You also have to consider the outright genocide at first contact (first tribute fleet arrives) when not matching up to SL standards.
So - do not fight enough (or right), get genocided.
Fight to successful, get genocided.

That must be a unique set of circumstances to make that behavior justifiable.
It feels like they are actively culling species that are too weak (Wouldn't survive anyway? Removing temptation for others? Surprise Slaanesh bait?) and too strong (Too agressive? Could become a credible threat? Surprise Korhn bait?).
 
I'm not sure what you're getting at with the first paragraph. They're trying to curtail ???, and the Tribute System is the least bad solution they've found.

On changing the Tribute System: even quite recently, there's the Zlathbu Adjustment.
:facepalm:

I give up. I asked for any evidence that the Shiplords were trying to "curtail ???" through an alternate method than the Tribute System, and you pointed at all the times they used the Tribute System. I asked for any evidence that the Shiplords changed the Tribute System in response to something other than the Zlathbu, and you pointed at the Zlathbu Adjustment.

I simply cannot be assed to try and hammer enough reading comprehension and basic logic into you for you to understand that words mean what the words in question mean.


As to your final point, about the Shiplords not taking suggestions, there's substantial evidence they are, from species they think stand a chance.
Okay, then - where is that evidence?

None of the species that are supposed to have won free of the Tributary System have been shown to have any non-hostile interactions with the Shiplords - if that's your measure of success, how exactly are they supposed to engage with the matter? The Shiplords don't actually bother to explain themselves, and have been known to deliberately attack civilizations that go digging to try to find out - what part of that meshes with allowing input from anybody else?
 
I give up on this discussion. It's clear we're operating from different presumptions: me withholding judgement in the absence of historical information and assuming the best otherwise, while you're working from the evidence we have and assuming the worst otherwise.
 
I asked for any evidence that the Shiplords changed the Tribute System in response to something other than the Zlathbu, and you pointed at the Zlathbu Adjustment.
I can point to at least four other times: the next four stops in our expedition.

And if you want to discount things we haven't read yet, then we at least know about the Hjivin, and we have the words of the Shiplords themselves that it HAS changed over time even if we don't know the details of what it was like before.
 
The Shiplords have been around for hundreds of millions of years bare minimum.
No?
And if you want to discount things we haven't read yet, then we at least know about the Hjivin, and we have the words of the Shiplords themselves that it HAS changed over time even if we don't know the details of what it was like before.
One of the questions is then what has changed - the basic paradigm or just the fine details of handling?
 
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And if you want to discount things we haven't read yet, then we at least know about the Hjivin, and we have the words of the Shiplords themselves that it HAS changed over time even if we don't know the details of what it was like before.
The Shiplords freaked out over the Zlathbu building a solar collector specifically because they'd had past experience dealing with solar collectors with the Hjivin Sphere, so we know for a fact that the Hjivin predate rather than postdate the Zlathbu. Snowfire also mentioned that another of the five sites had more to do with the Hjivin Sphere, which leaves three more complete unknowns.

Even assuming that all three of those unknowns came post-Zlathbu and that all three represent further major changes in the Tributary system (neither of which can be guaranteed) - that's still only 4 events over the entire time between present day and the Zlathbu. We also know that that period is very large - long enough that the Shiplord relay captain whose perspective gave us our first mention of the Zlathbu considered it ancient rather than modern history.

We don't have hard numbers on exactly how long that'd be, but the argument that the Shiplords have tried "over and over and over" to produce an alternative based off of a single digit number of times worth mentioning over the course of a history best estimated in millions of years falls pretty flat. Especially when you consider just how much resources said single-digit number of attempts represents compared to the resource cost of building and maintaining the Tributary System across most of the galaxy over the same period of time.
 
