There Was A Different Idea: An MCU Producer Quest

[Duke William of]

Plan: Russia's Greatest War-Machine
[X] [Obadiah] Make the suggested change; with Obadiah and Tony facing each other due to conflicting beliefs.
[X] Mid-Credits Scene: A man is seen approaching the receptionist's desk of an unknown Stark Industries building. He approaches and tells one of the receptionists he's there to pick up some of his dead father's belongings, mentioning offhandedly about some blueprints and a manual. His face is kept hidden for the whole scene. The receptionist asks the man to wait a moment as he's on the phone, before asking for the man's name. "Hedeon. Hedeon Vanko." Name of father? "Anton."
Crimson Dynamo's armor mixed with Whiplash's whips? New Crimson Dynamo altogether? Who knows?

[X] Plan Butterfly Wings
-[X] [Obadiah] Make the suggested change; with Obadiah and Tony facing each other due to conflicting beliefs
-[X] [Mid-Credit Scene] Write In: The scene shows Phil Coulson speaking to his boss on the phone about the Iron Man situation. He talks about what a mess it was and that he's glad that it's over. The conversation concludes with a talk about how he hopes the situation with the hammer will be more easily resolved.

Changing my vote.

 

[Nystical]

-[X] [Mid-Credit Scene] Write In: The scene shows General Ross meeting with a shadowy group of backers. He makes a speech that now that Stark is out of the weapons game, the Gamma bombs are more important then ever and will be needed to face the problems of tomorrow.

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Do we really need a credit scene setting up the Hulk when the movie's production is back on schedule and going to be marketed as normal? They released less than 2 months apart in OTL and didn't have one, so a credit scene wouldn't really be the longer term tease for hype building that they normally are.

And I want Wonder Man to get a thing. But we're not going to actually say his name, right? We should let the fans go crazy over that one word, with no other hints.

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Exactly.

 

[Servo1991]

Plan: Russia's Greatest War-Machine
[X] [Obadiah] Make the suggested change; with Obadiah and Tony facing each other due to conflicting beliefs.
[X] Mid-Credits Scene: A man is seen approaching the receptionist's desk of an unknown Stark Industries building. He approaches and tells one of the receptionists he's there to pick up some of his dead father's belongings, mentioning offhandedly about some blueprints and a manual. His face is kept hidden for the whole scene. The receptionist asks the man to wait a moment as he's on the phone, before asking for the man's name. "Hedeon. Hedeon Vanko." Name of father? "Anton."

 

[Nystical]

[X] Mid-Credits Scene: A man is seen approaching the receptionist's desk of an unknown Stark Industries building. He approaches and tells one of the receptionists he's there to pick up some of his dead father's belongings, mentioning offhandedly about some blueprints and a manual. His face is kept hidden for the whole scene. The receptionist asks the man to wait a moment as he's on the phone, before asking for the man's name. "Hedeon. Hedeon Vanko." Name of father? "Anton."

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I'm not sure we should have a credit scene teasing potential stuff for Iron Man 2 in Iron Man 1. It sets things in stone way too early, and reduces the overall connectedness of cinematic universe. I would rather have an Iron Man 2 tease in the Hulk, and/or another film after the Hulk, depending on when we decide to do Iron Man 2. That way the different characters' movies tease each other rather than being self-referential.

 

[King crimson]

Do we really need a credit scene setting up the Hulk when the movie's production is back on schedule and going to be marketed as normal? They released less than 2 months apart in OTL and didn't have one, so a credit scene wouldn't really be the longer term tease for hype building that they normally are.

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Fair enough. I'll probably change it. That being said I don't want a Wonder Man scene for reasons I'll list below.

I'm not sure we should have a credit scene teasing potential stuff for Iron Man 2 in Iron Man 1. It sets things in stone way too early, and reduces the overall connectedness of cinematic universe. I would rather have an Iron Man 2 tease in the Hulk, and/or another film after the Hulk, depending on when we decide to do Iron Man 2. That way the different characters' movies tease each other rather than being self-referential.

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Every point you listed here is a point against a Wonder Man teaser especially if we go with your idea of effectively making Wonder Man a pseudo-Iron Man 2. I'm almost as against having the Wonder Man scene be in as I am the Whiplash stuff (Wonder Man is at least something different so it's slightly better).

 

[Duke William of]

@King crimson, you know Iron Man 2 alluded to Whiplash being Crimson Dynamo's son with the Anton Vanko thing, but never did much with Crimson dynamo in general? Basically, my idea is the mid-credits scene I cooked up. We're setting up Hedeon to be someone to look out for in the future(at least to those who read the comics), and we can either make him the next Crimson Dynamo, or just make him Whiplash but with armor gifted by daddy Anton.

