- Location
- Germany
- Pronouns
- He/Him
We use composites that are the 'new' words (see 'kindergarten'). Or steal from other languages (see 'computer').
The Practice War [Complete]
- Thread starter Snowfire
- Start date
- Original Sci-Fi
- Location
- Earth Aleph
Ich weiß.... ich bin halb Deutscher , halb Franzose.
Of course, there is no real reason not to do much the same in English.
Say RAM - random access memory
An easy way this could be shortened (if you don't like initials or something) could be 'racory', 'acranme'... Just a range the letters in a semi sensible order that works with how your ears perceive things.
If you got a panel of linguists whose job it is to create specific words for a variety of concepts you could do so quite quickly. Of course, once many you people are able to speak, having it as a completely separate language may be useful to avoid accidental use.
Of course, there is no real reason not to do much the same in English.
Say RAM - random access memory
An easy way this could be shortened (if you don't like initials or something) could be 'racory', 'acranme'... Just a range the letters in a semi sensible order that works with how your ears perceive things.
If you got a panel of linguists whose job it is to create specific words for a variety of concepts you could do so quite quickly. Of course, once many you people are able to speak, having it as a completely separate language may be useful to avoid accidental use.
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- Location
- Somewhere out there
German is a synthetic ("pertaining to synthesis," not "artificial") language. Word formation is a standard part of the grammar. You can come up with such gems as "Aufsichtsratsmitgliederversammlung" and nobody will ever say it's not a word even if you can't find it in any dictionary.
But fine. If German's not good enough for you, let's go another step and say Turkish or Georgian instead. Where German is a fusional language, those two are flat-out agglutinative -- that is to say, unlike in English where we use additional words to create a sentence, you can express a complete thought with a single word in those languages by combining pieces together. A famous example in Turkish is "Çekoslovakyalılaştıramadıklarımızdanmışsınız" which means "I hear you are one of the people that we couldn't make Czechoslovakian."
- Location
- Earth Aleph
I feel like I must be pretty terrible at expressing my points concidering the aggressive responses that address points I did not attempt to make.
After all, as a German I am somewhat familiar with how my language works.
After all, as a German I am somewhat familiar with how my language works.
- Location
- Somewhere out there
...? Didn't think I was being particularly aggressive. My sincere apologies if it came across that way.
And apparently MTB is German too?
I mean, you say that, but how many Americans totally butcher English?
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- Location
- Earth Aleph
True enough, I lived in England for quite a while and was always astonished by the ignorance so many people had about their own language.
I expected to be a bit incoherent anyways, as I am currently in hospital drugged up to the gills and writing on my smartphone (with too damn small buttons) so am both somewhat incoherent and aggravated (and so damn bored). Nothing serious, just uncomfortable, so no need to worry.
That said, I'll try again:
German is a good language to create words for specific concepts, but needs time for common usage to file off the rough edges. If you try to accelerate the process using panels of linguists you may as well use any other language. However as speaking becomes more common it may be better to create a whole new language to prevent accidents.
I expected to be a bit incoherent anyways, as I am currently in hospital drugged up to the gills and writing on my smartphone (with too damn small buttons) so am both somewhat incoherent and aggravated (and so damn bored). Nothing serious, just uncomfortable, so no need to worry.
That said, I'll try again:
German is a good language to create words for specific concepts, but needs time for common usage to file off the rough edges. If you try to accelerate the process using panels of linguists you may as well use any other language. However as speaking becomes more common it may be better to create a whole new language to prevent accidents.
- Location
- Somewhere out there
Okay, that's a completely valid point. On the flip side, the verbal part of Speaking is only part of the phenomenon. The resulting effect is heavily colored by the intent and expectations of the Speaker, and the Speaker's understanding of the word being used.
Snowfire
Polyglot of Chimera
- Location
- Wordcats
At the same time, trying to game the system by using single words that have complex meanings is likely to scramble the meaning that one is actually going for.
