[] Plan Mechanically Optimal
-[] Roland (Veil of Shadows)
-[] Roland (Death from Above)
-[] Renne (Cat Got Your Tongue)
-[] Renne (Feel No Evil)
-[] Ruby (Ironheart)
-[] Ruby (Seismic Strike)
I acknowledge this plan is mechanically optimal but I also cant resist in my hear the coolness of letting Ruby get a rail gun. that and a guarantee on learning curse seems really useful for later on
 
Honestly I am kiiiinda tempted to swap the less Tanky frontline option for Ruby for the Railgun, purely on cool factor.

Is it smart? No, but Ruby having an electric type focus has always been cool to me.
 
I acknowledge this plan is mechanically optimal but I also cant resist in my hear the coolness of letting Ruby get a rail gun. that and a guarantee on learning curse seems really useful for later on

Who be it to deny you that if you want but what I will say is - the less Ruby is the frontline, more chance one of our friends pokemon will be maimed by one less body in the frontline. That is to some extent going to happen anyways, but it does increase the chances Vigoroth has to break through or to beat down on less prepared pokemon.

Is that worth it? That's up to you, as a voter. All I can do is increase context of the impact of choices.
 
Listen, I'm going to level with you, I am a turbo casual who knows nothing about Gale of Darkness or Shadow Pokémon. I could have misunderstood here and Arvis is just dropping Shadow type's offensive supereffectiveness.
It's been so long since I played XD that I needed a refresher, but the basics are:

Shadow Pokémon have one to four Shadow Moves (One in Colosseum, always Shadow Rush. Two in early XD, three later on, four for the seven Shadow Pokémon the final boss has and one bonus you get for getting every other Shadow Pokémon). They will always have these moves until purified. But if they have space in their movepool then as you slowly make progress towards Purifying them they'll pick up some non-Shadow moves. Then when you actually purify them they forget the Shadow moves entirely, getting specific moves in return.

It's not that important, Arvis can make the rules whatever are convenient. But still felt like being an exposition device.
 
So, something I'm not seeing people mentioning here: we actually have a decent chance to pull off a flinch-lock, here. And that would be the best possible thing we can do for this fight, since every time Vigoroth loses a turn to flinch or paralysis, it's not using that turn to OHKO one of our allies. So hear me out.

If Roland takes a frontline role, one of the moves he'll prioritize is Shadow Sneak, explicitly stated in the move list. Shadow Sneak causes the opponent to lose their next turn to flinch as long as two conditions are met: Roland has higher initiative than his opponent, and his effect roll is at least 20. And with the right combination of options, those are both doable on a fairly consistent basis.

Let's start with the effect roll. We get +13 to that from Skill right out of the gate, easy enough, and picking backline boosts that by another +2. That means we get +15 minimum to all effect rolls, for a 75% base chance of getting the 20+ effect roll needed to trigger our secondary effects. If any of our other allies in the support role give +effect to our side(likely at least one), every +1 they boost us by increases that by 5%, so that leaves our chances pretty high of getting all of our secondary effects off from all of our moves before anything else, as well as meaning that we're going to be dealing more damage from that. But that's before you count the +1 to effect rolls for every 2 points you beat your opponent's initiative by, which is almost certainly going to apply here, because the next thing I'm covering is initiative stacking.

So let's start with the obvious. Vigoroth's default initiative is +5. Roland gets +2 if he takes the frontline. Renne and Ruby both have options that let them drop Vigoroth's initiative by -2 each, bringing his initiative down to +1, lower than Roland's +2 initiative bonus from frontline, so we're already slightly more likely than not to beat Vigoroth in initiative just from that. Then we add in the effect of the other Pokémon in the support role (pretty sure the Murkrow line gets Tailwind, and we have a Murkrow on support), for a potentially even higher initiative buff for us or Vigoroth's initiative being pushed even lower. And then we add in that Roland's backline moveset has Agility listed, meaning we'll almost definitely be running a stack of that for the battle, so that's another +3 initiative, +6 if we get 20+ on the effect roll when we cast it (see previous paragraph for the odds of that). And then we add in a completely different thing: Ruby using Spark, which I'm going to put into a whole other paragraph.

