Remove ads

What are controversial gaming opinions you have?

While I suspect that the weaker version of the following statement is not actually controversial, I do think that the extreme present here is actually unpopular: Hollow Knight is the best action-Metroidvania ever made and any attempts at making new mertoidvanias in this sub-genre should put a significantly diverging and unique spin on it, lest they want to be compared and found wanting.
By action-metroidvanias I mean metroidvanias which focus on combat more than platforming, and I do believe that this distinction is actually pretty relevant. (Although from platforming perspective Hollow Knight is also incredibly good, especially the tightly designed Path of Pain which reminds me of the best levels of Celeste.)
 
Hykal94 said:
The reason video game shooting takes place within a stone's throw is because engaging dudes at half a kilometer away doesn't get you the sexy killshots and death animations that devs put so much effort into.

Game devs are cowards for not using a magazine based gun system instead of the magic universal ammo thingamajiggy. Games should steal (a little bit) from milsims.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Hykal94 said:
There's a lot of reason why games don't keep track of magazines, but just once, I want to see a AAA game do it. With all the reloading and inventory management that comes from milsims.
Whether it be viable in the long run and be replicated I don't know, but I want to see it anyway and watch how the gaming community reacts to it. At the very least, it would be interesting.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

The Laurent said:
I think if you did it, it'd have to be a slower game. Not slow-paced or anything, but a game where holding down the trigger is already usually a mistake. So that you're already encouraged to take care with your ammo, and thus reloads are part of the mechanics. Every shot counts and all that.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

SWAT 4 did it, it works well, and for the exact reason that Laurent brings up. If you're holding down the trigger, something has gone horribly wrong.
 
Triggerhappy said:
It's the ultimate expression of the evolution of SV/SB dialogue.

Early SB : These guns and vehicles are SOOOO UNREALISTIC!1!1!1!1!1!!!!! No REAL werld Militry would ever use them!1!! ART STUDENTS FAIL! ENGINEERS RUULLEEE!

Modern SB/SV : Yes, these weapons and vehicles are not realistic! That is because a video game has very different criteria for successful vehicle and weapon design, including a distinctive profile readily identifiable at all angles from a distance and distinctive, often exaggerated, strengths and weaknesses to inform the player's strategy for and against.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
An evolution that I much prefer.

Also, I think there should be more muscular women in video games.
 
Oksbad said:
SWAT 4 did it, it works well, and for the exact reason that Laurent brings up. If you're holding down the trigger, something has gone horribly wrong.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I use full auto when I want to intimidate my opposition. Let the perps know a hail of bullets is coming down the door with possibly your name on it and watch as Fight or flight kicks in and they either draw their gun and get incapped or surrendering.
 
To go back to the Assault rifle talk, my unpopular opinion is that anything but a Destiny 2 AR meta is bullshit. All other primaries should have niche utility when compared to AR's. When you fire a rocket launcher, you expect it to shoot out a rocket and blow up. When you fire a Sniper rifle you expect high accuracy at extreme range. When you fire a shotgun you should expect extreme damage at short range.

When you fire an AR you should expect accuracy at medium to long ranges, high RoF, large magazine size and large damage potential.

Because it's a fucking assault rifle and that's what they do.


I cannot express my hatred for Handcannons. There are no curses in Elvish, Entish or the tongues of man for this treachery.
 
Alitur said:
While I suspect that the weaker version of the following statement is not actually controversial, I do think that the extreme present here is actually unpopular: Hollow Knight is the best action-Metroidvania ever made and any attempts at making new mertoidvanias in this sub-genre should put a significantly diverging and unique spin on it, lest they want to be compared and found wanting.
By action-metroidvanias I mean metroidvanias which focus on combat more than platforming, and I do believe that this distinction is actually pretty relevant. (Although from platforming perspective Hollow Knight is also incredibly good, especially the tightly designed Path of Pain which reminds me of the best levels of Celeste.)
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Most games that call themselves Metroidvanias are focused on combat. That said, that's not super controversial, the Metroid purists might disagree, but you haven't stated something that riles people up the same way something like "Fallout 4 is a strictly better game than New Vegas" would.

