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Touman Quest Redux: No SV, You Are the Kami-yan (Toaru Majutsu No Index Quest)

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Dimensionist said:
While this is true - seriously, over ten thousand deaths and they're still following the same general idea?

I suppose it's a way to show just how little the value of a Sister's life was, even in their minds, if they were willing to go through with it.
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If each encounter was the one to one fight, I'd agree, but based on the information, the Sisters were initially decanted with zero knowledge, and level 2 powers, as well as the knowledge on how to use a variety of weapons. Nothing at all. Accelerator was essentially fighting babies with guns for the initial fights, and likely a few attempts to take him down by coordinated mass combat. To the first Sisters, it was a mysterious death, if they attacked him, they died. If they were touched by him, they died.
Dimensionist said:
Technically, she can use her powers for defense, too, by creating shields made out of that power which annihilates anything it comes into contact with. Kinda like the Narutoverse Truth Seeking Ball technique.
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Apparently it doesn't work properly for shields. She could do point defense shootdowns, but she's rarely ever made a barrier, and it's also notable that using her power for defense severely damages her from the burn.
Dimensionist said:
Oh, it can get far more defensive and versatile than that, and he's used it for said purposes as well. Movement? Even leaving aside air control and flight, we see him use it to cover large distances in an instant. Alteration of states of matter? Done (Gas to plasma). Rearranging the landscape, for whatever reason? He's done that too, and with far more precision than mere destruction.

It's a highly versatile power. And it's not like 'destruction' is how it grows, either - the gains in the Touma fight show it pretty clearly.
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Destruction is how he sees it, and how the Kihara in charge developed him. All those things aside from the high speed charge attack came about after he saved Last Order, and realized that he could use his power for more than just killing and shrugging off the world. The factor there is perception, and with an esper power, perception counts for a great deal.
 
veekie said:
If each encounter was the one to one fight, I'd agree, but based on the information, the Sisters were initially decanted with zero knowledge, and level 2 powers, as well as the knowledge on how to use a variety of weapons. Nothing at all. Accelerator was essentially fighting babies with guns for the initial fights, and likely a few attempts to take him down by coordinated mass combat. To the first Sisters, it was a mysterious death, if they attacked him, they died. If they were touched by him, they died.
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That's not quite true - while they didn't know the specifics of Accelerator's power, that it was Vector Manipulation isn't hard to figure out (if they weren't told it from the start, that is). Extrapolating from that, you get his abilities. And Testament provided more than just weaponry knowledge, it was a full download sufficient to let them pass as eccentric school girls.

And while experimenting to find out the specifics is fine and dandy, I'm just amazed they tossed over ten thousand bodies at him for just that before changing their general plans. Says how little they value their lives.

veekie said:
Apparently it doesn't work properly for shields. She could do point defense shootdowns, but she's rarely ever made a barrier, and it's also notable that using her power for defense severely damages her from the burn.
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? She uses her barrier multiple times during her fight with Mikoto in the anime. What, did they change that from the LN?

veekie said:
Destruction is how he sees it, and how the Kihara in charge developed him. All those things aside from the high speed charge attack came about after he saved Last Order, and realized that he could use his power for more than just killing and shrugging off the world. The factor there is perception, and with an esper power, perception counts for a great deal.
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Regardless of how he sees it, his esper powers didn't develop through some kind of EXP grinding system where he destroys something to gain new powers. Canon is quite clear on the matter - he develops it during the fight, when he tries to figure out new ways to attack a foe who can actually hurt him. And post that, he develops new abilities on the basis of challenging situations (like him rewriting someone's brain chemistry through vector manipulation).

Yes, Accelerator believes his power was only good for hurting people. To get back on topic, however, his personal belief of what his power is meant for quite explicitly doesn't make any difference when it comes to developing it, in canon.
 
Dimensionist said:
That's not quite true - while they didn't know the specifics of Accelerator's power, that it was Vector Manipulation isn't hard to figure out (if they weren't told it from the start, that is). Extrapolating from that, you get his abilities.
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Uh, that's the sort of thing that's much easier to put together from the outside.