The Shiplords freaked out over the Zlathbu building a solar collector specifically because they'd had past experience dealing with solar collectors with the Hjivin Sphere, so we know for a fact that the Hjivin predate rather than postdate the Zlathbu. Snowfire also mentioned that another of the five sites had more to do with the Hjivin Sphere, which leaves three more complete unknowns.
I don't think it was the solar collector being a solar collector that they were flipping out over. I think it was the weaponized gray goo, which could infect the whole galaxy if it were to escape the star system.

We don't have hard numbers on exactly how long that'd be, but the argument that the Shiplords have tried "over and over and over" to produce an alternative based off of a single digit number of times worth mentioning over the course of a history best estimated in millions of years falls pretty flat. Especially when you consider just how much resources said single-digit number of attempts represents compared to the resource cost of building and maintaining the Tributary System across most of the galaxy over the same period of time.
It's a single-digit number of the most insightful examples that shaped the Shiplords' worldview, but we have it straight from the mouth of a Shiplord, back during The Practice War, that they had tried everything they could think of, and the Shiplord in question hoped that we could succeed where they had failed so many times. I think we all know it's pretty clear that they've fallen into a pattern and are too hesitant to look for solutions that would be less restrictive than what they've already tried, but it would seem that there might be a good reason for their fear.

I wouldn't focus too much about resources. The Shiplords are clearly a post-scarcity society. They have the best logistics in the galaxy -- that's WHY they're called the Shiplords.
 
So just dropping in to let you all know that I'm still alive and working on this. I have no real explanations for the long radio silence. Or, I do, but I don't really want to liveblog about it. Life is life, studies are studies, you know the drill.

But I do have some good news! The update is done, and it'll be up tomorrow.
 
So just dropping in to let you all know that I'm still alive and working on this. I have no real explanations for the long radio silence. Or, I do, but I don't really want to liveblog about it. Life is life, studies are studies, you know the drill.

But I do have some good news! The update is done, and it'll be up tomorrow.
This year's been a decade, no need to apologize.
 
History in Sorrow
:Elil, start looking,: you ordered, and the Insight Focused bent immediately to the task as you turned to your daughter. :Iris, do you think you can help?:

She looked over at you, and something between a smile and a sob passed down the link between you. :I can, just…a moment, please?:

You reached out, settling a manipulator on the 'shoulder' of her Masque, the closest measure of affection to a hug that you felt you could make. :I'm sorry, love. I didn't mean to push.:

:I know,:
her voice was very small, strengthening like a fitful wind. :And I'll want a hug when we're safely unmonitored.:

:Of course,:
you said. What mother could have refused that request?

:But there was more to that display than just the audio-visual,: Iris continued, though not without a surge of gratitude for your reply. :I don't think Sidra or the other UI's saw all of it, but I couldn't not. Everything they did here, all the messages sent, the promises offered.: The small glyph representing a headshake flickered down the link.

:Failing here, in the way they see it as failure, hurt the parts of Shiplord society that built this place. And they weren't a small subset of their society; they can't have been. If they had, all that would have happened would have been destruction. There'd be no memorial.:

:And I wonder,:
the words fell away into a breath. :They asked us to seek another way, after saying they'd tried them all. We know that they see the Tribute fleets as almost a sacred duty, but nothing Insight ever found suggested that it was truly religious. This place isn't exactly a place of worship, not in any way that we might define it, but it fits the definition of holy.:

:I can't gainsay that,:
you admitted. Despite how the culture you'd grown to adulthood within was anything but what the pre-Sorrows society would term religious, or perhaps because of it, the terms of faith and religion had remained largely unchanged. :But I'm not sure I can see the star you're trying to point out here.:

:Look at this place, mom,:
Iris said gently. :I know what you can do, at least most of it. Look at the life they've rebuilt here, the recreation of a world dead longer than humanity has known sapience.:

:What am I looking for?:
You asked, yet even as you did you found the answer.

:To see if it's true.: your daughter sighed, moving away towards the central panel, her form shifting as she went. :I'll see what I can find inside the database. But I think your answer will be worth more.:

You let her go. She'd said her piece, and you trusted her like few others. If she said it was a good investment of your time, you believed it would be. Even if it was still a little odd to be on the other end of this conversation with your daughter. One of the joys of parenthood, you supposed.

