Comun on Beast Lair translated an interview by Makoto Sanda about the Case Files Christmas OVA:
Looking back at the Case Files of Lord El-Melloi II animations, from the first TV to this OVA, how do you feel? The anime always put more weight than the novels on the chain linking Waver to El-Melloi II, which just so happens to be what this OVA is entirely about, so watching it always gets me thinking about his journey. Like Melvin said in the story, his change and development are not something anyone could imagine from his starting point, and the question of where is he going next is one that keeps even me, his writer, excited.
You are currently writing The Adventures of Lord El-Melloi II. Did the Case Files adaptations and their reception effect or alter how you write it? In multimedia franchises, the professionals of a medium generally trust the professionals of another to know what they're doing, so I don't think much about what others will do when I'm writing. However, the voices in my head when I'm writing lines more major characters like Reines or Gray are now the anime voices (laughs). I also sometimes catch myself thinking "This would look so cool animated".
This OVA was Aozaki Touko's anime debut. Did you give any instructions or requests on she should be adapted? Touko is a very special character for Type-Moon, so when I talked to the writer, I made a lot of changes to her dialogue. The most memorable part was discussing how we needed a reason for her to get involved in the case but the explanation couldn't take too much screentime, so my best idea was that she should be Camus's photography pal. It caught the fan off-guard but they accepted it as pretty in-character for Touko to be this caring to a friend with a shared hobby.
Were El-Melloi II's classmates Camus and Amleth conceptualized for the novels? The El-Melloi Classroom already existed in Kayneth's days, and it had a more normal reputation back then, even, so I expected characters like them to exist. That said, I hadn't put any real thought into any of those characters on an individual level. It was the wonderful people of the anime staff that breathed life into all of his classmates, and I learned about how the old class was the same way the audience did. El-Melloi II's young appearance at the reunion induced them into calling him Waver, but at his real age, they all would probably call him either Lord or El-Melloi II, so this must have been a weirdly nostalgic moment for them.
Is there any part of the OVA you want the viewers to pay special attention to? I loved how they used an advent calendar to show the passage of time! That was in such good taste. Also, Camus's last line, "You were always my hero", is a line I included in the script, as my idea of a good way to close this theme, so I got way more attached to it than I imagined. That's because the inadequate Waver Velvet has always been my hero too.
Relatedly, in sadder news, Sanda's father has passed away on the 13th. The Adventures volume 3 afterword had mentioned how he had collapsed and been hospitalized and now needed to live with Sanda so he could take care of him full time, so it is sad to hear it ended this way.
Do we know if Zouken was using Sakura as a phylactery during the events of Fate/Zero? Or was that only something he did with his heart-worm during Fate/Stay Night a decade later?
Actually, why is FSN called that? It's pretty meaningless to native English speakers, so I imagine it just got picked as it sounded cool to Japanese folk? That tends to be the reason for random foreign language stuff in otherwise-X language media, heh.
Do we know if Zouken was using Sakura as a phylactery during the events of Fate/Zero? Or was that only something he did with his heart-worm during Fate/Stay Night a decade later?
Fundamentally it doesn't matter since Manaka can just smash Zouken either way.
I mean, Zouken has better chance against Manaka than most people, but Manaka is still Manaka.
Fundamentally it doesn't matter since Manaka can just smash Zouken either way.
I mean, Zouken has better chance against Manaka than most people, but Manaka is still Manaka.
Manaka? I think something got lost in conversation here, as I don't recall anyone of that name in Fate/Zero nor Stay Night. And while Sakura did kill Zouken's soul worm in FSN, she kinda~ needed her grail regen in order to pulp her own heart and survive, iirc.
Oh wait, I thought we were in a different thread. Well that's embarrassing. I don't think that he has put the heart worm in yet, as Sakura was still in process of integrating pieces of dark grail or whatever, however I'm just theorizing here.
This is not intended as a censure of any particular person, but a statement of a personal opinion regarding terminology selected by Petrikow for the Tsukimates Tsukihime Remake translation, which he states above to be rendered with a mind toward providing a better reading experience for newcomers. Overall, my complaints here can roughly be divided into two categories:
complaints regarding word selections that aren't representative of perfectly serviceable terminology already in use within the community.
complaints regarding word selections that either aren't representative of the Japanese, or excessively obscure.
Petrikow sort of preemptively characterizes people who might take complaint as "intrepid self-professed TM lore gods." While obviously ironic, I fine this a bit eh, so I'm just not going engage. Again, I haven't any grounds or intention to dictate how anyone translates anything. This is purely just a personal opinion on the matter.
Anyhow, for obvious reasons, no I'm not going to link directly to the glossary. You can find it easily enough on Google.
Ability [異能]
Alternative translations: Abberrant Ability Definition: Powers that can achieve the superhuman. Not really a term, more of a descriptor. Translation context: Literally 'different' (異) + 'ability' (能). This is a very generic term that simply indicates any kind of 'inhuman ability'. Ultimately, we found it easier to simplify it into something that conveys how it's used. Usage notes: Uncapitalized. Regular noun, countable.
Special Ability [特異能力]
Alternative translations: N/A Definition: Full version of the above term. Not really a term, more of a descriptor. Translation context: Literally 'peculiar' (特異) + 'ability' (能力). Builds on the above term, hence they look similar. Usage notes: Uncapitalized. Regular noun, countable.
Prior to this, this was a term generally translated as Aberrant Power. Rather, 異能 (inou, lit. "aberrant ability / power") was understood to be a shorthand of 特異能力 (tokui nouryoku, "distinct / idiosyncratic ability").
Tsukimates renders this as "ability" (uncapitalized), which results in a situation where any situation in which somebody is said to bear an "ability" in the translation, we have to assume that it might be some manner of inhuman ability.
For example, "He had a certain ability with words."
Are we to take this to mean that the person being described merely speaks well? Or that he has some sort of inhuman capability involving the use of words, such as kotodama?
Point is, 異能 in the Japanese isn't "ability" as rendered in the generic, but specifically a special ability of some sort.
Rendering the term in translation as "ability" doesn't really serve to grant newcomers an easier time of comprehending what's being discussed.
Psychic Ability [超能力]
Alternative translations: ESP Definition: Superhuman abilities developed as a mutation in certain people. Translation context: Literally 'super' (超) + 'ability' (能力). This is the standard fandom translation. The term used in Japan to describe superpowers in general. Has ties with Kara no Kyoukai. Usage notes: Uncapitalized. Regular noun, countable.
Psychic [超能力者]
Alternative translations: ESPer Definition: People who have psychic abilities. Translation context: Literally 'psychic power' (超能力) + 'person' (者). This is the standard fandom translation. Usage notes: Uncapitalized. Regular noun, countable.
超能力 (chou-nouryoku, lit. "super power").
In the context of Tsuki Re, there is explication that whereas Aberrant Powers (異能, inou) can be reliably reproduced by various means (for example, eugenics / selective breeding; becoming a Dead Apostle of Rank IV or higher; etc.), a 超能力 is something that arbitrarily manifests for only a single generation, absent of means for reliable reproduction — but speaking in very general terms, you probably won't see the manifestation of a 超能力 outside the condition that the holder comes from a family that already had a history of reliably manifesting Aberrant Powers.
The old Kara no Kyoukai translations generally rendered 超能力 as "Psychic Power" or "Psychic Ability." This is reasonable enough.
Trouble is, in the understanding we would presume with the colloquial use of English, Aberrant Powers as discussed in Tsuki Re are also "psychic."
Ergo, referring to only 超能力 as "Psychic Ability" potentially creates in somebody unknowledgeable of the subject the impression that 異能 are somehow abilities that don't fit the usual sense of psychic abilities.
The takeaway is that 超能力 appear in bloodlines with a history of 異能 as one-off abilities of particular notability, which can't be reliably reproduced.
Superpower [超抜能力]
Alternative translations: N/A Definition: Really strong powers. Translation context: Literally 'outstanding' (超抜) + 'ability' (能力). Mostly used to describe the incredible abilities of Vlov, so using straight up 'superpower' here felt appropriate, even if it fell out of line with the other of the 'ability' category. Not really a term, more of a descriptor. Usage notes: Uncapitalized. Regular noun, countable.
超抜能力 (choubatsu nouryoku, lit. "extremely outstanding / exclusive ability").
As Petrikow states, less a special term and more a descriptor. However, it appears a total of 6 times in all of Tsuki Re, and when not referring specifically to Vlov, it appears in general as a descriptor for potent Aberrant Powers (異能, inou) attained by Dead Apostles of Rank VI or higher.
Personally, I would consider rendering it as "outstanding capability."
Lifescale [存在規模（ライフスケール／スケール）]
Alternative translations: Scale of Existence Definition: Scale of something's existence on a metaphysical level. Differences in scale between things can cause their perception of one another to be hazy. Essentially just means powerlevel. Translation context: Literally 'existence' (存在) + 'scale' (規模). Given the furigana reading of 'ライフスケール' (Lifescale). In this case we just used the furigana reading given, since it is practically the same meaning. Sometimes shortened to just 'スケール' (Scale), at which point we usually try to be clearer and render it as Lifescale (when applicable, not all cases of スケール mean Lifescale). Usage notes: Capitalized. Regular noun, countable.
存在規模 (sonzai kibo, lit. "existential scale") / ライフスケール (lifescale).
FGO NA renders this as "life scale."
Elsewhere in the community, it's often rendered as "Existential Scale."
No particular comment on my part, besides to point out that "Existential Scale" isn't listed here as an alternative translation.
Barrier [結界]
Alternative translations: Bounded Field, Ward Definition: Supernatural boundary. All things that close off a certain area from the normal world are called Barriers, no matter the means utilized to create them. Translation context: Literally 'tie' (結) + 'boundary' (界). Japanese lexical word without direct English equivalent. That said, no need to complicate things. It is used in Japanese fiction to indicate supernatural shields and barriers. It is capitalized to differentiate it from normal barriers. Usage notes: Capitalized. Regular noun, countable.
結界 (kekkai, lit. "bounded field").
Part of the reason this has historically been rendered as "Bounded Field" is that not all 結界 are "barriers."
The security perimeter around Shirou's house counts as a 結界, and it doesn't function as a barrier.
Bloodsucker [吸血種]
Alternative translations: Bloodsucking Species Definition: Creatures that suck blood and are immortal. This is a super-category that includes vampires. Translation context: Literally 'bloodsucking' (吸血) + 'species' (種). There are some older translations (as in, pre-2010) that favor 'Bloodsucking Species' which is a tad more descriptive. In recent years it has generally strayed towards 'bloodsucker' which is what we also settled on. This term has proven a tad unpopular with editors, so there were brief thoughts about making it something more elegant, but the ease of understanding with 'bloodsucker' ultimately won out. Usage notes: Uncapitalized. Regular noun, countable.
吸血種 (kyuuketsu-shu, lit. "blood-sucking species / breed").
Alternative translations not noted here: "Vampiric Breed," "Vampiric Species."
Vampiric Urge [吸血衝動]
Alternative translations: Bloodsucking Impulse Definition: That which compels a vampire to suck blood. Especially strong among True Ancestors. Translation context: Literally 'bloodsucking' (吸血) + 'urge' (衝動). While the word 'bloodsucking impulse' certainly does give special heed to the concept, it also sounds fairly detached from how the Japanese expresses it. Rather than an 'impulse' (a sudden craving), describing it as an 'urge' (a need to do something) felt more appropriate. 'vampiric' was then added as it sounded better in editing. Usage notes: Capitalized. Regular noun, countable.
吸血衝動 (kyuuketsu shuudou, lit. "blood-sucking impulse").
Alternative translations not noted here: "Vampiric Impulse."
衝動 (shuudou) is lit. "impulse / impetus." You can describe as an "urge," but technically, it can be used to characterize inanimate objects that literally don't have "urges." For example, 衝動タ—ビン (shuudou taabin) is an "impulse turbine." Ergo, if I were to see the word appear in a vacuum, I would be inclined to translate it as "impulse."
Young Blood [新参]
Alternative translations: N/A Definition: Ancestors from after the common era. Primary example is Vlov. Translation context: Literally 'new' (新) + 'arrive' (参). The usage of 'blood' fits well into the vampire themes of not only literal blood, but also to that of the aristocratic kind. Usage notes: Uncapitalized. Regular noun, countable + Attributive, uncountable.
Old Blood [古参]
Alternative translations: N/A Definition: Ancestors from before the common era. Primary example are the five old bloods of the Age of Gods Alliance. Translation context: Literally 'old' (古) + 'arrive' (参). See 'Young Blood' entry. Usage notes: Uncapitalized. Regular noun, countable + Attributive, uncountable.
