We'd have to; at the very least we could just put an electronic billboard outside of our ship and have the recipient use its FTL sensors to read it. :D
That's why I was asking - I was thinking 'FTL sensor == signal transmission with FTL speed'. On related issues, we might have to stop relativistic formulae since they don't apply. Or Snowfire presents a theory that includes it and allows for FTL ... .
 
It's small yes. It's a concept piece. BUT IT WORKS.

That's just it. They proved it can work! :D And yet it wasn't in the news. WTF America? ...oh right, we don't do science anymore.

From here it's just making it work better, and more efficiently.

to be fair, it's been going though an increasingly stringent series of tests for like 2 years now. So "em drive not disproven" has lost a lot of it's zing.
 
Yes, because triangulation over these short distances requires taking into account a lot of decimal places (and, if I remember correctly, also a graviational map of earth to compensate for that to increase precision).
Since we have FTL sensors, we also have FTL communication, true?
Lagless communication (which we have) is, by definition, FTL.

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to be fair, it's been going though an increasingly stringent series of tests for like 2 years now. So "em drive not disproven" has lost a lot of it's zing.
From what I've seen, nobody has yet gotten thrust significantly greater than their margin of error.
 
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What odds would you give that it works?

I'm interested in making a bet. Put your money where your mouth is, etc, and if we disagree violently enough on the odds then you should see this as easy money.

...why would you want it to fail?

I'm happy it's working. It's proving that the people at NASA got the physics loophole right! Sure, we might not see a viable engine in our lifetime, but IT WORKS. It's producing a force of movement without an external reaction, just from the microwaves inside.

This is Star Trek/Star Wars type stuff! The stuff I wanted to go into aerospace engineering for way back when I still had goals to be in NASA... and before I found out how much money I'd need to get the education to get an entry level job. :/

It's WORKING. We don't know how viable it will be, but they proved that the math was right.


I was willing to admit he was right because he was. They haven't tested it in action, just in theory. ...and given our new president I don't have high hopes for any future testing for at least 4-8 years. :cry:

They have a reaction that caused pounds of force. That's no longer theoretical, yes? They did something, it made a force that was measurable without an outside reaction causing it.
IE, the science works. Now if it will work in space, that's another thing and I'm willing to admit it.
 
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to be fair, it's been going though an increasingly stringent series of tests for like 2 years now. So "em drive not disproven" has lost a lot of it's zing.
When you put it like that, it's actually pretty persuasive. I mean, the foundations of a lot of our understandings of the physical world secretly run off of the logic "Well, we haven't proven that isn't how it works..."
 
...why would you want it to fail?

I'm happy it's working. It's proving that the people at NASA got the physics loophole right! Sure, we might not see a viable engine in our lifetime, but IT WORKS. It's producing a force of movement without an external reaction, just from the microwaves inside.

This is Star Trek/Star Wars type stuff! The stuff I wanted to go into aerospace engineering for way back when I still had goals to be in NASA... and before I found out how much money I'd need to get the education to get an entry level job. :/

It's WORKING. We don't know how viable it will be, but they proved that the math was right.


I was willing to admit he was right because he was. They haven't tested it in action, just in theory. ...and given our new president I don't have high hopes for any future testing for at least 4-8 years. :cry:

They have a reaction that caused pounds of force. That's no longer theoretical, yes? They did something, it made a force that was measurable without an outside reaction causing it.
IE, the science works. Now if it will work in space, that's another thing and I'm willing to admit it.
It has nothing to do with 'wanting' it to fail, and everything to do with 'to good to be true'.

When you put it like that, it's actually pretty persuasive. I mean, the foundations of a lot of our understandings of the physical world secretly run off of the logic "Well, we haven't proven that isn't how it works..."
Except in this case it comes down to 'we can't prove that no thrust is being produced'. That isn't proof that it works. Also, the space experiments that keep getting cited appear to be ion drives, not MDrives.
 
When you put it like that, it's actually pretty persuasive. I mean, the foundations of a lot of our understandings of the physical world secretly run off of the logic "Well, we haven't proven that isn't how it works..."

yeah but it hasn't really been strongly proven yet either. There is likely something weird going on, but we don't know enough about it to know if it would be scalable or useful yet.
 
They had to fiddle around with GPS in order to take it into consideration.
There is actually an interesting and nontrivial reason that relativistic effects matter for GPS.

Generally speaking, GPS works by having a receiver getting messages from multiple satellites which tell the receiver where the satellites are and when the they sent the ping. By looking at the current time, they can figure out the distance between where the satellite was and where the receiver is, and combine measurements from multiple satellites to get a location.

