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The Practice War [Complete]

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Let no man's life be cheaply spent. To waste resources in the outer system where the enemy has advantage of surprise, speed, and being able to pick and chose where they strike is just wasting our brave men and women. If we had a full FTL fleet I would not advocate this but since we only have one ship, I feel I must.

We have to pull our resources back just behind the FTL line in the asteroid field. That is a good solution to this problem. They will make for strong FOBs, and the enemy will not want us to have any strongholds behind their battle-lines. That will give us the time to counter them with our forces.

We will lose people I fear, but it's better than losing them in a place where we literally can not respond until after they leave.

As it is, we might be best off using the one FTL ship as a carrier for the 223, and use it as a lone wolf interseptor. And use our conventional forces for pure defense in the inner system.
 
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Sacrificial lambs are also not to my taste (that always tastes like defeat), but dismantling the outer system orbitals also tells the SL something about us.
...
It's a game with a lot of hidden variables ...
 
MTB said:
Sacrificial lambs are also not to my taste (that always tastes like defeat), but dismantling the outer system orbitals also tells the SL something about us.
...
It's a game with a lot of hidden variables ...
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They already know we know something, we took out their spy, the network, and their hidden carrier. They can't not figure that out within a day of showing up.

So us withdrawing wouldn't be completely unexpected.





Is there a way to hid the carrier we have? Having the 223 strike from behind is something I would very much like. Actually, is the Carrier stealthed in any way?
 
GamingGeek said:
Is there a way to hid the carrier we have? Having the 223 strike from behind is something I would very much like. Actually, is the Carrier stealthed in any way?
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When did we get a carrier (and how did I miss it)?
Would the 223 need a carrier? Couldn't they 'just' jump out of Calypso's airlocks?
 
Unless we believe that we have such an overwhelming advantage that we can afford to engage them at the outer orbitals, we're going to have to try to move them. Moving them to just inside the jump line is easiest and hopefully keeps Mars away from the firing line, but it makes it more difficult to keep any of them from escaping and leaves Mars at a disadvantage if they send any force towards it.

Moving them to Mars is more difficult, but leaves us concentrating our entire fleet around the toughest nut short of Earth itself all deep within the jump line where they'll have a hard time escaping. It means that the fleet will be out of position if they head for Earth first, but everything we know about them says that they won't, and Earth has been forted up as much as possible and literally beyond, so It has the best chance it possibly could the be able to withstand them long enough for the fleet to reposition and crush the enemy between the fleet and the Earth defenses.

It's going to come down to our other commitments and the specific numerical difficulties between the three options, but if we can at all afford to, I'd like to make a priority of moving the orbitals to Mars and integrating them into the Martian defenses considering that we would be spending a lot of those dice on building Martian defenses from scratch anyway in the other cases.



GamingGeek said:
They already know we know something, we took out their spy, the network, and their hidden carrier. They can't not figure that out within a day of showing up.

So us withdrawing wouldn't be completely unexpected.





Is there a way to hid the carrier we have? Having the 223 strike from behind is something I would very much like. Actually, is the Carrier stealthed in any way?
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I suggested having the fleet keep Mars in between themselves and the enemy fleet, but apparently FTL sensors aren't hindered by that.
 
GamingGeek said:
As it is, we might be best off using the one FTL ship as a carrier for the 223, and use it as a lone wolf interseptor.
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My lesser complaint is that I don't think that any single "lone wolf" ship would last long at our current tech level.

My bigger problem is that our only FTL ship isn't a carrier, it's the command ship. Somewhat counter intuitive to send it out on it's own.

Right now, I'm leaning towards just setting up for a throw down brawl, our stuff vs. their stuff, nothing held back. We'll see what additional options we have, but I think that's what everything is building towards right now. Let's not shoot ourselves in the foot trying to over-complicate it.
 
Watching them charge in expecting to have the Tombstone information give them a special advantage against the Dauntless class, only to discover the miracle derivative class when they run into it head-first is going to be fun.



Sightsear said:
My lesser complaint is that I don't think that any single "lone wolf" ship would last long at our current tech level.

My bigger problem is that our only FTL ship isn't a carrier, it's the command ship. Somewhat counter intuitive to send it out on it's own.

Right now, I'm leaning towards just setting up for a throw down brawl, our stuff vs. their stuff, nothing held back. We'll see what additional options we have, but I think that's what everything is building towards right now. Let's not shoot ourselves in the foot trying to over-complicate it.
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There's still time to graft a couple of aircraft carriers onto it. They're good for punching stuff.
 
