Remove ads

White Wolf's World of Darkness

Reader mode
Yeah, on a more serious note, I like the Coils as presented in 2e, because they seem to be useful tools that it makes sense that they'd be powerful and a reason why the Ordo holds their own, without breaking everything in half, and also making sense to the sort of thematic aesthetic the game is playing to.

For instance, that person with the first two Coils of the Ascendant never sleeps. Or doesn't have to. When other men sit down and laugh and joke and play, they scheme.

It's the mob boss that stays up late at night (or in this case during the day) plotting the death of his enemies. It's the workaholic on a power trip amassing money and power to try to unseat the Prince, working harder and not smarter. It's the mad scientist or obsessed scholar for whom immorality is an excuse to chase after their bugbears forever, like a dog chasing a car.

And the third and fourth Coil of the Ascendant could actually make a pretty good tool for the story of why a Prince is so terrifying, since someone who doesn't Frenzy at fire and takes less damage for it is someone who can burn his enemies alive laughing madly and if the fire gets on him...well, he can stand it far better than they can.

And then word on the street is the Prince is a bad dude. A psycho. He once burned an entire Coterie alive and walked out of the flames without even fucking flinching.

And then of course some Daeva kills him when he least expects it or his own lieutenants betray him or whatever else because this *is* a crime story.

But it facilitates psychopaths and schemers and mob bosses and obsessive madmen in a way that I think is good and really works. It's powerful (definitely so) without being so great that you couldn't imagine an group of PCs finding a way to take down a vampire who has even all five of the Coils of the Ascendant.[1]

[1] Partially because absolutely none of them actually help you in a straight fight. They're all utility stuff. And it doesn't matter if you have 24 hours a day to plan if you make mistakes or underestimate your enemies or etc.

*****
I could probably do an analysis for the other two coils, but for certain reasons I've been focusing on that one.

Mostly because of the three Taylor is most interested in that one in the fic I'm writing because she wrongly thinks that it's the 'Be more like a human' one and not the 'be a terrifying crime boss without weaknesses' one.

...she'll probably learn if she doesn't die?
 
Last edited:
The Laurent said:
Yeah, on a more serious note, I like the Coils as presented in 2e, because they seem to be useful tools that it makes sense that they'd be powerful and a reason why the Ordo holds their own, without breaking everything in half, and also making sense to the sort of thematic aesthetic the game is playing to.

For instance, that person with the first two Coils of the Ascendant never sleeps. Or doesn't have to. When other men sit down and laugh and joke and play, they scheme.

It's the mob boss that stays up late at night (or in this case during the day) plotting the death of his enemies. It's the workaholic on a power trip amassing money and power to try to unseat the Prince, working harder and not smarter. It's the mad scientist or obsessed scholar for whom immorality is an excuse to chase after their bugbears forever, like a dog chasing a car.

And the third and fourth Coil of the Ascendant could actually make a pretty good tool for the story of why a Prince is so terrifying, since someone who doesn't Frenzy at fire and takes less damage for it is someone who can burn his enemies alive laughing madly and if the fire gets on him...well, he can stand it far better than they can.

And then word on the street is the Prince is a bad dude. A psycho. He once burned an entire Coterie alive and walked out of the flames without even fucking flinching.

And then of course some Daeva kills him when he least expects it or his own lieutenants betray him or whatever else because this *is* a crime story.

But it facilitates psychopaths and schemers and mob bosses and obsessive madmen in a way that I think is good and really works. It's powerful (definitely so) without being so great that you couldn't imagine an group of PCs finding a way to take down a vampire who has even all five of the Coils of the Ascendant.[1]

[1] Partially because absolutely none of them actually help you in a straight fight. They're all utility stuff. And it doesn't matter if you have 24 hours a day to plan if you make mistakes or underestimate your enemies or etc.

*****
I could probably do an analysis for the other two coils, but for certain reasons I've been focusing on that one.

Mostly because of the three Taylor is most interested in that one in the fic I'm writing because she wrongly thinks that it's the 'Be more like a human' one and not the 'be a terrifying crime boss without weaknesses' one.

...she'll probably learn if she doesn't die?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
The Coil of the Wyrm does help in a stand-up fight and indeed wrecks unholy face, provided you're willing to Frenzy.
 
Omicron said:
The Coil of the Wyrm does help in a stand-up fight and indeed wrecks unholy face, provided you're willing to Frenzy.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Oh, I think I knew that, but I was just talking about the one coil it'd mentally torn apart and looked at, and even still, because of how Coils and such work, I wouldn't put many people as having a wide spread of that, even powerful Ordo people, so the one who wrecks face and Frenzies, well...