It's reasonable to render 新参 (shinzan) and 古参 (kosan) as "Young Blood" and "Old Blood" respectively, but the terms themselves just describe "newcomer" and "those of seniority." Involving "blood" as part of the terminology is an artistic / stylistic choice by Petrikow that isn't represented in the original Japanese.
Principle [原理]
Alternative translations: Idea Definition: The type of ability acquired by long-lived vampires. Translation context: Literally 'principle'. In 1 instance, it has the furigana reading of 'イデア' (ïdea, specifically the Greek pronunciation), referencing 'Idea Blood'. Usage notes: Capitalized. Regular noun, countable.
Hemonomic Principle / Idea Blood [原理血戒／イデアブラッド]
Alternative translations: N/A Definition: The type of ability held by the Ancestors. Itself seemingly a type of Principle (details unknown). Translation context: Literally 'principle' (原理) + 'blood' (血) + 'precept' (戒). As 血戒 isn't a real word, but rather a composite invented by Nasu, it was rendered using Greek-English roots and turned into Hemonomic (blood + law). It is used interchangeably with Idea Blood, which is another term for the same concept. Usage notes: Capitalized. Regular noun, countable.
原理血戒 (genri kekkai) literally renders as "Principle Blood Commandment," where 血戒 (kekkai) — comprised of 血 (ketsu, "blood") and 戒 (kai, "commandment / admonishment / rule") — is possibly a pun on 結界 (kekkai, lit. "bounded field").
In this case, Nasu has literally provided the English pronunciation イデアブラッド — "Idea Blood" — so, I would think that when referring to the term in discussion, this is a reasonable shorthand, unless circumstances require discussion of the Japanese text prior to the pronunciation. In that case, there's reason to render 原理血戒 in a way that would represent the original Japanese text.
In my opinion, "Hemonomic Principle" doesn't.
In the game itself, an Idea Blood is given more or less to be a supernatural ability that gives expression to — enforces as a "law" — a Principle / Idea, via the medium of an Ancestor's blood.
Contrary to this, selection of the terms "Principle" and "Hemonomic Principle" lends toward the impression that the latter is some sort of variant or subcategory of the former. That is, that there's a broader category of "Principles," and a narrower subcategory of "Hemonomic Principles."
This is not actually the case.
Using Petrikow's own choices of terminology, it would be more representative of the context provided by the Japanese to say that Idea Bloods are "Hemonomia" — "laws of blood" — that enforce or give expression to "Principles."
Perhaps "Principle Hemonomia," or something of the sort.
That said, I would personally choose to represent 原理血戒 with words that can be comprehended at face value, rather than a made-up term.
A newcomer who doesn't go out of their way to look up the Greek roots would simply look at the word and not know what to make of it — maybe wondering if Nasu used the word "Hemonomic" in the original text.
Suzerain [城主]
Alternative translations: Castle Lord Definition: Dead Apostles who own territory and expand their influence through the gradual buildup of underlings. Translation context: Literally 'castle' (城) + 'lord' (主). Used in Japanese historical literature to describe European feudal lords. As a result, 'suzerain' was chosen to reflect the feudal context of the word. Usage notes: Capitalized. Regular noun, countable.
城主 (juushu, lit. "castle lord").
Suzerain is an obscure term that newcomers are unlikely to be able to make heads or tales of. Petrikow mentions above that he choses this term in part because there isn't actually a "castle" involved.
Personally, I don't find this to be a particularly compelling reason for the choice. Regardless that castles aren't actually involved, Nasu explicitly chose to make use of the term 城主. If we wish to properly represent that in English, "Castle Lord" is reasonable. If you want to be fancy about it, maybe "Castellan" — though, personally, I wouldn't choose that.
Sacrament Assembly [秘蹟会]
Alternative translations: N/A Definition: Sub-organizations within the Holy Church. Translation context: Literally 'sacrament' (秘蹟) + 'meeting' (会). This is sort of the standard fandom translation. There is a slight caveat to this term: originally 秘蹟会 was defined as a single entity, specifically the 8th Sacrament Assembly. Kotomine from F/SN belonged to that organization, and for a long time it was assumed that there was just this one Sacrament Assembly. In this game, however, there are clear references to this term representing a group of organizations, rendering it a more inclusive term. Usage notes: Capitalized. Regular noun, countable.
秘蹟会 (hiseki-kai, lit. "sacrament assembly").
Sacrament Assembly is a reasonable translation, but translations of Fate Zero rendered 第八秘蹟会 (dai-hachi hiseki-kai) as "Assembly of the 8th Sacrament." This is specifically on account that we know from the Glossary of FZ Animation Guide I that the things that are being assigned numbers are more likely the Sacraments, and not the Assemblies.
Fate Zero Animation Guide I said:
Assembly of the Eighth Sacrament [organization]
The Assembly of the Eighth Sacrament is a special agency charged with the recovery and management of holy artifacts. Kirei and Risei are members. The "Sacrament" in this agency's name refers to the seven sacraments of the Catholic Church, which according to Catholic theology were entrusted to the Church by God. The "Eight Sacrament" refers to divine grace not derived from Catholic dogma proper. Accordingly, the agency is accustomed to engaging heretical powers beyond the scope of human understanding.
(Unfoundedly) presuming it's the case that it's the Sacraments that are being assigned numbers, it might be more in-line with existing translations to render the names of these Assemblies in English as "the Assembly of the Xth Sacrament" or so forth.
Presbyter [司祭]
Alternative translations: Priest, Prelate Definition: Official within the Holy Church. Translation context: Literally 'presbyter'. Despite how frequent this term is in the Nasuverse, it hasn't really been standardized. It often shows up as 'priest', which isn't necessarily wrong, but can make it difficult to differentiate from '神父' (priest). For those not in the know, Presbyter is the Latin origin of the word 'priest' and is still used in Catholic contexts for the profession. Given that this is an official rank in the Catholic-inspired Holy Church it felt appropriate to give it that Latin flavor. Usage notes: Both capitalized and uncapitalized. Both title and regular noun, countable.
司祭 (shisai, lit. "[one who] administrates rites / ceremonies / festivities") in the Japanese is not in fact "literally Presbyter."
For example, Jisho gives:
Noun, Noun which may take the genitive case particle 'no'
1. priest; minister; pastor
Wikipedia definition
2. Priest. A priest is a person authorized to perform the sacred rituals of a religion, especially as a mediatory agent between humans and deity(s). They also have the authority or power to administer religious rites; in particular, rites of sacrifice to, and propitiation of, a deity or deities. Their office or position is the priesthood, a term which also may apply to such persons collectively. Priests and priestesses have existed since the earliest of times and in the simplest societies.
presbyter noun
pres·by·ter | \ ˈprez-bə-tər , ˈpres- \
Definition of presbyter
1: a member of the governing body of an early Christian church
2: a member of the order of priests in churches having episcopal hierarchies that include bishops, priests, and deacons
3: a permanent officer elected by a Presbyterian congregation and ordained to serve on the session and assist the pastor at communion
Presbyter (/ˈprɛzbɪtər/) is an honorific title for Christian clergy. The word derives from the Greek presbyteros, which means elder or senior, although many in the Christian antiquity would understand presbyteros to refer to the bishop functioning as overseer. The word Presbyter is also mentioned in the New Testament.
In modern Catholic and Orthodox usage, presbyter is distinct from bishop and synonymous with priest. In predominant Protestant usage, presbyter does not refer to a member of a distinctive priesthood called priests, but rather to a minister, pastor, or elder.
Focusing on the Merriam-Webster definition, sense 1 is probably inapplicable in the present day, and sense 3 is something specific to the Prebysterian Church.
Sense 2 refers a member of clergy that exists within a church that has a hierarchy of ranks. Ergo, there's a removal of specificity that might be akin to referring to a Sergeant in the military as just "an officer."
Per Wikipedia, within modern Catholicism, "presbyter" is synonymous to "priest," but not to "bishop"; where "bishops" are clergy above a certain level of jurisdictional authority, and "priests" are more a generic title. Being as we know more or less that the Holy Church is the "hidden side" of the Catholic Church, the Protestant usage of the term is probably irrelevant.
カトリック教会において、司祭とは司教・司祭・助祭と三つある聖職位階のうちの一つ。
In the context of the Catholic Church, priests (司祭, shisai) refer to one among the three clerical ranks of bishop (司教, shikyou), priest (司祭, shisai), and deacon (助祭, josai).
So, 司祭 (shisai) is both a generic term for the category of clergy that translates as "priest," but encompasses the ranks of bishop, priest, and deacon; and also a specific term for the middle of the three ranks.
To apply appropriate nuance, "presbyter" is synonymous with the name of the category, but you probably wouldn't be referring to a particular individual by a category name.
Executor [代行者]
Alternative translations: Agent Definition: Someone in the employ of the Holy Church, tasked with fighting vampires and other inhuman creatures. Translation context: Literally 'agent' (代行者). This is the standard fandom translation. Given the furigana reading 'エクセキューター' on regular basis, which is often adapted as 'Executor' for translations. Usage notes: Capitalized. Regular noun, countable.
Acting Presbyter [司祭代行]
Alternative translations: Acting Priest, Acting Prelate Definition: Someone who has temporarily assumed the role of Presbyter. Mario's official title. Translation context: Literally 'presbyter' (司祭) + 'represent' (代行). See 'Presbyter' entry. This term has appeared once before in Hollow Ataraxia, where it was Caren's title. There's a single scene where Ciel calls Mario 司祭代理 instead, which is essentially the same thing but with a slightly different word. There it has been rendered as 'Deputy Presbyter'. Incidentally, that's also Fumie Irie's title (from Mahoyo). Usage notes: Capitalized. Both title and regular noun, countable.
代行 (daikou) is either a verb that means "acting in lieu of / on behalf of," or a noun that means "[one who] acts in lieu of / on behalf of."
代行者 (daikousha) is a term that means "one who acts in lieu of / on behalf of." Side Material and other sources give エクスキューター — "Executor" — as an official pronunciation in English, with the understanding that the nuance applicable "those who act on behalf of," such as a lawyer acting as the "executor" to the estate of a deceased individual.
That being established, 司祭代行 (shisai daikou) would more appropriately be something along the lines of a "Priest Executor," or somebody who acts as an executor who acts in lieu of a priest.
The 代理 (dairi) in 司祭代理 (shisai dairi) is in my opinion something that less invokes the nuance of "deputy," and more "proxy" or "agent"; somebody who acts as a surrogate or stand-in to a priest.
Conceptual Weapon [概念武装]
Alternative translations: N/A Definition: Weapons that destroy through imposing a concept on its target instead of using sheer firepower. Translation context: Literally 'concept' + 'armament'. This is the standard fandom translation. Shows up once in Fate/EXTRA with the katakana 'ロジックカンサー' (Logic Cancer), but that appears to be a term exclusive to the EXTRA-verse. Usage notes: Capitalized. Regular noun, countable.
Scriptural Weapon [聖典武装]
Alternative translations: N/A Definition: Scriptures in the form of weapons. Used for killing the undead. Black Keys are the greatest example. Translation context: Literally 'scripture' (聖典) + 'armament' (武装). We used the adjectival form of Scripture to make it flow better. Usage notes: Capitalized. Regular noun, countable.
概念武装 (gainen busou) — "Conceptual Armament."
聖典武装 (seiten busou) — "Holy Scripture Armament." I would render it as "Scriptural Armament."
武装 (busou) is literally armament, but Petrikow renders it here as weapon.
This is reasonable, but historically, Nasu et al. haven't used the term specifically to refer to weapons.
For example, Emiya's red coat is explicitly referred to as a 概念武装 in Side Material.
If we translate this particular use of 概念武装 as "Conceptual Weapon," are we to understand that Emiya's red coat is now a weapon of some variety?
In my opinion, "Armament" is more flexible.
Arcane [神秘]
Alternative translations: Mystics, Mystery, Occult, Arcane Mystery Definition: Things of supernatural nature. The more about the thing in question that is revealed, the weaker it gets. Translation context: Literally 'god' (神) + 'secret' (秘). Japanese lexical word with no direct translation. Describes the 'hidden mystical and supernatural things of the world'. It is used in a vast variety of ways in Nasuverse lore, both attributively (ex: 神秘組織, 'arcane organization') and as a noun (ex: 修得する神秘, 'obtainable arcana'). For people familiar with the Nasuverse lore, this is no doubt a large change. The impetus came from the fact that 'mystery' (used previously) could not be applied in a sane way to all the applications of the Japanese word. Arcane (and its noun derivatives of Arcanum and Arcana) are used to cover all the usage cases. In addition, the usage of 'mystery' rendered things somewhat confusing for new readers, as well as making it difficult to use the very common word 'mystery' at all without confusion. Arcane has the nuance of meaning both 'hidden/obscure/known by few' while also having a more supernatural bent that 'mystery' struggles to achieve (being mostly focused on the 'hidden' part). Naturally the term is discussed in both KnK and Mahoyo as being related to the Greek word for 'mystery', but the emphasis those works put on the hidden nature of it doesn't exist in the same way here, where it is almost exclusively used to describe things of supernatural nature. It has also been given many different furigana through the years, but never something consistent. Usage notes: Uncapitalized. Irregular usage. Arcane: adjective. Arcanum: irregular noun, countable (plural is Arcana). The Arcane: name of general category. Arcanity: attributive noun, countable and uncountable (never used in this translation).