Just a thought
This brings up the question of where the meaning and power of a particular Word comes from, at least in regards to its Practice-speak effect. Do they come from the technical definition, as specified by a panel of linguists, or, more likely, do they come from the weight of millions of people using the word in everyday language, or the history of that word's use shaping humanity?
Practice, at its core, appears to be about conceptual empowerment of objects (and, with Words, concepts themselves) based on their usage. In order to create a Practiced item you have to use it repeatedly for its intended purpose, during which it becomes conceptually better at what it does; that's not a process that seems amenable to a arbitrary mapping. Consequently, I'm not sure it's even possible to optimize Words the way you're suggesting unless we take the step of having the entire species work at optimizing their language in order to create a word that would have a precise effect when used as a Word; anything else and the Word is likely to have a diminished or nonexistent effect.
(Edit): Heh, and ninja-d by @Snowfire.
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- Location
- Earth Aleph
Those are some good points.
And the answer is to promote linguistics and poetry in the normal school curriculum. Fund some talk shows and game shows that work on subtle wordplay and such to promote public awareness and, most importantly, interest in language. You could try to have the circles give little prizes for 'best argument oof the week', 'most moving short poem' etc to guide the populace to consider language and words more thoroughly.
Of course, that is the job of generations and won't affect game play at all.
And the answer is to promote linguistics and poetry in the normal school curriculum. Fund some talk shows and game shows that work on subtle wordplay and such to promote public awareness and, most importantly, interest in language. You could try to have the circles give little prizes for 'best argument oof the week', 'most moving short poem' etc to guide the populace to consider language and words more thoroughly.
Of course, that is the job of generations and won't affect game play at all.
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- Location
- Somewhere out there
Have... we actually established... that Speaking is in fact limited to a single word?
Or is that just all we've gotten to work so far?
EDIT: Also, this suggests that the best way to Speak a word is to spend a few moments meditating on what you want the word to mean, and then choose a simple word that encompasses that meaning. It's a bit more directed than Schmendrick's "Magic, do as you will!" but the important part is that YOU know what you're trying to say and you put your faith in Practice to interpret your will.
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- Location
- Germany
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Affirmative.
- Location
- Germany
- Pronouns
- He/Him
That might work or not; imagine you invent your very own language and happen to use some words that exist in a language unfamiliar to you, what happens of you use one of these words for Speaking?
- Location
- Somewhere out there
It still does what you expect in a vague sense. It's already been established that definitions that aren't what you're thinking about don't matter, based on Snowfire's insistence that the idea of racial purity would have no impact on speaking Purify. The Speaker's understanding of the word is the lens through which Practice interprets that which is Spoken.
I did. Unfortunately, you're a little too good at playing your cards close to your chest, and my current open questions remain open, specifically because my current open questions pertain to stuff we don't know yet.
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- Location
- Germany
- Pronouns
- He/Him
From memory, the speaker's intent matters. Where I wouldn't bet on conscious intent.
- Location
- Somewhere out there
If anything, my question is in the vein of "is there stuff that Insight (EDIT: or Amanda/Vega/Mary) knows that hasn't been communicated to the players yet?"
Oh, most certainly.
- Location
- Germany
- Pronouns
- He/Him
... I'm right and you also think the subconsciousness plays a role, or I'm not right and it's only the conscious intent that matters?
Snowfire
Polyglot of Chimera
- Location
- Wordcats
I mean, of course there's stuff they know that you don't. But explaining everything they know that you don't would take hours. Can you narrow it down a little for me? Please? >.<
- Location
- Somewhere out there
The former: I agree that the interpretation of your intent goes beyond your conscious thought.
My specific question is if we know that Speaking is necessarily limited to a single word, or if our understanding suggests it could be more if we were to dig deeper, or if this is something we don't actually know at all.