:Before you do that, Mandy,: Vega's voice slid into your thoughts. :Mir and I are going to head back down, to see what they remember. There are two sides to this place, and no matter how real this one looks, we need to see what's down there, too. How they treat it will be just as important.:

It was probably more so, but you just couldn't face it. Not when you had others you needed to look to. Iris was stable for now, but it was a tenuous thing, held together by a flimsy weave of distraction. And then there was Kalilah, her presence a thing of boiling emotion, held in check only by a will that had endured the worst loss you could ever imagine. A loss mirrored in this place, and yet…

:Don't go there, Amanda,: her voice sounded in your mind, and you felt the edge beneath the quiet words. :I know who you are, what you've been. But please, don't.:

You sent the Unisonbound equivalent of a step taken back and received a very sad smile in return. :I know why we're here,: she continued, in that same fatal tone. :I know I can't simply level this place, like I wish I could right now.: Not that it was a matter of her incapability. Kalilah remained, with only one possible exception, the most singularly lethal human in your race's history. :But it doesn't stop me wanting to. For everyone we lost, and all the countless trillions more.:

:I'd like to say I understand, but we both know I can only come so close,:
you said haltingly, and a sound too harsh to be laughter filled your ears.

:They've been around for millions of years, Mandy,: she snapped out bitterly. :Even if we take them at their word, even if we accept that this is true, how many races must have died at their hands? A thousand? Ten thousand? A million? What was so special,: her voice cracked, and you reached out instinctively, grounding out the destructive power literally radiating from within the First Awoken's Masque.

:What was so special, that they were judged worthy? Their capacity for destruction? No, no, that can't be it. If that was the case, they'd have tried to talk to us after I burned away a third of their last attack fleet. Why was this,: she whirled, gesturing viciously towards the room's window, :worth remembering, Mandy? Why did they even care?:

:I don't know, Kalilah,:
you replied, tightly restraining the urge to offer comfort. You knew Kalilah well enough to know that would be the opposite of help. Despite how she'd changed, you could tell that much. :I don't know if any answer could ever be enough.:

:My daughter would have called me selfish, I think,:
this time her voice did break, and your breath froze in your throat. Kalilah had lost her entire family in the Week of Sorrows, you knew that. But she'd never spoken more on it, and you'd never asked. It had always been clear that any company in that pain wasn't welcome. Which meant that when you reached out now, you did so very carefully, in a wordless motion of curiosity.

:She came of age in the days when there were only the possibilities that the First Secret opened, and dedicated her life to them.: The words carried with them heartbreak too deep to be called sadness. :Which is why she was an officer on one of the Cartographer ships out beyond Sol when the Shiplords found us.:

That explained so much, as you twisted your hands together and struggled to find the words to reply.

:You... you were close, weren't you?: You managed it at last, watching the harsh expression your voice brought to her features. Such a stupid question, why had you asked it?

:She was my daughter, Mandy.:

I'm sorry. Those two words stuck in your throat as you watched her shoulders rise and fall with a deep breath.

:I miss her.:

The words seemed to surprise you both, as she spun on her heels to pace the length of the room. :I miss hearing her laugh, seeing her smile. I miss the joy of listening to her speak about things I thought I had endless time to learn, and so neglected then. And I wish,: the flow of words sliced away, into a silence as utter as it was oppressive. You couldn't truly understand, you'd never lost a child, or even the whole of your family. But you could come close.

:I wish I could tell her that I'm sorry. That I should have been a better parent, that... that if she could just see me now, then maybe she would…: The sentence wasn't finished, and you knew you couldn't do it for her.

:This is everything she ever wished for,: she sent at last. :To find new worlds, old worlds, places where life had touched and still did. And we're standing here on one, further than any living human has ever been from home and I-: She broke off.

The Masque didn't let Kalilah display any physical tells of the desolation you could feel pouring from her. No, desolation was too weak a word. If it had, then you imagine she would be shaking with the effort of remaining outwardly calm.