「Correct.
Not [in reference] to detective novels, but mystère in the sense of mysterious.」
「Huh. It was originally Greek, wasn't it — even though [it exists] in English.」
「... well, that is the case.
In Greek, the [root] would mean 'to shut.'
Closed, occulted, self-contained.
Mystery, you see, holds meaning in the fact it's a Mystery.
Matters occulted are the very quintessence of thaumaturgy.
A thaumaturgy revealed of its inherent nature would irrelevant that it makes use of supernatural techniques not become as Mystery.
It would be as merely a means [to an end].
And once it is as such, the thaumaturgy [in question] would just as quickly come to weaken.」
Ergo, from Kara no Kyoukai, we know that the term 神秘 (shinpi) explicitly references / relates to the French "mystère" and the English "mystery."
This has been the general use translation that's existed in the community for years, but Petrikow here makes an argument in favor of changing it to "Arcane / Arcana / Arcanum" for "the benefit of newcomers."
Maybe this argument is reasonable? Except that those newcomers we're worrying after are going to attempt to look up "Arcanum" in resources related to Type-Moon, and either find nothing to clarify, or some reference to the explanation in Kara no Kyoukai, which says, "it refers to 'mystery' and 'mystère.'"
Numeromancy [数秘紋]
Alternative translations: Numerology, Gematria Definition: Type of magecraft that involves numbers. Roa uses it to conjure lightning. Translation context: Literally 'number' (数) + 'secret' (秘) + 'crest' (紋). Seemingly a made-up term. Very close to 数秘学/数秘術 (numerology). As it appears to be a magical twist on numerology (which itself is already quite mystical in nature) the term 'numeromancy' seemed appropriate. Usage notes: Capitalized. Regular noun, uncountable.
The 紋 (mon) in 数秘紋 (suuhi-mon) is means "crest / pattern / design."
数秘紋 appears exactly once in the entirety of Tsuki Re:
Tsukihime Remake said:
イデアブラッドによる魔力制御で数秘紋の詠唱を極限短縮し、電荷を発現させる。
[By way of] the extreme contraction of the incantation for 数秘紋 (suuhi-mon) per the control of thaumaturgical energy [granted by] Idea Blood, an electrical charge is manifested.
Being as 数秘術 (suuhi-jutsu) renders as "numerology" or "Gematria," we can infer from the context that 数秘紋 may mean something similar to "numerology." That said, this fails to represent the use of 紋 in the term, which in my opinion makes "numerology" less than satisfactory as a translation.
Out of context, I'd be inclined to render the term as "numerological crest," but that doesn't really fit in the single usage of the term within the game script.
Maybe "the incantation for numerological design?" No idea. I just find "Numeromancy" a kind of poor fit.
Avatar in White [白い化身]
Alternative translations: White Avatar Definition: Common metaphor used to describe Arcueid, who is the avatar of the planet and... Translation context: Literally 'white' (白い) + 'avatar' (化身). Styled in a way as to avoid making any racial connections (which is not the intent in Japanese). Usage notes: Uncapitalized. Regular noun, countable.
白い化身 (shiroi keshin) renders as "white incarnation," where 化身 (keshin) is lit. "rendering to body / carnality / flesh." This is generally a Buddhist term that describes the flesh incarnation of a supernatural being.
There's nothing particularly wrong with using the word "Avatar," beyond that that's a term whose nuance is more in line with the incarnation of Hindu deities — a bit removed from the general use of the term 化身 in Japanese.
That said, I'm not really sure I'd see any racial connotations if I were to see the term "White Incarnation" in English.
Inner Sea of the Planet [星の内海]
Alternative translations: Inlet of the Planet, Planet's Inner Sea Definition: Reverse side of the planet. Gaia's dream. Inaccessible by most human means. Translation context: Literally 'of planet' (星の) + 'inner sea' (内海). This is the standard fandom translation. Usage notes:
Planet's Sense of Touch [星の触覚]
Alternative translations: N/A Definition: Function of the True Ancestors, who embody the planet's will. Translation context: Literally 'of planet' (星の) + 'sense of touch' (触覚). Usage notes: Uncapitalized. Regular noun, countable.
星の内海 (hoshi no naikai) — "the Inner Sea of the Star"
星の触覚 (hoshi no shokkaku) — "the Tactile Sense of the Star."
When describing the Earth in a supernatural capacity, Nasu generally uses the term 星 (hoshi, "star").
When describing the Earth as a place or an object, Nasu often uses the term 惑星 (wakusei, "planet").
Obviously, the distinction isn't absolute, and occasionally he treats the terms interchangeably — but, if the objective is to represent the Japanese in its original nuance, I don't think that use of "Star" is particularly confusing to newcomers.
触覚 (shokkaku) as "sense of touch" isn't really unreasonable, but my personal preference would be to render the term as "tactile sense."
Precept of Henosis [解脱の法]
Alternative translations: N/A Definition: That which Mario demands Roa reveal to him. Mario believes it can solve the question of eternal youth. Translation context: Literally 'of moksha' (解脱の) + 'law/method' (法). Moksha is a Buddhist concept that entails releasing oneself from the earthly plane to attain nirvana. It is used in Japanese to refer to things that have more generally released themselves from the world, or in some way overcome it. In this case we drew a parallel to a similar concept in western philosophical thought: Henosis, to become united with the fundamental truth of reality. Usage notes: Capitalized. Regular noun, uncountable.
解脱 (gedatsu) literally renders as "release / liberation." Whereas the sense this term adopts in Buddhism is indeed "Moksha," newcomers that haven't bothered to look it up won't know what that is, and they're even less likely to comprehend the term "Henosis." Moreover, "Henosis" is a union unto the oneness of all. While "Moksha" does ultimately come with the meaning of "uniting with everything," the specific stress of the word is in the concept of being released / liberated from the suffering that is the mortal coil.
In my opinion, it'd be more appropriate just to render 解脱 to the much-easier-to-comprehend "Liberation." In the first place, Roa comes of a western background, and there's nothing to say that the original sense of the term is specifically related to Moksha, as Petrikow here concludes.
Petrikow here renders 法 (hou) as "Precept," explaining that it translates literally as "law / method."
While this is valid, in popular fiction, 法 is sometimes a shorthand for something along the lines of 秘法 (hihou, lit. "secret method"), which refers to "an esoteric rite."
For example, in 3x3 Eyes — a manga about a princess who is the last of an inhuman race from the Himalayas, who holds a grudge against a reincarnator who ended her people; and her manservant / boyfriend, a man who can't be killed by anything — the heroine is seeking something called the 人化の法 (jinka no hou), "the Rite of Rendition Unto Humanity."
Paragon [霊長/類]
Alternative translations: Primate, Humanity, Prime Being, Prime Species, Apex Species Definition: Category of beings who define the planet's way of being. The Paragon Seat (霊長の座) is currently occupied by humanity. Seemingly includes beings which have the same potential (details unclear). Translation context: Literally 'soul' (霊) + 'leader' (長). This is poetic language from old Chinese used to indicate humanity's supremacy among all living beings, later adapted into Japanese. This word was then used to name the clade of animals that we know as apes, the primates, by adding on a '類' (category). Generally translated as 'primate', despite the fact that it shows up both as '霊長' and '霊長類'; despite the fact that it makes for ridiculous sentences (ex: "The complete murder of the primates by means of the Incineration of Humanity." from F/GO Camelot's official translation); and despite the fact that it does not mean 'ape' in a Nasuverse context. The word 'paragon' as a translation was inspired by a Chinese translation of Shakespeare's Hamlet, where the line "the paragon of animals" (from the famous "What a piece of work is man!" speech) was rendered as "萬物的靈長" (万物の霊長 in Japanese). The word Paragon captures the 'preeminence' part of the meaning perfectly and does not involve gorilla murder. "But what about Primate Murder?" Well, hopefully we don't have to ever start translating '殺人者' as 'Murder'. Sometimes abiding so strictly to the nonsense English made-up by Nasu 20 years ago can obscure what is actually being said. Usage notes: Capitalized. Regular noun, countable.
霊長 (reichou) renders literally as "foremost in spirit," and refers in Japanese to the clade of apes.
In its original sense, prior to use in biological science, 霊長 referred to those borne of "superior capability" in some "spiritual capacity."
As far as I understand, the term 霊長類 (reichou-rui, "the class / category of primates" in the biological sense) was introduced or popularized in the 1st Edition of the English-Japanese Japanese English Dictionary of Earth Science (英和・和英 地学字彙), published in 1914 by the Tokyo Earth Science Foundation (東京地学協会).
Here, it was specifically given as a Japanese translation to the English scientific term "Primates," for purposes of standardization in scientific publication:
Meanwhile, Wikipedia says the following of the English use of the term "Primates" as a classification for apes:
The English name primates is derived from Old French or French primat, from a noun use of Latin primat-, from primus ('prime, first rank'). The name was given by Carl Linnaeus because he thought this the "highest" order of animals. The relationships among the different groups of primates were not clearly understood until relatively recently, so the commonly used terms are somewhat confused. For example, ape has been used either as an alternative for monkey or for any tailless, relatively human-like primate.
So, yes, the official translation of the game does in fact use "Primate."
I'll acknowledge that adoption of the term "Primate" as an official translation for 霊長 is other cases inconsistent.
To use an example that gives a sense of how Nasu et al. typically make use of 霊長 in the script:
FGO JP said:
さて。大きく分けて、
Now, then. Broadly speaking,
北欧には三種の霊長が存在している。
as of Northern Europe, there exist three types of Primates (霊長, reichou).
ここで言う霊長とは高度な知性体や文明の保持者とかの意味ではなくて、
That which I here refer to primates isn't in the sense of 'higher order sapients or those borne of civilization' or so forth,
生命力や支配力を指している。
but in reference to vital force (生命力, seimei-ryoku, lit. "life force") and capacity for domination (支配力, shihai-ryoku, lit. "strength / force for [asserting] dominion").
This was stated by da Vinci in reference to the giants, the humans, and the Valkyries (and Skadi). Ergo, all three of these classify within the 2nd Lostbelt as 霊長.
This was official rendered in the English as follows:
FGO NA said:
Now then, there are basically three
different kinds of beings here.
And by "beings," it's worth noting that I'm talking about strong, dominant creatures, not necessarily those of intelligence who have formed civilizations.
Quite often, the official localizers deal with the word 霊長 by just ignoring it outright.
In any case, Petrikow here makes an argument that "Paragon" is easier to comprehend as a translation of 霊長 for newcomers, as Nasu doesn't in fact use the term 霊長 to refer specifically to "Primates" in the biological sense.
Sure, reasonable enough. After all, in Tsuki Re, 霊長 generally appears as a term for "the dominant species upon the Surface." Maybe we can ignore the likelihood that 霊長 as a category applied to organisms was introduced as a way of translating "Primates" in the biological sense; or that we can maybe infer that Nasu is making use of the original sense of "spiritual superiority."
Indeed, 霊長 are "preeminent." However, none of the uses of the term in canon reflect the sense that they can be characterized as "models of perfection."
My preference is to leave this alone; to just leave be the standard translation of "Primate" currently in use within the community — not only because we see it in official materials, but because newcomers looking up information are more likely to run across it than a term like "Paragon"; because, in a lot of ways, "Paragon" just doesn't really capture the nuance of the term.
Source [根源]
Alternative translations: Root, Radix Definition: Causation point of all of reality. Causes flow out of the Source, giving rise to all other events. Reaching the Source is the ambition of western mages. Translation context: Literally 'root' (根) + 'wellspring' (源). This is another major deviation from standard fandom translations. It may seem strange to think, but 'root' has probably been a pretty major misinterpretation of this term. The most practical reason it has been changed is because the one scene it's brought up in makes it clear that this concept is meant to be interpreted as a sort of water-like thing. This is the reason why this 'swirl' (渦, literally: 'whirlpool') word is applied to it all the time (in this translation, rendered as 'maelstrom') and why its described as 'flowing'. You might wonder something along the lines of: "Isn't this just some peculiarity with how its used here in TsukiRE? After all, aside from 'whirl' (渦), it doesn't have that many water-like metaphors applied to it." The truth is: this is how it's first described in any Nasu-work: Kara no Kyoukai. Here the metaphor extends even further, involving rivers and dripping and all manners of watery terminology. So while originally simply considered as a way of correcting this metaphor in Tsukihime, as it turns out, this was the metaphor intended for the term all along. This is why it is now 'source' (as in, water source, etc), instead of 'root'. Usage notes: Capitalized. Regular noun, uncountable.