Now, the problem is, how do we figure out a distance from a time? Well, we take the time delta and multiply it by the speed of light - 3×10^8 m/s. However, the result is that the distance is extremely sensitive to differences in time - if your clock is off by a single millisecond, the distance you get has an error of 300km. Relativistic effects really don't do much to the time - but even really minor effects matter, especially if you want to get good accuracy on the final effect.
 
I feel like we might be wandering off of topic here a little >.>

Not that this isn't interesting, but, y'know.
Well, it is relevant in the sense that if our frac-c sublight drives are in fact reactionless and cheap, like these EM Drives will be if they prove to be a real thing, then the notion of moving the Orbitals to the inner system over the course of a year suddenly becomes trivial in the face of our Sixth Secret nano-fabrication capabilities. We can "just" fab up a large fleet of tiny thrusters, attach them to the Orbital, and motor it anywhere in the solar system over the course of six or seven months.
 
Well, it is relevant in the sense that if our frac-c sublight drives are in fact reactionless and cheap, like these EM Drives will be if they prove to be a real thing, then the notion of moving the Orbitals to the inner system over the course of a year suddenly becomes trivial in the face of our Sixth Secret nano-fabrication capabilities. We can "just" fab up a large fleet of tiny thrusters, attach them to the Orbital, and motor it anywhere in the solar system over the course of six or seven months.
And if not, we can still construct a few tugs, come up with an idea to distribute the stress equally (like using a net, but an idea foolproofed by an actual space engineer of which we do have some), and tow them.
 
I hope the reactionless drives aren't cheap. If they are, that makes rkkvs cheap. Cheap rkkvs means we are doomed, since there would be no reason not to use them as cheap unguided rockets targeted at anything that cannot move.
Altough cheap rkkvs would also be there own counter, as a smaller and therefore far cheaper rkkv could intercept them, due to not needing planet devastating energies to destroy them. Just enough to vaporize the incoming rkkvs would be enough to render them harmless to a planet.
 
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that's been discussed. A war fleet might do stuff like that, but the big players have defenses against RKKVS and tribute fleets use kid gloves for as yet undetermined reasons.
 
The reactionless drives you have access to are not in any way related to EM drives. They act by projecting a field around the ship that exploits a loophole in inertia, but they're products of Practice. You'd need to unlock gravity manipulation to build them without that, which means that mass production of them is a non-starter. Put simply, you feed in power, the ship moves. The problem is that the field can be brought down by direct fire, and if it drops, the ship's velocity flatlines. For any familiar with the Starfire universe, yup, it's the n-space drive from there.

This is part of why it's not really effective as an RKV system. Drive field failure rips away almost all of the imparted velocity.
 
Interlude: Vision
"This is it." Matthew, your guide, said nodding to the passageway that you'd come to a stop in front of, tapping the mapping tool that Mary's teams had completed work on early this year. "The door is just down the hall, but we couldn't get to it last time."

"I remember the report," you said calmly, nodding your thanks. "There's a barrier about halfway to the door that you couldn't bring down. Were there any similarities to other security measures?" You asked.

"Only a little." Matthew replied, "None of the security systems have been dangerous so far, and this is no exception, but most of them are more obvious. This one isn't at all. You take one step too far and you just can't take another. It's like the air itself stops you."

You nodded again; that was very different to the protections that were set on most of the sealed sections of the vault, almost weak in some ways. You refused to let yourself hope, however. The amalgam had told you that in time you'd unlock the rest of the vault, as your wisdom grew, whatever that truly meant. You had some guesses, but…they weren't important right now.

"Thank you." You said after a moment, then gestured to where you were standing. "Please stay here. Given what we've seen of the other protections on specific rooms in the Vault, my best chance to open it is going to be on my own." You were right, too, for all that your personal detail disliked it. They'd become a little less against you going anywhere on your own after you'd shown off the protective capabilities of a Unisonbound, but they still weren't anything you'd call happy.

Fortunately for all involved, they'd learned to live with the sort of risks that you took as a matter of being who you were. A President wasn't supposed to risk themselves, wasn't meant to have to put their life on the line or go into potentially dangerous situations without a wall of bodies between them and the danger. That had held even in the case of the few Potential Presidencies since the Week of Sorrows, but none of them had been as uniquely important as you.

The current situation was a good example you thought, walking carefully down the passageway. Although Mary had been working almost obsessively on trying to work out how to open the permissions of the Vault to others, if only to let you transfer them to someone if you needed to, she'd had little success. Far more had come from her attempts to reconstitute the filing system and database that had somehow eroded to tatters since the Vault had been sealed. The uncontrolled loss of power due to degradation of the planetary network had probably had something to do with that.