:I won't find her here.: It was the closest you'd ever heard her to tears. :I won't see her again, no matter how far we go.:

Then she shook herself, and you felt the veil of years and loss slip away, yet it felt somehow lessened. :I'm sorry, Amanda. It's been, it's been a long time.:

:It's fine,:
you told her smoothly. The feeling of a face smiling gently at you told you that she knew that wasn't quite true, but she let it slide.

:At least it's a nice view.: There wasn't much you could say to that. Except the truth.

:It's a real one,: you said. :What we can see around us is what this world used to be. Everything below, it's off, wrong. But here?: You made a sweeping gesture at the alien glade. :Here is true.:

:I suppose it is.:
She sounded calmer now, and you felt a wash of relief. :If anyone would know, you would, Mandy. I just have to wonder, was anything that Shiplord said the same?:

:Honestly?:
You didn't want for her to answer. :I'm not sure. I can only tell you what I feel. If you look for firmer answers,: you nodded towards where Iris and Elil were clustered around the holoprojector. :Look to them, Kalilah.:

:I will.:


The silence that fell afterwards was almost pleasant, like a velvet curtain drawn over the world, and it lasted a long time. Iris called you over eventually, seeking your advice on something that she didn't need help with, but had decided she wanted you there for. That was a good feeling.

You needed it, as the reality of this place slowly laid itself out before you. Iris and Elil delved deep into the tower's files, your daughter searching for any hidden storage, any areas that might contradict the initial presentation you'd watched. And Elil read and watched it all, his Unison Platform accelerating his perceptions to the point that they could keep up with Iris, if only barely.

The truth was a difficult one, especially when it would be so easy to wish for it all to be lies. Yet the further you dove, the closer you looked, the more and more it became clear that there was no lie. Not unless the entire place was one. Which left you at an impasse, both personally and as a leader. Vega and Mir would return to the shuttle once they were done, and the plan was to join them. But what would you do afterwards?

Vega could read the intent of a place far better than you could. You were better at the precise things, but she had a way of taking in the entire picture that you'd never seen matched. If she told you that the Shiplords who congregated below were true in their belief to the purpose that Kymri had described, you would not be able to dispute it. And the more you looked, the more you believed she would bring back just that message.

Yet if she did, did you have it within yourself to return to experience the same? You didn't know, and recognising that truth worried you. You'd accepted this mission with the premise that it might be possible to reason the Shiplords to a settlement. This place gave an example of them offering peace, at almost any cost. But only on their terms. You weren't sure that humanity could ever accept that. Terms from the Shiplords. You weren't sure you could, either.

It wasn't that you opposed peace. You wished for a peaceful universe, for a galaxy full of races that worked together for the benefit of all sentience. Where any and all were accepted, so long as they did not seek to bring harm upon the rest. A utopia, glorious and unrelenting. Humanity had found that within itself, and at a far younger age than the Shiplords. Yet you could still see the traces of some similar, ancient optimism in Kymri's recording.

What had changed?

You weren't sure. And you couldn't just ask someone here. No Shiplord would fail to recognise that as the question of an outsider, not after the second or third misstep that you would inevitably make. Practice gave you great power, but it granted at most limited clairvoyance, not omniscience. Yet one thing in the files, and the recording, drew your attention more than any other. Kymri had mentioned it, and further files and recordings that spoke for and against the actions of the Shiplords at this star did so too in places. The War of the Hjivin Sphere was not mentioned casually, but whenever the event's title did surface, it came with a weight that felt all too close to that of how your people spoke the Week of Sorrows. And with the right attention to detail, Elil had been able to roughly narrow down where the war had taken place.

There was only one hidden star system within that entire galactic quadrant.