根源 (kongen, lit. "root source"). Yes, you can translate 源 (minamoto) as "fountainhead / wellspring," but in its iteration as 源 (gen), it's more commonly just "source."
Removed of further context, I don't actually find it unreasonable to translate 根源 as "Source." However, 根源 outside the context of Nasu doesn't really get invoked with "watery imagery." You typically find it in usages such as 諸悪の根源 (sho-aku no kongen) — "the root of all evil"; or 文化的根源 (bunka-teki kongen) — "cultural root."
Meanwhile, "Radix" is literally the DeepL machine translation from the Tsuki Re texthook patch; whereas Root has been the standard community translation in use up until Petrikow decided to weigh in. These two appearing side-by-side as "alternative translations" should require a little further in the way of qualification. At the very least, I haven't personally seen "Radix" being in common use.
So to assess Petrikow's claims above, though, how is 根源 actually used in Tsuki Re?
「すべての事象には大本になった原因、絶対の一がある。
「For all phenomena, there exists a cause (原因, gen'in) what becomes as a basis (大本, oomoto); an absolute '一.'
この宇宙のはじまりにしておしまいの地点。
The place where this Universe begins and ends.
そこには『全てを記録したモノ』がある。
There, there exists 『that which [commits] all to record』.
記録というよりは『有る』ものだから、情報とは呼べない。
On account that it's more an 『existence』 and [less something that can be] called a record, it cannot be described as information.
ただ『有る』だけ。
It's merely 『existence』 alone.
それ自体に意思はないし、方向性もありえない。
This itself is absent of consciousness, and likewise cannot [bear] a Directionality (方向性, houkousei).
原因を垂れ流しているだけの、根源の渦みたいなものね」
It's an existence alike to a swirl of the Root (根源の渦, kongen no uzu, lit. "swirl / maelstrom of the root source"), which merely discharges causes.」
「この宇宙にあるものは、その渦から流れ、派生して、今のカタチに行き着いたわ。
「[All] which exists within this Universe [does] in derivation; in flowing [forth] from this swirl arrive as of its present form.
わたしも志貴も、吸血種も人間も、もとはそこから始まった原子にすぎない。
For both I and Shiki — both Vampiric Breed and humanity — [our] bases are as nothing more than atoms (原子, genshi) that there began.
……もう離れすぎ、複雑になりすぎてしまって、原因である始まりに戻ることはできないけど、とにかくそういった『一』があるのは分かるでしょう？」
... [on account of having come to be] too far separated and excessively complex, the matter of returning to the beginning that is as the cause cannot be attained, but you comprehend in any case that such a 『一』 exists, [yes]?」
「でもね、たとえどんなに大本からかけ離れたカタチになっても、派生した存在である以上、とても細い線だけど糸はつながっているのよ」
「That said, irrelevant [the extent] that the form assumed is separated from the basis, by virtue of being a derivative existence, a connection [persists], even that it's just a thin thread.」
「全ての根源、全ての始まりと終わりを記録したレコード。
「The root of all (全ての根源, subete no kongen); the record what documents the beginning and end of everything.
それと繋がっているものは、物事の終わりを『識っている』事になる。
That which connects to such comes to 『apprehend』 (識っている, shitteiru) the end of things.
高等動物の脳は受信と送信をつかさどる機能なんだけど、たいていの人間はその回線が自分に対してのみで閉じてしまっている。
Though the brains of higher-order animals [bear] the functionality (機能, kinou) as to administrate (つかさどる, tsukasadoru) reception (受信, jushin) and transmission (送信, soushin), the majority of humans have to themselves alone closed that Channel (回線, channel).
けど、中には潜在的に回線が開いている人間もいる。
However, amongst [these], there also exist humans who [bear] latently open Channels.
なんの魔術回路も利用せず、超越種でさえないのに超常現象を可能とする人間」
Humans who render render as possible supernatural phenomena absent the use of any thaumaturgical circuits; absent even of being of the Transcendent Kind (超越種, choetsu-shu).」
「For all phenomena, there exists a cause what becomes as a basis; an absolute '一.'
The place where this Universe begins and ends.
There, there exists 『that which [commits] all to record』.
On account that it's more an 『existence』 and [less something that can be] called a record, it cannot be described as information.
It's merely 『existence』 alone.
This itself is absent of consciousness, and likewise cannot [bear] a Directionality.
It's an existence alike to a swirl of the Root, which merely discharges causes.」
「[All] which exists within this Universe [does] in derivation; in flowing [forth] from this swirl arrive as of its present form.
For both I and Shiki — both Vampiric Breed and humanity — [our] bases are as nothing more than atoms that there began.
... [on account of having come to be] too far separated and excessively complex, the matter of returning to the beginning that is as the cause cannot be attained, but you comprehend in any case that such a 『一』 exists, [yes]?」
「That said, irrelevant [the extent] that the form assumed is separated from the basis, by virtue of being a derivative existence, a connection [persists], even that it's just a thin thread.」
「The root of all; the record what documents the beginning and end of everything.
That which connects to such comes to 『apprehend』 the end of things.
Though the brains of higher-order animals [bear] the functionality as to administrate reception and transmission, the majority of humans have to themselves alone closed that Channel.
However, amongst [these], there also exist humans who [bear] latently open Channels.
Humans who render render as possible supernatural phenomena absent the use of any thaumaturgical circuits; absent even of being of the Transcendent Kind.」
In short, it's pretty much just the usual thing, and I personally don't feel that there's much basis in asserting that "watery imagery" justifies translating 根源 as "Source" any more than usual.
Still, if the argument is "根源の渦 (kongen no uzu) is in context more reasonably rendered as something along the times of 'the swirl of the foundhead / wellspring,'" I wouldn't disagree.
My primary contention is that if you're going to start using "Source" as a term for the benefit of newcomers, I'm again not certain that I see any merit to that. They can more easily look up "Root" and find an explanation.
Directive [方向性]
Alternative translations: Directivity Definition: That which gives matter its meaning. Translation context: Literally 'direction' (方向) + 'attribute' (性). Normal lexical word. Usage notes: Uncapitalized. Regular noun, countable.
方向性 (houkousei) literally translates as "the characteristic of bearing a direction."
Historically, it's often been rendered as "Directionality." The Origins that people possess are described as Directionalities. So are the "impulses" associated with Wishes and Curses.
It isn't unreasonable to translate this as "Directivity," I suppose, but my personal preference is "Directionality."
Focality [極点]
Alternative translations: Extremum Definition: Spot of extreme convergence, almost like a singularity. Arcueid possesses the 'Principle of Focality' (see: Melty Blood Type Lumina). Translation context: Literally 'extreme' (極) + 'point' (点). 'Focality' is a word which indicates where things focus at, hence it fit well with the usage in Tsukihime. Usage notes: Uncapitalized. Regular noun, countable.
極点 (kyoku-ten) is a "point of extremity," such as a "pole" (in the sense of the North and South Poles).
In Type Lumina, we hear that Arcuied bears the 極点の原理, which Petrikow would translate as "Principle of Focality." In context, all it means is that she bears a "Principle" characterized by outstanding extremity.
"Focality," however, has the implication of being some kind of "focus," and I'm not really convinced 極点 carries that nuance.
Isn't it reasonable just to render this as "a Principle of Extremity" or something along those lines?
Also, "Arcanum" and "Extremum?" Have we ventured into BlazBlue territory, where it's fashionable to apply arbitrary Latin in localization?
Obviously, the distinction isn't absolute, and occasionally he treats the terms interchangeably — but, if the objective is to represent the Japanese in its original nuance, I don't think that use of "Star" is particularly confusing to newcomers.
I would argue the use of star would be very confusing unless you already have the context for how it's loosely used to mean heavenly/celestial bodies more generally. Star - in a cosmic sense - refers only to actual stars as in the giant balls of fusion in English so a naive reader is unlikely to read 'Inner sea of the Star' as anything other than somehow relating to a literal star somewhere.
Informative stuff as always, fallacies. I find the rendering of Bounded Fields as 'Shields' weird, due to being used to seeing 'em as 'magic barrior, not always solid' in fanfic or official media, whereas shield implies solidity. Otherwise the changes are rather neutral for me, as I haven't played TsukiRe yet.
Sorry if this is a weird aside but I watched the Mout of Madness recently and the proposed way reality works there is that its basically a mutual agreement between all people. Thus if the idea of what is reality shifts, the world begins to shift with it, which allows Lovecraftian stuff to start happening. Is that more or less the same principle that Type Moon's setting operates under?
Sorry if this is a weird aside but I watched the Mout of Madness recently and the proposed way reality works there is that its basically a mutual agreement between all people. Thus if the idea of what is reality shifts, the world begins to shift with it, which allows Lovecraftian stuff to start happening. Is that more or less the same principle that Type Moon's setting operates under?
As far as I understand it, "reality" is defined by the Common Sense of Mankind, being that what is for the most part accepted as fact by humankind in general becomes truth. Gods and monsters don't exist, so gods and monsters must retreat from the world or be erased. Magic doesn't exist and all things have scientific explanations, so Mystery is declining and will eventually vanish.
The idea of what reality is can't really shift because the Common Sense is such a wide-ranging thing that even if individuals know about magecraft and the like, the greater whole doesn't accept it, and the general thought on what will happen when magecraft is discovered isn't that it'll be incorporated into the belief of the world and not die, it's that it'll be erased even harder once people study it scientifically. You can't really fight against the Common Sense in that regard.
The only time reality gets overwritten or changes in any meaningful way is if something extremely powerful and alien is actively working to do so, like ORT.
As far as I understand it, "reality" is defined by the Common Sense of Mankind, being that what is for the most part accepted as fact by humankind in general becomes truth. Gods and monsters don't exist, so gods and monsters must retreat from the world or be erased. Magic doesn't exist and all things have scientific explanations, so Mystery is declining and will eventually vanish.
The idea of what reality is can't really shift because the Common Sense is such a wide-ranging thing that even if individuals know about magecraft and the like, the greater whole doesn't accept it, and the general thought on what will happen when magecraft is discovered isn't that it'll be incorporated into the belief of the world and not die, it's that it'll be erased even harder once people study it scientifically. You can't really fight against the Common Sense in that regard.
The only time reality gets overwritten or changes in any meaningful way is if something extremely powerful and alien is actively working to do so, like ORT.
Thanks for breaking that down in detail, that is helpful for contextualizing these concepts.
Hmm, I do get what you're going for here, but it does feel very similar to what one of the afflicted characters notes regarding reality just in reverse, though I may lack the eloquence to explain it, thanks regardless!
Informative stuff as always, fallacies. I find the rendering of Bounded Fields as 'Shields' weird, due to being used to seeing 'em as 'magic barrior, not always solid' in fanfic or official media, whereas shield implies solidity. Otherwise the changes are rather neutral for me, as I haven't played TsukiRe yet.
The literal, actual most appropriate English rendition of the word would be 'Ward' as is mentioned in the alternate translations, but...it doesn't quite get across the same nuances of "often actively deployed" that you get with the untranslated term. ...The common fandom version works well enough for being an approximation of that, I guess, but you only have to take one look at 'Bounded Field' to admit that it's both clunky as hell and entirely uninformative at first glance.
Further commentary on "Source" as a translation for 根源 (kongen, lit. "root") in the Tsukimates translation of Tsukihime Remake:
This is obviously hearsay, but supposing that this is the case, it coincides with Petrikow's provided rationale for the translation:
Tsukimates Glossary said:
Literally 'root' (根) + 'wellspring' (源). This is another major deviation from standard fandom translations. It may seem strange to think, but 'root' has probably been a pretty major misinterpretation of this term. The most practical reason it has been changed is because the one scene it's brought up in makes it clear that this concept is meant to be interpreted as a sort of water-like thing. This is the reason why this 'swirl' (渦, literally: 'whirlpool') word is applied to it all the time (in this translation, rendered as 'maelstrom') and why its described as 'flowing'. You might wonder something along the lines of: "Isn't this just some peculiarity with how its used here in TsukiRE? After all, aside from 'whirl' (渦), it doesn't have that many water-like metaphors applied to it." The truth is: this is how it's first described in any Nasu-work: Kara no Kyoukai. Here the metaphor extends even further, involving rivers and dripping and all manners of watery terminology. So while originally simply considered as a way of correcting this metaphor in Tsukihime, as it turns out, this was the metaphor intended for the term all along. This is why it is now 'source' (as in, water source, etc), instead of 'root'.