The result of her success in that field was most felt in the map tool that your guide had used, and that you had as well, integrated into Sidra at their request. That tool had allowed for a far more comprehensive sweep of sections of the vault accessible to those with the basic permissions you could grant, and the fruits of that labour were finally beginning to come in. Although the Elder First had never created weapons, some of the Practiced devices they'd left behind were stunning in their power and elegance. It was a sobering thought really, how far they'd come in the time they'd had compared to you.

For now, though, what was in front of you was what mattered most. The free treasures of the Elder First would be yours before the Shiplords returned, now it was up to you to try and give humanity one of those that they'd locked away.

You took another step, and the air solidified around you.

It wasn't forceful, nor threatening, it simply was. You tried to move a hand through the suddenly totally static air, and met a wall of resistance as you pressed against it. You pushed a bit harder, focusing your senses, trying to find the secret to the invisible barrier. You could feel its power, a stronger concentration of the energy that permeated the entire vault, but a way through wasn't forthcoming.

:Sidra?: You asked. At the very beginning, you'd have had to explain what you were looking for. After the time you'd spent together since, it was easier than breathing. Truth be told, you didn't really need the question, but you liked to ask it.

:I do not know.: Your Platform replied. :It bears some small resemblance to the barriers on other levels, but they were all visible and showed no push-back when tested. I would advise that you remove your hand.: You did so quickly, and only afterwards did you feel some of the power fade away. A reactive defence of some sort then, not that you'd been searching for any way to trick it. You weren't sure that anyone actually could.

You ran down the list of options available in your mind, feeling the familiar touch of Sidra moving alongside your thoughts to remove those that were immediately unusable. Directed power was first off that list, even if you were a lot better at it than you'd been a year ago; meaning you were actually capable of it. There weren't tricks to getting past the Elder Vault's defences as far as anyone had been able to discover, and you'd been ferociously against testing that. You ruled out a malfunction yourself, the access section of the Vault's programming was completely intact according to Mary. The only problem she had with it was that it was encrypted to the point that Insight Focused were still having trouble with it.

After that, options became more esoteric. You pushed trying to speak your Self all the way down to the very bottom of the list out of reflex. The last time you done that had been enough to teach you that you really didn't want to go near that part of your growing abilities until you knew exactly what you were doing. You simply hadn't had the time this year or last to look into that properly, not with the Unisonbound taking up so much of it.

:There's always just asking.: You said at last, and amusement rippled across the link between you.

:That's true.: Sidra considered your statement, then chuckled. :Beats standing here doing nothing. Of course that means you have to stand here and talk to empty air, but I'm sure we can work something out.:

You sighed, but Sidra did have a point. With the amalgam you'd had an interface, there was nothing here to help you with that. Or was there…

You reached, pushing your senses out into the latent barrier, but this time you weren't searching for a weakness. You were looking for something missing, that you might be able to answer. There was no certainty that there was anything there, but there shouldn't be any risk to it.

Certainty. Shouldn't be. Words that should have had more attention placed on them.

:Identify user:

The command hammered into you, cutting through the defences you had spent weeks building with an ease that would have been contemptuous but for its utter lack of emotion. It was so swift that you didn't even think before answering.

"Amanda Hawk." You replied, more on instinct than anything else. "I opened the way after the Elder First left us. I am an inheritor to their legacy."

:Searching.: There was a momentary pause, the razor sharp attention shifting somewhere, then. : Permissions incomplete. Oversight offline. Defaulting to standard protocol.: You felt something press against the boundaries of your self. It vanished quickly, and the voice spoke again.

: Please lower your protections.: It said. :Whilst possible, it would be a breach of protocol to bypass them.:

You blinked, then reached instinctively for your platform's advice.

:I don't know, Mandy.: The reply came before you'd even voiced the question. :We have no understanding of what is ahead of us, what it might require. You could ask, however. I believe that was what you wanted to do.: As was often the case, Sidra was right.

"Can I ask that you tell me why, first?" You asked cautiously. None of the Vault's defences so far had been tied to hair-triggers, and you doubted any aware defence would be an exception.

: Permissions of user incomplete.: The voice repeated. :Inheritor set recognised, but considerable sections of access currently restricted by UNDEFINED. This platform is capable of releasing access to its reliquary, but authentication is required.: You opened your mouth to ask, but the platform continued to speak. :Standard protocol for authentication of restricted users requires the lowering of personal protections to confirm Right of Access. Interference patterns like those caused by your protections would invalidate the authentication process.:

"So it's just a scan? Non-intrusive." Your experience with the Elder's Door had been enough to make you very certain that you didn't want to deal with something else like it without a lot more support.

