The Secrets' Crusade
- Thread starter Snowfire
- Start date
- Original Sci-Fi
Snowfire
Polyglot of Chimera
- Location
- Wordcats
...okay wow I was made a total liar by myself here. Right.
There's relatively little you actually know for certain about this, but a few things stand out. First, the process of Contact becoming Tribute appears to have been a case of death by inches across millions of years. The Fourth Sorrow took place after the Teel'sanaha Peoples recognised the direction Contact was heading and went to war with the Shiplords over it.
A very specific and formal sort of war, restricted to certain battlespaces. But a war nonetheless.
As for your second point...best guess is that it's the endpoint of some truly twisted logic surrounding how the Shiplords see themselves as caretakers for something their only friends died to create.
Update is done. Will drop once betas are able to look at it.
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- Location
- PA
Oh that's easy.
'We are the caretakers of reality, you want us around so we can continue to do this. We will now accept your tribute to help us continue to do so.'
It's taxes to keep the government running.
Horrible, horrible taxes…
Two things without end, death, and taxes, and the Shiplords have merged both together.
No wonder they took to just taking it and leaving.
'We are the caretakers of reality, you want us around so we can continue to do this. We will now accept your tribute to help us continue to do so.'
It's taxes to keep the government running.
Horrible, horrible taxes…
Two things without end, death, and taxes, and the Shiplords have merged both together.
No wonder they took to just taking it and leaving.
That's probably what it became, but it likely started at a slightly more sympathetic "Never again. We've now come too close to the galaxy being destroyed twice; we won't allow it to happen again. And, because we don't know how to analyze xenos and understand their reasoning, and no other xenos can be trusted to do it for us, we're going to have to force their development along certain lines by giving their species the same sort of collective trauma that we know. This is the way."
And, with such reasoning at their back, the Shiplords become the third species that threatens to destroy the universe, not with a bang, but with a steady calcification into a static cycle of decay.
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Reactionaries
Snowfire
Polyglot of Chimera
- Location
- Wordcats
:Maybe…: The word flickered out into the link that had made you and Sidra into a Unisonbound. There was still fear, still doubt, but below and beyond it all was the terrible hope that had driven you to accept this mission in the first place. Sidra knew it better than anyone except maybe Mary, and with your dearest friend otherwise occupied at the moment, you turned inwards to the everpresent companion born of Practice and your own soul.
:Maybe?: Sidra's voice was a gentle thing of melded tones, the Unison Intelligence clearly just as thrown by what you'd witnessed. The prompt wasn't really necessary, but the question gave you something to attach your swirling thoughts to. Just as they must have intended. Why did that feel different somehow?
You let the thought slide away for now, but left a mental pin in it. Something told you it was important, or could be later. For now though, the world reasserted itself in a blur of crisscrossing conversation.
"Surely you can't think-" Niden was saying, his veil drawn tight around him, restraining emotion to terse outbursts flowing through his words.
Whatever else he'd meant to say was cut off by Krea, her own veil swirling with colours as it swam into patterns like fans or feathers all around her. There, you realised. There was someone like you. As separated as you were by oh so many things, there was no mistaking the vibrant passion of her movements, or the intensity of her hope.
"I know how impossible it seems, Ni." The gentleness of Krea's words surprised you, but the reasons couldn't be clearer. The other Shiplord had pulled in on himself even tighter in response to the most obvious display of emotion you'd ever seen from their kind. Could this be what shouting looked like for them? Not the sound, but the motions?
"I know, we all know, how unlikely it was that anything could come from this. The Sorrowful speaking. Ignore all the commentators, no one really thought we'd see something new. But now?" Fluttering motions tugged at her veil. "Now there is something new. Something none of the Authority could've seen coming.
"And maybe, maybe that'll come to nothing in the end," Krea sighed. "But I know you've watched the Zlathbu Condemnation; we did it together during our out-transit. The Hearthguard never talked like this then-"
"Don't you think I know that?" Niden snapped. His own veil surged into a thing of sharp angles, pain, fear for a future he could see playing out behind his eyes. "I know you mean well, Krea. I know you want this to be something good. But…you all heard the Sorrowful's words, right?"
Silent nods shifted veils in reply, and his own shifted from the closest thing to a panic attack you'd ever seen from a Shiplord to something a little more stable.
"Then please," he continued, "think about what they mean. The Hearthguard withdrew after the Zlathbu Condemnation-" there was no mistaking the capital letters this time "-because they recognised they couldn't win the argument with words. They weren't willing to take the step their Warden just committed them to, because if the Authority had stayed the course even then-"
"We understood, Niden," Everan's voice was soothing, a match to the patterns of his veil. Though looking closer, there were ragged edges there. "But there has to be some sort of middle ground, no? Something between hope and… and civil war."
