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Tome of the Orange Sky (Naruto/MGLN)

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FaerieKnight79 said:
Let alone wants to spend all his time making portable showers.
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There are 5 things for which Naruto Uzumaki is well known. Pranks, Orange, Kyuubi, Rasengan, and Clones.

Of course, all those memories might be boring, so I had to go back and check — apparently he doesn't get the chakra back from the Elemental Paperwork Clones, but there's no indication that they don't give him the memories. Dumping out a bunch of clones who could make seals and then not give him the memories would have been a neat solution.

And, if he pairs up with Tazuna, he might be able to expand it from "Portable Shower" to a full "Portable House"!
 
Chronocidal said:
There are 5 things for which Naruto Uzumaki is well known. Pranks, Orange, Kyuubi, Rasengan, and Clones.

Of course, all those memories might be boring, so I had to go back and check – apparently he doesn't get the chakra back from the Elemental Paperwork Clones, but there's no indication that they don't give him the memories. Dumping out a bunch of clones who could make seals and then not give him the memories would have been a neat solution.

And, if he pairs up with Tazuna, he might be able to expand it from "Portable Shower" to a full "Portable House"!
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Uh, if I read it right... He DOES get the memories from elemental clones. He just doesn't get the chakra refunded when they pop. That's why after the village wide 'zombie invasion' he was unavailable for missions for a while. All those clones were sending back their memories, and it was overwhelming.
 
There actually ought to be at least one or two ways of essentially mass printing relatively simple seals. After all, if you can print books, you can damn well print basic seals like exploding tags and fairly simple storage scrolls. For those on, say, the portable shower you could add a bit that means when you stick the paper onto the wall of the shower and activate it for the first time the seal literally burns itself onto the wall destroying the paper and permanently attaching itself to the wall. I really doubt that even an apprentice seal expert would be willing to turn out job lots of basic explosive tags after all, unless they were getting paid pretty well for them, which I doubt.
 
CmptrWz said:
In reality, the others were keeping an eye on Naruto as he recovered from making an insane number of clones. He didn't get the chakra back from the 'elemental' paperwork clones and he needed a lot for a village-wide zombie invasion. The destruction of the clones also took quite a bit out of him as the memories flowed back to him.
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Yeah, I was right. He does get the memories from elemental clones.

Forger1985 said:
There actually ought to be at least one or two ways of essentially mass printing relatively simple seals. After all, if you can print books, you can damn well print basic seals like exploding tags and fairly simple storage scrolls. For those on, say, the portable shower you could add a bit that means when you stick the paper onto the wall of the shower and activate it for the first time the seal literally burns itself onto the wall destroying the paper and permanently attaching itself to the wall. I really doubt that even an apprentice seal expert would be willing to turn out job lots of basic explosive tags after all, unless they were getting paid pretty well for them, which I doubt.
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As I understand it, seals have to be hand drawn because you're channeling your chakra into them as you draw the seal. It's an integral part of the process. Thus while printing presses might exist, they can't stamp out usable seals in endless number. Print the design so prospective students can learn it? Maybe. But make a usable seal? Probably not.

And seal makers probably can make a lot off their work. Especially since there's so few seal masters around. The laws of supply and demand. There's a lot of demand, but a limited supply. Heck, Naruto already has an order for 100 variable weight training belts, and a list of stores approved for him selling them through. And an entire clan is likely to start going through him to get storage seals after he mentioned his being able to store food safely for months at a time (at least). Oh, and the fact his storage seals have a "first in, first out" order of release instead of "last in, first out".
 
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FaerieKnight79 said:
I doubt "seal that makes seals" is a thing. "shadow clones that can make seals", yes. But it's probably not possible to make a seal that automates the creation of seals.
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I'm thinking that it would be possible to automate the application of seals, all you need is a stamp made of chakra conductive materials and a source of chakra which could be a seal which gets charged up.

Add that seal masters can apply well known seals with a touch it might be possible to create a seal which can apply seals which when combined with another seal which gathers energy from the environment and converts it to chakra would also automate the process.
 
If there was a way to automate the creation of seals, don't you think someone would have discovered it already? Probably multiple times over, independently of each other. I mean, yes a seal master with very impressive chakra control can apply a seal they know intimately with just a touch. But that still involves the seal master drawing the seal with their chakra. It's not just "I know this seal so well, I can touch you to apply it with no additional effort on my part." It's quite literally "I know this seal so well and have such great chakra control that I no longer need ink to draw the seal. I can draw it using just chakra when I touch you." There's still a guiding mind behind the seal being made.
 
