It's something like the latter, and definitely not the result of any genetic marker or component. Further research required.
That could be some fun research.

"Do not go beyond your star." to be exact.
This can easily be read as 'Do not go beyond your Heliopause'. The only other boundary I can think of would be the sun's gravitational dominance, but that is much less defined. Barring contrary evidence, I'm going with the former.
 
There is not insignificant evidence that the Shiplord deliberately phrase some of their restrictions vaguely.

Yes, they're kinda dicks like that.
 
That's not very precise. Taken literally, it's the stars' diameter. Or the heliopause. Or the Oort cloud, 'outer' boundary.
I imagine that it's precise enough for their purposes. No mucking about in deep space (ie, not in the star's orbit) or around another star.

The StarLords aren't being Political, you don't rules lawyer your way around their rules, (except for the REALLY MASSIVE HOLES, like only explicitly banning the First and Second Secrets). Break a rule, they crush you. Don't break a rule, the worst they'll (probably) do, is have twitchy eyebrow, and maybe send a bigger tribute fleet.
...

I just realized, but I don't think they said anything about "Not blowing up the Tribute Fleet". If so, that would be a hilarious omission. And one we will abuse to it's utmost post-victory, by not explicitly breaking any of their rules, While still making them effectively obsolete.
 
There is not insignificant evidence that the Shiplord deliberately phrase some of their restrictions vaguely.
That's only necessary (as far as I can see) if they have to justify their actions. And that sheds light on the bigger power structures - it'd mean the SL are more restricted than I assumed until now.
 
That's only necessary (as far as I can see) if they have to justify their actions. And that sheds light on the bigger power structures - it'd mean the SL are more restricted than I assumed until now.
Counterpoint: that sort of justification only flies if the people that they're justifying themselves to either cannot challenge them, or are disinclined to bother.

If they were actively being monitored and/or restricted by an outside power or powers, than you'd expect to see more specific rules, rather than vagaries. It's why modern legalities are so labyrinthine: you do not want "maybe" or "might' to ever be a common, or even viable, words to be used in court.

As for what keeps the ShipLords from breaking their own rules? No Idea! Personally, I think it's their own strange sense of honor; they said that these were the rules, and by gum! THOSE ARE THE RULES! I could be wrong though.
 
That's only necessary (as far as I can see) if they have to justify their actions. And that sheds light on the bigger power structures - it'd mean the SL are more restricted than I assumed until now.
Which need not imply an outside power. There may be a part of their own population that is intent on keeping their Tribute Fleets within rules e.g. civilians back home.

Also the tribute relationship is long term. They get more compliance if their victims know their treatment is consistent with the rules they've been given. At the same time the fleet needs freedom to act in the Shiplords' interests hence wiggle room.
 
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Good points, and two version of what poses the restrictions. Still means there are restrictions - possibly besides the cold war with other factions.
Any idea how we can get more info about the galaxy at large without Insight and without violating the first law (I mean the one restricting FTL)? Hope to be contacted?
 
You know, technically speaking an Alcubierre Drive is not FTL. It's still 'within' the rules of physics. But somehow I doubt rules lawyering FTL would be allowed by the Shiplords.
 
""Do not go beyond your star."" also includes magic. The means don't matter.

Na, that was another ruling. We can't mess with FTL, nor genetic engineering that led to the Dragons, and on TOP of that 'you can't leave your star'.

The Alcubierre Drive is, as I said, NOT faster than light, but instead would use a gravity well mathematically calculated to warp space around the ship. Which people might recognize from Mass Effect, as that's very similar to what some of their drives did there.

You know, on top of their magic 'less mass' thing.
 
Na, that was another ruling. We can't mess with FTL, nor genetic engineering that led to the Dragons, and on TOP of that 'you can't leave your star'.

The Alcubierre Drive is, as I said, NOT faster than light, but instead would use a gravity well mathematically calculated to warp space around the ship. Which people might recognize from Mass Effect, as that's very similar to what some of their drives did there.