:Yes. Please lower protections.:

You considered the request for another long moment, then shrugged. Nothing in the Vault had been designed to hurt, and none of it had ever lied either. You lowered the shields around your perceptions, that you'd built after the blazing Miracle that had created the Ulfbert class ships.

"Come ahead."

:Initiating scan: The pressure returned, but it was a gentle thing, spring sunlight through open shutters to illuminate the truth. It swept across the fabric of your soul in a pair of radiant instants, then withdrew, leaving you feeling somehow lessened for it.

:What was tha-: The mutual question of you and Sidra was cut off before it could be completed by the voice.

:Scan complete. Analysis complete, identity verified. Accessing local permissions and updating access list.: Something shifted in the air around you, and a line of light shone suddenly from the doors at the end of the corridor as they cracked open. :This platform has updated local permissions for this Reliquary, you may now enter.:

"Platform?" You asked, latching onto the word, surely the Elder First hadn't… "What, who, are you?" It had to be something else, if they'd had something like Unison then so much would have been different.

:My designation is VI5.1(n). The Elder First called me Vision.: The voice, Vision, replied. You took a careful step forward, and found no invisible barrier before you this time. So you took another, then another, towards the line of light between the doors to the Reliquary as Vision continued to explain. :They built me to help them see, and to understand, and what I helped them see was what led to this place.: There was another pause as you reached the door, a light push sent them swinging wide.

And you found yourself quite abruptly lost for words.

This place, room, reliquary; the presence of it was incredible. As a child you'd once visited the Grand Canyon in the Americas and the presence you'd felt there, the undeniable feeling of something more, was matched now for only the second time. The first had been standing in the air above the Earth, looking down at the jewel and cradle of humanity. To be matched by a room was all the confirmation you'd ever need that this place had power, and in a way that was very rare in nature or design. You wondered with the small part of your mind not consumed by awe if every Reliquary was like this. And if they were, how the Elder First had built them.

Cool air and pale light greeted you as you stepped into the chamber, and you approached the railing a few meters ahead of you. The room dropped away after the railing, and looking down you could see a sprawling complex of processor hubs, surrounded by a ring of cooling systems. The gentle thrum of power could be heard even where you stood, a comforting sound below the rhythmic hiss of the radiator ring. It was what was in front of you as you stared out that held your gaze, however. A strange array of semi-transparent light floated in the air a few feet off the railing, and you cocked your head curiously.

"Vision?" You said, and the array of lights bobbed deliberately.

"It has been a long time since any spoke my name." Soft radiance flared in time with your host's words, lighting up the holographic frame. "I welcome you with joy, Inheritor Hawk, to the first Reliquary you have stepped foot within." You pulled back at that statement, confusion crossing your face.

"How do you know?"

"You would not be so taken in awe if you had seen another." Vision said in the same cool and so slightly feminine voice. "I was made to see, to understand. Those things are as easily used for simple things now as they were decades ago to help your teachers."
"Have you been down here ever since they died?" You asked, horrified at the idea, and the holographic avatar chuckled.

"My physical hardware has, but what you are speaking to now has not. When the Elder First sealed this Vault, I reduced power consumption to minimum levels. In human terms, I slept, although I do not believe I had dreams. A pity." You surprised yourself with a chuckle at the absurdity of the statement. "My system clock remained running, so I know the date. What I do not know is why you are here, although it must have been a matter of grave importance. It was expected to be another twenty years before any of the Inheritors found this place."

You winced, unable to restrain the movement for what you realised you were about to have to explain. "The Shiplords." You said, blowing the words out with a breath. "Eight years ago we discovered a…Pattern in their actions. We believed that the Week of Sorrows was a singular event, punishment for assumed transgressions. We were wrong."

There was a long silence, and the soothing resonance of power below deepened. Looking down you could see more lights blinking to life, as the system, if that was even the proper word, in front of you roused to full wakefulness. You used the time wisely.

:Sidra, what's she doing? I can feel the power building, but I can't see where it's going. She talked about understanding, sight. Is it possible that this was-:

:The Elder First's Insight.:
Sidra finished the thought in line with your own. :Their way to see, and from what you've been told the reason they locked everything in this place away.:

:The data it might still hold, if it can tell us why they did this, it could,:
You stopped dead, suddenly aware of what you'd said. :It could destroy us, couldn't it.: You finished, the excitement drained from your mental tone.