[X] Mid-Credits Scene: A man is seen approaching the receptionist's desk of an unknown Stark Industries building. He approaches and tells one of the receptionists he's there to pick up some of his dead father's belongings, mentioning offhandedly about some blueprints and a manual. His face is kept hidden for the whole scene. The receptionist asks the man to wait a moment as he's on the phone, before asking for the man's name. "Hedeon. Hedeon Vanko." Name of father? "Anton."

That being said:

I'm not sure we should have a credit scene teasing potential stuff for Iron Man 2 in Iron Man 1. It sets things in stone way too early, and reduces the overall connectedness of cinematic universe. I would rather have an Iron Man 2 tease in the Hulk, and/or another film after the Hulk, depending on when we decide to do Iron Man 2. That way the different characters' movies tease each other rather than being self-referential.

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I can agree with the reasoning behind this so I'll change my vote. I'm keeping the mid-credits scene idea for later, though.

 

[kingreaper]

What?

You can't have Wasp without Ant-Man! They're linked as a team down to the very core of their characters.

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They're linked, and yet in our world there was an Ant-Man movie without Wasp, and there's a comic-book Wasp who gained her powers without Ant-Man (from whose powers Hank Pym discovered Pym Particles).

Ant-Man isn't needed for the avengers. Hank Pym can still exist with his Pym Particles, but Wasp with her inherent ability to shrink without a suit, and to fly, is far more suited to an Avengers movie.

 

[RomanceNinja]

They're linked, and yet in our world there was an Ant-Man movie without Wasp, and there's a comic-book Wasp who gained her powers without Ant-Man (from whose powers Hank Pym discovered Pym Particles).

Ant-Man isn't needed for the avengers. Hank Pym can still exist with his Pym Particles, but Wasp with her inherent ability to shrink without a suit and to fly is far more suited to an Avengers movie.

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Why even separate them in the first place? That just seems ridiculous considering just how linked they are in the comics and the fact that she's practically his side-kick. And her being quite literally genetically altered by Hank Pym himself.

And also the fact that Wasp did actually appear in the first movie, granted as an original daughter version of her character, with the suit being shown in full at the end. Hell the actual Janet Van Dyne was shown in the movie too as Wasp in a flashback where she was partnered up with Hank Pym on a mission.

 

[King crimson]

I've altered my plan to have the post credits scene be Coulson talking over the phone and vaguely mentioning Mjolnir

@King crimson, you know Iron Man 2 alluded to Whiplash being Crimson Dynamo's son with the Anton Vanko thing, but never did much with Crimson dynamo in general? Basically, my idea is the mid-credits scene I cooked up. We're setting up Hedeon to be someone to look out for in the future(at least to those who read the comics), and we can either make him the next Crimson Dynamo, or just make him Whiplash but with armor gifted by daddy Anton.

Click to shrink...

I mean I'd still much rather wait before pulling in another Iron Man character this early. It's not an awful idea but it still commits us to using a specific character/plot and an actor for that character ahead of time while we still have no idea how things will go. The more specific we are about the details the more we commit to and lock ourselves into which seems like a mistake this early on.

The idea is fine in theory but it's just kind of a commitment to have the credits scene of the movie set up the antagonist of a hypothetical sequel that we don't know when it will even fall or if it's absolutely the idea we want to go with. It's safer to commit to something different to start linking stuff together early and vaguely before going and pulling stunts like that.

 

[The Laurent]

[X] [Obadiah] Make the suggested change; with Obadiah and Tony facing each other due to conflicting beliefs.

[X] [Mid-Credit Scene] Write In: A man is seen watching a tv in a dark room. On the screen is Tony announcing his entrance into various industries and intending to change his company and himself for the better. He sarcastically utters one word: "Wonderful." The man is Simon Williams.

I know relatively little about him, but having looked him up it seems like he'd be a good foil to Tony Stark's attempted character development, whether directly at some later point (as in, meeting him in a movie), or symbolically/thematically to compare/contrast.

 

[Kirook]

Basically. Check this. It says a lot of what we can go with.

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I mean, that's kind of the opposite of the conflict I was envisioning? I like the idea of Obadiah as someone who's trying to further the interests of Stark Industries rather than a backstabber who works with terrorists, but him wanting Tony to turn over his technology to the government just compounds the weird libertarian ideological messaging that floats around the fringe of the Iron Man franchise, just like Iron Man 2 did in real life.

I want Stane to be the guy who's going after Tony because he thinks his idealism will ruin everything. I want him to make the case Tony himself made at the beginning of the film, that it's necessary to make weapons and kill others to create a free, orderly society. Because that forces Tony to contend on a deeper level with what he's been doing all his life and even what kind of a hero he wants to be as Iron Man. Is he just another kind of killer, as Stane thinks he will be? Or does he use his technological genius to lift others up instead of destroying lives?