So, other than Seismic Strike, both of Ruby's other possible tactics have Spark listed on the move list. Spark has a secondary effect of causing paralysis. (Dragonbreath also causes paralysis, but Roland learning that isn't guaranteed, so just use that as an increased chance of Vigoroth getting paralyzed and move on.) Ruby has an even higher chance of getting that secondary effect than Roland does, because she's going to be running Curse no matter what, so that's +2 to her effect rolls from Curse, another +2 if she gets the 20+ for the secondary effect, and another +2 if she runs backline for her second tactic after Seismic Strike, and of course the thing about other teammates running support still applies. And I'm pretty sure her custom move from the railgun option also applies paralysis, so in short we can just assume that Vigoroth is going to be paralyzed and have a pretty good chance of being right.

So what does paralysis do? It gives a full -10 to initiative rolls, and a one in four chance of skipping Vigoroth's turn every turn. That means one in four times when Vigoroth would hit a member of our party with a 1-or-2HKO, he will instead sit there and do nothing, and that's on top of the flinch-lock that is basically guaranteed by that -10 initiative on top of our initiative stacking and base high effect rolls. So basically we can turn our team into keeping Vigoroth from being able to do anything while everyone hammers him down.

So in conclusion, we can do this really cool thing if we pick the right combination of strategies, where Renne runs double support, Roland runs frontline and backline, and Ruby runs Seismic Strike and either of her other two strategies with a preference for backline for the increased effect and paralysis chance. As such:

[] Plan No Turns for Vigoroth
-[] Roland (Veil of Shadows)
-[] Roland (Death from Above)
-[] Renne (Cat Got Your Tongue)
-[] Renne (Feel No Evil)
-[] Ruby (Seismic Strike)
-[] Ruby (A Certain Terastal Railgun)

I feel like this is the best possible strategy.

Edit: actually, I messed up a little bit. +15 effect roll gives us a base 80% chance of getting our secondary effect on any given move, not 75%. Take that as you will.
 
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We clearly needed to find a maushold with the funny flinch rock for maximum cheese.
 
Delay is a mechanic in the Trails series that determines when a character takes their turn next, generally more powerful attacks will have higher delay value so that way you do more damage but are slower. however there are a lot of attacks or arts(trails version of spells) that inflict delay, very common strategy is to just inflict enough delay on the enemy that your turn happens again before they go so you can stack delay infinitely and they'll never take a turn.

The gif is of Fie(my best friend and spiritually a cat) who is infamous? in trails of coldsteel 1 for being very easy to delay spam with(in conjunction with Rean especially) like all of her stuff inflicts delay because shes cool and swag
 
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Leaf: "Hey kids, do you know what Bragg meant by 'fucking RNG flinch spamming'?"
 
If i remember correctly ( mind you only have experience with sky) that game goesby a turn order. Some skills can delay the turn of the user/enemy. So delay spam is using a bunch of move that "delay" that units turn. Never letting them act
Edit: greninjad. And explained better.
 
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Yeah, what other folks have said is roughly how delaying works (though I don't know how different ToCS is compared to Sky). I don't really picture things in term of "delay value," but players and enemies go through a turn order (shown by character/enemy icons), and doing moves which inflict delay shuffle enemies later into the turn queue. Delaying enemies is very good.

Also boosting speed and cutting down casting time with quartz/spells helps with this cause those things also determine how frequently your characters shuffle into the turn order.
 
Arvis, I swear to god, if you make me edit 7k words of your first big boss fight getting bodied by flinch and paralysis I will actually murder someone.
 
"Oh look, Shadow Pokemon are also immune to status effects? oh did I forget to mention that?"

Like, it's Shadow Pokemon, I doubt we're going to shut it down with a lucky Sleep, Paralyse, or flinch roll. As Tempera points out, it's terrible writing.
 
The gif is of Fie(my best friend and spiritually a cat) who is infamous? in trails of coldsteel 1 for being very easy to delay spam with(in conjunction with Rean especially) like all of her stuff inflicts delay because shes cool and swag
I was looking for a gif of her and Rean's link attack win animation but ran out of patience before I did.