You would be lying to yourself if you said that you didn't want to know more. But this wasn't just the whim of an inquisitive mind. There was... something else at work here. A calling, of a sort. One that you felt you must answer. That was an odd feeling. Your understanding of the universe had always led you down a path of understanding paired to insight, but this felt different. This felt like the universe was trying to guide you down a path to some greater understanding. Maybe that path would lead somewhere. Maybe it wouldn't.

But it was there.

What path does Amanda choose?
[] Return to the surface
-[] To see the remembrance of the Shiplords for herself.
-[] To uncover what secrets might hide within deep within the world.
[] Continue on
-[] to understand the War of the Hjivin
Sphere. (Original option: The star of this system is notably smaller and dimmer than it should be, yet appears to still be stable.)
-[] to a
red giant surrounded by a graveyard of shattered worlds.
-[] to the yellow sun, somehow twisted off its axis by some monumental stellar event. Three major planetary bodies remain.
 
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This took a lot out of me, and you can probably tell why. This is the deepest I've delved into Kalilah's past, and it gets nasty in there. But now you know at least a little of it, and part of why this was so horrifically hard for her to even watch what the Shiplords left behind. You also now know what one of your remaining target systems involves, which could be of interest to you. Many thanks to @Coda and @Baughn for beta-checking this for me. Questions to the usual address. Hope you're all keeping well, and happy voting.
 
[x] Return to the surface
-[x] To uncover what secrets might hide within deep within the world.

A difficult decision on which return option should have priority, but we have people seeing the remembrance already, so we can compare notes afterward.

But on the flip side: It's one thing to split the party when you're all within a single complex. If it had become necessary, we could have reunited. Having all of the big guns of the team go down into the bowels of the planet while other people are still in the facility? If something were to go wrong topside while we're gone, that could be a problem. The only reason I'm not weighting this more heavily is because the likelihood of things going wrong for the surface group seems pretty small at this point.

Zut alors! I have missed one! Sacre bleu, what is this? How on earth could I miss?
 
[] Return to the surface
-[] To see the remembrance of the Shiplords for herself.

I support this option.

What happened here, as a historical narrative, is simple enough. The Shiplords encountered a young race that (like us) figured out a defense mechanism capable of seriously knocking back their conventional forces. A slightly less genocidal Shiplord faction, previously unknown to us, tried to negotiate the young race's surrender, but they refused. So the Shiplords deployed a war fleet and blew everything up.

However, Kalilah has asked a very pertinent question: why? Why did the Shiplords bother to negotiate here, as they no longer seem to do today? It cannot be out of any true cosmic sense of fairness or humane conduct as we understand it, given that they continue to do as they do. This species must have seemed special to them, but why?

And what is the underlying motivation of all this- what the Hell do they think they're DOING?

To learn that, I think we need to know what the Shiplords themselves remember about all this, so that we will know what they were thinking.

A difficult decision on which return option should have priority, but we have people seeing the remembrance already, so we can compare notes afterward.
Hang on. Could you run that by me again? You're saying that, uh, Vega and ??? have already gone to do that? I must have missed something.

Also, speaking for myself, I don't expect what we'd learn from going deep to be all that helpful. It's likely to give us clues about the nanomass itself (admittedly potentially useful but likely hard for us to implement safely), since it seems fairly probable that the species that once lived on this world is so long dead that nothing relevant of them remains.

I'm a lot more interested in intel on the internal structure and thought processes of the Shiplords than I am in what, physically, is left of this place.
 
Hang on. Could you run that by me again? You're saying that, uh, Vega and ??? have already gone to do that? I must have missed something.

I can answer this. Vega and Mir went down, splitting the party as it were, to experience the Remembrance half of the memorial. You could still go down there and meet them, but it would be coming in late. You'd get some opportunities from that, but also miss others.

Something to note, that I'm realising we should have made clear in my customary AN post, is that the choice here is essentially one of do you stay or move on from this star system. You're free to explore as you wish right now, but there are some reasons to move faster. Sol is likely to get hit by its first War Fleet within the next week or so. This is a soft timer, of course. But that doesn't make it any less present. The big choice here is do you want to pursue more points of interest in this star system, or move onto the next in the hopes of discovering more of the picture.
 
