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White Wolf's World of Darkness

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Renu said:
I mean... "The Black Hearts: found family made up of those who broke away from their original family's feeding restrictions. They eat emotions"

Furies are the daughter of Nyx (or the blood of Ouranos spilled on the earth) iirc, so Outsiders would fit more than Dead, since even though they work in Tartarus they aren't dead themselves.

As for the Abrahamic stuff, they literally have Judas and the Nephilim (I'll give a freepass for Angels, given we could just consider it generic divine servants).
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To iterate a bit the dead have way more going on than just eating emotions and even then I would argue that they just eating emotions is different than what the dead do in that they eat a single emotion.

As for the Furies, they have a connection and are more associated with the underworld than they are with outsiders' connection with Nyx and even then I don't see that as outsider material with the closest thing that makes them outsiders being that they tend to descent up to earth to punish the wicked in mythology

Nehpihilim at least from the description given is just a name seeing as it doesn't give any connection to their namesake unless we get more info.

As for Iscariot their claim to be descendants is an important bit as the claim part though if the book goes on more on Abrahamic religion were probably going to have to see but that is currently the only thing that comes close to it unless you count the names.

Edit: Also the reason why I am fine with the Iscariot bit is quite simply the Lancea Sanctum back in Cofd made that claim and similar to Iscariot that claim is teneous until we get more info in my mind at least.
 
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Konradleijon said:
yes some Doves are bad but many others are sympathetic people who have been hurt by ghouls.

if Toyko Ghoul was like Beast then all doves would be sociopaths who hunt the innocent ghouls for no reason
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If I'm honest, my main takeaway from trying to watch Tokyo Ghoul was that
the Ghouls are better off extinct. They either spend their lives terrified and in hiding, or they fully embrace their nature as cannibalistic mutants. The fact that the most populous, well-organized Ghoul faction could be easily mistaken for a high-society cult of Slaanesh only deepens the sense of Ghouls being pretty much damned by the circumstances of their birth.

Integration would be, at best, a nightmare, since you'd damn near need a supernatural god-tyrant a la the Emperor of Mankind to enforce it on both sides of the conflict at possibly-metaphorical gunpoint. Even then, you'd have to maintain some kind of quasi-eugenicist population control program to ensure that the number of Ghouls never exceeds the food supply that the passive death rate of the rest of humanity can provide - and that theoretical still involves tearing up most funerary customs of most cultures, since now the bodies of the dead have to be carefully collected and processed into food for Ghouls instead of buried, cremated, etc, etc, so we've come back around to requiring space aliens or gods or something to descend from the skies and institute a global totalitarian panopticon to make this happen.
 
Renu said:
Also, Beast has made me wary of anything with "Will often try to use their powers to teach valuable lessons" wrt monsters...
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Well, I won't be surprised if it turns out that Curseborn lore is based on what little notes for Beast 2e onyx path made before being killed by the controversy with the author.

Not to mention the emphasis on family in the release material...
 
GardenerBriareus said:
Integration would be, at best, a nightmare, since you'd damn near need a supernatural god-tyrant a la the Emperor of Mankind to enforce it on both sides of the conflict at possibly-metaphorical gunpoint. Even then, you'd have to maintain some kind of quasi-eugenicist population control program to ensure that the number of Ghouls never exceeds the food supply that the passive death rate of the rest of humanity can provide - and that theoretical still involves tearing up most funerary customs of most cultures, since now the bodies of the dead have to be carefully collected and processed into food for Ghouls instead of buried, cremated, etc, etc, so we've come back around to requiring space aliens or gods or something to descend from the skies and institute a global totalitarian panopticon to make this happen.
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it's worth noting many cultures did practice acts of funerary cannibalism. where kinship members ate the dead in a form of remembrance
 
GAWR said:
Well, I won't be surprised if it turns out that Curseborn lore is based on what little notes for Beast 2e onyx path made before being killed by the controversy with the author.

Not to mention the emphasis on family in the release material...
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I mean the ashcan is out and we already have plenty of info in regards to curseborn that and the whole announcement panel is happening today.

Also I do wanna note that with the exception of Rose who wrote the setting bible most of the people on the project never really did cofd with exception of maybe Mathew though Mathew works on nearly everything in regards to onyxpath.

Regardless though I don't even recall a 2e beast thing was being in the works save one or two freelance writers just desiring to do it and even then they knew like al cofd products they try to pitch it wouldn't get approved seeing as Paradox just stopped approving anything cofd related unless you have more info somewhere?
 