Niden's veil spiked a few more times, as if fighting his attempts for calm, and you did your best to give the small group their privacy. Difficult enough when sitting together, even harder when your Focus could recognise the break in his thought process that had led him there. But you didn't get to follow that further, or find a distraction in Mir and Vega's silent conversation.
"What do you think?" It took you a moment to realise the question had been directed at you, or at least at your group. The question of how to reply circled your segment of the Heartcircle – none of you had caught the others up yet. The answer was simple; why not the truth?
"I think," you sighed. The tight hold you and Sidra had been keeping on the Masque's translation suite relaxed. "I think there's hope here, no matter how I wish it hadn't had to come to this."
None of that was false, though the reasons might be a bit more than the true Shiplords here would've been able to handle. You did wish it hadn't had to come to this. But mostly you wished that the Shiplords hadn't made this exact situation inevitable. You'd played a part in this exact result, but all the pieces of the scenario had been there for hundreds of millennia.
"Even if the cost," Niden started to say, but cut himself off. You made a motion analogous to a headshake.
"This was always going to be the cost," you replied. You didn't need to act out your sorrow for that, either. There had been better ways, all of them. "If this is what leads to us being better than what we've been for millions of cycles…I'm not sure I could object even if I wanted to."
"But-" Niden began, but Krea hushed him.
"She gave you her reply, Ni," she admonished gently. Something else passed between the two in those words, but you didn't clock any specifics. "What about the rest of your trio?"
"Much the same," Mir replied, a little hesitantly. He'd interacted comparatively little with any of the Shiplord envoys at the Sorrows and was still feeling his way through the odd courtesies and terms used even in an informal situation like this one. His Masque leaned a little towards Vega, and the Harmonial shaped hers into a smile, brushing one hand down to rest on a forearm of the younger Third.
"I worry, of course," Vega admitted easily. "But someday the Hearthguard were going to break. Maybe it's better to have that happen now. Pain is difficult, but the only way out of it is through. And if they're still as powerful as you think, then who knows. Maybe we could see some actual change."
"Dreamerkin," a voice sang, the same one that had called Krea much the same. You focused on the speaker, accessing the idents. Raine, apparently. "I worry myself. Making this now, making it about the current complications, I wonder if it'll not make FleetCom move faster. We've seen similar things before."
"Never with something like this," Thalim replied gamely, but there was a lack of fierceness in the reply. Their veil shifted towards the reconciliatory. "But it's easy for me to say that when nothing like it's happened before."
"Perhaps," you found yourself saying. "But that doesn't make the statement any less true. It just gives it flavour. And maybe…maybe that's what's needed?"
"What do you mean?" Everan asked.
:Mandy?: Vega asked carefully. It was far more than just a repetition of your name. Concern surged across the links between you, and it wasn't just Vega's, you realised. Mir was part of it too. You reached back, opening yourself.
:Trust me,: you sent, entwining a gestalt within the words. Enough to give them the picture of your intentions, at least. Nothing too far, you promised, but you'd only get so many chances to explore this. And only once whilst the reactions were this fresh.
"Maybe," you continued, Masque shifting tentatively. "Maybe what's needed is exactly what Thalim has called it. Something new, that forces exploration of a changed existence." You wondered for a moment how much these children knew about the war that had to be erupting across the galaxy at this point. Raine had mentioned complications, but what did that mean?
"Even if that exploration means," Niden's veil shook for a second, as if the very idea of internal conflict was beyond his ability to speak.
"I don't think the Hearthguard wants to fight the rest of Shiplord society." In truth, you weren't sure at all. Kicha's knowledge at the Third had spoken of deep wells of influence within Shiplord society, but there was no baseline for you to measure it against. "But these Sorrows, do you really think they're working?"
:Careful, Mandy,: Vega sent. This was a risky line, but you wanted…you needed to see what they would say. The sudden silence spoke volumes, and every passing second deepened it. Network traffic between the small group of Shipteens had exploded upwards, and that was just the sections you could detect.
"No," Everan finally said for the group. His Masque had tightened like Niden's, but it felt more like resolution than panic. You hoped they'd forgive you for what you realised you'd just done. They'd all been circling the realisation, but you'd shoved it into their faces. That something truly was broken inside the civilisation they called home. The only civilisation they'd ever known.
"No," Everan repeated. His veil shimmered with something like moisture, flares of colour you struggled to track. Deep wells here. "If they were, the Sorrowful wouldn't have done this."
"I take it back," Raine said softly, her veil darting into a trio of points, one levelled at each of you. "Dreamerkin only dream. Changers. Wishers."
