NSMS
Probably evil, unfortunately.
- Location
- A rapidly widening tear in the fabric of reality
Frickin' Season 1 South Park is better animated than the Pein vs Naruto fight.
The Princess of Blades (Naruto/Exalted)
- Thread starter Crilltic
- Start date
- Crossover
chocolote12
A Penguin Flailing Against The Keyboard Of Life.
I rest my case.
HymnOfRagnarok
Let's Rock
Eh. I don't believe we ever see if that kind of conjured stuff persists, or what the guidelines are. You're gonna have to explain to me how this makes your case.
Yeah, you can use it to influence the world, so if that's the only thing you care about then that point was made a while back, but if you're trying to show persistence and that chakra neatly interfaces into physics as they are commonly understood, don't think that works.
chocolote12
A Penguin Flailing Against The Keyboard Of Life.
*Throws up hands* You can use Chakra to spin a magnet. Electricity exists because the world is like the normal world unless otherwise noted. Your entire argument is as stupid as your face, and considering that faces do not contain brains, being as that is the job of the skull, that means that it is a fairly stupid argument.
Ninja wire techniques, and IIRC chakra blades and similar weapons benefit from shaping control as well. More precision means better edge and length for a given investment, harder to disrupt.
- Location
- Massholistan
Guys, guys settle down. Like yeah, Tenten could probably use chakra to make electricity with coils and shit. You know how else she could make electricity? Learning how to use Lightning Release. (Assuming she doesn't have an affinity for it already). For the record, this is the way she would think about when someone asked her about using electricity on her person.
Yes, Chakra Blades especially need a very large amount of control, which is why you primarily see Medical-nins using them. Remember Medical-nins probably have the best chakra control on the battlefield, and they know exactly where to hit you to do the most damage.
HymnOfRagnarok
Let's Rock
I can flick it with my fingers to spin a magnet too. You can achieve the same effects by different means, and chakra may count as an entirely separate mean that just happens to bear a passing similarity to normal physics.
Like the Fae in Exalted, come to think of it. Their physics applies just fine too, until something disrupts them, like Iron. It's really more inserting your own rules on how shit works, if memory serves.
Don't think anyone argued otherwise, but nothing is saying Lightning chakra is the same as electricity. It's pretty much Magic, I mean look at stuff like Kakashi making a lightning dog.
And that is not a wise argument to make in these parts.
And I am saying that we should use both of those in concert to supplement each other. And that, in this case
I am not saying that at all. That we didn't see such an exercise in canon doesn't mean it cannot or, in fact, does not, exist, or that it is impossible to do, or that some (not all) people aren't using it. It simply means that we didn't it in-story. Such a technique existing doesn't contradict anything. You are arguing that "if it didn't show up on screen in canon, it can't exist". Which is, I have to say, strange.
I am talking about rotating a magnet on its axis with chakra.
So? Why does it means that what I am proposing won't work?
Don't assume they don't, until we have reason to believe so. The world we see is similar to our own in how it looks and behaves outside of magic. SO, yes, I'll assume that it works the same way ours does until given evidence that it doesn't. Otherwise, any planning at all is impossible.
So? We haven't seen all the ninja ever using all the techniques they know.
It's good then that I am here to help with "out of the box" thinking. But ok. I'll drop this.
Yes. And if put inside a conductive wireframe, that would generate electricity too. Which is the point. It doesn't matter how you make it spin, only that it does. And with chakra you can make it spin at high rates, which gives you lots of current (because the faster it spins, the more electricity you get).
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
In that case you might as well just send the electricity directly into the wire.
HymnOfRagnarok
Let's Rock
Logic is sound, save that Tenten would not know to try this or that it is possible or that the returns are worth pursuing. Most ninja wouldn't know come to think of it, and their existing technology is unexplained.
NSMS
Probably evil, unfortunately.
- Location
- A rapidly widening tear in the fabric of reality
My take on using chakra to spin magnets or metal to generate electricity: it's probably possible, since chakra-aside Naruto does seem to mostly follow the laws of physics. The question is... why would you want to do it? It's not even remotely close to being an efficient way to generate power.
Training to use chakra takes years for most people, and it's a finite resource that takes time to replenish after being used. And given that spinning a magnet would most likely require an active expenditure of chakra, you'd only get a limited amount of generation out of any one person per day. This gets even worse when you consider that the faster the spin or the larger the magnet, the more chakra it's likely to take to keep it going and the more skill it's likely to take to be able to make it spin regularly and evenly. So to have a regular and reliable supply from it you'd need to train a large group of people trained specifically in the technique, so they can work in group shifts, cover for one another's illnesses, have time off to eat/train/educate their replacements, etc.
And then, after all this effort setting up your human generator team, it turns out the country next door has spent the same time and effort training people to breath fire instead, and sends them in to kill you all.
Compare that to the effort, investment, and resources it takes to build a basic wood-fueled steam turbine.
On a personal level, just applying this to Tenten... why not just learn to use lightning chakra? It's similar, doesn't have the losses in energy efficiency from the chakra -> kinetic energy -> electricity conversion, it's far more well known and thus easier to pick up training for, and it's more likely that there are existing exploits based around it so we don't need to (figuratively) reinvent the wheel.
Training to use chakra takes years for most people, and it's a finite resource that takes time to replenish after being used. And given that spinning a magnet would most likely require an active expenditure of chakra, you'd only get a limited amount of generation out of any one person per day. This gets even worse when you consider that the faster the spin or the larger the magnet, the more chakra it's likely to take to keep it going and the more skill it's likely to take to be able to make it spin regularly and evenly. So to have a regular and reliable supply from it you'd need to train a large group of people trained specifically in the technique, so they can work in group shifts, cover for one another's illnesses, have time off to eat/train/educate their replacements, etc.