Ergo, "there is watery imagery, therefore 'the Source.'"
Does that actually stand up to what happens within the main bit of monologue in which 根源 shows up?
Let's have a look at that scene again:
「すべての事象には大本になった原因、絶対の一がある。
「For all phenomena, there exists a cause (原因, gen'in) what becomes as a basis (大本, oomoto); an absolute '一.'
この宇宙のはじまりにしておしまいの地点。
The place where this Universe begins and ends.
そこには『全てを記録したモノ』がある。
There, there exists 『that which [commits] all to record』.
記録というよりは『有る』ものだから、情報とは呼べない。
On account that it's more an 『existence』 and [less something that can be] called a record, it cannot be described as information.
ただ『有る』だけ。
It's merely 『existence』 alone.
それ自体に意思はないし、方向性もありえない。
This itself is absent of consciousness, and likewise cannot [bear] a Directionality (方向性, houkousei).
原因を垂れ流しているだけの、根源の渦みたいなものね」
It's an existence alike to a Swirl of the Root (根源の渦, kongen no uzu, lit. "swirl / maelstrom of the root source"), which merely discharges causes.」
「この宇宙にあるものは、その渦から流れ、派生して、今のカタチに行き着いたわ。
「[All] which exists within this Universe [does] in derivation; in flowing [forth] from this swirl arrive as of its present form.
わたしも志貴も、吸血種も人間も、もとはそこから始まった原子にすぎない。
For both I and Shiki — both Vampiric Breed and humanity — [our] bases are as nothing more than atoms (原子, genshi) that there began.
……もう離れすぎ、複雑になりすぎてしまって、原因である始まりに戻ることはできないけど、とにかくそういった『一』があるのは分かるでしょう？」
... [on account of having come to be] too far separated and excessively complex, the matter of returning to the beginning that is as the cause cannot be attained, but you comprehend in any case that such a 『一』 exists, [yes]?」
「でもね、たとえどんなに大本からかけ離れたカタチになっても、派生した存在である以上、とても細い線だけど糸はつながっているのよ」
「That said, irrelevant [the extent] that the form assumed is separated from the basis, by virtue of being a derivative existence, a connection [persists], even that it's just a thin thread.」
「全ての根源、全ての始まりと終わりを記録したレコード。
「The Root of All (全ての根源, subete no kongen); the record what documents the beginning and end of everything.
それと繋がっているものは、物事の終わりを『識っている』事になる。
That which connects to such comes to 『apprehend』 (識っている, shitteiru) the end of things.
高等動物の脳は受信と送信をつかさどる機能なんだけど、たいていの人間はその回線が自分に対してのみで閉じてしまっている。
Though the brains of higher-order animals [bear] the functionality (機能, kinou) as to administrate (つかさどる, tsukasadoru) reception (受信, jushin) and transmission (送信, soushin), the majority of humans have to themselves alone closed that Channel (回線, channel).
けど、中には潜在的に回線が開いている人間もいる。
However, amongst [these], there also exist humans who [bear] latently open Channels.
なんの魔術回路も利用せず、超越種でさえないのに超常現象を可能とする人間」
Humans who render render as possible supernatural phenomena absent the use of any thaumaturgical circuits; absent even of being of the Transcendent Kind (超越種, choetsu-shu).」
「For all phenomena, there exists a cause what becomes as a basis; an absolute '一.'
The place where this Universe begins and ends.
There, there exists 『that which [commits] all to record』.
On account that it's more an 『existence』 and [less something that can be] called a record, it cannot be described as information.
It's merely 『existence』 alone.
This itself is absent of consciousness, and likewise cannot [bear] a Directionality.
It's an existence alike to a Swirl of the Root, which merely discharges causes.」
「[All] which exists within this Universe [does] in derivation; in flowing [forth] from this swirl arrive as of its present form.
For both I and Shiki — both Vampiric Breed and humanity — [our] bases are as nothing more than atoms that there began.
... [on account of having come to be] too far separated and excessively complex, the matter of returning to the beginning that is as the cause cannot be attained, but you comprehend in any case that such a 『一』 exists, [yes]?」
「That said, irrelevant [the extent] that the form assumed is separated from the basis, by virtue of being a derivative existence, a connection [persists], even that it's just a thin thread.」
「The Root of All; the record what documents the beginning and end of everything.
That which connects to such comes to 『apprehend』 the end of things.
Though the brains of higher-order animals [bear] the functionality as to administrate reception and transmission, the majority of humans have to themselves alone closed that Channel.
However, amongst [these], there also exist humans who [bear] latently open Channels.
Humans who render render as possible supernatural phenomena absent the use of any thaumaturgical circuits; absent even of being of the Transcendent Kind.」
根源 occurs a total of 4 times within the entirety of the game script.
Of these, 2 occurrences are unrelated to the notion of 『 』.
The other 2 appear within the monologue above:
全ての根源、全ての始まりと終わりを記録したレコード。
The Root of All (全ての根源, subete no kongen); the record what documents the beginning and end of everything.
原因を垂れ流しているだけの、根源の渦みたいなものね」
It's an existence alike to a Swirl of the Root (根源の渦, kongen no uzu, lit. "swirl / maelstrom of the root source"), which merely discharges causes.
Relevantly, the instances in which things that might be interpreted as 'watery imagery' occurs as an explanation for 根源, at least within this scene:
原因を垂れ流している
discharges (垂れ流し, tarenagashi, "discharge" as in the sense of waste fluid) causes
根源の渦
Swirl (渦, kongen, lit. "swirl / maelstrom") of the Root
その渦から流れ
flowing (流れ, nagare) [forth] from this swirl (渦, kongen, lit. "swirl / maelstrom")
In sum, of the 4 occurrences of 根源 in the game, there are 3 instances of "watery imagery" associated with one particular use in relation to the notion of 『 』, and 0 associated with the 1 other occurrence.
Is that a lot? I dunno. Your mileage may vary.
For what it's worth, this sort of language has indeed always been used in conjunction with the notion of 根源, what with Touko terming it as 泉 (izumi, "Wellspring") in Mahoyo.
Even as the collective definition provided by Kotobank for the homonymous synonyms 根源 and 根元 does indeed mention the sense of "fountainhead," personally, I wouldn't be inclined to translate 根源 as such if provided with the word in a vacuum.
At least, 3 more instances of 'watery imagery' aren't in my opinion justification to overturn a standardized translation that's been used for years within the community.
Is this an attempt to build an inherent crossover with DC Comics, where the Source is the local equivalent to the Root or something?
EDIT:
Further notes on the translation of 神秘 (shinpi, lit. "mystery"):
It's been argued that "Mystic" is justified as a translation on account that "Mystic Code" has been used for a substantial amount of time within the community. This isn't valid.
In Complete Material III, "Mystic Code" (ミスティックコード) was given by Nasu himself as a pronunciation for 魔術礼装 (majutsu reisou) — "Thaumaturgical Formal Wear." Whereas "Code" in this context was a pronunciation assigned to 礼装 (reisou, "formal dress"), "Mystic" corresponds with 魔術 (majutsu, "magecraft"), and not 神秘 (shinpi).
Likewise, even that the kanji that comprise 神秘 (shinpi) are 神 (shin) and 秘 (hi) — "god" and "secret" respectively — "Divine Mystery" is not a valid translation, as within-context, the existence of a 神秘 doesn't necessitate the involvement of anything divine.
You'd only arrive at "Divine Mystery" if you were to look up each of the kanji independently, rather than just looking up 神秘 as term.
This is frankly a nonsensical way of translating Japanese terminology.
If we were to apply the same method of translation to 神父 (shinpu, "Father" as a title for a Catholic priest), it would render as "divine / god father."
英霊 (eirei, "Heroic Spirit") renders as "English spirit."
英雄王 (eiyuu-ou, "King of Heroes") renders as "king of English males."
My predictions for the next arc are: [...] Sion as the guest character (if not, return of Zepia), lore of Atlas similar to the lore on the Wandering Sea for this arc [...]
Legacy of the Alchemist (part 1)
Release date: August 19th
Translated summary by Comun on Beast Lair said:
After the case in Japan, El-Melloi II's party was invited to Egypt.
What waited them there was a second Library of Alexandria, supposedly lost to time. And the collaborative excavation team of Atlas and the Clock Tower went to explore the Library.
It was decided that El-Melloi II and Gray had to join the exploration team to solve a mysterious incident, while Ergo and Rin were faced with another young Atlas alchemist, Sion.
Volume 4 of The Adventures of Lord El-Melloi II, mixing desert and ocean, Age of Gods and present age.
＠モルガン
@ Morgan
……しかし。『異邦の魔術師』。
... however. 『Magus of a Foreign Land』.
まだ幼い少女よ。
O child who is yet small.
異聞帯という隔絶世界において、
As of the sequestered World (隔絶世界, kakuzetsu sekai) called as an Apocryphal Belt,
これだけの力を発揮する術式は、異常だ。
A spell protocol what can exercise strength to such a degree is — aberrant.
……この先、機会を得る時があるのなら、
... hereforth, if opportunity permits the leisure,
もう一度、原初の因果に立ち返るがいい。
let that you return to the inciting causality (原初の因果, gensho no inga).
カルデアとは何なのか。
[So as to determine] what [precisely] Chaldea is;
レイシフトとは、何のために用意されたものなのかを。
the purpose to which Rayshifting was prepared.
@ Morgan
... however. 『Magus of a Foreign Land』.
O child who is yet small.
As of the sequestered World called as an Apocryphal Belt,
A spell protocol what can exercise strength to such a degree is — aberrant.
... hereforth, if opportunity permits the leisure,
let that you return to the inciting causality.
[So as to determine] what [precisely] Chaldea is;
the purpose to which Rayshifting was prepared.
LB6 once again points at the fact that the intention behind rayshifting technology is suspicious, what with it being potentially possible to change history if an iteration of the entity rayshifted exists at destination — even that Roman and da Vinci have been claiming all the while that rayshifting cannot in fact impose permanent alterations to history.
Extella Material informs us that QTLs obstruct substantial alterations to history unless the agent of the change qualifies as "a human alive in the current era."
Whether or not QTLs exist as of the environment of LB6 is of course unknown; and being a faerie, it's unknown that Morgan-as-Tonelico in fact qualifies as the equivalent of "a human alive in the current era" within said environment.
However, on account that rayshifting is only otherwise mentioned in LB6 as a means of explaining the method by which Morgan changed the past, I would presume that similar circumstances apply, and that she effectively attained a circumvention of applicable restrictions.
That being the case, we can sum up our present understanding of Animusphere's intentions with rayshifting as follows:
As of Singularity F, it was established that once secured by an agent, Grails can be transported via rayshift (summoned) to Chaldea without issue.
Subsequently, it was established that in the normal outward rayshifting (unsummoning) of human agents, the absence of "observers" in the present can result in the agent being rejected from the era of destination by the Corrective Force and potent dying, etc.
Dr. Roman stated early on that as the Corrective Force removes changes rendered by a rayshifted agent, rayshifting cannot be considered a variety of time travel that can actually change the past.
Singularities in general effect the overturning of a QTL by the use of a Grail. Based on what we know from Extella and Extella Material, this would presumably entail an interference being imposed upon all the timelines extant as of the era of a QTL, where the contents of the era are substituted by the dictates of the holder of a Grail. It appears that the Counter Force / Corrective Force is incapable of independently purging a Grail presently engaged in the maintenance of a Singularity.
As of Accel Zero Order and the Prisma event, it was established that for primarily spiritual existences such as Einzbern homunculi, one-way rayshifting in the manner of a Star Trek teleporter can be rendered, similar to the one-way transportation of Grails. This would theoretically account for the transport of primarily spiritual existences such as Ascension materials. (We know from El-Melloi Case Files that materials of spiritual potency / potency of Mystery derived from Phantasmals were in the past utilized in the creation of Crests. Presumably, Ascension materials are of a similar nature?)
In Karna's Interlude, it was established that da Vinci was able to develop a means as to transport non-spiritual existences such as food supplies or ingredients via a specially-created bag.
As of Salomon, it was established that Goetia sidestepped the general restriction against interference within a QTL per the creation of the 72 Houses — effectively rendering agents that we can surmise to qualify as "humans alive in the current era" in every era he intended to target. This was framed as a vast undertaking that wouldn't normally be possible. Specifically, it seems that Goetia wasn't interested in actually revising the timeline of the Human Order; and so, rather than changing history, he just replaced the QTL of the Human Order Foundations with nonsense data as to render defunct the Human Order itself.