Yanno, I bet the Shiplord answer to the diplomacy failures with the Zlathbu likely was?
That intrigue stuff they started doing- the power to basically mind-control/bodyjack/doppelganger people was likely part of the Zlathbu adjustment.
This probably is why the Shiplords have been SERIOUSLY upping their martial game against Humanity-they're going in blind, and they're scared of another Zlathbu that comes along and slaps the Shiplords in the face, provoking the war-hawks to go 'screw it it's us or them!' And well...
Practice.
Practice seems to lead towards communal coming together as a people, something that SCOFFS at things like 'cultural differences' or 'language barriers'...And also completely takes away their safety net. So now THEY are the ones scared and lashing out, because it's all about Power, if we have the power we will force them to kneel, and that would BREAK the Shiplords just as surely as their Tributary systems would traumatize us.
...That's what this whole trip is about. Finding a way to talk the Shiplords into NOT seeing this as a Us or Them death battle but de-escalating so that the gigantic space- polity doesn't get spooked enough to lose their minds and go feral enough to no longer listen. The problem is that the Gigantic Space-polity has a Gigantic Ego and Sword of Damasoles hanging over it from all the years of failed diplomacy.

And on that note, that gives this Quest-line a terrifying subtext.
That...If we don't figure out some way to move past 'the game of politics' 'me over them' or 'man shall dominate man to his own injury' in terms of schools of thought...The Shiplords and their Tributaries will become our future, instead of the Practiced Circles of Humanity. And well...
I have doubts we will not end up the Shiplords, in the long run.
 
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This probably is why the Shiplords have been SERIOUSLY upping their martial game against Humanity-they're going in blind, and they're scared of another Zlathbu that comes along and slaps the Shiplords in the face, provoking the war-hawks to go 'screw it it's us or them!' And well...
I'm not certain it was specifically the military threat of the Zlathbu in and of itself that frightened the Shiplords. Witnessed Ends put a great deal of emphasis on it being a particular technology that concerned them, not the military threat. ("None of us here today believe they set out to create them as a weapon.") You know how we converted Mercury into nanotech? The Zlathbu already had a super-gas-giant between 10 and 90 times the mass of Jupiter churning out nanomachines. ("Silver lanced up from the core of the lonely brown dwarf in the outer reaches of the star system, spreading with terrifying swiftness through its stormy clouds.")

But that wasn't enough for them. They were setting up the framework to do that with a star. ("The Zlathbu began to construct a scaffold around their star, something that could only be the beginnings of a stellar collector.") They probably weren't intending to convert the whole star into nanomass, but with nearly limitless solar power and 1000 times the mass of Jupiter in raw materials, it was infinite for any practical use. ("Their nanoforms, given time, had the potential for limitless growth.") The Shiplords were concerned that if that was turned to offensive use, it could be Very Bad, because of something they encountered at the Hjivin Sphere.

We don't know exactly what happened there, but the obvious guess suggests weaponized gray goo, which wouldn't just be a threat to the fleets the Shiplords sent to fight them, but a contagion: nearly undetectable from range, hard to fully wipe out, capable of independent space travel, capable of transforming any additional mass it comes across into more of itself. That isn't a military threat. That's an existential one.


EDIT: That said, the rest of your analysis does seem pretty likely. The Zlathbu demonstrated that overt diplomacy doesn't work with a race that thinks you've already been capricious and aggressive and, if the gray goo theory is correct, that military force alone might not be able to prevent something critical. I could believe that the Zlathbu Adjustment would have been about putting more focus on preemptive intelligence.
 
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We have Amanda's own perspective about taking terms echoing the conclusion of @me.me.here that the Shiplords are completely incapable of understanding species that have suffered cruel terms from their worst enemy. With their willingness to kill themselves when the tribute fleet lost I don't know what they would even fear enough to understand. Maybe feeding 90% of their population alive and incapacitated into the terror between the stars.