Snowfire
Polyglot of Chimera
- Location
- Wordcats
Theoretically, there's nothing stopping a Potential Speaking more than a single word. If it's actually possible to do so is quite a different story, and one that's yet to be told. Something to take into account here is that Speaking Practice was something that only became truly proven after the SBOS. Amanda did so a few times before then, and you did start researching it, but actual, real proof that it was possible? You didn't have that until Purify. There's more than one way in which that changed the human perception of reality.
Turn 16 - Forward and Back
Snowfire
Polyglot of Chimera
- Location
- Wordcats
July 10th, 2121
You hopped from foot to foot excitedly as the elevator descended towards the basement workshop built into the Residence, that you'd never had the chance to use. That lack of use had been a constant itch throughout your Presidency, but there'd always been more important matters to attend to. Ensuring the survival of your species really did a number on one's free time. But now that was over, and for the first time in twenty years you finally had the chance to sit down and build something. It was a nice feeling.
The elevator doors slid open, and you clapped your hands, the sharp sound bringing the large room alive. Lights flickered on, construction systems hummed cheerfully to life, and you breathed in deeply. The sterile cleanliness of the place was familiar and welcoming, a reminder of brighter days when you'd forged tools in the pursuit of miracles. Peaceful things, even if you'd since learned how to turn one of them to the cause of defending your home. You'd only ever created two of them, three if you counted the strange crystal that you'd made with Mary.
Someone unknowing of the complexities of a Potential's craft might think that strange. If you could make things so much better than what they started out, why not do so freely? But Practice was a funny thing that way. You could, of course, take an item already created and pour power into it. That was how the Potentials had changed human existence, after all. Giving humanity the tools to fly, and challenge the power of the Shiplords. Where it came to your tools, however, that process didn't quite cut it. A Practiced Artefact was more than just an item used again and again until it became greater than it'd once been. They began life as more than a simple object. Or at least, most did. Some, like Kalilah's Lance, came into the possession of the Potential as more. All of your Artefacts had been of the former variety. Built by your own hands, and brought together by Practice. Which made your crystal something of an oddity.
But then, your life was full of oddities now. What was that crystal compared to Iris, after all. A smile tugged at your lips at the thought. You had a lot of work to with her this year, no thanks to Adriana. Not that you were really complaining for proper, Ministerial support as you tried to work out how to upgrade her systems beyond what Mary and you had been able to give her. More Mary than yourself, if you were being honest. Maybe you could change that this year? That would be nice.
But that wasn't why you were down here, the selection of tools and material you'd laid out quite without thinking about it was proof of that. You could use this time to look at one of your past creations, but you weren't sure that you wanted to. Your multitool was the modern-day equivalent of a 20th century Swiss Army Knife, and it had been key to the many successes you'd enjoyed in your years mending the Pre-Sorrows world. Yet you'd grown so much since those days. Words had replaced your need for a tool of Mending, or so you felt.
Which left the strange, blackbody crystal; the result of trying to push the boundaries of your Practice in a way you still couldn't quite remember. You could try to make sense of it on your own, but you weren't sure you had any real chance of success. Not when everything beyond its physical existence and how exhausted you'd been after creating it remained a mystery, despite Mary's best efforts.
Both were still options, but as you looked down at the worktop, you considered that maybe there was a better one. Instead of going back to what you'd left behind, you could make something new. An Artefact suited to the person that you were today, and the world you'd come to live in. Your concert set and multitool had been created to amplify part of your Focus. One had helped you piece a broken world back together, and the other had brought you closer to people. Let you be heard. Those had been what you'd needed then.
What did you need now?
You have three choices here. Two involve working on previous creations, with differing DCs involved in doing so. The multitool will be relatively simple to relearn, while the Void Crystal would be difficult to unravel with Mary helping you. Before you ask, she isn't available to do so right now. Something about Mars. The final option involves creating an entirely new Practiced Item for Amanda. If you choose this option, I will need a general direction for what you want her to try to make. Be aware that building a weapon is unlikely to fly, simply due to the nature of her Focus. There are other devices than weapons used in battle, however. If they would be the right thing to make is another matter, and wholly up to yourselves.