While I agree there little evidence of the ninja's having mass production of seals you have to remember this is a crossover. Nanoha canonically has all sorts of magitech including wish granting artefacts and magic canons. Heck there industrial base is apparently built on magic suggesting they have a way to factory automate magical tech. The question is how close to seals is it and does the tome have the principles behind this?
 
CastleTrime said:
While I agree there little evidence of the ninja's having mass production of seals you have to remember this is a crossover. Nanoha canonically has all sorts of magitech including wish granting artefacts and magic canons. Heck there industrial base is apparently built on magic suggesting they have a way to factory automate magical tech. The question is how close to seals is it and does the tome have the principles behind this?
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And critically, Naruto has no access to any of that. The tome contained a basic bullet spell, the Knight Armor spell, and a basic flight spell. That's the entirety of the database that survived. Everything else is based on what the ninja of his world can do. As such, it doesn't matter if Belka would have been able to print usable seals. That is tech that is lost to Naruto and Tome. And there's been no evidence so far that the TSAB is even looking for Tome.

In Hybrid Hive Taylor and Hive have managed to recreate a lot of stuff. But that's not due to Hive, so much as it is Taylor being absolute bullshit and reverse engineering things based on looking at Hive's hardware. Even if Tome did have the same technical specs hardcoded in, Naruto is not a math prodigy. Neither is he merged with a alien multi-dimensional super computer. He can't study billions of things in a simulation at once, or reverse engineer Tome's hardware. He's limited to the 3 spells Tome came with, and any ninjutsu that Tome gained when it subsumed the fox and his parents. Oh, and anything he learns/creates.

Which means he is limited to his world's tech base. And he still has no clue about some of the higher tech stuff in his world like steam engines.
 
The above bit is the most believable and also anything large scale is probably a major target for an infiltration and then prompt sabotage if anyone can
 
As the Roman Catholic Church can attest, once the genie is out of the bottle... it's impossible to put back in. Gutenberg and one other person brought the printing press out of China and into Germany. And you'd better believe the Roman Catholic Church tried to suppress this 'new' technology. The pope at the time was well aware of how dangerous it was to the Church's rule. It didn't work, at all. Once it was proven to be possible, it didn't take long for printing presses to crop up everywhere.

Let's say some seal master figured out a way to automate the creation of seals via printing or stamping them. Even if he or she kept the knowledge to themself, the evidence would be there for other ninja clans to find. Or even other ninja within their own clan. I'd imagine that just as no two hand written copies of a book made by the same person are ever 100% identical, no two hand drawn seals are ever identical. Even if they are made by the same person. So storage seals and explosive tags that are 100% identical would be noteworthy. Then add in that the seal master is producing far more then is reasonable to be expected for a given time frame? Other seal masters would sit up and take notice.

This in turn would lead to multiple clans/villages either stealing the knowledge or figuring it out from those clues. And once that happened, there would be no need for seal masters. Why bother having anyone spend years learning an art, when you can just have anyone use the stamp or run the machine to create the seals you want in any number you want?

And if an enemy force decided to sabotage your seal printing facility? You'd better believe they would also bring back copous notes on how it worked. Maybe some examples too. Which would again lead to knowledge spreading. So no, it's more likely that seal creation in Naruto's world can't be automated. Which isn't to say that Belka or the TSAB couldn't automate it using their AI driven magitech, but that the tech base on Naruto's world is incapable of it. And that is the tech base Naruto is having to use.
 
Well for one thing if I remember right Chakra metal is expensive as all hell so if might work for say explosive tags or regular storage seals of various sorts or other particularly useful seals that would be needed in large amounts much other than that would probably not work out not to mention any other complications that might come up with this sort of thing plus seals as far as I am aware tend to fail explosive right?
 
Kirill said:
Konan did make millions of exploding tags, so its at least possible to create a lot of copies of the same seal at once.
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Treekin3000 said:
True, but she spent years doing so.
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This is actually a plot point in Uzumaki Naruko: To the Victor the Spoils V2. A Hyuuga OC successfully blows up Naruko's apartment. The overkill number of explosive tags used is cited as proof of intent, idiot spent decades of his free time on this plot, and still had to buy more than half of the tags from the Village Armory.
 