"Is it wrong to wish?" You asked.
"No." She gave the reply no emphasis. "But wishes can be dangerous. The Consolat taught us that."
The admission sideswiped you. You'd known that the Shiplords had to know the truth of the Secrets, and likely far more than you. But for their youth to know…
"No one's arguing that," Vega said as you grappled the thought aside. Not now. "Change is a risk, we all understand that. But sometimes it's a risk that needs to be taken."
"Whilst that can be true, it'll need confirmation first," Everan pointed out.
"Yes, yes," Krea said quickly. "But that doesn't change how important the action is on its own, does it? How much it means. I know we don't all agree on what it means, but surely the scale is something we can agree on."
"That, yes," Niden agreed. Curiously, there was no reluctance in his acceptance. "I'm not sure anyone really knows how much power the Hearthguard still has left, and that's a statement of it in itself."
"Don't forget." Raine's veil moved as she spoke, paling as it formed a rippling overlap of uncertainty. "There are many sleepers."
"You think this could rouse them?" Thalim was the one to ask the question, but they weren't lone in the shift to their veil. There was anticipation there, but touched by something very close to fear.
Raine nodded with her veil. "Some," she added a moment later. "Many? Hard to know."
You noted that statement with silent interest. Ever since the presence of large-scale Storage operations had been confirmed, you'd wondered if there were enough to actually make a difference. The hesitance here told you a lot. Most simply that yes, there were enough whiling away the endless millennia in quiet sleep or virtual dreams to matter.
"Change either way," Everan said. His attention had turned back to his group, but some of it remained on you. "Maybe necessary, but who's to say what necessary will mean in this case. Or how long it'll take for it to be determined."
There was one bright side. The Shiplord military would, no doubt, have few compunctions about deploying in full force against rebellions sweeping across the galaxy. But what Kicha had done in binding her and her faction's compliance to that broader crisis would delay any true decision. And if they refused to listen…
Niden's fear felt very real. He was young, you knew that, but that didn't make him stupid. If he truly believed that the Hearthguard were capable of escalating their resistance – and none of the rest had disagreed - you had to weigh the possibility seriously.
But it still left you with a much more important question. What did you do now?
Vega and Mir wanted to stay and continue the conversation, and you could sympathise. There were more questions that could be asked, you were sure. But there were also the others here, and their tasks. How a Tribute Fleet officer would react to this, for example.
No best option. But you had to pick one.
What next?
[] Ask the Shipteens more questions.
-[] Write-in questions.
[] Return to another group within the forum
-[] Mary, Kalilah and Lea, who were wandering the enormous central galleries of the museum.
-[] Iris, who'd gone to speak with a Tribute Fleet officer.
[] Leave the forum
-[] To ask more of the Last Memory's interface?
--[] Write-in questions
-[] Return to the Adamant to assess and plan your next move.
If you return to the Adamant you will not be able to return to the Last Memory.
:Maybe?: Sidra's voice was a gentle thing of melded tones, the Unison Intelligence clearly just as thrown by what you'd witnessed. The prompt wasn't really necessary, but the question gave you something to attach your swirling thoughts to. Just as they must have intended. Why did that feel different somehow?
You let the thought slide away for now, but left a mental pin in it. Something told you it was important, or could be later. For now though, the world reasserted itself in a blur of crisscrossing conversation.
"Surely you can't think-" Niden was saying, his veil drawn tight around him, restraining emotion to terse outbursts flowing through his words.
Whatever else he'd meant to say was cut off by Krea, her own veil swirling with colours as it swam into patterns like fans or feathers all around her. There, you realised. There was someone like you. As separated as you were by oh so many things, there was no mistaking the vibrant passion of her movements, or the intensity of her hope.
"I know how impossible it seems, Ni." The gentleness of Krea's words surprised you, but the reasons couldn't be clearer. The other Shiplord had pulled in on himself even tighter in response to the most obvious display of emotion you'd ever seen from their kind. Could this be what shouting looked like for them? Not the sound, but the motions?
"I know, we all know, how unlikely it was that anything could come from this. The Sorrowful speaking. Ignore all the commentators, no one really thought we'd see something new. But now?" Fluttering motions tugged at her veil. "Now there is something new. Something none of the Authority could've seen coming.
"And maybe, maybe that'll come to nothing in the end," Krea sighed. "But I know you've watched the Zlathbu Condemnation; we did it together during our out-transit. The Hearthguard never talked like this then-"
"Don't you think I know that?" Niden snapped. His own veil surged into a thing of sharp angles, pain, fear for a future he could see playing out behind his eyes. "I know you mean well, Krea. I know you want this to be something good. But…you all heard the Sorrowful's words, right?"