Has there been any discussion of the Uninvolved industrial capacity, and hunting the war fleets? If the Uninvolved idea of weapons approach gridfire, there should be no power limits on supplying much equipment through the void crystals.

Their transgalactic drive has strategic speed the Shiplords cannot escape. Enough drives to move a fleet and mobile orrey would allow attacking their fleets individually.

If we had a suitable weapon system we could perhaps even intercept the fleet on its way to earth. If the Uninvolved are only hesitating to protect habitable systems, maybe they would provide a "real weapon" to be used only in deep space against fleets in transit?

They mentioned something about how they restricted travel between stars to protect them. As in, protect the stars from the travel, so there might be some existential problem with ftl travel that the Shiplords are trying to prevent. Whether their own ftl is exempt from this I have no idea.

There were two "thems" in the sentence. Could be protecting the travelers from something about travel.

Also, speaking for myself, I don't expect what we'd learn from going deep to be all that helpful. It's likely to give us clues about the nanomass itself (admittedly potentially useful but likely hard for us to implement safely), since it seems fairly probable that the species that once lived on this world is so long dead that nothing relevant of them remains.

The planet seems to have been thoroughly shielded. I wouldn't count out the loyal nanotech having saved some things of value.
 
We have Amanda's own perspective about taking terms echoing the conclusion of @me.me.here that the Shiplords are completely incapable of understanding species that have suffered cruel terms from their worst enemy.
Not completely. If they were completely incapable, then we wouldn't be here right now. We stand in a monument to the Shiplords' capacity for understanding other species. They understood the Zlathbu, but that understanding did not give them insight into how to work with them.

Has there been any discussion of the Uninvolved industrial capacity
Theoretically infinite. Practically zero because they consider the costs to be unthinkable.

If the Uninvolved idea of weapons approach gridfire, there should be no power limits on supplying much equipment through the void crystals.
There is only one void crystal. It's part of our FTL drive now. It's unclear exactly how the drive was constructed but I surmise that the void crystal wasn't so much a conduit for the equipment itself as it was a conduit for a small amount of Uninvolved power to reach out and build the drive in realspace.

If the Uninvolved are only hesitating to protect habitable systems
The Uninvolved are hesitating to take overt action that can be traced back to them. They know the Shiplords can hurt them and it is only their noninterference that keeps them safe.
 
We have Amanda's own perspective about taking terms echoing the conclusion of @me.me.here that the Shiplords are completely incapable of understanding species that have suffered cruel terms from their worst enemy. With their willingness to kill themselves when the tribute fleet lost I don't know what they would even fear enough to understand. Maybe feeding 90% of their population alive and incapacitated into the terror between the stars.
I think it is a fair point- the Shiplords do not understand just how horrifying what they do IS to the rest of the galaxy, so while they can talk a good game about how what they do is 'bad' and they wish they weren't doing it... They don't get it on a visceral level.

Has there been any discussion of the Uninvolved industrial capacity, and hunting the war fleets? If the Uninvolved idea of weapons approach gridfire, there should be no power limits on supplying much equipment through the void crystals.

Their transgalactic drive has strategic speed the Shiplords cannot escape. Enough drives to move a fleet and mobile orrey would allow attacking their fleets individually.

If we had a suitable weapon system we could perhaps even intercept the fleet on its way to earth. If the Uninvolved are only hesitating to protect habitable systems, maybe they would provide a "real weapon" to be used only in deep space against fleets in transit?
I think the Uninvolved are also hesitating because the Shiplords have weapons that can harm them greatly or even exterminate them, somehow. Thus, handing us anything that would be so obviously an Uninvolved artifact, and one so blatantly a threat to the Shiplords, might well be unthinkable to them.

[Remember further that the Uninvolved are all racial gestalts of species that spent thousands of years being traumatized by the Shiplords. They may well have limits on what they are willing to do, as a product of massive abuse, that do not match the full limits of what they could get away with doing.]