Speaking of Metroidvanias though: Symphony of the Night doesn't do anything well enough to hold it's crown as one of the "Ur-examples" of it's genre to deserve billing in the name of the genre. Not when Dark Souls does everything Symphony did to be unique better than it, in a way that better fit with the logic Metroid and Super Metroid established.
 
Ragnar said:
To go back to the Assault rifle talk, my unpopular opinion is that anything but a Destiny 2 AR meta is bullshit. All other primaries should have niche utility when compared to AR's. When you fire a rocket launcher, you expect it to shoot out a rocket and blow up. When you fire a Sniper rifle you expect high accuracy at extreme range. When you fire a shotgun you should expect extreme damage at short range.

When you fire an AR you should expect accuracy at medium to long ranges, high RoF, large magazine size and large damage potential.

Because it's a fucking assault rifle and that's what they do.


I cannot express my hatred for Handcannons. There are no curses in Elvish, Entish or the tongues of man for this treachery.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
sorry can't hear you over my ace

Shitposting aside, it's bad game design to make one weapon type objectively superior to every other weapon type in the name of "realism".
 
Zeful said:
Speaking of Metroidvanias though: Symphony of the Night doesn't do anything well enough to hold it's crown as one of the "Ur-examples" of it's genre to deserve billing in the name of the genre.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Symphony of the Night literally named the genre back in the 90s. Or at least, it's detractors did. Some guy said that there should be a distinction between older Castlevania games and the sort like SotN, with the older ones being Castlevanias and the newer ones being Metroidvanias. As like a "they're not real Castlevania games".
 
Alex said:
If I remember correctly this was basically valves logic when making team fortress 2. They wanted each of the classes to have a unique feel to their weapons and there to be a clear rock paper scissors dynamic to engagements so they consciously left out a bread and butter assault rifle.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
TF2 is also quite deliberately balanced towards close-range firefights; the few long-range options are limited by their mechanics (charge time for the Sniper, travel time for rockets/granades, arming AND travel time for stickys) and there's basically no hitscan weapon in the game that performs strongly at medium range.
 
Ragnar said:
To go back to the Assault rifle talk, my unpopular opinion is that anything but a Destiny 2 AR meta is bullshit. All other primaries should have niche utility when compared to AR's. When you fire a rocket launcher, you expect it to shoot out a rocket and blow up. When you fire a Sniper rifle you expect high accuracy at extreme range. When you fire a shotgun you should expect extreme damage at short range.

When you fire an AR you should expect accuracy at medium to long ranges, high RoF, large magazine size and large damage potential.

Because it's a fucking assault rifle and that's what they do.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Destiny guns are made with Space Magic. Why wouldn't you expect the foundries to Space Magic their non-AR guns into being more universally effective?
 
I think all Modern Fallout games are good. That means Fallout 3, 4 and NV. Fallout 1 and 2 are not bad games but I hate them because of quality of life stuff that it does not have. The only bad Fallout game is Brotherhood of Steel....

Fallout Tactics is good
 
Last edited:
Alitur said:
While I suspect that the weaker version of the following statement is not actually controversial, I do think that the extreme present here is actually unpopular: Hollow Knight is the best action-Metroidvania ever made and any attempts at making new mertoidvanias in this sub-genre should put a significantly diverging and unique spin on it, lest they want to be compared and found wanting.
By action-metroidvanias I mean metroidvanias which focus on combat more than platforming, and I do believe that this distinction is actually pretty relevant. (Although from platforming perspective Hollow Knight is also incredibly good, especially the tightly designed Path of Pain which reminds me of the best levels of Celeste.)
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

It's definitely one of the best, but for my money Cave Story (and Iji, assuming it's the right genre) are strong contenders for the title too.
 
Zeful said:
Speaking of Metroidvanias though: Symphony of the Night doesn't do anything well enough to hold it's crown as one of the "Ur-examples" of it's genre to deserve billing in the name of the genre. Not when Dark Souls does everything Symphony did to be unique better than it, in a way that better fit with the logic Metroid and Super Metroid established.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Do you know the difference between 1997 (Symphony of the Night), and 2009 (Demon Souls)?
 
Zeful said:
Speaking of Metroidvanias though: Symphony of the Night doesn't do anything well enough to hold it's crown as one of the "Ur-examples" of it's genre to deserve billing in the name of the genre. Not when Dark Souls does everything Symphony did to be unique better than it, in a way that better fit with the logic Metroid and Super Metroid established.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
It was one of the games that help to define the genre, so yes it does. There are other games now that can be considered better examples, yes, but people don't talk about SotN because is the "Ur-example" of metroidvanias, they mention it during conversation about the genre because it's one of its grandfathers.
 