As of the QSH interlude, we find that the outward rayshifting (unsummoning) of Grails can be used to create Singularities to the purpose of overturning QTLs — effectively sidestepping the necessity of Goetia's 3000-year undertaking. Moreover, unlike Goetia, QSH's intentions in doing so were as to actually implement revisions to the Greater History of the Human Order.
As of LB6, we find that Morgan was able to change history by rayshifting into a past iteration of herself. Again, we don't know that Morgan-as-Tonelico qualifies as the equivalent of "a human alive in the current era," or that something along the lines of QTL was in fact implemented within the environment of LB6. Further, it's uncertain as to how it was precisely that Morgan-the-Avalon-le-Fae would qualify as a close enough analogue to the Heroic Spirit Morgan of the Greater History that the former could for purposes of rayshifting be considered "the same existence as the latter" — but, Morgan is also a genius magus, so ... Supposing that Morgan's techniques can be generalized for use with any Heroic Spirit, rayshifting Servants into their own bodies within their own lifetimes can potentially render a means as to overturn QTL without the use of Grails (ignoring the displacement of the human Nero that occurred in Nero Interlude II).
To this end, we know as of LB3 that Lord Animusphere personally recruited Yu Meiren, who has been alive for more than 2000 years. Hypothetically, she could've become an agent with which to overturn any QTL within the span of her lifetime?
In LB3, Koyanskaya gives that Yu Meiren was recruited to Chaldea as to participate in rayshift experiments. With the establishment of the FATE System and the Demi-Servant Project, Koyanskaya says, it was no longer necessary for Lord Animusphere to make use of Yu Meiren in such a capacity. Per Tonelico, are Demi-Servants able to qualify as "the same existence" as the Heroic Spirits they host, for purposes of rayshifting?
As of the Slapstick Museum White Day Event in 2021, it was long established that the variety of Grails normally discovered to sustain Singularities are in essence high-density gatherings or crystalizations of mana. It isn't therefore a surprise that da Vinci was able to more recently develop a means as to mint Grails.
As of Salomon, it was established that in 2004, Lord Animusphere had enough of a grasp of the future that he was able to anticipate his own death in roughly a decade. Further, the CHALDEAS is known to be capable of looking about a century into the future at maximum during normal operation. It isn't a stretch to presume that Lord Animusphere would've therefore been aware that Chaldea could with ample resources and time develop a means as to mint Grails.
Ergo, it isn't a huge stretch to imagine that Lord Animusphere was at his death securing a means as to overturn QTLs to a higher degree of freedom than what Goetia attained.
Supposing that he could've successfully implemented the minting of Grails, the summoning of Heroic Spirits via the FATE System, and / or the Demi-Servant project, overwriting the Greater History of Man would've been well within reach.
If something along the lines of Morgan-as-Tonelico can be achieved within the environment of the Human Order, he might not have even needed to abuse Grails to the purpose of establishing Singularities as QSH intended.
As of LB6.5, Chaldea already bears the hypothetical capability to overwrite the Greater History utilizing the method that QSH proposed.
Not to mention, the Shadow Border was originally built to render physical transport to other time periods like a traditional time machine ...
For purposes of reference, the relevant bit of the Karna Interlude, on da Vinci's bag:
＠ダ・ヴィンチ
@ da Vinci
いやー、それがついに小麦が底をついてね。
Well, you see, our flour has finally bottomed out.
ロマンも無駄遣いするなって。
Roman also told us not to waste it.
そうだ、この際だから新しい仕入れルートを開拓しよう！
Ah, yes. On account of the circumstances, let's develop a new route for procurement!
当然協力してくれるよね？
You'll assist me in this, yes?
いい小麦を売っているのはフランスのここらへんだから。
Because hereabouts in France, they sell quality wheat.
このダ・ヴィンチちゃん収納袋に詰めてくれれば、
If you can pack it for me into this da Vinci-chan Storage Bag,
作物ぐらいはなんとかカルデアに持ち帰れる。
[something] along the lines of produce can after a fashion be brought back to Chaldea.
本来ならシバとカルデアスをうまく誤作動させて、
Originally, per a skillful misuse (誤作動, go-sadou, "malfunction") of SHEBA and the CHALDEAS,
レイシフト先の資源を実体化させるんだけど……
resources from the rayshift destination could be materialized, but ...
こんな事でカルデアスを使ったらそれこそカルデアの備蓄がなくなる。
Supposing that the CHALDEAS were utilized to such an end, Chaldea's resources would be depleted.
収支が合わない、というヤツさ。
It's [a circumstance where] we wouldn't be able to break even.
だからこういう時はこう、小さく細やかなズルをしなくちゃいけないワケ。
In other words, in times like this, we can't but engage in a little bit of cheating.
@ da Vinci
Well, you see, our flour has finally bottomed out.
Roman also told us not to waste it.
Ah, yes. On account of the circumstances, let's develop a new route for procurement!
You'll assist me in this, yes?
Because hereabouts in France, they sell quality wheat.
If you can pack it for me into this da Vinci-chan Storage Bag,
[something] along the lines of produce can after a fashion be brought back to Chaldea.
Originally, per a skillful misuse of SHEBA and the CHALDEAS,
resources from the rayshift destination could be materialized, but ...
Supposing that the CHALDEAS were utilized to such an end, Chaldea's resources would be depleted.
It's [a circumstance where] we wouldn't be able to break even.
In other words, in times like this, we can't but engage in a little bit of cheating.
This was rendered to English localization as such:
FGO NA said:
Da Vinci
Well, we finally used up all the flour we had.
Dr. Roman also told us not to waste it.
I got it. Let's use this chance to procure a new supply route!
Of course you will help me, right? They sell good flour in France, around here.
If you can stuff it into my special Da Vinci Storage Bag,
you should be able to bring back some crops to Chaldea.
Normally, we'd purposely realign Chaldeas to manifest resources from our Rayshift destination but...
Using Chaldea like that would truly deplete our resources... It just doesn't balance out.
So in times like this, we need cheat a little.
'Bounded field' is one of the coolest pieces of fantasy terminology ever put to page. As far as Type-Moon stuff goes it's up there with 'Noble Phantasm' and 'magic circuit.'
On the concept of Kodoku and the Grail War in its most reduced expression:
The concept of "kodoku" has been invoked quite a number of times in recent FGO.
I figured that it would be helpful to gather the relevant information in one place and discuss it a bit.
In real life superstition, gu (蠱) / kodoku (蠱毒, lit. "gu poison") refers to a type of poison associated with folk shamanism in East Asia.
The variant referenced in Nasu is described on Wikipedia as follows:
Wikipedia said:
The second gu meaning "anciently recorded type of artificially cultured poisonous wug" names the survivor of several venomous creatures enclosed in a container, and transformed into a type of demon or spirit.
The Zhouli ritual text (秋官司寇) describes a Shushi 庶氏 official who, "was charged with the duty of exterminating poisonous ku, attacking this with spells and thus exorcising it, as also with the duty of attacking it with efficacious herbs; all persons able to fight ku he was to employ according to their capacities." Zheng Xuan's commentary explains dugu 毒蠱 "poisonous gu" as "wugs that cause sickness in people".
＠ダ・ヴィンチちゃん
@ da Vinci-chan
その特異点の構造……というか、造られた目的を解析できた。
I've [completed] the analysis on the structure of the Singularity ... or rather, the purpose for which it was created.
よく聞いてほしい、その空間はサーヴァントを集めてより純度の高い霊基を鋳造するための、いわゆる儀式用魔術回路に近い空間だ。
I'd like for you to listen closely. That space was [wrought] to the purpose of accumulating Servants as to cast a Saint Graph of relatively higher purity — a space proximate to what might be called a Ritual-Use (儀式用, gishiki-you, "ceremonial use") Thaumaturgical Circuit.
＠織田信勝（ノッブIN）
@ Oda Nobukatsu (Nobbu-IN)
なるほどのう……、蠱毒というわけか。
I see ... In other words, kodoku (蠱毒, lit. "gu poison")?
＠D：織田信勝
@ Oda Nobukatsu
知っているんですか、姉上！？
You know of this, Sister!?
＠ダ・ヴィンチちゃん
@ da Vinci-chan
ふむ。蠱毒とは、壺のなかに沢山の毒虫や毒蛇を入れて殺し合いをさせ、生き残ったものを呪術につかう東洋の魔術の事だね。
Fumu. Kodoku would refer the Oriental magecraft wherein poisonous insects and snakes are heaped within a pot and made to kill each other, [such that] that which survives is utilized in cursecraft (呪術, jujutsu), yes?
いい例えだ。
It's a good comparison.
＠織田信勝（ノッブIN）
@ Oda Nobukatsu (Nobbu-IN)
つまり、この場合サーヴァントを殺し合わせてより純度の高い霊基を得るのが目的というわけじゃ。
That is to say, the objective is to acquire a Saint Graph of relatively higher purity per the [battle royale] of the Servants here gathered.
それゆえ大量のサーヴァントによる聖杯戦争が必要だったわけじゃな。
On this account, a Grail War [held with] a large count of Servants was necessary.
＠ダ・ヴィンチちゃん
@ da Vinci-chan
しかも、こちらの観測ではその空間、そのために何度も聖杯戦争を『繰り返して』いる。
Moreover, per our observations from over on this side, that space was to that purpose [utilized as to enact] Grail Wars 『in repetition』.
@ da Vinci-chan
I've [completed] the analysis on the structure of the Singularity ... or rather, the purpose for which it was created.
I'd like for you to listen closely. That space was [wrought] to the purpose of accumulating Servants as to cast a Saint Graph of relatively higher purity — a space proximate to what might be called a Ritual-Use (儀式用, gishiki-you, "ceremonial use") Thaumaturgical Circuit.
@ Oda Nobukatsu (Nobbu-IN)
I see ... In other words, kodoku (蠱毒, lit. "gu poison")?
@ Oda Nobukatsu
You know of this, Sister!?
@ da Vinci-chan
Fumu. Kodoku would refer the Oriental magecraft wherein poisonous insects and snakes are heaped within a pot and made to kill each other, [such that] that which survives is utilized in cursecraft (呪術, jujutsu), yes?
It's a good comparison.
@ Oda Nobukatsu (Nobbu-IN)
That is to say, the objective is to acquire a Saint Graph of relatively higher purity per the [battle royale] of the Servants here gathered.
On this account, a Grail War [held with] a large count of Servants was necessary.
@ da Vinci-chan
Moreover, per our observations from over on this side, that space was to that purpose [utilized as to enact] Grail Wars 『in repetition』.
Da Vinci
I figured out the structure of that Singularity...or rather, why it was made in the first place.
Listen closely. That entire area is designed to collect Servants and produce pure Spirit Origins.
It's more like a magical circuit used for magecraft rituals than anything else.
Choices
It collects Servants?
Pure Spirit Origins?
Oda Nobukatsu (with Nobbu)
Now I see... It's a kodoku.
Oda Nobukatsu
You know about it, Sister!?
Da Vinci
Hmm, interesting. A kodoku is old Eastern magecraft that involves filling a pot with venomous snakes or insects and having them kill each other.
The mage then uses the fluids of the one creature that survived to cast a curse. What an excellent analogy.
Oda Nobukatsu (with Nobbu)
Basically, whoever's behind this is having Servants kill each other to get their hands on extremely pure Spirit Origins.
That's why they needed a Holy Grail War with so many different Servants fighting each other.
Da Vinci
And if that wasn't bad enough, from what we've observed, they've actually conducted a great many Holy Grail Wars there.
On the face of it, a battle royale amongst Servants as to secure a wish is more or less comparable to a competition between poisonous insects wherein the sole survivor cultivates an unrivaled poison.
Note, however, that there's something of a deviation in nuance: A wish obtained by a Servant in a Grail War is granted by an external agent, whereas in kodoku, the poison / curse of the survivor escalates in concentration without external intervention as the process draws to completion.
Whatever the difference between these two, it stands that the successive Grail Wars in GudaGuda 1945 could be utilized in the implementation of kodoku; as to render the casting of "a Saint Graph of greater purity." That is to say, irrelevant the matter of an external agent, there's enough of an overlap that Nasu et al. are willing to fudge the distinction between the processes and maybe classify them as more or less the same thing.
＠マーリン
@ Merlin
クー・フーリン・オルタ。
Cú Chulainn Alter.
キミは彼らの共食いをどう考える？
What's your opinion of [the monsters'] cannibalism?