[] World's Remedy (Multitool) - Medium DC
[] Blackbody Mystery (Void Crystal) - Very High DC
[] A Mender's Forge (Write-in) - DC varies depending on write-in.
You hopped from foot to foot excitedly as the elevator descended towards the basement workshop built into the Residence, that you'd never had the chance to use. That lack of use had been a constant itch throughout your Presidency, but there'd always been more important matters to attend to. Ensuring the survival of your species really did a number on one's free time. But now that was over, and for the first time in twenty years you finally had the chance to sit down and build something. It was a nice feeling.
The elevator doors slid open, and you clapped your hands, the sharp sound bringing the large room alive. Lights flickered on, construction systems hummed cheerfully to life, and you breathed in deeply. The sterile cleanliness of the place was familiar and welcoming, a reminder of brighter days when you'd forged tools in the pursuit of miracles. Peaceful things, even if you'd since learned how to turn one of them to the cause of defending your home. You'd only ever created two of them, three if you counted the strange crystal that you'd made with Mary.
Someone unknowing of the complexities of a Potential's craft might think that strange. If you could make things so much better than what they started out, why not do so freely? But Practice was a funny thing that way. You could, of course, take an item already created and pour power into it. That was how the Potentials had changed human existence, after all. Giving humanity the tools to fly, and challenge the power of the Shiplords. Where it came to your tools, however, that process didn't quite cut it. A Practiced Artefact was more than just an item used again and again until it became greater than it'd once been. They began life as more than a simple object. Or at least, most did. Some, like Kalilah's Lance, came into the possession of the Potential as more. All of your Artefacts had been of the former variety. Built by your own hands, and brought together by Practice. Which made your crystal something of an oddity.
But then, your life was full of oddities now. What was that crystal compared to Iris, after all. A smile tugged at your lips at the thought. You had a lot of work to with her this year, no thanks to Adriana. Not that you were really complaining for proper, Ministerial support as you tried to work out how to upgrade her systems beyond what Mary and you had been able to give her. More Mary than yourself, if you were being honest. Maybe you could change that this year? That would be nice.
But that wasn't why you were down here, the selection of tools and material you'd laid out quite without thinking about it was proof of that. You could use this time to look at one of your past creations, but you weren't sure that you wanted to. Your multitool was the modern-day equivalent of a 20th century Swiss Army Knife, and it had been key to the many successes you'd enjoyed in your years mending the Pre-Sorrows world. Yet you'd grown so much since those days. Words had replaced your need for a tool of Mending, or so you felt.
Which left the strange, blackbody crystal; the result of trying to push the boundaries of your Practice in a way you still couldn't quite remember. You could try to make sense of it on your own, but you weren't sure you had any real chance of success. Not when everything beyond its physical existence and how exhausted you'd been after creating it remained a mystery, despite Mary's best efforts.
Both were still options, but as you looked down at the worktop, you considered that maybe there was a better one. Instead of going back to what you'd left behind, you could make something new. An Artefact suited to the person that you were today, and the world you'd come to live in. Your concert set and multitool had been created to amplify part of your Focus. One had helped you piece a broken world back together, and the other had brought you closer to people. Let you be heard. Those had been what you'd needed then.
What did you need now?
You have three choices here. Two involve working on previous creations, with differing DCs involved in doing so. The multitool will be relatively simple to relearn, while the Void Crystal would be difficult to unravel with Mary helping you. Before you ask, she isn't available to do so right now. Something about Mars. The final option involves creating an entirely new Practiced Item for Amanda. If you choose this option, I will need a general direction for what you want her to try to make. Be aware that building a weapon is unlikely to fly, simply due to the nature of her Focus. There are other devices than weapons used in battle, however. If they would be the right thing to make is another matter, and wholly up to yourselves.