Silent nods shifted veils in reply, and his own shifted from the closest thing to a panic attack you'd ever seen from a Shiplord to something a little more stable.
"Then please," he continued, "think about what they mean. The Hearthguard withdrew after the Zlathbu Condemnation-" there was no mistaking the capital letters this time "-because they recognised they couldn't win the argument with words. They weren't willing to take the step their Warden just committed them to, because if the Authority had stayed the course even then-"
"We understood, Niden," Everan's voice was soothing, a match to the patterns of his veil. Though looking closer, there were ragged edges there. "But there has to be some sort of middle ground, no? Something between hope and… and civil war."
Niden's veil spiked a few more times, as if fighting his attempts for calm, and you did your best to give the small group their privacy. Difficult enough when sitting together, even harder when your Focus could recognise the break in his thought process that had led him there. But you didn't get to follow that further, or find a distraction in Mir and Vega's silent conversation.
"What do you think?" It took you a moment to realise the question had been directed at you, or at least at your group. The question of how to reply circled your segment of the Heartcircle – none of you had caught the others up yet. The answer was simple; why not the truth?
"I think," you sighed. The tight hold you and Sidra had been keeping on the Masque's translation suite relaxed. "I think there's hope here, no matter how I wish it hadn't had to come to this."
None of that was false, though the reasons might be a bit more than the true Shiplords here would've been able to handle. You did wish it hadn't had to come to this. But mostly you wished that the Shiplords hadn't made this exact situation inevitable. You'd played a part in this exact result, but all the pieces of the scenario had been there for hundreds of millennia.
"Even if the cost," Niden started to say, but cut himself off. You made a motion analogous to a headshake.
"This was always going to be the cost," you replied. You didn't need to act out your sorrow for that, either. There had been better ways, all of them. "If this is what leads to us being better than what we've been for millions of cycles…I'm not sure I could object even if I wanted to."
"But-" Niden began, but Krea hushed him.
"She gave you her reply, Ni," she admonished gently. Something else passed between the two in those words, but you didn't clock any specifics. "What about the rest of your trio?"
"Much the same," Mir replied, a little hesitantly. He'd interacted comparatively little with any of the Shiplord envoys at the Sorrows and was still feeling his way through the odd courtesies and terms used even in an informal situation like this one. His Masque leaned a little towards Vega, and the Harmonial shaped hers into a smile, brushing one hand down to rest on a forearm of the younger Third.
"I worry, of course," Vega admitted easily. "But someday the Hearthguard were going to break. Maybe it's better to have that happen now. Pain is difficult, but the only way out of it is through. And if they're still as powerful as you think, then who knows. Maybe we could see some actual change."
"Dreamerkin," a voice sang, the same one that had called Krea much the same. You focused on the speaker, accessing the idents. Raine, apparently. "I worry myself. Making this now, making it about the current complications, I wonder if it'll not make FleetCom move faster. We've seen similar things before."
"Never with something like this," Thalim replied gamely, but there was a lack of fierceness in the reply. Their veil shifted towards the reconciliatory. "But it's easy for me to say that when nothing like it's happened before."
"Perhaps," you found yourself saying. "But that doesn't make the statement any less true. It just gives it flavour. And maybe…maybe that's what's needed?"
"What do you mean?" Everan asked.
:Mandy?: Vega asked carefully. It was far more than just a repetition of your name. Concern surged across the links between you, and it wasn't just Vega's, you realised. Mir was part of it too. You reached back, opening yourself.
:Trust me,: you sent, entwining a gestalt within the words. Enough to give them the picture of your intentions, at least. Nothing too far, you promised, but you'd only get so many chances to explore this. And only once whilst the reactions were this fresh.
"Maybe," you continued, Masque shifting tentatively. "Maybe what's needed is exactly what Thalim has called it. Something new, that forces exploration of a changed existence." You wondered for a moment how much these children knew about the war that had to be erupting across the galaxy at this point. Raine had mentioned complications, but what did that mean?
"Even if that exploration means," Niden's veil shook for a second, as if the very idea of internal conflict was beyond his ability to speak.
"I don't think the Hearthguard wants to fight the rest of Shiplord society." In truth, you weren't sure at all. Kicha's knowledge at the Third had spoken of deep wells of influence within Shiplord society, but there was no baseline for you to measure it against. "But these Sorrows, do you really think they're working?"
:Careful, Mandy,: Vega sent. This was a risky line, but you wanted…you needed to see what they would say. The sudden silence spoke volumes, and every passing second deepened it. Network traffic between the small group of Shipteens had exploded upwards, and that was just the sections you could detect.