＠クー・フーリン・オルタ
@ Cú Chulainn Alter
共食いで数が減るのは、当然こちらとしてもありがたい。
I of course appreciate that cannibalism has reduced their numbers.
だが……。
However ...
＠マーリン
@ Merlin
ああ、そうだ。
Aah, indeed.
共食いと言ってしまったせいで見逃してしまいそうだが。
Though it would seem that we've overlooked this on account of having labelled it as cannibalism, 生存競争、勝ち残るのは一体。
[in their] competition to survive, a single entity shall persist as the victor.
つまりそれは、『我々にとって馴染み深いものだ』。
That is to say, this is 『something with which we're well acquainted』
1：聖杯戦争……？
1: A Grail War ... ?
＠E：マイケル
@ Michael
……そうか、共食いが聖杯を顕現させるための、儀式になってしまっているのか……！
... I see. The cannibalism is [incidentally] become as a ritual to the purpose of manifesting the Holy Grail, is it ... !?
＠アルジュナ・オルタ
@ Arjuna Alter
……いえ、なってしまったのではなく。
... no, it may not be a matter of it [incidentally] becoming [as such].
もしかすると意図的なのかもしれません。
Perhaps it's intentional.
さもなければ、今まで共食いをしなかった理由が分からない。
Otherwise, [we wouldn't have an explanation] as to why they haven't until now [engaged] in cannibalism.
＠パラケルスス
@ Paracelsus
……。
...
……聖杯の顕現を行うための儀式、ですか。
... A ritual to the purpose of rendering the manifestation of a Holy Grail, is it?
＠E：マイケル
@ Michael
どうした？
What of it?
＠パラケルスス
@ Paracelsus
聖杯戦争……
A War for the Holy Grail ...
それを彼らはどこで知ったのでしょう？
From where did they come to know of this?
仮に、先刻までの我々が行っていた、擬似的な聖杯戦争を模倣しているにしては、共食いという行為には些か無理がある。
If hypothetically, they were [acting] in imitation of the ersatz Grail War we were conducting up until a short while earlier, it's a bit unreasonable that they'd effect the behavior of cannibalism.
我々は、本当に戦ってはいませんし……
We didn't actually battle ...
殺害も捕食も行っていない。
Likewise, we didn't kill or engage in predation.
となると、むしろ彼らは……
If that be so, wouldn't it rather [be the case] that they ...
『聖杯が顕現する仕組みを知っていたのではないか』。
『comprehend the mechanism by which a Grail is rendered to materialization』?
自ら数を減らし、最後には我々を襲い、殲滅することで、聖杯戦争という儀式を、真に成立させるつもりなのでは。
[Ergo], is it not their intention to thin out their numbers before ultimately assailing us — legitimately establishing the ritual called as the War for the Holy Grail per our annihilation?
＠メドゥーサ
@ Medusa
……道理は通っていますが、それは前提としてあの魔獣たちが……。
... the logic stands, but your premise would entail that those beasts ...
＠ネモ
@ Nemo
『想像以上に賢い』という前提、ということだね。
The premise would entail that [they bear] 『a wisdom beyond our imagination』, you mean?
サメかと思ったら、むしろシャチだ。
[That we] presumed them [akin] to sharks, but that they were rather orca.
あの魔獣、そういう知恵があると思う？
You believe that those beasts hold such a [degree] of wisdom?
＠E：マイケル
@ Michael
……ある、だろうな。
... perhaps they do.
そもそも私が思うに……。
To begin with, I would suppose ...
死んだ例の魔術師は暴走したとか言っていたけれど。
The magus who died stated that they went out of control.
それはつまり、『知恵を与えすぎたから』じゃないだろうか。
Ergo, would it not perhaps be the case that 『that's on account that they were bestowed with excessive wisdom』?
＠P：アルジュナ・オルタ
@ Arjuna Alter
知恵を与えられ、力を与えられ、奪う術を理解し、聖杯を認識した。
Bestowed of wisdom; bestowed of strength, they comprehended the technique as to plunder; apprehended the [existence of] the Holy Grail.
＠パラケルスス
@ Paracelsus
そして今、彼らは我々が殺し合わないと知りーーー
And now, comprehending that we won't engage in a [battle royale] —
聖杯戦争の模倣を実行している。
they're enacting the imitation of a Grail War.
＠クー・フーリン・オルタ
@ Cú Chulainn Alter
放置はできねえな。
This isn't something we can leave alone, is it?
今、聖杯はただ魔力を垂れ流しているだけだ。
At present time, the Grail is just discharging thaumaturgical energy.
それでも充分に危険だが……。
That's dangerous enough [on its own], but ...
オレたちの無血聖杯戦争で、顕現に後一歩のところまで近付いている。
Per our bloodless Grail War, we've come within a single pace of [the Grail's] manifestation.
そして聖杯が顕現すればーーー
And if the Grail were to manifest —
願いを叶える資源となるだろう。
it'll presumably became as a resource to the granting of a wish.
＠織田信勝
@ Oda Nobukatsu
その魔獣の願いって、どんなものかな？
What would those beasts wish for, I wonder?
……いや、やっぱりいい。
... no, [forget that I asked].
嫌な想像しか浮かばない。
Only terrible things come to mind.
＠モードレッド
@ Mordred
繁栄、長寿、強化。
Prosperity, longevity, strength.
人間の俗な欲望ってのは、突き詰めれば生物の本能的な渇望だ。
The baser desires of man are with a bit of probing [nothing more] than the instinctual desires of living organisms.
知恵が回り始めたこいつらは、間違いなくそれを願う。
These [creatures], whose wisdom has just begun to function, would without a mistake desire [the above].
で、願いを叶えた結果ーーー大惨事が起きるだろうさ。
That being the case, per the outcome granted by their wish — a catastrophe would arise.
繁栄し、強化されたこいつらは、さらに知恵を回し始める。
[Obtained of] prosperity and strength, their wisdom would begin to further revolve.
そして間違いなくこう考えるさ。
Thereafter, they would without a mistake think as follows:
『この星に、自分たち以外の知的生命体の存在を許してはならない』
『Upon this star, the existence of sapient organisms aside from ourselves is impermissible —』
『なぜなら、この星は我々が支配するべきだからだ』
『for the star was meant to be ruled by us.』
＠メドゥーサ
@ Medusa
ＳＦホラー顔負けですね。
Eclipsed by SF Horror, hm?
しかし、恐らく合っています。
But in all likelihood, you're right.
さて、現状は大方把握できました。
In any case, we have a rough grasp of the present circumstances.
議論を一歩前に進めましょう。
Let's move the discussion a step forward.
……どうやって倒します？
... how are we to defeat them?
＠アルジュナ・オルタ
@ Arjuna Alter
そのことについて、もう一つ事実の提示を。
With regards to that, I'd like to put forth one other fact.
メドゥーサ、確か魔獣を仕留めた際、あなたは力を奪われたのですね？
Medusa. Just to confirm, as of defeating that beast, you were plundered of your strength, yes?
＠メドゥーサ
@ Medusa
ええ。
Indeed.
＠アルジュナ・オルタ
@ Arjuna Alter
そしてそれを悪用した彼らは、著しく劣化した石化の魔眼を発動させた。
Thereon, abusing this, they were able to activate a substantially degraded [version of your] Mystic Eyes of Petrification.
＠カルナ
@ Karna
オレとアルジュナが撃退した魔獣も、やはり魔眼を使用したがーーー
As expected, the beasts that Arjuna and I repelled did likewise made use of Mystic Eyes, but —
『その力が強化されていた』。
『their potency was reinforced』.
＠メドゥーサ
@ Medusa
……まさか。
... it can't be.
＠アルジュナ・オルタ
@ Arjuna Alter
はい、最悪の想像ですが。
Indeed. Though it would be [a worst case scenario],
『彼らは共食いをすることで、奪った能力すらも強化し合っている』。
『per their cannibalism, they're collectively reinforcing even their plundered capabilities』.
＠パラケルスス
@ Paracelsus
可能性はあります。
The possibility exists.
あくまで仮定ではありますが、
It's at most a hypothesis, but
『広く薄まった神秘を、狭めて濃くしている』
『a broadly diffuse Mystery is being condensed to concentration.』
……というあたりでしょうか。
... somewhere thereabouts, perhaps?
＠モードレッド
@ Mordred
強くなるってのがマズい。
It's bad that they've gotten stronger.
最悪にマズい。
The worst sort of bad.
それこそ東洋の蠱毒のようなモンだろ。
I suppose it's something along the lines of the kodoku of the Orient.
@ Merlin
Cú Chulainn Alter.
What's your opinion of [the monsters'] cannibalism?
@ Cú Chulainn Alter
I of course appreciate that cannibalism has reduced their numbers.
However ...
@ Merlin
Aah, indeed.
Though it would seem that we've overlooked this on account of having labelled it as cannibalism,
[in their] competition to survive, a single entity shall persist as the victor.
That is to say, this is 『something with which we're well acquainted』
1: A Grail War ... ?
@ Michael
... I see. The cannibalism is [incidentally] become as a ritual to the purpose of manifesting the Holy Grail, is it ... !?
@ Arjuna Alter
... no, it may not be a matter of it [incidentally] becoming [as such].
Perhaps it's intentional.
Otherwise, [we wouldn't have an explanation] as to why they haven't until now [engaged] in cannibalism.
@ Paracelsus
...
... A ritual to the purpose of rendering the manifestation of a Holy Grail, is it?
@ Michael
What of it?
@ Paracelsus
A War for the Holy Grail ...
From where did they come to know of this?
If hypothetically, they were [acting] in imitation of the ersatz Grail War we were conducting up until a short while earlier, it's a bit unreasonable that they'd effect the behavior of cannibalism.
We didn't actually battle ...
Likewise, we didn't kill or engage in predation.
If that be so, wouldn't it rather [be the case] that they ...
『comprehend the mechanism by which a Grail is rendered to materialization』?
[Ergo], is it not their intention to thin out their numbers before ultimately assailing us — legitimately establishing the ritual called as the War for the Holy Grail per our annihilation?
@ Medusa
... the logic stands, but your premise would entail that those beasts ...
@ Nemo
The premise would entail that [they bear] 『a wisdom beyond our imagination』, you mean?
[That we] presumed them [akin] to sharks, but that they were rather orca.
You believe that those beasts hold such a [degree] of wisdom?
@ Michael
... perhaps they do.
To begin with, I would suppose ...
The magus who died stated that they went out of control.
Ergo, would it not perhaps be the case that 『that's on account that they were bestowed with excessive wisdom』?
@ Arjuna Alter
Bestowed with wisdom; bestowed with strength, they comprehended the technique as to plunder; apprehended the [existence of] the Holy Grail.
@ Paracelsus
And now, comprehending that we won't engage in a [battle royale] —
they're enacting the imitation of a Grail War.
@ Cú Chulainn Alter
This isn't something we can leave alone, is it?
At present time, the Grail is just discharging thaumaturgical energy.
That's dangerous enough [on its own], but ...
Per our bloodless Grail War, we've come within a single pace of [the Grail's] manifestation.
And if the Grail were to manifest —
it'll presumably became as a resource to the granting of a wish.
@ Oda Nobukatsu
What would those beasts wish for, I wonder?
... no, [forget that I asked].
Only terrible things come to mind.
@ Mordred
Prosperity, longevity, strength.
The baser desires of man are with a bit of probing [nothing more] than the instinctual desires of living organisms.
These [creatures], whose wisdom has just begun to function, would without a mistake desire [the above].
That being the case, per the outcome granted by their wish — a catastrophe would arise.
[Obtained of] prosperity and strength, their wisdom would begin to further revolve.
Thereafter, they would without a mistake think as follows:
『Upon this star, the existence of sapient organisms aside from ourselves is impermissible —』
『for the star was meant to be ruled by us.』
@ Medusa
Eclipsed by SF Horror, hm?
But in all likelihood, you're right.
In any case, we have a rough grasp of the present circumstances.
Let's move the discussion a step forward.
... how are we to defeat them?
@ Arjuna Alter
With regards to that, I'd like to put forth one other fact.
Medusa. Just to confirm, as of defeating that beast, you were plundered of your strength, yes?
@ Medusa
Indeed.
@ Arjuna Alter
Thereon, abusing this, they were able to activate a substantially degraded [version of your] Mystic Eyes of Petrification.
@ Karna
As expected, the beasts that Arjuna and I repelled did likewise made use of Mystic Eyes, but —
『their potency was reinforced』.
@ Medusa
... it can't be.
@ Arjuna Alter
Indeed. Though it would be [a worst case scenario],
『per their cannibalism, they're collectively reinforcing even their plundered capabilities』.
@ Paracelsus
The possibility exists.