You know, on top of their magic 'less mass' thing.
And yet it gets you from A to B faster than light.

These rules aren't being enforced by automatons, or even an impartial judge. If they want to attack us, then that sort of rules-lawyering would give them a perfect excuse.

Besides, chances are that First Secret FTL also doesn't go faster than light by that definition. It's easy to make the mistake of thinking about C as just some arbitrary limit that could be changed, but it's deeper than that. The geometry of the universe is 4D, but not Euclidean... And "faster than light" isn't a forbidden direction, it's a direction that doesn't exist to be forbidden.

(Time-travel back in time isn't forbidden by this, nor in principle is a ship "skipping" from going forwards to backwards in time and thereby getting to its destination in zero time, but the illegal directions do mean there's no way to smoothly rotate your worldline from forwards to backwards. Probably just as well.)

((And if you want to read about a universe where the above is not the case, read Greg Egan's Clockwork Rocket. It's great! ... And looks very little like our universe.))
 
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If we invent Teraport but never use it, we don't violate the law. Technically.
If we invent uploading and sent robots running copies of us, we also don't violate the law. Technically.
The War Fleet conducting fleet excercises in our solar system also wasn't sent to - 'pacify' us. Technically.
 
As I said, I somehow doubt that we could rules lawyer around FTL. Regardless of how.

We're going to have to deal with this sooner or later. This is something Humanity needs in the long term.
 
As I said, I somehow doubt that we could rules lawyer around FTL. Regardless of how.

We're going to have to deal with this sooner or later. This is something Humanity needs in the long term.
Yes, but for now I think we're going to have to settle on "later". Possibly even much later; at the moment we haven't even come close to fully exploring the resources of our own solar system, let alone gotten to the point where we need to expand to others. The reason we want to do it now is so we have a way to survive if someone nova-bombs Sol, but that kind of logic pales when you consider that the act of moving beyond our star will draw a War Fleet to us who will do the very nova-bombing that we're trying to guard against.
 
Well, the classic way you survive a nova on your star is to scatter to other stars as quickly as you can. :p

But ANYWAYS. I'd like to propose that in the future we design all of our outer-system facilities to be designed to move. A O'Neil station with proper internal supports for example would be more than large enough for ANYTHING we need it to be, and be able to get to where we want it to be.




Ok, I partly harp on the idea of the O'Neil station for two reasons. 1, it's VERY easy to do (we could literally do it now). And 2, it's insanely defended against attacks. The base design had something like a quarter mile+ of rock as the outer edge. That's crazy strong - even before you start modifying it.

Sure it's also so big as to be unable to dodge anything.... But that's part of the design. ;)
 
That's only necessary (as far as I can see) if they have to justify their actions. And that sheds light on the bigger power structures - it'd mean the SL are more restricted than I assumed until now.
Which need not imply an outside power. There may be a part of their own population that is intent on keeping their Tribute Fleets within rules e.g. civilians back home.

Also the tribute relationship is long term. They get more compliance if their victims know their treatment is consistent with the rules they've been given. At the same time the fleet needs freedom to act in the Shiplords' interests hence wiggle room.
Incubators don't lie. Shiplords may have similar hangups. Heck, at this point I'm not even convinced that the original race still exists and we aren't just fighting some rogue AIs.
 
I just realized, but I don't think they said anything about "Not blowing up the Tribute Fleet". If so, that would be a hilarious omission. And one we will abuse to it's utmost post-victory, by not explicitly breaking any of their rules, While still making them effectively obsolete.

blowing up the tribute fleet seems to actually be the point. They want us to try, and hell they might even be happy if we eventually succeeded. The only reason they didn't wipe out humanity is that we impressed them by killing some of their conquest fleet. We don't know what the hell their deal is, but they seem to want us to fight back effectively. It could be some wired honor thing, a holdover from when the shiplords were more than just monsters, or a fucked up means of entertainment. Hopefully when we kill the tribute fleet we will get more insight into what the actual hell is up with them.
 