 

[Nystical]

Every point you listed here is a point against a Wonder Man teaser especially if we go with your idea of effectively making Wonder Man a pseudo-Iron Man 2. I'm almost as against having the Wonder Man scene be in as I am the Whiplash stuff (Wonder Man is at least something different so it's slightly better).

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I disagree.

The Vanko credit scene explicitly ties into Stark industries, literally walking into the building and all.

The Simon Williams credit scene represents a businessman facing new competition, setting him up as a character in the marvel world, but that doesn't mean that my pitch for him has to be used, another pitch for Wonder Man could be done that doesn't involve Tony except as background detail that his company is partially responsible for Simon's initial money problems. The "revenge" angle could be dropped altogether. Wonder Man could discover that the Maggia is planning on using his family's tech to do {insert evil thing here, not having to relate to Stark Industries at all} and then Tony barely has any presence in the movie.

 

[King crimson]

To people voting for the Wonder Man post-credits scene I strongly urge you not to do so for this movie. Let's not lock ourselves into setting up the antagonist for the sequel to the Iron Man movie with a character that we do not currently own. Save the scene until we know for sure we have Wonder Man and can use the character and his name.

 

[Duke William of]

I mean I'd still much rather wait before pulling in another Iron Man character this early. It's not an awful idea but it still commits us to using a specific character/plot and an actor for that character ahead of time while we still have no idea how things will go. The more specific we are about the details the more we commit to and lock ourselves into which seems like a mistake this early on.

The idea is fine in theory but it's just kind of a commitment to have the credits scene of the movie set up the antagonist of a hypothetical sequel that we don't know when it will even fall or if it's absolutely the idea we want to go with. It's safer to commit to something different to start linking stuff together early and vaguely before going and pulling stunts like that.

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Oh, I just wanted to discuss this idea of mine with you and perhaps flesh it out with you. I'm changing my vote for the reasons you and @Nystical stated, so I just wanted to know if you were interested. I'm keeping the mid-credits scene idea in reserve, so I just want conversation.

 

[RomanceNinja]

To people voting for the Wonder Man post-credits scene I strongly urge you not to do so for this movie. Let's not lock ourselves into setting up the antagonist for the sequel to the Iron Man movie with a character that we do not currently own. Save the scene until we know for sure we have Wonder Man and can use the character and his name.

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Uh what? There is literally nothing online that would suggest that Wonder Man was ever bought by another studio. Like at all.

Nor does the actual informational post we have on what characters are owned by other studios.

 

[Kirook]

[X] [Obadiah] Make the suggested change; with Obadiah and Tony facing each other due to conflicting beliefs.

[X] [Mid-Credit Scene] Write In: Colonel Rhodes, returning to the Air Force base on which he's stationed, receives a distress call from a pilot who was forced to eject from her crashing fighter. We then cut away to the pilot stumbling away from the crash site. She makes her way to a nearby ridge to survey the area and is shocked to see an alien spacecraft landing in the valley below. In the last moments before the scene ends, the camera zooms in on her dog tags, revealing her name to be Carol Danvers.

 

[King crimson]

The Vanko credit scene explicitly ties into Stark industries, literally walking into the building and all.

The Simon Williams credit scene represents a businessman facing new competition, setting him up as a character in the marvel world, but that doesn't mean that my pitch for him has to be used, another pitch for Wonder Man could be done that doesn't involve Tony except as background detail that his company is partially responsible for Simon's initial money problems. The "revenge" angle could be dropped altogether. Wonder Man could discover that the Maggia is planning on using his family's tech to do {insert evil thing here, not having to relate to Stark Industries at all} and then Tony barely has any presence in the movie.

Click to shrink...

The post-credits scene you've written describes Simon Williams literally responding to Tony Stark's statements and revelations. While the tone is ambiguous because it's written the actor can't deliver the line both positively and negatively in the film. Either he's responding to Tony's entrance out of bitterness which then causes it to make no sense for Tony to be a non-entity in his movie or he's positive which cuts off the Wonder Man vs. Iron Man angle. We're committed to a certain kind of script either way.

I'll concede that the problems you brought up are not as severe in this scene but I will argue that they are still present in a diminished capacity. That being said I don't like being locked into having to use a specific actor for Wonder Man now when we don't know when the movie will be placed. If you had a way to rewrite the scene to not include Simon Williams physically appearing then I'd be more fine with it but as long as he's present and we're locked into an actor I'll take issue with it.

Oh, I just wanted to discuss this idea of mine with you and perhaps flesh it out with you. I'm changing my vote for the reasons you and @Nystical stated, so I just wanted to know if you were interested. I'm keeping the mid-credits scene idea in reserve, so I just want conversation.