The planet seems to have been thoroughly shielded. I wouldn't count out the loyal nanotech having saved some things of value.
Perhaps. On the other hand, the Shiplords have had millenia to search the place thoroughly. I suspect that anything down there is going to be hard to find, and digging deeper costs time. The War Fleet hits Earth in a week or so, and either it'll wipe Sol System out or it won't. If it does, we've lost. If it doesn't, we need to resolve this before the Shiplords escalate to the next logical steps of either:

1) Burning out all other intelligent species in the general vicinity to deprive us of allies, or
2) Deploying ALL the War Fleets, and/or other superweapons even more horrifying that they normally keep fully in reserve for the most dire of emergencies.

So time is a factor, and going on an archaeological deep dive isn't such a good idea to me right now.

If there was something quick and easy to be had from this (like the memories), I'd be willing to seek that out... but as noted, we'd be arriving late, we wouldn't get the whole picture, and Vega and Elil will be able to fill us in on most of what we could have learned from going there anyway.

I am now voting that it's time to move on.

[] Continue on
-[] to understand the War of the Hjivin Sphere. (Original option: The star of this system is notably smaller and dimmer than it should be, yet appears to still be stable.)

Notably, knowing as we do now that this war involved the use of "stellar collectors," it seems likely that it involved a race that used the Sixth Secret (or perhaps the Third, or both) to draw much of the resources of their own star to throw at the Shiplords.
 
And on that note, that gives this Quest-line a terrifying subtext.
That...If we don't figure out some way to move past 'the game of politics' 'me over them' or 'man shall dominate man to his own injury' in terms of schools of thought...The Shiplords and their Tributaries will become our future, instead of the Practiced Circles of Humanity. And well...
I have doubts we will not end up the Shiplords, in the long run.
Nah, humanity has make peaceful contact with plenty of other species. Keeping that up while killing only the monsters who think we'll thank them for liquifying humans to armor their ships with our still-toremented souls would but lightly stain our karma.
There is only one void crystal. It's part of our FTL drive now. It's unclear exactly how the drive was constructed but I surmise that the void crystal wasn't so much a conduit for the equipment itself as it was a conduit for a small amount of Uninvolved power to reach out and build the drive in realspace.
No, we made dozens before we left. Dozens of conduits for their practically infinite power to be used to construct advanced equipment.

Not completely. If they were completely incapable, then we wouldn't be here right now. We stand in a monument to the Shiplords' capacity for understanding other species. They understood the Zlathbu, but that understanding did not give them insight into how to work with them.
Incapable of useful understanding. They never tried offering enough resources for the Zblathu to secure their own security without trusting the Shiplords, or publicly destroying their own resources to prove they are not pressed militarily and that they actually believe their claims that they value the lives of the Zblathu and some unexplained threat justifies sacrificing things that they value, rather than the more obvious impression that they merely don't value the lives of other species.

The tribute fleet's loss suggests they are not completely opposed, but didn't think of it in time. Maybe the suicide of a losing fleet is actually part of the Adjustment, but if so it's a weak sign that they are willing to sacrifice as well, if it only happens when they are losing thoroughly anyway.
 
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or public mass suicide of as many Shiplords as their tribute fleets killed Zblathu

There are many things that could be considered reasonable to talk about as equivalent exchange. Or other valid mechanisms of diplomacy.

This is not one of them.

I'm going to have to ask you as your QM to rephrase or remove this statement. Being angered by what the Shiplords have done is fine. This suggestion starts brushing up against site rules, and I'm not having that here.
 
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There are many things that could be considered reasonable to talk about as equivalent exchange.

This is not one of them.

I'm going to have to ask you as your QM to rephrase or remove this statement. Being angered by what the Shiplords have done is fine. This suggestion starts brushing up against site rules, and I'm not having that here.
That wasn't a suggestion of equivalent exchange at all, but what gestures the Shiplords might have considered of their own volition to convince the Zblathu they were honestly trying to negotiate, if they actually believe their own claimed ethics.
 
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