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GardenerBriareus said:
Well, no. The issue is that they're half human and half angel, which seems pretty firmly within the Outcast bailiwick.
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Nitpicking, but Nephilim have always been on earth, it's angels who went to earth to fuck with humans and then the Nephilim were born. Thus, they never were outside of earth.

Granted, it seems that it's just a cool word used randomly, like Gaki etc. The whole "but it's not thaaaaat" is probably just me being annoyed at random stuff.
 
Rose Bailey worked on the bible setting and is currently just hanging out in the onxypath discords cruseborn channel last I checked.

Beyond that most of the writers who are talking about it are exalted essence writers, Scion writers and trinity writers with a couple having done at the gates.

Beyond that curseborn does site changelings and vampires as inspiration but it isn't beholden to anything that wod/cofd has or did.
 
Konradleijon said:
it's worth noting many cultures did practice acts of funerary cannibalism. where kinship members ate the dead in a form of remembrance
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Well, yes, but that's not really germane?

For one thing, the Ghouls are obligate anthropovores, not people participating in a societal/religious ceremony. Bringing up RL practices from history aren't very relevant here.

Ghouls need a steady influx of corpse-flesh to avoid starvation, and even if they can seemingly get by on very little, once you scale things up to the level of global civilization you're going to need to maximize the number of dead humans being rendered down into nutrient bars to make sure that Ghouls don't go hungry and get tempted to RETVRN to the old ways of active predation.

In fact, you'd probably have to end any such practices like the one you mentioned, because the last thing you need is baseline humans literally eating into the Ghouls' supply of ethical food.

This is where, once again, the whole idea kind of spirals back down into 'you'd need some kind of almighty dictator who forcibly reorganizes the whole of all human societies in order to create lasting peace between Ghouls and baselines.'


Renu said:
Nitpicking, but Nephilim have always been on earth, it's angels who went to earth to fuck with humans and then the Nephilim were born. Thus, they never were outside of earth.
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I may have misread the description for Outcasts, in that case. I thought it included people who have pronounced ancestry from beings outside of the mortal realm, which the mythological Nephilim would qualify as.
 
GardenerBriareus said:
I may have misread the description for Outcasts, in that case. I thought it included people who have pronounced ancestry from beings outside of the mortal realm, which the mythological Nephilim would qualify as.
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They all are - their Damnation makes them perfect hybrids of themselves and whatever Outsider was initially banished to Earth to found their lineage, no matter how distant. So angelbloods, cambions, part fae, eldritch herald, cursed wizard who was given exactly what they asked for when they tried to steal godhood...

The Nephilim are an extended Family (a loose social organization of Accursed; the Nephilim are actually a clan related by intermarriage and adoptions, but the League of Hidden Crossroads is an Outcast mafia) that specializes in mapmaking and native guidance of Battlegrounds, places where an Outside (an otherworld) has buried itself in as a planar pocket, and other Liminalities (places and things that have developed supernatural traits outside Accursed).
 
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[ I think the issue with how Heros are portrayed in Beast: the Primordial is how pathetic they are.



I am late to the Beast: the primordial train by like five years. but I have thought about it and it's portrayal of Heros and the main issue with them is that they are pathetic.
McFarland compared Heroes to Gaston. but in Beauty and the Beast Gaston isn't this lonely incel at the fringes of society but the big man in his town that everyone loves/
his popularity with the town is why he can rally them to form a mob to kill the Beast.
compare that with Heroes. in the Hunter source-book all the Hunter orgs see Heroes as insane manics who are too into killing the nightmare abominations that cause mass physiological damage.
Heroes are also pathetic. they can cause specific weaknesses and Beasts and can be trained.
but they have no counters to anything that is not a Beast. heck someone can just call the police on a Hero
 
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Konradleijon said:
McFarland compared Heroes to Gaston. but in Beauty and the Beast Gaston isn't this lonely incel at the fringes of society but the big man in his town that everyone loves/
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Honestly I think Captain Ahab from Limbus company would better example for a hero than gaston.

Like the canto that featured her make it quite clear that Ahab has an uncanny ability to gather followers while conversely welling to throw they lives away at the drop of a hat while defecting blame to others.
 
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GAWR said:
Honestly I think Captain Ahab from Limbus company would better example for a hero than Gaston.