It's at most a hypothesis, but
『a broadly diffuse Mystery is being condensed to concentration.』
... somewhere thereabouts, perhaps?
@ Mordred
It's bad that they've gotten stronger.
The worst sort of bad.
I suppose it's something along the lines of the kodoku of the Orient.
Note that in the White Day Event, the Grail that sustains the Singularity is of uncertain origin, and isn't under the direct administration of the Invisible Enemies at any point.
To the purpose of rendering the descent / manifestation of the Grail, the Grail War assembled by the Invisible Enemies was an implementation of kodoku — a Grail War without the necessity of a human Master; without the necessity of Servant summoning; fought amongst the Invisible Enemies themselves.
Not only would the final survivor carry the most potent poison / curse, the Grail would manifest before it to grant its wish.
To clarify, the Master of Chaldea was present alongside a number of Servants, but the ones not rayshifted from Chaldea were brought forth by the Counter Force rather than the Grail.
Within the context of the Invisible Enemies' Grail War, they counted amongst the participants that had to be eliminated to render the manifestation of the Grail; but ultimately, they were merely interlopers. Possibly, the Grail War could've proceeded entirely absent of their involvement.
If we take into consideration the other "non-violent" Grail Wars exhibited during this event — which amongst other things included a team-based quiz battle and a game of tag — we arrive upon an entirely different characterization of a Grail War that what we've become accustomed to:
Human involvement is not a necessity.
Masters are not a necessity.
The summoning of Servants is not a necessity.
Combat between Servants is not a necessity.
The administration of a Grail by any of the participants is not necessary.
That is, it's necessary only that competition between participants occurs — and / or enters into the apprehension of the Grail that administrates the War.
Actually, considering that the Grails that appear in FGO are often merely high-density crystallizations of mana, and the completion of a kodoku entails an accumulation of the strength / potency / energy within a single entity as the participants eliminate one another, it may be the case that in a truly minimum expression of a Grail War, a Grail itself doesn't necessarily need to exist at outset.
To rephrase, a kodoku pot prepared with insects that carry mana can qualify as a bare-bones rendition of a Grail War.
But hold on a second. Doesn't that sound a bit familiar?
ベリル・ガットは人間社会から隠れ住む『母』から、様々な呪術を教わった。
Beryl Gut was by his 『Mother』 who dwelt in concealment from human society instructed in a variety of cursecraft (呪術, jujutsu).
陰湿な儀式。生き物と生き物を掛け合わせる魔女の壺。
Devious rituals. The witch's pot (魔女の壺, majo no tsubo), [wherein] organisms were with organisms crossed.
基本的に『命を材料にする』それらの術式が、ベリルの人格にどのような影響を与えたかは定かではない。
Whereas these were fundamentally spell protocols what 『made use of life as materials』, it cannot be ascertained as to the manner of influence this may have had upon Beryl's personality.
Beryl Gut was by his 『Mother』 who dwelt in concealment from human society instructed in a variety of cursecraft.
Devious rituals. The witch's pot, [wherein] organisms were with organisms crossed.
Whereas these were fundamentally spell protocols what 『made use of life as materials』, it cannot be ascertained as to the manner of influence this may have had upon Beryl's personality.
掛け合わせる (kake-awaseru) — rendered above as "crossed" — generally refers to breeding, but maybe in this instance, it means something else?
Speaking of a witch's pot, what of a witch's cauldron? Doesn't that sound familiar as well?
神の血を受けた杯。
The chalice what received the blood of God.
最高位の聖遺物であり、持ち主の願いを叶える願望機。
A relic of the highest order; a wish-granting engine what grants the wish of its bearer.
その起源は多くの神話で顔を見せる、『願いを叶える大釜』と言われている。
It's said that it has its origin in 『the wish-granting cauldron』 what makes its appearance in numerous myths.
「Fate」で登場する聖杯はオリジナルではなく、『願望機』として機能するように作られたレプリカである。
The Grail what appears in 「Fate」 is not the original, but a replica created as to function in the capacity of a 『wish-granting engine』.
英霊は地上で破れた後、元の形である「力の一端」に戻り、時間軸から消え去る。
Subsequent the defeat of a Heroic Spirit upon the Surface, they revert to their original form as 「a fragment of power」, and vanish from the time-axis.
それを押し留め、一時的に蓄えるものがアインツベルンの聖杯である。
That what holds this back and temporarily stores it is the Grail of the Einzberns.
その後に続く『孔』を開く儀式は、聖杯ではなく大聖杯が執り行う。
Continuing subsequent, that which executes the ritual as to open a 『perforation』 is not the Grail, but the Greater Grail.
The chalice what received the blood of God.
A relic of the highest order; a wish-granting engine what grants the wish of its bearer.
It's said that it has its origin in 『the wish-granting cauldron』 what makes its appearance in numerous myths.
The Grail what appears in 「Fate」 is not the original, but a replica created as to function in the capacity of a 『wish-granting engine』.
Subsequent the defeat of a Heroic Spirit upon the Surface, they revert to their original form as 「a fragment of power」, and vanish from the time-axis.
That what holds this back and temporarily stores it is the Grail of the Einzberns.
Continuing subsequent, that which executes the ritual as to open a 『perforation』 is not the Grail, but the Greater Grail.
The cup that received the blood of God.
It is one of the greatest holy relics, a wish-granter that fulfills its owner's desires.
It is believed to have its origins in the "wish-granting cauldron" that appears in numerous myths.
The Holy Grail that appears in Fate/stay night is not the original, but rather a replica made to function as a "wish-granter."
When Heroic Spirits are defeated, they return to their original forms as fragments of power and vanish from the time axis.
However, before that can happen the Einzbern Holy Grail intercepts and stores them until the ritual to open the "hole" can be enacted by the Great Holy Grail.
The wish-granting cauldron is a staple of mythology, often portrayed in association with witches.
Perhaps there was some sort of hinting toward a connection with the concept of kodoku from the very start?
That said, what are we to make of this bit from the Southern Dark?
＠ロビンフッド
@ Robin Hood
こりゃぁ愚問でしょうが……
Maybe this is a dumb question, but ...
たった一本の矢が、それほど大事ですかね？
Is a single arrow really that big of a deal?
＠ダ・ヴィンチ
@ da Vinci
あれは言うなれば『蠱毒』だ。
If I were to put it to words, that thing is kodoku.
魔力、強靱、幸運、すべてに優れた生き残りの矢だ。
In mana, resilience and luck, [that's] an arrow what survived [by way of] excelling in every [capacity].
サーヴァントのみんなにもわかるはず。
Every Servant should comprehend [the implications].
たった一本であっても、極限にまで呪詛の圧縮されたこれは『致命の矢』なんだ。
Even that it's just a single arrow, that what compresses Curses unto the limit is as 『an arrow of fatality』.
もはやサーヴァント自身が盾となっても防げないだろう。
Already, it's perhaps at such a point that even if a Servant were to make themselves as a shield, they wouldn't be able to effect a defense.
その者が感染し、新たな矢となってしまうからだ。
This would be on account that any who would [make the attempt] would [succumb] to infection, becoming [themselves] as an arrow anew.
あれがカルデアに到達すれば、『概念』が侵蝕し『轟沈』の結末が起動する。
And if that were to reach Chaldea, the outcome of 『sinking』 would come to activation per an erosion of 『Concept』.
物語として、最も強度の高い否定ーーー『正面から撃ち落とす』しか手段は残されていない！
Per its capacity as a tale (物語, monogatari), [our] only remaining countermeasure is a denial of the highest intensity — 『shooting it down head-on』.
@ Robin Hood
Maybe this is a dumb question, but ...
Is a single arrow really that big of a deal?
@ da Vinci
If I were to put it to words, that thing is kodoku.
In mana, resilience and luck, [that's] an arrow what survived [by way of] excelling in every [capacity].
Every Servant should comprehend [the implications].
Even that it's just a single arrow, that what compresses Curses unto the limit is as 『an arrow of fatality』.
Already, it's perhaps at such a point that even if a Servant were to make themselves as a shield, they wouldn't be able to effect a defense.
This would be on account that any who would [make the attempt] would [succumb] to infection, becoming [themselves] as an arrow anew.
And if that were to reach Chaldea, the outcome of 『sinking』 would come to activation per an erosion of 『Concept』.
Per its capacity as a tale (物語, monogatari), [our] only remaining countermeasure is a denial of the highest intensity — 『shooting it down head-on』.
Note that per the empowerment of a Grail, the arrows fired by Tametomo gradually escalate in their performance and capabilities, eventually coming acquire the characteristics of living organisms.
The successive interceptions of the arrows by Chaldea contributes to a process of elimination — a competition for the survival of the fittest, effecting an escalation unto kodoku.
The final remaining arrow accumulates the strengths — the collective Curses — of all the arrows eliminated.
In Nasu, Curses and Wishes are more or less the same thing. It isn't therefore incorrect to regard the final arrow as an embodiment of Wishes — perhaps the victor of something like a miniature Grail War, given that their escalation is literally empowered by a Grail?
TL;DR — There was in fact a lore drop on White Day 2022. We found out that the minimum expression of a Grail War potentially doesn't require any of the things we would normally associate with a Grail War, including (possibly) the existence of a Grail at outset.
EDIT:
HF - Day 07 - 02 said:
Using bugs… That doesn't mean his familiar is a bug, right?
Or… another way to use bugs is…
"Hold on. By bug user… do you mean like guys who use bugs as a medium for poison? Like, putting in hundreds of poisonous bugs in a pot, and using the last surviving one as a curse…?"
"No, that is wrong. From the start, cursing is outside of the Makiri's area of expertise.
The results of their magic always return to their bodies.
Cursing others would only result in mutual destruction."
"America is a country built on a fiction, what commits endless sins en route to the future."
"But that's a thing befitting of humanity."
"Let that America proceed in remembrance of its sins."
Super Bunyan is some sort of parody of "America in its mature state."
For reference, Bunyan is almost exclusively focused on shallow cultural pursuits such as action movies and being an influencer online.
Even though she's supposed to be the President of the United States, she spends all her resources on film production — which is why the cities you visit in the course of this event are filled with wreckage and ruin.
This is in part on account of accidents during filming that result collateral damage — buildings being destroyed and so forth.
She doesn't actually have the funds to fix anything.
Thus, once Guda and Mashu join her entourage, she puts them to work mining for fossils — mostly to amass funds as to pay off debtors and disgruntled actors.
Said actors have a billion complaints about the way she treats them and / or goes about filming her movies.
Most of the battles in this event are Guda and Mashu fending off disgruntled actors as Bunyan's bodyguards.
After obtaining the necessary funds, rather than rebuilding the cities she ruined, Bunyan reaches a temporary settlement with local actors, and then installs a golden statue of herself in whichever city she's visiting.
And of course Guda and Mashu work for free, as Bunyan repays their efforts with "friendship" and "appreciation."
Super Bunyan is aware of her problems, but insecure that she can actually change for the better.
Thus, she attempts to summon Young Bunyan to kill and replace herself.
However, with the support of her Instagram followers behind her, she turns out to be far too strong for Young Bunyan to overcome.
In the end, the only thing she can do is accept her own flaws and try to move past them.
It's really a not-so-veiled satire about the behavior of the United States in the modern era.
This isn't the Bunyan of the tall tales from a more innocent era.
This is the tall tale of America as it's come to be in the wake of "the American Century."
In summary:
"Let that sins committed remain as sin, that you engrave them upon your breast in the capacity of indiscretions. You bear [upon your shoulders] the expectations of your many companions."
Even that the story / presentation were somewhat flawed, and Bunyan was an absolutely horrible person, I would argue that the contents of the event better represent the United States than the 5th Singularity.
Did not know that. Makes a lot of sense in retrospect now that I'm thinking about it. What were the flaws in the story/presentation of Super Bunyan Event if its alright to ask?
Did not know that. Makes a lot of sense in retrospect now that I'm thinking about it. What were the flaws in the story/presentation of Super Bunyan Event if its alright to ask?
To elaborate, the initial part before the story starts in earnest feels meandering.
That is, it's structured in such a way that it has to meander, because the goal is to convey the sort of person Bunyan is to the audience. The meandering is a direct consequence of Bunyan's behavior — her lack of attention span. This is the way that the story shows-without-telling the ins and outs of her personality.
Bunyan is cute on a surface level, but as a result of having to follow her around and pick up after her, you quickly realize that she's extremely shallow and irresponsible — and that that's the point of her character.
She treats Guda and Mashu horribly — constantly taking advantage of their goodwill — but doesn't acknowledge it until substantially later.
Then you find out that she basically can't help but act this way. There isn't any "fixing" her, because that's just how she is — somebody who is flawed and incapable of easily changing, even if she tries.