"No," Everan finally said for the group. His Masque had tightened like Niden's, but it felt more like resolution than panic. You hoped they'd forgive you for what you realised you'd just done. They'd all been circling the realisation, but you'd shoved it into their faces. That something truly was broken inside the civilisation they called home. The only civilisation they'd ever known.
"No," Everan repeated. His veil shimmered with something like moisture, flares of colour you struggled to track. Deep wells here. "If they were, the Sorrowful wouldn't have done this."
"I take it back," Raine said softly, her veil darting into a trio of points, one levelled at each of you. "Dreamerkin only dream. Changers. Wishers."
"Is it wrong to wish?" You asked.
"No." She gave the reply no emphasis. "But wishes can be dangerous. The Consolat taught us that."
The admission sideswiped you. You'd known that the Shiplords had to know the truth of the Secrets, and likely far more than you. But for their youth to know…
"No one's arguing that," Vega said as you grappled the thought aside. Not now. "Change is a risk, we all understand that. But sometimes it's a risk that needs to be taken."
"Whilst that can be true, it'll need confirmation first," Everan pointed out.
"Yes, yes," Krea said quickly. "But that doesn't change how important the action is on its own, does it? How much it means. I know we don't all agree on what it means, but surely the scale is something we can agree on."
"That, yes," Niden agreed. Curiously, there was no reluctance in his acceptance. "I'm not sure anyone really knows how much power the Hearthguard still has left, and that's a statement of it in itself."
"Don't forget." Raine's veil moved as she spoke, paling as it formed a rippling overlap of uncertainty. "There are many sleepers."
"You think this could rouse them?" Thalim was the one to ask the question, but they weren't lone in the shift to their veil. There was anticipation there, but touched by something very close to fear.
Raine nodded with her veil. "Some," she added a moment later. "Many? Hard to know."
You noted that statement with silent interest. Ever since the presence of large-scale Storage operations had been confirmed, you'd wondered if there were enough to actually make a difference. The hesitance here told you a lot. Most simply that yes, there were enough whiling away the endless millennia in quiet sleep or virtual dreams to matter.
"Change either way," Everan said. His attention had turned back to his group, but some of it remained on you. "Maybe necessary, but who's to say what necessary will mean in this case. Or how long it'll take for it to be determined."
There was one bright side. The Shiplord military would, no doubt, have few compunctions about deploying in full force against rebellions sweeping across the galaxy. But what Kicha had done in binding her and her faction's compliance to that broader crisis would delay any true decision. And if they refused to listen…
Niden's fear felt very real. He was young, you knew that, but that didn't make him stupid. If he truly believed that the Hearthguard were capable of escalating their resistance – and none of the rest had disagreed - you had to weigh the possibility seriously.
But it still left you with a much more important question. What did you do now?
Vega and Mir wanted to stay and continue the conversation, and you could sympathise. There were more questions that could be asked, you were sure. But there were also the others here, and their tasks. How a Tribute Fleet officer would react to this, for example.
No best option. But you had to pick one.
What next?
[] Ask the Shipteens more questions.
-[] Write-in questions.
[] Return to another group within the forum
-[] Mary, Kalilah and Lea, who were wandering the enormous central galleries of the museum.
-[] Iris, who'd gone to speak with a Tribute Fleet officer.
[] Leave the forum
-[] To ask more of the Last Memory's interface?
--[] Write-in questions
-[] Return to the Adamant to assess and plan your next move.
If you return to the Adamant you will not be able to return to the Last Memory.
Snowfire
Polyglot of Chimera
- Location
- Wordcats
And here we are, the reactions I (hope) you've all been waiting for. This is a short one, I know, but I hope you'll forgive that. The Shipteens are trying to handle their own responses, and it makes Mandy want to be gentler. They are, after all, children.
Thanks again to my betas for getting these checks done so quickly. Happy voting.
Oh, and can two people please roll me a 1d4! Thanks ^^
Thanks again to my betas for getting these checks done so quickly. Happy voting.
Oh, and can two people please roll me a 1d4! Thanks ^^
- Location
- San Ramon, CA
Mystery Rolling?
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Leaving towards moving on, either towards something here or something elsewhere entirely
Let's see if I can get this to work
Let's see if I can get this to work
Thanks for the update!
I'm kind of leaning towards the Tribute Fleet officer because it seems we could get good, important feedback at some risk there with regard to current news in addition to the benefits of learning more about the fleet culture etc. I am a little concerned about how that talk would go though.
Any further questions for this group? We might be able to squeeze Shiplord society's current thoughts on the Consolat from them if we ask right.
I'm kind of leaning towards the Tribute Fleet officer because it seems we could get good, important feedback at some risk there with regard to current news in addition to the benefits of learning more about the fleet culture etc. I am a little concerned about how that talk would go though.