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If we invent Teraport but never use it, we don't violate the law. Technically.
Actually, teleporters may be permissible under the ShipLords' rules, provided that they don't use the First Secret. Similar to how they forbid the Second Secret, but not human enhancement/immortality, which meant we bypassed that via the Sixth Secret. For that matter, the Calypso's FTL is apparently a permissible exception, although I'm unsure if it's because we're using scavanged tech (and therefore aren't held accountable for it's existence) or if ShipLord FTL drives use a Secret other than the First.

Interesting point that. Put it on the list of things to investigate, when are Info Department gets... unexploded.

minor edit; referenced incorrect Secret at least once
 
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I think the vagueness is at least partially to keep people from finding a way to achieve the same thing without using the secrets. Either because such research is dangerous, or because the point is to keep them from being an actual threat.
 
Ok, I partly harp on the idea of the O'Neil station for two reasons. 1, it's VERY easy to do (we could literally do it now). And 2, it's insanely defended against attacks. The base design had something like a quarter mile+ of rock as the outer edge. That's crazy strong - even before you start modifying it.
I mean, a quarter-mile of rock is a lot, but it wouldn't be likely to work. Rock is great in compression, but doesn't have much tensile strength. Which is a problem if it's the outer layer of a rotating ring... and if it's not, then a quarter-mile of rock is a ridiculously heavy load for whatever is.

That said, I'm not convinced it'd be useful anyway. We've been recently told that typical ship speeds are in the ~0.1C range, and unless some sort of shenanigans prevents it, that would be a literally planet-shattering level of force should it happen to hit one. The actual weapons are, presumably, worse.

We don't actually know how dangerous our own weapons are, do we? What are we talking about here, for... say, one Pillar?




Or something in-between?
 
Actually, teleporters may be permissible under the ShipLords' rules, provided that they don't use the First Secret. Similar to how they forbid the Second Secret, but not human enhancement/immortality, which meant we bypassed that via the Sixth Secret. For that matter, the Calypso's FTL is apparently a permissible exception, although I'm unsure if it's because we're using scavanged tech (and therefore aren't held accountable for it's existence) or if ShipLord FTL drives use a Secret other than the First.

Interesting point that. Put it on the list of things to investigate, when are Info Department gets... unexploded.

minor edit; referenced incorrect Secret at least once
Erm, I actually don't think the First Secret is actually banned; only going beyond our star is banned. Using First Secret tech to bounce around within our own heliopause seems to be fine; if it weren't I suspect we'd already have a War Fleet on the way, given that @Snowfire has implied that everyone, from Shiplords down to lowly humans, have lagless sensors with good enough resolution that hiding without stealth tech is useless, and FTL usage can be detected from across the galaxy.
 
It's something like the latter, and definitely not the result of any genetic marker or component. Further research required.



"Do not go beyond your star." to be exact.

So this wouldn't violate that rule right?
Because that would be a game changer. Just move the star. And power an insane defense grid and industrial power house.
They didn't say no interstellartravel, just don't leave the star. Such wonderful loopholes.
That would probably make them be a little more precise with the next race if we pull it off.
This should be our end goal.
 
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So this wouldn't violate that rule right?
Because that would be a game changer. Just move the star. And power an insane defense grid and industrial power house.
They didn't say no interstellartravel, just don't leave the star. Such wonderful loopholes.
That would probably make them be a little more precise with the next race if we pull it off.
This should be our end goal.
An engine like that is also a Death Star class solar laser. The Shiplords can't FTL closer than 2.5 AU. Combined with proper anti-stealth sensors, this project is spelled 'we win'. It is also massively beyond our current industrial base. The only improvement I can think of would be to make it FTL. But that would be cheating.

Edit: It also brings new meaning to the term 'starship'.
 
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