There's a reason that if you go around shooting at people and being a gang-banger, you're bound to get deep-sixed sometime.
 
The Laurent said:
Oh, I think I knew that, but I was just talking about the one coil it'd mentally torn apart and looked at, and even still, because of how Coils and such work, I wouldn't put many people as having a wide spread of that, even powerful Ordo people, so the one who wrecks face and Frenzies, well...

There's a reason that if you go around shooting at people and being a gang-banger, you're bound to get deep-sixed sometime.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Very true. And besides even at face -wrecking it's not quite as good as Vigor - but then what is? It's something you want as a complementary power to enhance your murderness, rather than as the core of it.
 
Omicron said:
Very true. And besides even at face -wrecking it's not quite as good as Vigor - but then what is? It's something you want as a complementary power to enhance your murderness, rather than as the core of it.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Also important to note is the thematics. Someone who has mastered the Coils of the Ascendant is, yes, someone who spent the XP on it. But the described experiments involve things like standing in the sun, burning yourself with fire, extreme cases of sleep deprivation, etc, etc. Masters of Ascendancy are people who have tortured and pushed themselves to be better than anyone else.

So I figure that people who Master Coil of the Wyrm are people who Frenzy a lot. Sure, they get more control over it and etc, etc, but they're mad dogs. Nobody wants to sit next to them, and a Ventrue who pretends to be a 'legitimate businessman' one of the old-time gangster-like guys would think them practically savages.

They don't sit in rooms and plan, they go out and do. They murder their rivals and paint their blood on the walls in savage fury.

They're a different sort of criminal stereotype, one that's likely to eventually be put down just like a mad dog is, and yet is doing it knowingly, is working towards making themselves into this...thing. It's not a lack of control (a Wyrm Master doesn't have to be a rage-a-holic), it's a willingness to lose control and become the Beast, after all.

They're, how would you say it, Superpredators. :V

Edit: And then Voivode is straight up crime-family shit. You win and obtain loyalty, you have a huge brood of 'sons' plotting your downfall, etc, etc...
 
Last edited:
The Laurent said:
Also important to note is the thematics. Someone who has mastered the Coils of the Ascendant is, yes, someone who spent the XP on it. But the described experiments involve things like standing in the sun, burning yourself with fire, extreme cases of sleep deprivation, etc, etc. Masters of Ascendancy are people who have tortured and pushed themselves to be better than anyone else.

So I figure that people who Master Coil of the Wyrm are people who Frenzy a lot. Sure, they get more control over it and etc, etc, but they're mad dogs. Nobody wants to sit next to them, and a Ventrue who pretends to be a 'legitimate businessman' one of the old-time gangster-like guys would think them practically savages.

They don't sit in rooms and plan, they go out and do. They murder their rivals and paint their blood on the walls in savage fury.

They're a different sort of criminal stereotype, one that's likely to eventually be put down just like a mad dog is, and yet is doing it knowingly, is working towards making themselves into this...thing. It's not a lack of control (a Wyrm Master doesn't have to be a rage-a-holic), it's a willingness to lose control and become the Beast, after all.

They're, how would you say it, Superpredators. :V
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I think Netflix's Wilson Fisk is a good example there. He's a stereotypical Ventrue Invictus, a businessman-criminal with refined tastes and loyal henchmen, but push the wrong button and he will cave your face in with a car door. Then he will wipe his hands and organize the clean-up. His rage is destructive but it has a razor-sharp focus and he knows when and how to give in so he can still maintain appearances.
 
EarthScorpion said:
Well, that's just a question of competitive advantage there. A vampire accountant has considerably less advantage over a mortal accountant [1] (and may actually be at a disadvantage), while a vampire leg-breaker has a much larger advantage over a mortal.

Therefore in a rational economic society you will see vampires becoming leg-breakers and mortals becoming accountants (and then becoming ghouled).

Hmm. I wonder if you could make an accountant numerological Shadow Cult with a bullshit text about the mystical power of accountancy, which lets them get their own Accountmancy discipline.

[1] We will now see someone pull out an accountant Bloodline from some obscure book I haven't even seen, with an accountancy-based discipline.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Numb3rs

* Counting: With this power a vampire can instantly count all the jellybeans in a jar, or all the grains of sand on a beach. It requires no action, merely that the vampire be able to see the group of objects that she is counting. This power also allows a vampire to keep track of very large numbers and makes it impossible for one to ever forget a number. With it, a vampire could easily count cards in a five-deck blackjack shoe.

