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The World Turned Upside Down - A 20th Century Nation Game (HIATUS?)

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Making this a separate post since tags don't work in edits, but there's going to be some wibbly-wobbly timey-wimey stuff re: just when Langdon's conference was, with regards to Virginia's ultimatum to Kentucky. I assume @Heavy W. Guy post about Arnett's installation was meant to take place prior to the game start, with @DonFitz ultimatum being a recent development, and on top of that we're technically still in 1991 (@ChaoticGenius is that right, or are there a few more events to cover before we officially turn the year over?).

Long story short, assume that Langdon's conference happened some time after the uprising that installed Arnett, but before Virginia's ultimatum, which is sort-of concurrent with the 1992 election.
 
Maugan Ra said:
*idly contemplates getting involved in the Northern America clusterfuck, as is his right as a superpower*

Alas that Kentucky lacks a maritime border and is, therefore, not capable of acting as gracious hosts to a few warships of Her Majesty's Royal Navy.
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The Mesopotamian operation is going well, but we do have our concerns about the Nicaraguan Canal.
 
Also, this setting like a lot of other NG settings tends to have a UN analogue that is basically intentionally designed to be as useless and ineffectual as possible.

That said, I'd actually be interested in subverting the "UN does nothing" stereotype that develops in NGs.
 
Heavy W. Guy said:
Also, this setting like a lot of other NG settings tends to have a UN analogue that is basically intentionally designed to be as useless and ineffectual as possible.

That said, I'd actually be interested in subverting the "UN does nothing" stereotype that develops in NGs.
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I'd like that too. Is there a General Assembly thread or do we just post stuff in that Security Council one?
 
Arthur Frayn said:
Making this a separate post since tags don't work in edits, but there's going to be some wibbly-wobbly timey-wimey stuff re: just when Langdon's conference was, with regards to Virginia's ultimatum to Kentucky. I assume @Heavy W. Guy post about Arnett's installation was meant to take place prior to the game start, with @DonFitz ultimatum being a recent development, and on top of that we're technically still in 1991 (@ChaoticGenius is that right, or are there a few more events to cover before we officially turn the year over?).

Long story short, assume that Langdon's conference happened some time after the uprising that installed Arnett, but before Virginia's ultimatum, which is sort-of concurrent with the 1992 election.
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I thought we were in 1991?

But regardless, it's meant to be a relatively recent event.
 
Heavy W. Guy said:
Also, this setting like a lot of other NG settings tends to have a UN analogue that is basically intentionally designed to be as useless and ineffectual as possible.

That said, I'd actually be interested in subverting the "UN does nothing" stereotype that develops in NGs.
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Yeah, AIUI the World Congress is meant to be the sort of bog standard NG "UN, but really more the League of Nations" international organization that says a lot but does relatively little. I'd also love to to see us subvert that, but for now let's roll with the idea that the Yankee's (who've only really joined the international community in the last forty years, after spending nearly a century laser focused on picking a fight with the Confederacy and maybe Canada) have some lingering resentment/suspicion of the institution.

Heavy W. Guy said:
I thought we were in 1991?

But regardless, it's meant to be a relatively recent event.
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Ah gotcha. In that case Langdon's press conference definitely takes place before both events.
 
bigseb31213 said:
How did the Egyptians even make it to Syria? Through Palestine I guess?




How is any of that different from real world Ukraine, which also did not have allies (other than Russia ironically)
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The Islamic Revolutionary Republic of Egypt was smart in that they realized that with Her Majesty's Navy occupied mainly in the Mesopotamian Republic, the C.A.Z., and the Americas, they could make a quick strike on the Syrian State to the surprise of all.

Arthur Frayn said:
Making this a separate post since tags don't work in edits, but there's going to be some wibbly-wobbly timey-wimey stuff re: just when Langdon's conference was, with regards to Virginia's ultimatum to Kentucky. I assume @Heavy W. Guy post about Arnett's installation was meant to take place prior to the game start, with @DonFitz ultimatum being a recent development, and on top of that we're technically still in 1991 (@ChaoticGenius is that right, or are there a few more events to cover before we officially turn the year over?).

Long story short, assume that Langdon's conference happened some time after the uprising that installed Arnett, but before Virginia's ultimatum, which is sort-of concurrent with the 1992 election.
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The year of 1991 will end tonight once the America's and the various minor regions are covered fully.

The Lone Taco said:
Hmm, glad to see someone could find some use for this scenario/TL.

Is Colombia open?
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The Republic of Colombia welcomes you, El Presidente. Do not mind the chaos that is the Confederacy of Central America. Unless, of course, you wish to.

Heavy W. Guy said:
Also, this setting like a lot of other NG settings tends to have a UN analogue that is basically intentionally designed to be as useless and ineffectual as possible.

That said, I'd actually be interested in subverting the "UN does nothing" stereotype that develops in NGs.
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Alex Costa said:
I'd like that too. Is there a General Assembly thread or do we just post stuff in that Security Council one?
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The World Congress in-character thread is meant for the General Assembly: the denotation of the Council was meant to show the power players in the World Congress, some of whom will be replaced next year.

In any case, if the answer participants intend to make a useful World Congress, allow me to fully welcome the movement.
 
The exact timeline in the former Confederacy is a mess. In-game Virginia is still barely setting up how to be a country, and even though we've done conventions and referendums and such it's mostly just using the pre-established infrastructure and was able to be done relatively quickly. But the actual de jure implementation is ongoing and I don't imagine it's been more than a year tops.