In character, it could be vector control, aerokinesis, spatial manipulation, illusion, etc. Theres a LOT of possible approaches, and they were definitely not informed of his abilities.

Dimensionist said:
And while experimenting to find out the specifics is fine and dandy, I'm just amazed they tossed over ten thousand bodies at him for just that before changing their general plans. Says how little they value their lives.
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They didn't get a say in it. The combats are preplanned scenarios that they play through.

So if the scenario says "50 Sisters charge him and try to kill him with rifles" that's exactly what they have to do, even if they can mix up the tactics.
However, they definitely did not understand that their lives HAD any value, this was not part of their education, knowledge, or experience until Touma stood up to them.

Dimensionist said:
? She uses her barrier multiple times during her fight with Mikoto in the anime. What, did they change that from the LN?
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Yep. She had no barrier powers, only the ability to shoot down any incoming attacks with overwhelming force.

Dimensionist said:
To get back on topic, however, his personal belief of what his power is meant for quite explicitly doesn't make any difference when it comes to developing it, in canon.
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The esper's beliefs and self image are integral to power development. It's one of the reasons Move Point stopped advancing, because she developed a phobia about her power, and why Mental Out was guided towards the role of Queen Bee, because the self image and confidence were integral to a level 5 mind controller. It's why Acccelerator's aggression could be implanted to turn Aerokinesis into Bomber Lance.
 
veekie said:
The esper's beliefs and self image are integral to power development. It's one of the reasons Move Point stopped advancing, because she developed a phobia about her power,
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Hence she didn't work to increase its ability, fitting with my explanation. And I'll note that a phobia regarding an ability is quite different than a specific idea of what the ability leads to.

and why Mental Out was guided towards the role of Queen Bee, because the self image and confidence were integral to a level 5 mind controller.
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Leaving aside that I don't know where this is mentioned, that supports my post, because being in such a position and using her powers to maintain it would only elevate her abilities through understanding and practice (the way Mikoto raised her abilities).

It's why Acccelerator's aggression could be implanted to turn Aerokinesis into Bomber Lance.
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No idea what you're talking about, and the wiki doesn't mention it when I google Bomber Lance (quite the opposite - apparently, Accelerator's mental state was unsuited for the user of Bomber Lance.

And from the description in that page, it seems to me that the type of power that develops is dependent on a person's nature. But it's scale and level of ability? Outside of scientific intervention such as with Level Upper (which artificially made a Hive Mind to increase processing power and understanding), it's based on ... well, what I mentioned.
 
Dimensionist said:
Leaving aside that I don't know where this is mentioned, that supports my post, because being in such a position and using her powers to maintain it would only elevate her abilities through understanding and practice (the way Mikoto raised her abilities).
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Latest light novel volume. There were two candidates to be Level 5 Telepath, and there could only be one, the existence of an equal robs them of the psychological foundation to develop level 5 mental control. There can only be one Queen.
 
veekie said:
Latest light novel volume. There were two candidates to be Level 5 Telepath, and there could only be one, the existence of an equal robs them of the psychological foundation to develop level 5 mental control. There can only be one Queen.
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'Kay. I haven't read New Testament yet, so I'll take your word for it.
 
Speaking about Bee and Ant and Level 5. I wonder what happened to Ant in this story. Was her backstory even real? Or was she lying?
 
KurobaraIto said:
Speaking about Bee and Ant and Level 5. I wonder what happened to Ant in this story. Was her backstory even real? Or was she lying?
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The whole volume was mindfuck layered on mindfuck by the two best power based mindfuckers, science based mindfuck and pure skill mindfuck so...some serious illusion going on.

Was the volume even real is a legit question there.
 