FaerieKnight79 said:
Doesn't she also have a bloodline limit where she can control paper with her chakra? Which would, naturally, help with her making large numbers of explosive tags.
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Would it? Maybe she could touch-apply seals without actually touching paper.
My point was that a talented ninja could create enormous amount of relatively simple seals without special technology.
 
As I understand it, her bloodline lets her create paper from her body with a seal already on the paper in addition to just controlling it.

Of course, while a talented ninja could do so if they understand the seal intimately... it's suppose to be a very rare skill with even fewer who mastered it to the point where they can apply seals by touch. The only ones I'm aware of who can do that are Konan, Jairya, and Orochimaru. Then again, beyond them it's unknown if there are any other seal experts. I mean, Hinata's family would have to have at least one, I suppose. And someone has to be making the sealing scrolls Tenten uses. But it's a damn rare skill to have.
 
I'm pretty sure that Konan specifically does not have a bloodline limit. She just spent quite a bit of time developing it to the high level she ended up with. That doesn't necessarily preclude her having some unusually high affinity towards that type of technique, though.

Though in this story's AU, I wonder if this version of her has been at least attempting to find Uzu's Paperwork Jutsu, given that she might think that it could possibly fit into her skill set, given that she would only know the name. Along with the fact that it 'can help with paperwork'.
 
One thing to consider is that a seal that prints other seals would likely be extremely complex and need to be specifically modified in a way geared to any seal it makes and possibly have a prohibitively high chakra cost to run compared to making the seal by hand(such as the seal using 100 or 1000 times the chakra per seal due to waste and extra functions required to store chakra for its "batteries" and the high precision and detail needed in the printing part requiring possibly an entire 100 page book of seals for even a few strokes), it could be that only the Uzumaki clan had the ability and/or chakra capacity to make the use of such a setup viable enough to be worthwhile, and learning about that would be something that could justify the 4 vs 1 attack that destroyed that village, also given how the Uzumaki security in this story includes perception filters that prevent you from knowing anything is there to steal, it wouldn't be surprising if nobody could find anything to copy or if it got destroyed as part of the conflict or the villages defenses including a self-destruct function being triggered to clear out any of their higher priority secrets.
 
I suspect the biggest obstacles to most seals being "mass produced" would be a combination of complexity (remember the scene where Kakashi put a seal over Sasuke's Cure seal, and how large it was before being activated/applied? Damn thing was huge, extending far past the boy's body in every direction) and the mindset that each is a unique work of art. That is to say, most seals are bespoke creations tailored to the needs of a specific situation, not "off the shelf" items. As such, they would command bespoke prices, and mass production would lower their value far more then the access to multiple sellable seals would imply.

Or, to put it another way, a Seal Master likely is worth hiring for a job that charges hundreds of (insert local currency here) per hour, while a "seal sweat shop" would likely pay less then a tenth that. This means it is very much in the Seal Master's favor that such sweat shops never cut into their business...

Exploding tags are likely the only exception. They are also likely to be the normal result of an otherwise failed tag of any sort. As such, I expect most Chunin will be able to produce them using a badly made chakra conductive stamp and the right materials by the dozen...
 
FaerieKnight79 said:
Doesn't she also have a bloodline limit where she can control paper with her chakra? Which would, naturally, help with her making larg
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FaerieKnight79 said:
As I understand it, her bloodline lets her create paper from her body with a seal already on the paper in addition to just controlling it.
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ForwardRewind said:
I'm pretty sure that Konan specifically does not have a bloodline limit.
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Exactly zero clarification was ever made regarding what the hell is going on with the fact that Konan is apparently made entirely of paper or what capabilities that actually grants her other than "she was good at origami as a kid". Anyone who thinks they know details has accidentally gotten into fanon.
 
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Naruto could still become rich as all heck by selling the rights to the Shower Seal to a Seal Master already established in Konoha who just sets a Journeyman to cranking those seals out as fast as demand requires.
 
The biggest surprise would be, upon the other villages learning that Naruto basically made a seal-able Portable Bath/Shower, for all of their kunoichis to threaten at kunai/Jutsu point their leadership to declare Naruto off-limits for bounties (or at least to label them 'Alive Only, upon pain of painful death by enraged kunoichis').
 
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