[] World's Remedy (Multitool) - Medium DC
[] Blackbody Mystery (Void Crystal) - Very High DC
[] A Mender's Forge (Write-in) - DC varies depending on write-in.
Snowfire
Polyglot of Chimera
- Location
- Wordcats
The results for this vote won't actually show up next post, that one's going to be dedicated to the results of Avatar . Where Mender's Forge is concerned, I'm looking for a simple description of what you'd like Amanda to try and make. Like, a single sentence at most. The more you can reduce it down, the better. As I expect this will be asked, no, you cannot use this action to make something for Mary. This is the first time in twenty-plus years that Mandy's had the opportunity to kick back and mess with things. You can call it selfish if you like, she'd probably agree, but this is time for her. That is, in fact, what this entire sabbatical was about.
Write-ins are functionally approved until I tell you they aren't. If you're deeply unsure about the validity of one, tag me with it and I'll get back to you as quickly as I can. Not tonight, however. It's late, and I want my sleep. I hope the little bit of background to Practiced Artefacts was interesting as well as flavourful. As a note, Kalilah only has the single Artefact, and only a handful of Potentials have more than three. Two to three devices is more than enough for most, and is also pushing the edge of what even a Potential can effectively utilise at once.
If there's anything that really sticks out as messed up in this passage, it's because I'm posting it at 3am. Please forgive any mistakes, and if you point them out to me I'll be in your debt.
Good night!
Write-ins are functionally approved until I tell you they aren't. If you're deeply unsure about the validity of one, tag me with it and I'll get back to you as quickly as I can. Not tonight, however. It's late, and I want my sleep. I hope the little bit of background to Practiced Artefacts was interesting as well as flavourful. As a note, Kalilah only has the single Artefact, and only a handful of Potentials have more than three. Two to three devices is more than enough for most, and is also pushing the edge of what even a Potential can effectively utilise at once.
If there's anything that really sticks out as messed up in this passage, it's because I'm posting it at 3am. Please forgive any mistakes, and if you point them out to me I'll be in your debt.
Good night!
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Garm352
Bearer of the Stars of Creation
- Location
- The Void Between Stars
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] A Mender's Forge (Write-in) - DC varies depending on write-in.
-[X] A Sewing Needle
--[X] Mandy's been patching holes in people's hearts for a long time, through word, through deed, through leadership, and through the Circles. A tool to help with more literal mending might just be useful, then.
She already has the concert set to help with speaking if she really needs it; so I figured a tool that represents both literal and metaphoric mending might be able to bridge the gap between her more esoteric Practice and her more physical Mending, like what she did with the cities on Earth and with Mytikas on Mars.
-[X] A Sewing Needle
--[X] Mandy's been patching holes in people's hearts for a long time, through word, through deed, through leadership, and through the Circles. A tool to help with more literal mending might just be useful, then.
She already has the concert set to help with speaking if she really needs it; so I figured a tool that represents both literal and metaphoric mending might be able to bridge the gap between her more esoteric Practice and her more physical Mending, like what she did with the cities on Earth and with Mytikas on Mars.
- Location
- Somewhere out there
[x] World's Remedy (Multitool)
Given that a lot of what we're doing here is trying to reconnect with our roots to give us a solid foundation to start building from, I think it would be best to dig into a device that we used for ten years before we took the Presidency, a device that has as its Practiced legacy the acts of building and rebuilding, a device that has seen a huge amounts of Practice poured into it. Yes, it was Practiced by a younger, less skillful Amanda, but that's why we're digging back into it now instead of just picking it back up and trying to remember how to use it.
Given that a lot of what we're doing here is trying to reconnect with our roots to give us a solid foundation to start building from, I think it would be best to dig into a device that we used for ten years before we took the Presidency, a device that has as its Practiced legacy the acts of building and rebuilding, a device that has seen a huge amounts of Practice poured into it. Yes, it was Practiced by a younger, less skillful Amanda, but that's why we're digging back into it now instead of just picking it back up and trying to remember how to use it.
The multitool is already that.