We seem to have figthers, so, we should already have some ships transporting them.
On the other hand, why would the 223 need a carrier? Jumping out of an airlock doesn't need to much specialised gear/engineering.
 
MTB said:
We seem to have figthers, so, we should already have some ships transporting them.
On the other hand, why would the 223 need a carrier? Jumping out of an airlock doesn't need to much specialised gear/engineering.
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I think the plan was to have Calypso hide just outside the exclusion zone (maybe in the asteroid belt) with the 223 on board, then when the SL's commit to an entry vector, zip around to that spot and drop the 223 behind them.
That said, I'm going to vote that we split the platforms between Earth and Mars, with the majority at Mars. (I expect, due to logistics, some will be easier to move to Earth) Then station the majority of the fleet at Mars. Whether the SL's go for Earth or Mars, we have the fleet converge at that planet to meet them.
 
spikethehobbit said:
That said, I'm going to vote that we split the platforms between Earth and Mars, with the majority at Mars. (I expect, due to logistics, some will be easier to move to Earth) Then station the majority of the fleet at Mars. Whether the SL's go for Earth or Mars, we have the fleet converge at that planet to meet them.
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If I may, I'd suggest to wait for the options before voting. Up to now it's 90% speculation and brainstorming because we don't have yet the options menu ...

And if they split the Fleet, go for Mars first hoping Earth holds?
 
spikethehobbit said:
Then station the majority of the fleet at Mars. Whether the SL's go for Earth or Mars, we have the fleet converge at that planet to meet them.
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Presuming we have the psychology right, what the Shiplords will head for first would be our fleet, presumably to prove a point about their superiority. If true (and we have little reason to doubt it) than the last thing we want to do is divide the fleet.

MTB said:
If I may, I'd suggest to wait for the options before voting. Up to now it's 90% speculation and brainstorming because we don't have yet the options menu ...

And if they split the Fleet, go for Mars first hoping Earth holds?
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Also, an excellent point!
 
Sightsear said:
Presuming we have the psychology right, what the Shiplords will head for first would be our fleet, presumably to prove a point about their superiority. If true (and we have little reason to doubt it) than the last thing we want to do is divide the fleet.
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... Basket. Eggs. We are literally playing for high stakes, and if the SL pull out a surprise(*), we don't have second fleet in reserve.

(*) like an emergency response fleet in relative vicinity, alerted by a courier.
 
MTB said:
If I may, I'd suggest to wait for the options before voting. Up to now it's 90% speculation and brainstorming because we don't have yet the options menu ...
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Point.

MTB said:
And if they split the Fleet, go for Mars first hoping Earth holds?
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Earth has stronger defences. If it doesn't hold, nothing will. That is also a reason to move some of the outer orbitals there for reinforcement.

Sightsear said:
Presuming we have the psychology right, what the Shiplords will head for first would be our fleet, presumably to prove a point about their superiority. If true (and we have little reason to doubt it) than the last thing we want to do is divide the fleet.
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The SL's can't jump into the inner system, so we should see them coming. We have inner movement advantage, so we should be able to reposition our fleet before they can strike. If they are that much faster than us sublight, we are screwed anyway.

MTB said:
... Basket. Eggs. We are literally playing for high stakes, and if the SL pull out a surprise(*), we don't have second fleet in reserve.

(*) like an emergency response fleet in relative vicinity, alerted by a courier.
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This, too.
Edit: I just noticed a possible problem while looking up actual orbital distances:
File:InnerSolarSystem-en.png - Wikipedia

'Just inside the asteroid belt' is around the orbit of Mars. I thought we had more room to play with.
 
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MTB said:
From the image, depends if it's inner or outer boundary, and even if it's still a few million km - but a lot less than Earth - Mars.
Tactical FTL is pita.
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Snowfire said 'inside', so that is what I'm going with unless/until otherwise corrected. Further reading says 2.06 AU is considered the inner boundary of the belt proper. Mars orbits at 1.67 AU. Earth is usually around 1. With those numbers, even if Mars and Earth are on the same side of their orbits, Mars is still much closer to the cutoff than it is to Earth.
At this point, I'm going to have to suggest stationing the entire fleet at Mars, and hope Earth can weather the storm. Moving some orbitals to Earth is therefore strongly recommended.
 
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MTB said:
... Basket. Eggs. We are literally playing for high stakes, and if the SL pull out a surprise(*), we don't have second fleet in reserve.
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If we're going with a "All our eggs in one Basket" argument, my counterpoint would be that the ENTIRE Solar System is our basket, and we can't get enough eggs out of it to matter. Probably a bit fear mongery to put it like that, but I don't trust our fleet to win any fight that doesn't have all of our forces present.