Astaroh-M said:
It was one of the games that help to define the genre, so yes it does. There are other games now that can be considered better examples, yes, but people don't talk about SotN because is the "Ur-example" of metroidvanias, they mention it during conversation about the genre because it's one of its grandfathers.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
"Ur-example" means that it's the earliest example of something. Apparently comes from the German prefix Ur, meaning proto, or original.

I suppose SotN would be the Ur-example of Metroidvania gameplay existing in a game outside of the Metroid series.
 
Huttj said:
Do you know the difference between 1997 (Symphony of the Night), and 2009 (Demon Souls)?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Besides the decade of development, massively different world structure, and wrong game entirely? I really don't care. Yes technology and game design changed in the 12 years between those two games, but that doesn't mean that Symphony should be lauded for being a middling at best exploration game, while Dark Souls, with it's better world/level design and much more sensible mechanics for character progression and differentiation should be treated as wholly unreleated like it tends to be in these circles.

Like SotN tried to bring in more fantasy elements, as well as some "RPG elements" (and my opinion on that subject could be a separate take in this thread all on it's own), but ultimately failed to construct a game with the same kind of soul as Metroid or Super Metroid in my opinion, since the level of power obtained from gear and leveling encouraged taking longer routes through the castle. And honestly the level design itself was kind of shit. The way Metroid built rooms had a very organic feeling, with slopes and small jumps that could make otherwise simple enemies far more dangerous than their stats, while far too many rooms in an Igavania, are just large rectangles, with the same copypasted encounter 2-4 times. The clocktower is generally the only area of these game with halfway decent design, and most of that is just cribbed from Castlevania 1 and 3.
 
Zeful said:
Besides the decade of development, massively different world structure, and wrong game entirely? I really don't care. Yes technology and game design changed in the 12 years between those two games, but that doesn't mean that Symphony should be lauded for being a middling at best exploration game, while Dark Souls, with it's better world/level design and much more sensible mechanics for character progression and differentiation should be treated as wholly unreleated like it tends to be in these circles.

Like SotN tried to bring in more fantasy elements, as well as some "RPG elements" (and my opinion on that subject could be a separate take in this thread all on it's own), but ultimately failed to construct a game with the same kind of soul as Metroid or Super Metroid in my opinion, since the level of power obtained from gear and leveling encouraged taking longer routes through the castle. And honestly the level design itself was kind of shit. The way Metroid built rooms had a very organic feeling, with slopes and small jumps that could make otherwise simple enemies far more dangerous than their stats, while far too many rooms in an Igavania, are just large rectangles, with the same copypasted encounter 2-4 times. The clocktower is generally the only area of these game with halfway decent design, and most of that is just cribbed from Castlevania 1 and 3.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

This is as utterly daft as saying that Doom doesn't deserve to be lauded for being a middling FPS compared to Half Life which came out five years later.

You apparently don't understand the very, very simple concept that they're called Metroidvanias because Metroid and Castlevania codified a certain set of characteristics that made for an identifiably separate game genre. They could both have been absolutely and completely terrible piles of shit. It doesn't matter. They're the Adam and Eve. Despite the length of time between the first Metroid and SotN, when it became evident that they had made a new subgenre we wanted a name for, they were the primary examples since at that time the games industry wasn't a leviathan that shits out games and copies of other games at a rate of about a billion a year. The time between 'new subgenre defining game' and 'quadrillions of copies of that game' is almost nonexistent now (time between PUBG and copies...about 4 seconds) but wasn't necessarily so in the past.

Doom may hold up surprisingly well but it's a load of shit compared to Half Life only five years later; we were still calling everything a Doom clone regardless. Dark Souls eventually ended up creating a certain set of principles for Metroidvanias in 3D environments that it created an identifiable sub-genre everyone has been calling a Dark Souls clone ever since. It doesn't matter that Dark Souls itself is a pile of clunky horseshit compared to other examples of its new subgenre only a few years later.