Any further questions for this group? We might be able to squeeze Shiplord society's current thoughts on the Consolat from them if we ask right.
- Location
- Florida
[X] Return to another group within the forum
-[X] Iris, who'd gone to speak with a Tribute Fleet officer.
More shipteens could be fun but a Tribute Fleet officer in this situation sounds spicy.
-[X] Iris, who'd gone to speak with a Tribute Fleet officer.
More shipteens could be fun but a Tribute Fleet officer in this situation sounds spicy.
- Location
- San Ramon, CA
[X] Return to another group within the forum
-[X] Iris, who'd gone to speak with a Tribute Fleet officer.
I think the fact that the Shipteens have the capacity to say "This isn't really working" has helped a lot in viewing the Shiplords in general as "people who are trying, if failing, to do their best" instead of "obstacles that need to stop or die and I don't care which".
-[X] Iris, who'd gone to speak with a Tribute Fleet officer.
I think the fact that the Shipteens have the capacity to say "This isn't really working" has helped a lot in viewing the Shiplords in general as "people who are trying, if failing, to do their best" instead of "obstacles that need to stop or die and I don't care which".
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Yeah. Like, their civilians are actually capable of reflecting on this stuff, even if it's easier for Shipteens who aren't millennia old and haven't poured concrete over their racial neuroses.
SaltyWaffles
I am dissapoint, son
- Pronouns
- He/Him
...perhaps one should point out that if you don't consider it worthwhile to have a civil war to take a stand against endless atrocity, that kind of makes you complicit when all other avenues have been thoroughly exhausted for a long time?
Well, not that it has to escalate to civil war right from the start; just building up a faction and making your adamant stance known, with the threat of civil war if the other side doesn't back down, could work.
Because all of that hand-wringing about how awful Shiplord civil war would be rings especially hollow considering how many xenocides the Shiplords have committed for so long (and how many they are attempting to do right now)--like the Shiplords are, in fact, the ones with freedom, safety, and luxury who would sooner wipe out anyone who could possibly criticize them than work harder to safeguard the galaxy while still allowing other races to exist for more than a relatively brief amount of time.
The core of the matter is that if the Authority won't back down from its stance of endless xenocide/atrocity (which it is enacting on a galactic scale even now), then the rest of Shiplord society either needs to stand up and fight against them (and side with the other races fighting to survive) or accept that they would rather be complicit in such atrocity so that they don't have to put up with the danger, burden, and difficulty of fighting against a faction of their own people.
...because the latter option is what they've been doing for hundreds of thousands/millions of years. The only exception to that now is the youth, and the Hearthguard somewhat (they consider the duty of maintaining the Sorrows to be of vital importance, which is understandable).
Shiplords: "Having a civil war over the matter of commiting endless atrocity would be horrifying! Almost unthinkable!"
Humans: "...heavens forbid you suffer at all for the sake of putting a stop to endless galactic xenocide, terrorism, and atrocity after millions of years of complacency. I'm sure the next set of races you ruthlessly wipe out for the crime of existing will really care about your slight misgivings about your atrocities that you never actually act on."
Well, not that it has to escalate to civil war right from the start; just building up a faction and making your adamant stance known, with the threat of civil war if the other side doesn't back down, could work.
Because all of that hand-wringing about how awful Shiplord civil war would be rings especially hollow considering how many xenocides the Shiplords have committed for so long (and how many they are attempting to do right now)--like the Shiplords are, in fact, the ones with freedom, safety, and luxury who would sooner wipe out anyone who could possibly criticize them than work harder to safeguard the galaxy while still allowing other races to exist for more than a relatively brief amount of time.
The core of the matter is that if the Authority won't back down from its stance of endless xenocide/atrocity (which it is enacting on a galactic scale even now), then the rest of Shiplord society either needs to stand up and fight against them (and side with the other races fighting to survive) or accept that they would rather be complicit in such atrocity so that they don't have to put up with the danger, burden, and difficulty of fighting against a faction of their own people.
...because the latter option is what they've been doing for hundreds of thousands/millions of years. The only exception to that now is the youth, and the Hearthguard somewhat (they consider the duty of maintaining the Sorrows to be of vital importance, which is understandable).
Shiplords: "Having a civil war over the matter of commiting endless atrocity would be horrifying! Almost unthinkable!"
Humans: "...heavens forbid you suffer at all for the sake of putting a stop to endless galactic xenocide, terrorism, and atrocity after millions of years of complacency. I'm sure the next set of races you ruthlessly wipe out for the crime of existing will really care about your slight misgivings about your atrocities that you never actually act on."
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- Location
- Ekaterinburg, Russia
This isn't entirely serious, but even if this doesn't win it would be a grand gift for me if this is written out as a What-if.