"Oh look, Shadow Pokemon are also immune to status effects? oh did I forget to mention that?"


Like, it's Shadow Pokemon, I doubt we're going to shut it down with a lucky Sleep, Paralyse, or flinch roll. As Tempera points out, it's terrible writing.

"Your strategy doesn't work because I say so" is worse writing by a great deal. Now, of course, from a game design perspective it's perfectly normal to give bosses immunities, but I don't think it's going to be that much of a problem this time. "Flinching" requires a decent amount of luck on our part, and I don't think it'd negate both of Vigoroth's attacks per round in any case. But creating a coherent strategy to control a fight with a big, dangerous, but tactically non-present enemy is I think something that would do a lot to show off Class VII's nascent bonds as a team.
 
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"Your strategy doesn't work because I say so" is worse writing by a great deal.
No, actually, I firmly disagree.

From a writing perspective, there's not much that can be worse than a boss getting status-locked into doing nothing in a fight. There's very little you can do with that as a writer that doesn't undercut the tension of your fight scene; there's only a couple of ways to frame it, and neither of them convey any significant sense of danger or tension into the fight. And if you don't have any tension in your fight scene, why the fuck are you writing it?

It would be a fantastic way to undercut all narrative tension to the first arc's climactic encounter, but that's not actually something positive. The best you can do is showcase how effective a strategy the team was able to come up with, but you can both do that elsewhere and you can do it with strategies within the fight that don't undercut the entire fight scene.

I trust Arvis to do something to prevent a boss getting status-locked to death, though. They're a better writer than that.
 
Only inputting the thought that delay spam is something Mary would totally do if she was a Trails character. I think someone mentioned that Mary is more of a Fighter than a battler. Maximize chance of winning while lowering the chances of getting her friends hurt and if all goes well? This fight will REALLY enfesize that. Obviously i doubt its going to be that simple, but im hopeful. This story has me at the edge of my seat always.
 
Didn't someone do the math and realize that our teammates had a roughly even chance of beating the bonus objective for this boss even with none of them doing any clever strategies and our Pokémon doing nothing? If we do a clever strategy and end up stomping it, that's not "this is bad writing," that's "our team is overleveled for this encounter, and also has good strategy."

This is meant to be the first field exercise's boss fight, where we all just got our first badge. Everyone here is solidly 2-badge strength or better, and we have slightly more teammates than the recommended 2 Pokémon per trainer for this level. Being able to stomp it if we have good strategy isn't unreasonable, and is the payoff for all of the level-grinding we did earlier in the quest.

Honestly, if Group 2 was doing this same fight, Nemona would be the only thing keeping them from getting bodied. They have the two weakest members of Class VII, so they'd have a much harder time of it.
 
Didn't someone do the math and realize that our teammates had a roughly even chance of beating the bonus objective for this boss even with none of them doing any clever strategies and our Pokémon doing nothing? If we do a clever strategy and end up stomping it, that's not "this is bad writing," that's "our team is overleveled for this encounter, and also has good strategy."

This is meant to be the first field exercise's boss fight, where we all just got our first badge. Everyone here is solidly 2-badge strength or better, and we have slightly more teammates than the recommended 2 Pokémon per trainer for this level. Being able to stomp it if we have good strategy isn't unreasonable, and is the payoff for all of the level-grinding we did earlier in the quest.

Honestly, if Group 2 was doing this same fight, Nemona would be the only thing keeping them from getting bodied. They have the two weakest members of Class VII, so they'd have a much harder time of it.

.....dear Arceus im now imagining group 2 here instead of us.... Honestly yeah.... Nemona is probably the ONLY one that would keep that group alive....and shes probably in the complete other side of the spectrum to Mary, full on battler probably not a Fighter.... would they even succeed? Actually wait a minute what IS team 2 doing i forgot. All i remember is Atticus having Leafs Ditto (since hes the most responsible/ prpbqbly wont have decision paralysis in a dangerous battle)
 
The only thing I'm out-right removing in terms of Shadow Pokemon are the Type Advantages/Resistances and the Shadow Moves themselves
Other Shadow Pokemon mechanics are staying
 
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