EarthScorpion said:
And how many vampires chose to be vampires?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

All the ones whose sires don't want to be murdered by their own childer, I suspect.
 
hyzmarca said:
Numb3rs

* Counting: With this power a vampire can instantly count all the jellybeans in a jar, or all the grains of sand on a beach. It requires no action, merely that the vampire be able to see the group of objects that she is counting. This power also allows a vampire to keep track of very large numbers and makes it impossible for one to ever forget a number. With it, a vampire could easily count cards in a five-deck blackjack shoe.



All the ones whose sires don't want to be murdered by their own childer, I suspect.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Actually no, not really?

Like, I disagree with that assessment. Besides the fact that even voluntary vampirism is probably called "Being sold a bill of goods."

'I love you, wouldn't you like to be together forever?'

'Of course.'

*Turned into a vampire and fuck it turns out it sucks.*
 
The Laurent said:
Actually no, not really?

Like, I disagree with that assessment. Besides the fact that even voluntary vampirism is probably called "Being sold a bill of goods."

'I love you, wouldn't you like to be together forever?'

'Of course.'

*Turned into a vampire and fuck it turns out it sucks.*
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Does it suck, really? I mean, there's the sunlight thing, but other than that, nothing but benefits.
 
hyzmarca said:
Does it suck, really? I mean, there's the sunlight thing, but other than that, nothing but benefits.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

...yes, it does suck.

Sunlight, fire, the whole 'You have to drink blood to survive' thing, the fact that you're slowly tearing away from your humanity, the powers that you have, many of which are the exact kind of powers to tempt you into being a disgusting or abhuman monster, and you're part of a bloodthirsty, horrific society that, on average, will chew you up and spit you out.

Most neonates don't live to be Ancilla, after all. It's a pyramid scheme.

Literally every aspect including waking up is designed to be horrible and painful and yet is also balanced by other aspects that make it really hard for you to even kill yourself.[1]

[1] Vampiric health and frenzy mean that a suicide attempt can't be (as most real life attempts are) a matter of a sudden impulse and a desperate half-planned gesture. You have to make sure there's no chance you'll survive or you'll murder people while you're at it.

Oh, and that's another thing. The Frenzy where you can murder people if you get too scared or angry.
 
Last edited:
The Laurent said:
...yes, it does suck.

Sunlight,
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Annoying, I admit.

fire,
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Yes, of course, completely unlike normal humans, whose skin is composed of a natural asbestos compound, you can be burned by fire. A terrible inconvenience, that.

the whole 'You have to drink blood to survive' thing,
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
It's more filling than a slimfast, but has less calories.

the fact that you're slowly tearing away from your humanity, the powers that you have, many of which are the exact kind of powers to tempt you into being a disgusting or abhuman monster,
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Awesome feature, not a bug.

and you're part of a bloodthirsty, horrific society that, on average, will chew you up and spit you out.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Drop out of society, use the internet.

Most neonates don't live to be Ancilla, after all. It's a pyramid scheme.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
And most humans don't live to be Ancilla, either. You might not last more than a century, how terrible.


Oh, and that's another thing. The Frenzy where you can murder people if you get too scared or angry.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
An awesome feature.
 
Last edited:
The Laurent said:
[1] Vampiric health and frenzy mean that a suicide attempt can't be (as most real life attempts are) a matter of a sudden impulse and a desperate half-planned gesture. You have to make sure there's no chance you'll survive or you'll murder people while you're at it.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Nah, it can be done as an impulse thing. It just requires somewhere a long way from shade. That, or a tank of petrol and a match.

Basically, you just need to get in a situation where even fear frenzying won't help you survive - hence, "in the sun far enough away from shade", or "shit I'm already doused in burning petrol".
 
hyzmarca said:
Annoying, I admit.


Yes, of course, completely unlike normal humans, whose skin is composed of a natural asbestos compound, you can be burned by fire. A terrible inconvenience, that.


It's more filling than a slimfast, but has less calories.


Awesome feature, not a bug.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Drop out of society, use the internet.


And most humans don't like to be Ancilla, either. You might not last more than a century, how terrible.



An awesome feature.[/QUOTE]

Are you an actual person?

Like, you think 'murdering your friends in a rage' is an awesome feature?

Also, Ancilla is 50 years, not 100 (I think? Either way, I was talking about fifty years). I'm saying that most vampires die before the time that they would have died in real life, often way before their time. (Unless they're, like, already old when they're Embraced, which can certainly happen, of course.)

EarthScorpion said:
Nah, it can be done as an impulse thing. It just requires somewhere a long way from shade. That, or a tank of petrol and a match.

Basically, you just need to get in a situation where even fear frenzying won't help you survive - hence, "in the sun far enough away from shade", or "shit I'm already doused in burning petrol".
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Sure, I'm just saying that it at least takes some thought to set up. You can't just go, "I'll walk out into the sun and die and that's that." Unlike some other variations of vampires.
 