Since in-game I had already begun favourable negotiations with the Kentuckian government over their status I don't think the events in Kentucky could have been taken prior to the start of the game. I assume now that the negotiations were the action of the collapsing Confederate government in the state to seeking receive reinforcement, and that the Bluegrass Spring and Aung Sa-- I mean, uh, Caroline Arnett's assumption of power were ongoing alongside my timeline. In my response I thought that, like, completing the revolution has been within days/weeks. It can't of happened earlier or I would have had to issue an ultimatum as soon as the game began.

But that's just me. Oo and there was enough time to hold talks with Arrow.
 
ChaoticGenius said:
The Islamic Revolutionary Republic of Egypt was smart in that they realized that with Her Majesty's Navy occupied mainly in the Mesopotamian Republic, the C.A.Z., and the Americas, they could make a quick strike on the Syrian State to the surprise of all.
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Wait, they launched a *naval invasion*? That's...probably not going to go well if the Syrians resist at all and have things like tanks, because the Egyptians are going to be hard pressed to bring their own ships in
 
DonFitz said:
Since in-game I had already begun favourable negotiations with the Kentuckian government over their status I don't think the events in Kentucky could have been taken prior to the start of the game.
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You probably could have been holding favorable talks with one element of the government that wasn't really in sync with the rest of it. It's not like any post-confederate state is particularly organized
 
Also, the kind of buildup Egypt would have to do for an amphibious assault is almost impossible to conceal and unlikely to be uncontested: Britain can easily use airbases on Cyprus for interdiction and effective area denial even without a fleet presence.

I... don't see this situation having any outcome that doesn't result in a lot of dead Egyptian soldiers and minimal gains.
 
bigseb31213 said:
You probably could have been holding favorable talks with one element of the government that wasn't really in sync with the rest of it. It's not like any post-confederate state is particularly organized
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Or just the Kentuckian government pre-revolution "popular uprising"; they knew that things were shaky, so they figured buddying up with Virginia would help them shore up power. Instead, it just exacerbated the situation and lead to the fall of the government (or something).
 
Heavy W. Guy said:
Also, the kind of buildup Egypt would have to do for an amphibious assault is almost impossible to conceal and unlikely to be uncontested: Britain can easily use airbases on Cyprus for interdiction and effective area denial even without a fleet presence.

I... don't see this situation having any outcome that doesn't result in a lot of dead Egyptian soldiers and minimal gains.
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That would be why Egyptian and British officials are currently exchanging terse words behind the scenes at present, yes.
 
Also, since the turn is meant to roll over tonight and there are updates planned for the America's, @DonFitz could you modify your ultimatum to Kentucky to be vaguer? Otherwise we're going to have a military crisis right as the turn is rolling over, which means more work for @ChaoticGenius on top of what they're already writing up.

Or we could just fiddle with the timing again and just say that the ultimatum takes place in 1992...somehow.
 
KnightofTempest said:
The Mod has just said that there's no might about it. Even the opening blurb mentions that once Russia gets its act together its going to invade. They have nukes, Ukraine doesnt, nor does Ukraine have any way to get them. Ukraine apparently has no allies in spite of being independent for more than a decade.

Its been set up to fail.

Nothing else that's open seems appetizing, apparently Korea is still a Colony of Japan so I'd be subserviant to Tokyo on foreign policy which limits my ability to do a lot of stuff. Spain seems to be suffering from nationalism even though no one else has and brazil is a backwater with half its potential cut away.

All in all everything thats open sucks. I think I'd like to wait.
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Iran is open currently and could get more involved with the mesopotamia/ !NotIraq war

There is also the Peru-Bolivia Confederation,

And furthermore back to Ukraine, Britain and other nations would probably intervene on any kind of invasion.
 
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I don't have high hopes for my negotiations with Britain but I still remain interested to see what they say.
 
Arthur Frayn said:
Or just the Kentuckian government pre-revolution "popular uprising"; they knew that things were shaky, so they figured buddying up with Virginia would help them shore up power. Instead, it just exacerbated the situation and lead to the fall of the government (or something).
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I mean, the most ideal goal of the Buxton government probably would have been independence a la Texas with no attachment to a larger union. But as a landlocked state with a small population, they had no real chance of that, so joining the Commonwealths was their second choice.

The fall of the government didn't really have anything to do with the Commonwealths though, the most immediate cause was ordering the National Guard to repress the demonstrations with lethal force. A fair amount of repressive regimes that fail tend to fall at certain crucial moments where they are forced to decide between concession and repression. Buxton chose to try and crush the revolt with lethal force but the forces at his command were not willing to cross that line. And mind, this doesn't automatically make them paragons of democracy and freedom: many in the Kentucky National Guard were perfectly happy to beat up peaceful protesters, arrest them under spurious charges, and generally subvert the popular will, but "Now we want you to kill them" is a bridge too far.

In this regard, it very roughly and approximately parallels the fall of Syngman Rhee's government in 1960 in South Korea where the refusal of the ROK Army to crush the demonstrations against his regime was basically the last straw that caused the fall of the Rhee government.
 
bigseb31213 said:
Wait, they launched a *naval invasion*? That's...probably not going to go well if the Syrians resist at all and have things like tanks, because the Egyptians are going to be hard pressed to bring their own ships in
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Heavy W. Guy said:
Also, the kind of buildup Egypt would have to do for an amphibious assault is almost impossible to conceal and unlikely to be uncontested: Britain can easily use airbases on Cyprus for interdiction and effective area denial even without a fleet presence.

I... don't see this situation having any outcome that doesn't result in a lot of dead Egyptian soldiers and minimal gains.
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Do remember that last night's news broadcast was only the first part of a spiraling situation. Whether it is upwards or downwards will be revealed soon.

The Lone Taco said:
Does anyone have a problem with me shamelessly ripping an OTL figure for the presidency?
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Please give said person from our timeline the same respect I gave your original scenario: copy and paste as you please.
 
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