Let's not be mistaken here, hull to hull, the ShipLords outclass us in every regard. They are faster, tougher, and shootier than any one of our ships. Practice has closed that gap, made it possible for us to force a win, but it HASN'T overcome it, not completely. We're making up the difference by throwing as many bodies at the problem that we feasibly can...

and that's enough doomsaying for now. I'm off to get lunch, and since ShipLords make me think Reapers, maybe some calamari? Is calamari made from cuttlefish? Nevermind, I'll just get some sushi instead...
 
Earth will be fine. It is already surrounded by miracle-orbitals packing practiced defensive and offensive systems, and 90% of its population are in practiced cities under a planetary defense system and planetary shield network. It'd be nice to have a bit more ground-to-orbit punch, but it's got plenty to do the job of holding against the enemy fleet long enough for our fleet to take them apart. Mars is the one that needs the help.
 
Sightsear said:
Is calamari made from cuttlefish? Nevermind, I'll just get some sushi instead...
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TheEyes said:
Yes, calamari and cuttlefish are the same thing. It's all squid.
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Squidgirl frowns on your shenanigans.

Lailoken said:
Earth will be fine. It is already surrounded by miracle-orbitals packing practiced defensive and offensive systems, and 90% of its population are in practiced cities under a planetary defense system and planetary shield network. It'd be nice to have a bit more ground-to-orbit punch, but it's got plenty to do the job of holding against the enemy fleet long enough for our fleet to take them apart. Mars is the one that needs the help.
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Further lookups: Mars's year is 687 Earth days. It is easiest to bring in orbitals when Mars is closer to them. Bringing them all in to Mars safely is ~2 year project.
 
Keep in mind abandoning the outer orbitals and relocating them to Mars does nothing to address all orbitals inside the No-FTL zone but beyond Mars. You're not consolidating all your defensive assets in one place, merely abandoning a different set of assets to redraw the defensive line. Relocating to Mars means essentially abandoning any operations in Jupiter orbit and allowing the Asteroid belt to be threatened.

Have we been given the exact region where the SL can FTL? Because unless Mars is fairly close to that, I'd much rather maintain a defense in depth and give a measure of protection to all our vitally important mining and refining stations out there. Jupiter alone is a lot of real estate, let alone all the resources in the belt.
 
Karugus said:
Keep in mind abandoning the outer orbitals and relocating them to Mars does nothing to address all orbitals inside the No-FTL zone but beyond Mars. You're not consolidating all your defensive assets in one place, merely abandoning a different set of assets to redraw the defensive line. Relocating to Mars means essentially abandoning any operations in Jupiter orbit and allowing the Asteroid belt to be threatened.

Have we been given the exact region where the SL can FTL? Because unless Mars is fairly close to that, I'd much rather maintain a defense in depth and give a measure of protection to all our vitally important mining and refining stations out there. Jupiter alone is a lot of real estate, let alone all the resources in the belt.
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Snowfire has stated just inside the asteroid belt, which is close to Mars. Jupiter is fully in FTL territory. Anything in FTL territory is effectively undefendable at our current tech level.
Edit:
Mars has roughly 0.33AU depth available, is twice that away from Earth at closest approach, and 2.67AU away at farthest. This also means our 'inside movement' advantage doesn't exist because our two primary assets are too far away from each other.
Earth has the strongest fixed defences, and could theoretically hold a siege until our fleet crosses the system. Mars can't.
The vulnerable orbitals have exactly zero chance of both fighting and surviving unless brought inside the noFTL zone, which already puts them close to Mars, so we might as well gather them together there at our next weakest point.
Earth will also have longer warning time, since it is much deeper in the noFTL zone. That, and known Shiplord doctrine of destroying colonies before attacking the homeworld, puts our mobile assets at Mars.
Edit2:
Our only other viable strategy is to concentrate everything we can at Earth, and hope the SL's ignore the easier targets in favour of killing our fleet. While it has better chance of success if the the SL's take the bait, they aren't stupid, and it leaves Mars wide open.
 
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spikethehobbit said:
Further lookups: Mars's year is 687 Earth days. It is easiest to bring in orbitals when Mars is closer to them. Bringing them all in to Mars safely is ~2 year project.
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We are definitely not looking at efficient use of orbital dynamics here. A Hohmann transfer from the outer solar system wouldn't take ~two years, it'd take a decade or more for the orbital to fall inwards.

Which is to say, they'd be taking a brute-force, straight-line path.

That being said, I'm a bit unsure of what would cause damage if we try to pull them all the way in in a hurry. I could see it failing to finish in time because of insufficient delta-V, but actual damage?
 
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