What you're doing is functionally little different than complaining that Alexander Graham Bell is lauded for inventing the phone when his phone was kinda shit. It isn't a popularity/quality contest. It's just being the landmark.

Sorry, my first corgi dog Branwen, you are to no longer be lauded as my first corgi, because my second one is better. You should have tried harder. Get in the time machine, I need to make your secondness chronologically official.
 
OnlyCorgis said:
This is as utterly daft as saying that Doom doesn't deserve to be lauded for being a middling FPS compared to Half Life which came out five years later.

You apparently don't understand the very, very simple concept that they're called Metroidvanias because Metroid and Castlevania codified a certain set of characteristics that made for an identifiably separate game genre. They could both have been absolutely and completely terrible piles of shit. It doesn't matter. They're the Adam and Eve. Despite the length of time between the first Metroid and SotN, when it became evident that they had made a new subgenre we wanted a name for, they were the primary examples since at that time the games industry wasn't a leviathan that shits out games and copies of other games at a rate of about a billion a year. The time between 'new subgenre defining game' and 'quadrillions of copies of that game' is almost nonexistent now (time between PUBG and copies...about 4 seconds) but wasn't necessarily so in the past.

Doom may hold up surprisingly well but it's a load of shit compared to Half Life only five years later; we were still calling everything a Doom clone regardless. Dark Souls eventually ended up creating a certain set of principles for Metroidvanias in 3D environments that it created an identifiable sub-genre everyone has been calling a Dark Souls clone ever since. It doesn't matter that Dark Souls itself is a pile of clunky horseshit compared to other examples of its new subgenre only a few years later.

What you're doing is functionally little different than complaining that Alexander Graham Bell is lauded for inventing the phone when his phone was kinda shit. It isn't a popularity/quality contest. It's just being the landmark.

Sorry, my first corgi dog Branwen, you are to no longer be lauded as my first corgi, because my second one is better. You should have tried harder. Get in the time machine, I need to make your secondness chronologically official.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Gotta be honest, while I get the point you're going for about the forefathers naming the genres, I do find it hilarious that you go "Doom <<< Half-Life" and "Dark Souls 1 <<< The rest of the series", because personally I find the original Doom to be more fun with better replay value than Half Life ever achieved, and DS1 is probably my favorite of the Fromsoft souls genre, in close competition with Bloodborne.
 
McFluffles said:
Gotta be honest, while I get the point you're going for about the forefathers naming the genres, I do find it hilarious that you go "Doom <<< Half-Life" and "Dark Souls 1 <<< The rest of the series", because personally I find the original Doom to be more fun with better replay value than Half Life ever achieved, and DS1 is probably my favorite of the Fromsoft souls genre, in close competition with Bloodborne.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Yeah doom is like waaaaaaaaaaaay better than half life, no contest.

Doom is great even compared to the best shooters I have ever seen, half life is mediocre at best even 'for its time'. I guess that's (still) my controversial opinion of the day.
 
Zeful said:
Besides the decade of development, massively different world structure, and wrong game entirely? I really don't care. Yes technology and game design changed in the 12 years between those two games, but that doesn't mean that Symphony should be lauded for being a middling at best exploration game, while Dark Souls, with it's better world/level design and much more sensible mechanics for character progression and differentiation should be treated as wholly unreleated like it tends to be in these circles.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
See, what you're missing here is that Dark Souls likely would not have been the Dark Souls you know and love without Symphony of the Night codifying the exploration-based gameplay it became known for. Game design took the leaps it did because SotN happened, not independent of it. Games build on what came before, but that doesn't mean that what came before should be ignored or dismissed because it's worse. Of course the early examples of something are often going to be worse; people are still figuring that stuff out!
 
Cici said:
See, what you're missing here is that Dark Souls likely would not have been the Dark Souls you know and love without Symphony of the Night codifying the exploration-based gameplay it became known for. Game design took the leaps it did because SotN happened, not independent of it. Games build on what came before, but that doesn't mean that what came before should be ignored or dismissed because it's worse. Of course the early examples of something are often going to be worse; people are still figuring that stuff out!
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Yeah. It's a condemnation of the newer games, not a compliment of the older, when a series or genre goes down in quality instead of up.

Even if the development work on the older stuff is superior, the newer stuff after all can just directly lift a lot of What Worked with less need for guesswork, and dodge whatever things were bad.
 
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top