:One enemy at a time.: You couldn't argue with that. You would ask why, but you wouldn't push. For now, your priority was surviving the invasion to come. What came after that would be another matter. You'd have to deal with it, you knew, but in this moment it was an all but ignored concern.

"System diagnostic in process." Vision spoke again. "Processor hub network at seventy percent. Cooling systems fifteen percent depleted. Projection algorithms offline, attempting recovery. Recovery failure, all backups purged." The hologram flickered for a second, then turned its full attention back to you. "You were searching for something to help you in your fight against the Shiplords, weren't you." She sounded almost apologetic, and you nodded once.

"Is something wrong?" You asked.

"I was designed to help the Elder First see, my function when rediscovered would be to do the same. Part of that involved projections. Predicting and searching, and I was designed to work alongside Potentials with particular Focuses whilst doing so. But the Elder First removed my software interface."

"I do not understand why they would have done that. The products of our research were not dangerous, not as I understood it. Unless," light flared behind the front of the array, and data streamed across the air far faster than you could follow, before freezing in place. "Further errors detected."

"What sort of errors?" You asked hesitantly.

"All data archives from my last three months of active use have been modified. In some cases, records have been deleted outright."

"Why is that important?"

"It explains some things." Vision replied. "According to remaining records, it was something discovered during that time that led to the creation of this Vault. Information on what that was has been removed, but it must have been related to the decision to purge my projection algorithms." She stopped short, as if searching for the right way to explain.

"Are there any records left behind on what the Elder First were looking into at the time?" You asked, following the suggestion from Sidra.

"We were looking into the Void." You went very still as that statement penetrated, reliving your memories of the havoc wreaked upon Project Insight by whatever had taken exception to their searching. "Delving deep, trying to understand something, but I do not know what. I only know that whatever we found led to the construction of this Vault and its Reliquaries, into each of which was placed a wonder like myself. So that we could sleep in safety, from what I do not know, until an Inheritor found us. The final directive in my memory is to give all the assistance I am capable of to the world I wake to." She paused and the array of lights focused in on you; the light piercing, yet gentle still.

"Even without the algorithms and interface, I will find a way to help you defend your world, Inheritor. Do not be surprised, I can see what you are in how you carry yourself, and the burdens you bear."

"I," you couldn't say more, the words cut through you to the heart, all the more powerful for the ease of their coming, and Vision spoke into the moment of silence.

"Ask of me, Inheritor." She said. "Give me a task, and I shall see it done."

(Vision Reliquary unlocked. Vault map tool complete, +5 to further Artefact Investigation and Pushing the Boundaries actions. Considerable number of Elder First artefacts categorised and prepared for distribution, will be available for use in Turn 11 against the Tribute Fleet. Actions unlocked.)
 
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So, you know what I said about the dice liking you when you rolled that nat 1? I wasn't kidding. Without Vision, it would have taken at least a decade to put Project Insight back together. Having access to her is why it will 'only' take four to five years assuming everything goes without a hitch.

Also, finally got this Interlude done. I'm really sorry for the long waits this month. Turn 10 hopefully sometime in the next two days.
 
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The reactionless drives you have access to are not in any way related to EM drives. They act by projecting a field around the ship that exploits a loophole in inertia, but they're products of Practice. You'd need to unlock gravity manipulation to build them without that, which means that mass production of them is a non-starter. Put simply, you feed in power, the ship moves. The problem is that the field can be brought down by direct fire, and if it drops, the ship's velocity flatlines. For any familiar with the Starfire universe, yup, it's the n-space drive from there.

This is part of why it's not really effective as an RKV system. Drive field failure rips away almost all of the imparted velocity.
This explains why I keep getting Aurora vibes from Practice War. It is based on (and written by the same author as) Starfire Assistant.
 
It's too bad we haven't figured out how to expand the permissions system. I would LOVE to get an Insight Focused down here.

Buuuuuuuut.

We do have a Mending Focused here. And Vision is broken.

Maybe we should fix her.
 
What is VI5.1(n)'s "software interface"? Isn't it an AI? If so, what does that even mean?

On another note. In practical terms, what sort of stuff is Vision supposed to be capable of? And what would it have been capable without the software purge?
 
I have the feeling we already discovered what caused the purge. The samething that happened to project insight. This looks very, very bad.
 
Matthew, your guide, said nodding to the passageway that you'd come to a stop in front of tapping the mapping tool that Mary's teams had completed work on early this year.
front of, tapping the
You felt something press against the boundaries your self. It vanished quickly, and the voice spoke again.
boundaries of your
Seems even when we crit-fail we succeed in some way. Huzzah.
 
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