[X] Ask the Shipteens more questions.
-[X] Write-in: there exists a world that may give us more answers and perhaps help us in resolving this crisis. Would you like to visit it alongside with ourselves?
This is supposed to be an invitation for the Shipteens to visit the homeworld of the Consolat.
Mostly because I would find it poetic if we offer the invitation, if it is accepted, and if the one to find the answer we seek (or the clues to it at least) is not one of the Humans... But one of the Shipteens.
[X] Ask the Shipteens more questions.
-[X] Write-in: there exists a world that may give us more answers and perhaps help us in resolving this crisis. Would you like to visit it alongside with ourselves?
This is supposed to be an invitation for the Shipteens to visit the homeworld of the Consolat.
Mostly because I would find it poetic if we offer the invitation, if it is accepted, and if the one to find the answer we seek (or the clues to it at least) is not one of the Humans... But one of the Shipteens.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Yes.
On the other hand, it's kind of a "and yet, you participate in society" kind of complicity.
If someone else raises the banner of civil war, and you sit with folded hands, that's something approximating an active choice. But here, all the Shiplords with pangs of conscience are suffering a collective action problem, and I can't help but remember all the other collective action problems in Humanity 0.3.5 or 0.9 or 1.0 or whatever we're on in real life.
Snowfire
Polyglot of Chimera
- Location
- Wordcats
Remember that you're currently trying not to out yourselves as humans.
Also these people are kids. They're justifiably terrified of their entire world coming apart around them. Disregarding this isn't something Amanda is capable of doing.
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- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Yes, but while there are excellent and compelling reasons why we can't do that...
...There is a certain charm in the idea of the plucky Shipteenagers discovering secret aliens who have learned great secrets and deciding to go with them to the one place where perhaps all of this can be put right.
That's not the story we're in, perhaps, but it's still a story with charm in its own right.
Baughn
Healing-type writer
- Location
- Dublin
We're looking at a bunch of kids, who did not cause the horrors, who never wanted them and would (and probably have) voted against them whenever possible, and who just happen to have been born into the polity that's perpetrating them.
They did not get to choose whether or not they wanted to be Shiplords. They can't leave, and they can't magically fix things either. They're trapped, every bit as much as the rest of the galaxy, but in a situation where doing the right thing is overwhelmingly likely to get them imprisoned or dead.
"Doing the right thing" here isn't some sort of minimum standard. Not under those circumstances; not when it requires you to martyr yourself. I'm... honestly a little baffled that has to be stated, but if you need an emotional basis for it, imagine Iris or Michiru in the position of one of these teens, or--pick your favorite, nicest person from your favorite story, whichever. It is absolutely predictable that there are children every bit as clever, nice, and empathetic as -- well, Mikki anyway -- inside Shiplord society.
Being worried that the universe is going to destroy them isn't some sort of awful moral failing.
It isn't even just desserts. They didn't do it. They're victims, just as much as the people the Shiplords have been killing.
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Snowfire
Polyglot of Chimera
- Location
- Wordcats
The problem with this is that it absolutely requires revealing who and what you are if they say yes. There's no way around it. Now...yes, you could vote to do that. I will let you.
But...let me put this clearly. As your QM, I ask you: are you sure you want to do this?
Baughn
Healing-type writer
- Location
- Dublin
You know, I believe I still have an omake ticket from way back.
Vortex279
Changer of Fate, Seeker of Donuts
- Location
- Del Rio, Texas
God, the thought of this path is soooo tempting! I'll admit, for a second there in the chapter, I thought the Masque was coming down already. To be honest, I don't know if revealing here would be a good or bad thing for our plucky band of adventurer's, but the "IMPACT" it would have on Shiplord society would be profound. Think of it, all of a sudden, the newest tribute race that has figuratively and literally raced through the challenges all the way up to a war fleet shows up after having a deep and informative discussion with some of the young of the shiplord race as well as the Hearthguard members. They have done no harm, and have even convinced the last Hearthguard they spoke to to take a chance on them being capable of potentially fixing the greatest wound in Shiplord psyche that exists extant!
If this all passed around, well, the effects of it would be far reaching. Good or bad? I'll leave that up to you all and our illustrious QM, which by the way, I have a question for them. @Snowfire, just how much attention is on our crew at Last Memory? I'm trying to picture in my head the current crowd, but I'm having difficulty picturing the scope of the chamber and place they are currently positioned in.
[X] Return to another group within the forum
-[X] Iris, who'd gone to speak with a Tribute Fleet officer.
Ugly though that conversation may end up being, it doesn't seem like a viewpoint we can reasonably just ignore. Maybe double check that Kalilah is busy somewhere else, though; this might be stressful.