Last edited:
hyzmarca said:
Annoying, I admit.


Yes, of course, completely unlike normal humans, whose skin is composed of a natural asbestos compound, you can be burned by fire. A terrible inconvenience, that.


It's more filling than a slimfast, but has less calories.


Awesome feature, not a bug.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Drop out of society, use the internet.


And most humans don't like to be Ancilla, either. You might not last more than a century, how terrible.



An awesome feature.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, if you're a sociopath who doesn't care about hurting or killing people, vampirism is awesome.
 
EarthScorpion said:
Nope!

Because if you're a sociopath who doesn't care about hurting or killing people, you're Morality 0-1.

And that means lol draugr either immediately, or one frenzy away. And either way, that means you're not going to be you.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Heh, I doubt it. Embracing Hannival Lecter shouldn't turn him into a mindless beast, that should be something that happens progressively as he doesn't realize that something in him is being eroded away and he gets more and more hungry and angry all the time.
 
Yeah, I'm pretty sure @hyzmarca is trolling at this point. Because he's saying such stupid things that requires one to ignore the themes, the mechanics, and how the two interrelate that he's just trying to get a rise out of people. That, or he doesn't want to talk about either Vampire: the Requiem or Vampire: the Masquerade, both of which have had the same "A beast I am 'lest a beast I become" themes and mechanics.

So let's stop feeding the troll and go back to something more productive.

Omicron said:
Heh, I doubt it. Embracing Hannival Lecter shouldn't turn him into a mindless beast, that should be something that happens progressively as he doesn't realize that something in him is being eroded away and he gets more and more hungry and angry all the time.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Morality converts directly to Humanity. Hannibal is Morality 0, because he sees no problem with gross atrocities.

Now, yes, Hannibal Lecter probably becomes a "cunning predator" type Draugr, so... uh, people might not notice for far too long. Because that's the scary thing about cunning predators - they can pass as a vampire who's losing it, rather than one who's lost it entirely.

But Hannibal is not a playable character, either way.

(Anyway, he's a Slasher)
 
Last edited:
Speaking of Hannibal Lector.

A type of vampire that could be interesting that I thought of is an ex-Ordo, Silence of the Lambs/Serial-Killer movies style psychopath.

Obsessed with capturing vampires and performing evil experiments on them, and what is his weapon?

Fire. He's at four Coils of the Ascendant, and he is fascinated by fire, was even when he was terrified beyond belief of it. So pretty, so horrifying, the very death of vampires, and he loves it so. He'd burn himself just to feel the agony and think on what it meant. In other words, someone who long-term is going to become a Draugr, but is barely managing to hold it in by not killing that many humans (only if they get in the way) and pretending on the outside not to be a serial killer.

And so he rolls into town and suddenly the careful crime-story game turns into a 'Holy fuck a serial killer is burning everyone alive and leaving cryptic messages.'

Maybe add in some 'Serial Killer among us' vibes to it.
 
EarthScorpion said:
So let's stop feeding the troll and go back to something more productive.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Like flaming the Exalted thread?

Anyways, I don't really feel how anyone could see existence as any of the supernatural creatures as nice.

I mean, even Mages are raving lunatics obsessed with mysteries by the standards of normal people, and I'm not even going to bother with Ascension mages who might have it even worse, depending on who you ask.
 
ManusDomine said:
Like flaming the Exalted thread?

Anyways, I don't really feel how anyone could see existence as any of the supernatural creatures as nice.

I mean, even Mages are raving lunatics obsessed with mysteries by the standards of normal people, and I'm not even going to bother with Ascension mages who might have it even worse, depending on who you ask.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Time to play Devil's Advocate;

OWOD

Vampire: Immortality/Eternal (whatever age you were) and you get to dick around for a long ass time doing whatever you please.

Werewolf: Got nothing

Mage: you can play with reality like a ball of yarn, and in early editions you can create your own magical realms in the astral.

Changeling: You get to see trippy shit and party with fairies.

Mummy: IMMORTALITY AND HEROISM!

Wraith: Got nothing

Hunter: other then superpowers fuck all.

NWOD

Vampire: See OWOD

Werewolf: Border Patrol for the Spirits

Mage: Being a new mage is suffering

Changeling: Sure you had to be twisted and misshapen into a horrendous freakazoid but hey, you can now live longer and you get superpowers!

Sin-Eater: Second Chance at life and you're harder to kill

there are a lot fo upsides compared to down imo.
 
I'd sign up to be a Changeling in a heartbeat, it's the process of becoming one that I wouldn't take in a lifetime.
 
Last edited:
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top