KurobaraIto said:
Speaking about Bee and Ant and Level 5. I wonder what happened to Ant in this story. Was her backstory even real? Or was she lying?
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If by Bee and Ant you mean Misaki and the crazy jealous bitch, then I guess Touma went on his adventure with Misaki and when shit got real he called in Close Air Support Accelerator to help. Then he doesn't get injured and Misaki doesn't have to help the paramedics lower his blood pressure, meaning no bullshit brain damage.
 
veekie said:
The whole volume was mindfuck layered on mindfuck by the two best power based mindfuckers, science based mindfuck and pure skill mindfuck so...some serious illusion going on.

Was the volume even real is a legit question there.
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I know right, I don't even know if what Mitsuari said is right. Though the thing with Parameter List is probably right. The question is, was her statement about Touma failed to save her the truth or was it lie?

Highwind said:
If by Bee and Ant you mean Misaki and the crazy jealous bitch, then I guess Touma went on his adventure with Misaki and when shit got real he called in Close Air Support Accelerator to help. Then he doesn't get injured and Misaki doesn't have to help the paramedics lower his blood pressure, meaning no bullshit brain damage.
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So real happy end then?
 
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VIII. A Certain Concerned Boss and Breaking the News
  • Threadmarks
    • [X] Sigh. "We could try to requisition some new ones from the head office, but... Uiharu modded them a lot, and much of the cost came out of her pocket too. It's going to take a lot of time and money to get them up to her standards." Wince. "Plus it looks like you fried her personal computer, too."
    -[X] "But you know... you can always get a part time job. You're smart, talented and famous, so it shouldn't be too hard. In fact... I know a place that could certainly use someone with your power and skills..." Offer her a Judgement armband.
    -[X] "That aside, I did need to talk to you. Come on, let's getsomewhere private so we can talk. It's rather important."

    You sigh. "We could try to requisition some new ones from the head office, but... Uiharu modded them a lot, and much of the cost came out of her pocket too. It's going to take a lot of time and money to get them up to her standards." Wince. "Plus it looks like you fried her personal computer, too."

    "But you know... you can always get a part time job. You're smart, talented and famous, so it shouldn't be too hard. In fact... I know a place that could certainly use someone with your power and skills...," You offer her a Judgement armband which she takes gingerly. ",That aside, I did need to talk to you. Come on, let's get somewhere private so we can talk. It's rather important." You finish turning to walk out.

    Walking back outside you see...Schokolade holding up burgers in the air with her telekinesis and holding Index back with her hands.

    Oga, and Accelerator look like they're about to attempt to murder each other, with Tsuna and Naegi trying to calm the two down.

    And Misaki...seems to be having a pleasant conversation with Kyoko...huh.

    "Alright guys! Time to go." You say.

    Accelerator grunts glaring at Oga who snarls and turns away. Tsuna and Naegi sigh in relief while Misaki cheerfully waves at you by the door.

    "Ah! Bosu! Before I forget. Could you please take this girl off of this Kamijou's hands? She needs protection as she claims someone or more people are after her." You ask.

    Konori frowned before asking "Did you get in trouble again?"

    "EH! Why do you think that!? Do you think this Kamijou is a trouble maker, a delinquent like Oga? " You complain.

    "OI! What the fuck boss!?" Oga calls annoyed.

    Konori ignores his outburst and fiddles with her glasses, pushing them up on her face. "Not all. I'm only concerned as while you do your best to stay out of trouble, it often happens to find you Kamijou-kun. I'm simply looking out for my subordinate is all." She says a look of real concern on her face.

    You look at her before sighing and reassuring her. "Geeze, I'm telling you I'm fine don't worry about me." With that you leave the building Accelerator, Misaki, and Mikoto in tow.

    "So, you said that we should go somewhere private, where do we go?" Mikoto asks.

    "My house." You say.
    __________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
    "Well...what do you need to speak to me about?" Biri Biri asks.

    How do you tell her the news?

    [] Write-in
    __________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
    I said I was getting you another update.
     
  • Threadmarks
    • [X] Keep things straightforward - give her the details of the illegal experiment involving that Accelerator informed you about, and say that you intend to put a stop to it. However, since it seems to have the backing of someone who is both high ranking and corrupt you can't risk making it an official investigation as of yet as they may have someone watching the official Judgement records. You're gathering people you know who can help with the investigation, and since these are clones made from her - which you doubt she would have allowed - you felt it would be best to inform her and see if she wanted to help. Her skills, particularly in hacking and electronic warfare, could be useful in gathering evidence so Judgement and Anti-Skill could close the net.