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I'm fine discussing it yeah.

Uh what? There is literally nothing online that would suggest that Wonder Man was ever bought by another studio. Like at all.

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I misread something that made me think the reason why his name wasn't said was because we didn't have the rights to it. That's a goof on my part. I retract the issue of us not owning him as that was my mistake but I'd still like us to not preemptively lock in an actor for Simon Williams by showing him onscreen.

I personally would prefer we wait to put in this post-credits scene or it's altered in such a way so that we're not committed to a set actor.

 

[The Zog]

[X] Plan Butterfly Wings
-[X] [Obadiah] Make the suggested change; with Obadiah and Tony facing each other due to conflicting beliefs
-[X] [Mid-Credit Scene] Write In: The scene shows Phil Coulson speaking to his boss on the phone about the Iron Man situation. He talks about what a mess it was and that he's glad that it's over. The conversation concludes with a talk about how he hopes the situation with the hammer will be more easily resolved.

I really don't see the appeal of Wonderman and I'd rather follow KISS for phase 1 so a core character like Thor works best.

And while we should definitely have a female superhero let's all not forget the Ike Pearlmutter in the room.

 

[Magoose]

And while we should definitely have a female superhero let's all not forget the Ike Pearlmutter in the room

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Now I'm not saying we should tell him to F off we're going to bring in all the money and he should trust us…

But that seems like a bad idea… no?

How can we tell him to F off in the most polite way possible?

 

[Kirook]

Honestly, if we're doing Thor as our post-credits scene, why not just do the scene from Iron Man 2 that actually shows the hammer? Having a phone conversation about it just makes the whole thing more boring for no reason.

 

[kingreaper]

Why even separate them in the first place? That just seems ridiculous considering just how linked they are in the comics and the fact that she's practically his side-kick. And her being quite literally genetically altered by Hank Pym himself.

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Depends on the version of Wasp. As for why separate them? Because Ant-Man takes up room in the party - and he's not needed.

She's a better character if she's not "ant-man's sidekick". Maybe Hank Pym is just a scientist at this point and has yet to work out how Janet Van Dyne's shrinking works, or maybe he's retired from being a superhero, but either way I'd rather not have him in the big fights.

 

[King crimson]

Honestly, if we're doing Thor as our post-credits scene, why not just do the scene from Iron Man 2 that actually shows the hammer? Having a phone conversation about it just makes the whole thing more boring for no reason.

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Mostly because I didn't remember the scene in Iron Man 2. I think the problem of having it be too boring is solved if the camera pans and you see the hammer in question is Mjolnir. I'm willing to make that edit.

Also the post credits scene in Iron Man one was literally just Nick Fury talking to Tony and telling him he's not the only hero out there. So I figured another conversation could work but probably kept it too dry. I'll add in a line to have the camera pan to show Mjolnir but I think if the Nick Fury stuff is left in it works well because we now see exactly who Coulson was talking to and it makes the payoff of the Nick Fury reveal more substantial.

 

[The Zog]

Now I'm not saying we should tell him to F off we're going to bring in all the money and he should trust us…

But that seems like a bad idea… no?

How can we tell him to F off in the most polite way possible?

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With money most likely. Do something like have Black Widow or the Wasp show up in another movie in full costume as a secondary hero, hope their toys sell like hotcakes then use the success to force our vision through.

 

[Kirook]

Now I'm not saying we should tell him to F off we're going to bring in all the money and he should trust us…

But that seems like a bad idea… no?

How can we tell him to F off in the most polite way possible?

Click to shrink...

From a Collider article on the topic (https://collider.com/why-did-it-take-so-long-to-make-black-widow/):

What happened after 2016 that allowed the studio to finally move forward with a Black Widow movie? The likely culprit is the dissolution of the Marvel Studios Creative Committee in 2015. Up until then, movies produced by Marvel were overseen by the head of Marvel Entertainment CEO, Ike Perlmutter. In September 2015, Feige was able to work a restructuring that gave him the creative freedom to report directly to Disney studio chief Alan Horn. Perlmutter still had say over Marvel's slate of TV series (where creative control was given to Jeph Loeb), but the movies belonged to Feige. The studio quickly moved to greenlight two of their biggest hits, Black Panther and Captain Marvel, and by January 2018, the Black Widow movie had a writer with the studio hiring Cate Shortland to direct in mid-2018.

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We approved a plan that gives us Golden Tongue, so we may be able to convince Perlmutter to greenlight one female superhero movie. After that, if we're successful enough, we could get the Creative Committee dissolved earlier and go forward with more experimental and diverse projects than OTL's Phases I and II.

 

[kingreaper]

@overmind could we switch up the scene's order, so the existing one becomes mid-credit and the new one end-credit?