And then, after all this effort setting up your human generator team, it turns out the country next door has spent the same time and effort training people to breath fire instead, and sends them in to kill you all.
Compare that to the effort, investment, and resources it takes to build a basic wood-fueled steam turbine.
On a personal level, just applying this to Tenten... why not just learn to use lightning chakra? It's similar, doesn't have the losses in energy efficiency from the chakra -> kinetic energy -> electricity conversion, it's far more well known and thus easier to pick up training for, and it's more likely that there are existing exploits based around it so we don't need to (figuratively) reinvent the wheel.
Last edited:
I don't think Lightning Release is electricity though.
Certainly it only shares some of the characteristics of same; see what it does to Earth, for example.
It's one of the perils of assuming that literal magic works the same way as physics.
This.
Look at the bullshit that the Sage introduced into the world; it's even canon that chakra is not native to humans, and that the God Tree came from elsewhere. Dunno if natural energy is native to the world; anime says one thing, manga doesn't expand.
That requires lightning release nature transformation. And learning to grip and then spin things with chakra has additional benefits. Like circular saws. Rollerblades (that also run on all surfaces). Bonuses for taijutsu maybe. Step 0.1 in rasengan training.
That's a good point, really. @Crilltic for further reference, what RL equivalent education does Tenten have? I mean, they start learning earlier, and probably study in a more intense way that we do, but she still finished her education at 12.
Well, energy efficiency aside (since chakra blatantly sh*ts all over conservation of energy, and, thus, I don't think we have enough info there), as I mention in this post above:
1) We don't know if we have lightning affinity.
2) Learning to spin things with chakra is useful in general as a basis for several tricks / techniques / weapons
HymnOfRagnarok
Let's Rock
That's a really good point actually....I had not made the logical next step that yeah, chakra-physics were imported in from elsewhere.
There's Rasengan.
Using it to generate power...remember Chakra is controlled by organic means, so it's going to vary based on focus and attention devoted to the task. Ultimately for a generator, whether you're using an elemental release or chakra operated machinery...I dare say it's going to cost far less for firewood, coal or oil than the equivalent generation capacity in high chakra control, high chakra recovery ninjas.
Not on an industrial scale. Maintaining a stable output would be a good way to increase control, though. And a voltmeter would provide easy means of controlling the progress.
Crow
Falling is a Pleasure. Regardless of its Fate
Can still pick it up with added difficulty depending on our affinity even if we dont.
I do believe the investment would be less than what you´re proposing though in terms of Time and effort along with people available to teach us...
It's basically the leaf sticking exercise with much narrower tolrances(and it doesn't cap out when you can stick a leaf to you and forget it indefinitely).
Though I suspect that such training won't be very helpful for people without the talent for it, they'd hit diminishing returns much quicker.
NSMS
Probably evil, unfortunately.
- Location
- A rapidly widening tear in the fabric of reality
At which point, as I mentioned before, your next-door neighbours who've been training their guys to kill and fight instead comes in and wipes you out. Training people to use chakra is not a trivial investment, it's going to take a lot of people to maintain anything approaching a high and stable output of power, and every guy you have learning to use chakra for power generation is someone who's not learning to use it to fight off enemy ninja (or if you're pulling ninja in to do it, someone who's not training to improve their skills or taking missions to increase their village's income). Really, building steam turbines or water wheels or even windmills would be a much more practical option.
Agreed.
My issue is that there are strict diminishing returns at our level, and there are lots of things for us to spread our attention across.
No.
I am saying that if it didn't show up on screen in canon, it either doesn't exist or has been tried and found to be non-effective.
That we aren't suddenly breaking paradigms by think of wire training and spinning balls.
Shinobi aren't stupid, and the Great Villages, as well as the clans that formed them, have at least a sixty year history, with decades of general warfare before that. The brutal Darwinism of constant warfare would have grabbed all the low-hanging fruit and killed off people who weren't optimizing for efficiency.
There may be room for improvement, but we are not going to improve on that with a genin months out of the Academy.
People do not grind control for the sake of control in canon; not above the level of Water Walking.
When Jiraiya was teaching Naruto Rasengan, he didn't simply heap him down with isolated control exercises beforehand.
Also see how Naruto did not develop better control over the Rasenshuriken until he actually learned other techniques altogether, that required improved control.
And OOC, trying to represent improved control mechanically introduces an additional layer of complexity for the GM to manage.
Which is not a good thing for Quest longevity.
*sigh*
Because the rules are patently different here.
Not really, no.
Creation of All Things is explicitly a base technique that was employed in this universe; chakra was imported and implanted in humans.
Extraterrestrial/extradimensional aliens who can interbreed with humans are also a thing here. There is an actual death god who can be summoned.
Magic was retrofitted into the workings of this world by intelligent beings.
You cannot treat RL as a proxy simulation of it.
Last edited:
chocolote12
A Penguin Flailing Against The Keyboard Of Life.
Industrial Revolution.
It's a control exercise, not a suggestion on how to grow the economy. At most, such a thing might be used to recharge a battery in the field.
NSMS
Probably evil, unfortunately.
- Location
- A rapidly widening tear in the fabric of reality
No, in the context I was replying to it definitely was that:
??? You are misreading. Or I misspoke. I was absolutely suggesting it as a chakra control exercise. Take object, make it spin at a consistent rate. As all chakra control exercises, it has practical uses:
1) Circular saw-like weapons without engines (kienzan anyone?)
2) Rollerblades that could potentially stick to any surface
3) Generating electricity to power personal equipment, such as to electrify wires without the need to use chakra for that (potentially useful against sensors, might not share same limitations / weaknesses as lightning release)
4) Potentially boosts to taijutsu (basically, twist and pull your enemy's flesh with every strike).