-[X] Iris, who'd gone to speak with a Tribute Fleet officer.
Ugly though that conversation may end up being, it doesn't seem like a viewpoint we can reasonably just ignore. Maybe double check that Kalilah is busy somewhere else, though; this might be stressful.
Torgamous
Aspiring Gynoid
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Most of the really bonkers shit the Shiplords have been getting up to got yadda yadda'd past between Sorrows, so we kinda need a Shiplord on board when we start trying to untangle stuff at Origin so we don't run aground on "yes, obviously any halfway sensible person would respond to this by not doing genocide, but as it turns out..."
Also, the reason Iris is handling the retired genocidist alone is that she's the only one with any sort of distance from his crimes. That has not changed. We should trust Iris to handle it and do literally anything else.
Also, the reason Iris is handling the retired genocidist alone is that she's the only one with any sort of distance from his crimes. That has not changed. We should trust Iris to handle it and do literally anything else.
SaltyWaffles
I am dissapoint, son
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I will admit that I am really tempted to bring along some Shiplords for our mission--probably members of the Hearthguard, maybe the Shipteens if they're willing, etc.. Either one could be quite valuable as both perspective and legitimacy when the Hearthguard make a new stand before their society by being able to show that not only has one of the species they're supposedly enemies with already undergone a pilgrimage through all of the Sorrows and shown a strong appreciation for them and the hope of preventing more, they're actively searching for the solution that the Teelshanah ultimately couldn't find.
In other words, the very notion that all of these other species are innate threats to the Shiplords and the galaxy as a whole comes into question because here you have leaders of one such species actively seeking understanding and some kind of solution for peace in the middle of war, and free Shiplords are welcome companions on their ship and their journey.
Yes, it's a gamble, but this entire mission is a gamble, and these youths (and the Hearthguard, it goes without saying) seem to really yearn for some kind of peaceful solution that doesn't turn out just like one of the Sorrows, and for a better way in general to approach the entire problem. It's easier for the Authority to point at the alien species and call them existential threats that must be eliminated; it's a lot harder to do that when they're pointing at a free alliance of one of said species and members of their own people joined in a mission for peace.
In other words, the very notion that all of these other species are innate threats to the Shiplords and the galaxy as a whole comes into question because here you have leaders of one such species actively seeking understanding and some kind of solution for peace in the middle of war, and free Shiplords are welcome companions on their ship and their journey.
Yes, it's a gamble, but this entire mission is a gamble, and these youths (and the Hearthguard, it goes without saying) seem to really yearn for some kind of peaceful solution that doesn't turn out just like one of the Sorrows, and for a better way in general to approach the entire problem. It's easier for the Authority to point at the alien species and call them existential threats that must be eliminated; it's a lot harder to do that when they're pointing at a free alliance of one of said species and members of their own people joined in a mission for peace.
I would hold a society as young as humanity to those standards. Shiplord society is...millions of years beyond being a multi-system polity. They're post-scarcity, post-mortality, post-security civilization. They're also a society full of people who chose to go into indefinite hibernation out of sheer boredom and fatigue because the prospect of losing their lives or just not living doesn't bother them that much. I'm pretty sure there have been countless Shiplords who had plenty of reasons to raise the banner and little or nothing to lose (beyond their life that they probably didn't mind losing anyway), but chose not to, or others chose not to join.
Oh, I know, and I agree. It's just that I imagine most Shiplord adults feel pretty similarly. Hell, the fact that the Shiplords didn't have big civil wars in the past pretty much necessitates such feelings being prevalent.
See above, but yes, I fully agree and kind of said as much if you read my full post--the youth are entirely innocent in every way, and suffering in their own way from the godawful leadership/culture the Shiplords seem willfully stuck under.
Can you give us some idea of what that would actually entail? Things that Amanda and Co. would know that haven't been spelled out in the story thus far (or haven't been covered in a while).
The fact that the guy is a decidely former Tribute participant when Tribute assignments are apparently traditionally held until death, and that this guy is also present at one of the Sorrows, suggests that this guy may be remorseful of what he did or yearning for a better way that he cannot think of. Which probably makes him not hard to interact with, aside from maybe Kalilah, because the worst part about the Tribute system is the people behind it think it's justified/the right thing to do. This guy probably seriously doubts that.
Torgamous
Aspiring Gynoid
- Pronouns
- She/Her
There's different kinds of doubt. Think about how much American antiwar stuff is about how much war sucks for American soldiers.
And, really, the worst part about the Tribute system may be the self-justifications in the abstract, from the perspective of history or the players, but Amanda didn't lose her parents to the self-justifications. Better to leave it alone. Iris can fill us in later.