I'm a republican - and someone out there would consider it a sign of insanity on my part, or my inclinations towards being a bible thumping right wing anarcho-terrorist. I could say I'm a democrat - and someone out there would consider it a sign of a mental disease.

Homosexuality is arguably mental illness, if one assumes the purpose of life is to propagate our genes, since homosexual individuals are genetic dead ends.
Gender Dysphoria is a component of schizophrenia, which is a serious mental illness that would adversely affect job performance in any position.

Polokun said:
I sure as fuck wouldn't want somone in a position of power who suffers from severe PTSD, showing stuff like:
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Assuming they got elected, then obviously they've got it under control enough to be effective.
 
Thrice.Great said:
Right, but you're giving the impression that you're using a very suspect definition of 'mentally healthy'
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fallendruid said:
Assuming they got elected, then obviously they've got it under control enough to be effective.
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If someone has their PTSD under control, that's fine with me. That's a sign of having good mental health. But my point is, the Capes in Worm? They did NOT at all come off like they had good mental health, and I would have zero confidence in any of them in real positions of power.
 
Polokun said:
Dude. Fuck you. I am not biased or hateful towards people with PTSD.

Second,I am talking about what's better for the people of a country or organization of a whole. And it is NOT a bad thing to ask at least that the person in charge is mentally healthy. What's more important, that one person can have a position of power, or the safety of stability of hundreds or even millions of people to ask for at least mental competency in people?
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And why are you assuming that under no circumstances people with PTSD can be mentally competent? I mean, you wanted to make it a *policy* that they aren't allowed to hold power. As in "Nobody with PTSD can hold power. Period."

Plenty of people have PTSD and manage to cope just fine and be active and productive citizens who I'd be just fine electing or allowing to hold positions of power over others.
 
fallendruid said:
Gender Dysphoria is a component of schizophrenia, which is a serious mental illness that would adversely affect job performance in any position.
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I just went and checked on what this is, having never heard of it before, and became pretty upset.

I have trans family members and trans friends, and I wouldn't classify them as fucking schizophrenic just because they do not feel they were born in the correct body.

Not saying you support that definition. Glad you pointed out some bullshit to me though.
 
Polokun said:
If someone has their PTSD under control, that's fine with me. That's a sign of having good mental health. But my point is, the Capes in Worm? They did NOT at all come off like they had good mental health, and I would have zero confidence in any of them in real positions of power.
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All Capes, everywhere? There are several examples of Capes that are mentally competent and not insane. Some of them of course are bad people and would be bad rulers, but not because of any sanity issues. Tattletale is mentally competent, for instance, even if I wouldn't vote for her to be president for a myriad number of reasons. But she's not mentally ill.
 
The Laurent said:
All Capes, everywhere? There are several examples of Capes that are mentally competent and not insane. Some of them of course are bad people and would be bad rulers, but not because of any sanity issues. Tattletale is mentally competent, for instance, even if I wouldn't vote for her to be president for a myriad number of reasons. But she's not mentally ill.
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Some more mentally stable capes:

Armsmaster/Defiant (for the most part, no matter how fanon paints him)
Dragon
Miss Militia (despite being a child soldier!)
The majority of the Wards (minus Shadow Stalker)
Weld
Gregor the Snail (and he's a fucking snail, man)
Faultline
Most of the Travelers (except for Krouse, who suffers from the mental disorder of being an asshole)
Many Many More

Actually, listing capes who are definitively mentally unhealthy would be easier.
 
The Laurent said:
And why are you assuming that under no circumstances people with PTSD can be mentally competent? I mean, you wanted to make it a *policy* that they aren't allowed to hold power. As in "Nobody with PTSD can hold power. Period."

Plenty of people have PTSD and manage to cope just fine and be active and productive citizens who I'd be just fine electing or allowing to hold positions of power over others.
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Did you even read anything what I actually wrote? I said I wanted people who had sufficient mental health. Obviously someone who suffers from quote "severe" PTSD, as in someone who has their symptoms out of control to affect their judgement doesn't sit right with me. Seriously, there's a big difference between someone who's had counseling and maybe even medication to overcome their problems, and someone who's seriously emotionally disturbed.
 
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Thrice.Great said:
I just went and checked on what this is, having never heard of it before, and became pretty upset.

I have trans family members and trans friends, and I wouldn't classify them as fucking schizophrenic just because they do not feel they were born in the correct body.

Not saying you support that definition. Glad you pointed out some bullshit to me though.
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IIRC, gender dysphoria was moved to its own little section of the DSM on mental illnesses. People who are schizophrenic may display gender dysphoria, but gender dysphoria by itself is no longer enough to qualify as a diagnosis of schizophrenia.
 
Just because a person is a bad person doesn't make them mentally ill. There are far fewer mentally ill capes than you'd think, though far more 'asshole capes' than there should be. Like Thrice.Great's list, to start with. That doesn't mean that all of them on the list should be given positions of authority, but the idea that there are mental problems that automatically make all superpowered people unfit and insane is just wrong.
 
The Laurent said:
Just because a person is a bad person doesn't make them mentally ill. There are far fewer mentally ill capes than you'd think, though far more 'asshole capes' than there should be. Like Thrice.Great's list, to start with. That doesn't mean that all of them on the list should be given positions of authority, but the idea that there are mental problems that automatically make all superpowered people unfit and insane is just wrong.
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When did I say Mentally Unhealthy = Insane?
 
The Laurent said:
Just because a person is a bad person doesn't make them mentally ill. There are far fewer mentally ill capes than you'd think, though far more 'asshole capes' than there should be. Like Thrice.Great's list, to start with. That doesn't mean that all of them on the list should be given positions of authority, but the idea that there are mental problems that automatically make all superpowered people unfit and insane is just wrong.
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Actually had trouble thinking of the legitimately mentally ill/disabled capes:

Nilbog (Schizoid Personality Disorder?)
Labyrinth (Profound Autism?)
Shadow Stalker (maybe PTSD maybe Borderline Personality Disorder)
Jack Slash (Sociopathy/Megalomania)
Actually all of the S9 (Wide range including: Stockholme Syndrome, Algolagnia, Depersonalization Disorder, etc)
Glastig Uaine (is a Faerie Queen)
 
Thrice.Great said:
Actually had trouble thinking of the legitimately mentally ill capes:

Nilbog (Schizoid Personality Disorder?)
Labyrinth (Profound Autism?)
Shadow Stalker (maybe PTSD maybe Borderline Personality Disorder)
Jack Slash (Sociopathy/Megalomania)
Actually all of the S9 (Wide range including: Stockholme Syndrome, Algolagnia, Depersonalization Disorder, etc)
Glastig Uaine (is a Faerie Queen)
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Accord has almost stereotypical Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder. Like, the most 'TV' version of it since Monk.
 
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  • Staff Post
    • pheonix89 said:
    dump ANOTHER mag into Jack, reload again, and then dump a mag into you, because anyone trying to protect an S9 member is either another member, a S9 fan, or a wannabe member, and their lives are just as forfeit as Jack's are.
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    alert While answering the hypothetical is fine, this sort of thing is frowned upon, especially when referring to another poster on the site.
     
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