Like the canto that featured her make it quite clear that Ahab has an uncanny ability to gather followers while conversely welling to throw they lives away at the drop of a hat while defecting blame to others.
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need to get into the Moonverse.

but yes. Heroes are pathetic and blamed for hunting Beasts when they have no choice
 
Konradleijon said:
need to get into the Moonverse.

but yes. Heroes are pathetic and blamed for hunting Beasts when they have no choice
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I wouldn't call Ahab pathetic. From what little I've seen of her she's plenty compatant as a fighter and can match 6 superpowered combatants going after her and that's not taking her personal E.G.O into account.

It's just that she's really obsessed with taking down her whale to the point that she gladly use own life as payment to buy Ismael temporary loyalty (who at the time is ready to harpoon her in the heart) so she has the chance to kill the whale.
 
GAWR said:
I wouldn't call Ahab pathetic. From what little I've seen of her she's plenty combatant as a fighter and can match 6 superpowered combatants going after her and that's not taking her personal E.G.O into account.

It's just that she's really obsessed with taking down her whale to the point that she gladly uses own life as payment to buy Ismael temporary loyalty (who at the time is ready to harpoon her in the heart) so she has the chance to kill the whale.
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yes. I'm intrigued by Beast. I like most of the non-Hero stuff. but the Hero stuff weighs it all down. the way they are demonized for no fault of their own. with Beasts having the moral high ground because
 
Konradleijon said:
yes. I'm intrigued by Beast. I like most of the non-Hero stuff. but the Hero stuff weighs it all down. the way they are demonized for no fault of their own. with Beasts having the moral high ground because
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I feel much the same way about Beast and greatly enjoy this homebrew expansion as it resolves the more icky issues of the Beasts being the "Good Guys" because of their word of god mandate to teach humanity through fear and trauma. The addition of this Justification system adds more nuance by removing the word of god that the Beasts are right in defining themselves as teachers and providing additional options for players who want a different motivation for their Beast character. It brings in a lot more of the whole "Monsters we are lest Monsters we become" theme from Vampire: The Masquerade through a greater emphasis on how the Beasts handle their need to perform horrible acts to feed a monstrous hunger and how they justify living as a Beast to themselves.

 
GardenerBriareus said:
If I'm honest, my main takeaway from trying to watch Tokyo Ghoul was that
the Ghouls are better off extinct. They either spend their lives terrified and in hiding, or they fully embrace their nature as cannibalistic mutants. The fact that the most populous, well-organized Ghoul faction could be easily mistaken for a high-society cult of Slaanesh only deepens the sense of Ghouls being pretty much damned by the circumstances of their birth.

Integration would be, at best, a nightmare, since you'd damn near need a supernatural god-tyrant a la the Emperor of Mankind to enforce it on both sides of the conflict at possibly-metaphorical gunpoint. Even then, you'd have to maintain some kind of quasi-eugenicist population control program to ensure that the number of Ghouls never exceeds the food supply that the passive death rate of the rest of humanity can provide - and that theoretical still involves tearing up most funerary customs of most cultures, since now the bodies of the dead have to be carefully collected and processed into food for Ghouls instead of buried, cremated, etc, etc, so we've come back around to requiring space aliens or gods or something to descend from the skies and institute a global totalitarian panopticon to make this happen.
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I have to imagine the ghouls strenuously disagree that they're better off dead because of how inconvenient it would be if they existed with us.
 
I want more COfD content fuck IP and copyright law. my idea for cooperate owned copyright is thirty years and then it is sent into compulsively licensing.

where anyone can use the text if they pay royalties to the actual creators.

in exchange for monetary making something possible companies should have a limited economic exclusive right to it. thirty years is when almost any work will make a profit
 
Konradleijon said:
I want more COfD content fuck IP and copyright law. my idea for cooperate owned copyright is thirty years and then it is sent into compulsively licensing.

where anyone can use the text if they pay royalties to the actual creators.

in exchange for monetary making something possible companies should have a limited economic exclusive right to it. thirty years is when almost any work will make a profit
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Do you mean official content?


Various major unofficial sources you may or may not be aware of:

None More Dark Publishing's work(Changeling and Vampire)

Dave Brookshaw(Mage Lead IIRC) and others Seers 2e project

the Deviant The Renegades players guide(Shallow Graves) by Eric Zawadski(DTR lead IIRC) going on the vault soon.

Acrozatarim has homebrew. He was one of the major writers for Forsaken and most of his homebrew is in that direction. Though he has come up with stuff like other immortals for Mummy. Some of it's publicly posted on the Onyx path forums, the rest you'd need to subscribe to him on patreon for.
 
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