    Just keep it business here - this is a serious matter and we need to take it seriously.
     
    [X] Keep things straightforward - give her the details of the illegal experiment involving that Accelerator informed you about, and say that you intend to put a stop to it. However, since it seems to have the backing of someone who is both high ranking and corrupt you can't risk making it an official investigation as of yet as they may have someone watching the official Judgement records. You're gathering people you know who can help with the investigation, and since these are clones made from her - which you doubt she would have allowed - you felt it would be best to inform her and see if she wanted to help. Her skills, particularly in hacking and electronic warfare, could be useful in gathering evidence so Judgement and Anti-Skill could close the net.

    Perfect.
     
    [X] Keep things straightforward - give her the details of the illegal experiment involving that Accelerator informed you about, and say that you intend to put a stop to it. However, since it seems to have the backing of someone who is both high ranking and corrupt you can't risk making it an official investigation as of yet as they may have someone watching the official Judgement records. You're gathering people you know who can help with the investigation, and since these are clones made from her - which you doubt she would have allowed - you felt it would be best to inform her and see if she wanted to help. Her skills, particularly in hacking and electronic warfare, could be useful in gathering evidence so Judgement and Anti-Skill could close the net.
     
    [X] Keep things straightforward - give her the details of the illegal experiment involving that Accelerator informed you about, and say that you intend to put a stop to it. However, since it seems to have the backing of someone who is both high ranking and corrupt you can't risk making it an official investigation as of yet as they may have someone watching the official Judgement records. You're gathering people you know who can help with the investigation, and since these are clones made from her - which you doubt she would have allowed - you felt it would be best to inform her and see if she wanted to help. Her skills, particularly in hacking and electronic warfare, could be useful in gathering evidence so Judgement and Anti-Skill could close the net.

    Works for me.
     
    [X] Keep things straightforward - give her the details of the illegal experiment involving that Accelerator informed you about, and say that you intend to put a stop to it. However, since it seems to have the backing of someone who is both high ranking and corrupt you can't risk making it an official investigation as of yet as they may have someone watching the official Judgement records. You're gathering people you know who can help with the investigation, and since these are clones made from her - which you doubt she would have allowed - you felt it would be best to inform her and see if she wanted to help. Her skills, particularly in hacking and electronic warfare, could be useful in gathering evidence so Judgement and Anti-Skill could close the net.
     
    [X] Keep things straightforward - give her the details of the illegal experiment involving that Accelerator informed you about, and say that you intend to put a stop to it. However, since it seems to have the backing of someone who is both high ranking and corrupt you can't risk making it an official investigation as of yet as they may have someone watching the official Judgement records. You're gathering people you know who can help with the investigation, and since these are clones made from her - which you doubt she would have allowed - you felt it would be best to inform her and see if she wanted to help. Her skills, particularly in hacking and electronic warfare, could be useful in gathering evidence so Judgement and Anti-Skill could close the net.

    Sounds good enough
     
    [X] Keep things straightforward - give her the details of the illegal experiment involving that Accelerator informed you about, and say that you intend to put a stop to it. However, since it seems to have the backing of someone who is both high ranking and corrupt you can't risk making it an official investigation as of yet as they may have someone watching the official Judgement records. You're gathering people you know who can help with the investigation, and since these are clones made from her - which you doubt she would have allowed - you felt it would be best to inform her and see if she wanted to help. Her skills, particularly in hacking and electronic warfare, could be useful in gathering evidence so Judgement and Anti-Skill could close the net.
     
    ... I'm amazed Mikoto went to Touma's house without even a little bit of being flustered.

    I mean, it's a teenage girl going to a teenage boy's house. Who lives alone.

    In Japanese anime, that's pretty much the equivalent to the dude propositioning her for sex.
     
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