Baldur is no go so the question remains who to who?
The Lost Primarch Quest
- Thread starter Daemon Hunter
- Start date
TinyGladiator
Just another SVer
- Location
- I move alot.
@Daemon Hunter By the way, I realise I should probably have asked earlier, how exactly does sending a Hero to a Social go? And what does that mean for later in that turn, is the Hero still available to use for compliances or is that dependant on the Social?
Nicholas Brooks
Redeemer and Destroyer
- Location
- United States
Like I suggested, Oriacarius and Maticus. The rest of our Astartes aren't the best at socializing. Ori isn't either but he makes up for it in fame and respect.
Maybe Ori to Karcer, Auro to Magnus and Corvus since he knows esoteric stuff and Maticus to Mortarion and Sanguinous?
I'm a dumb sandwich, I can't think of a better idea🤷
I'm a dumb sandwich, I can't think of a better idea🤷
- Location
- USA
Kesar needs to do Karcer. We said we would talk to her.
And he really needs to do the meeting about the Eldar. That will have big ramifications and he should be there on the ground floor since he will be making the decisions on how his legion at least interacts with them. Plus strengthening ties to the two other primarchs there.
And he really needs to do the meeting about the Eldar. That will have big ramifications and he should be there on the ground floor since he will be making the decisions on how his legion at least interacts with them. Plus strengthening ties to the two other primarchs there.
Karcer we need to explain are side of the story
- Location
- Elsewhere
It generally means a reduced effect and that takes up the heroes time. But they are available for compliances afterward.
Basically we aren't coaxing as much information out of them as we would if Kesar had gone, but we still get something important, but are probably missing a bit of critical context.
There is a possible solution to this measure, Daemon. Have the hero speak directly with another hero of the legion they have a solid reputation with so they can talk with the Primarch on their behalf. Granted, the trade-off here is that we are getting this information second-hand, but it would be the most effective use of time.
EDIT: This is really hilarious to realize that as long as Orion is alive, we can pretty much always send him to Khan when he returns and basically get a free social.
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Big E in a nutshell:
"I wanted to unite my people, extinguishing alien threats such as Orks, Nephilim and Drukhari in the process so as Chaos"(What he preached) vs "I want to murder anything non-human, regardless of their relationships with humans or threat level and wilfully ignore Chaos like it doesn't exist."(What he actually did)
"I wanted to unite my people, extinguishing alien threats such as Orks, Nephilim and Drukhari in the process so as Chaos"(What he preached) vs "I want to murder anything non-human, regardless of their relationships with humans or threat level and wilfully ignore Chaos like it doesn't exist."(What he actually did)
Nicholas Brooks
Redeemer and Destroyer
- Location
- United States
[X] Plan Where It Counts
-[X] Vect (LOCKED)
-[X] Guilliman (LOCKED)
-[X] Karcer
-[X] Warden Heroes
-[X] Fulgrim and Ferrus
--[X] Maticus
-[X] Sanguinius and Mortarion
--[X] Oriacarius
-[X] Omegon
[X] Plan Where It Counts But Also Ghost Soldier
-[X] Vect (LOCKED)
-[X] Guilliman (LOCKED)
-[X] Karcer
-[X] Warden Heroes
-[X] Mara
--[X] Durante and Vergil
-[X] Fulgrim and Ferrus
--[X] Maticus
-[X] Sanguinius and Mortarion
--[X] Oriacarius
-[X] Omegon
[X] Plan Politics I Guess?
-[X] Vect (LOCKED)
-[X] Guilliman (LOCKED)
-[X] Mara
--[X] Maticus
-[X] Fulgrim and Ferrus
-[X] Sanguinius and Mortarion
--[X] Oriacarius
-[X] Corvus and Magnus
-[X] Omegon
I present to you... options. First and second plans are my preferences but some people seem very keen on this sort of thing so I made a plan based around that too.
Edit: It's not perfect but it's better than most of the alternatives at least.
[X] Plan Turning the Tide Alternative
-[X] Vect (LOCKED)
-[X] Guilliman (LOCKED)
-[X] Karcer
-[X] Warden Heroes
-[X] Fulgrim and Ferrus
--[X] Maticus
-[X] Sanguinius and Mortarion
--[X] Oriacarius
-[X] Omegon
[X] Plan Where It Counts But Also Ghost Soldier
-[X] Vect (LOCKED)
-[X] Guilliman (LOCKED)
-[X] Karcer
-[X] Warden Heroes
-[X] Mara
--[X] Durante and Vergil
-[X] Fulgrim and Ferrus
--[X] Maticus
-[X] Sanguinius and Mortarion
--[X] Oriacarius
-[X] Omegon
[X] Plan Politics I Guess?
-[X] Vect (LOCKED)
-[X] Guilliman (LOCKED)
-[X] Mara
--[X] Maticus
-[X] Fulgrim and Ferrus
-[X] Sanguinius and Mortarion
--[X] Oriacarius
-[X] Corvus and Magnus
-[X] Omegon
I present to you... options. First and second plans are my preferences but some people seem very keen on this sort of thing so I made a plan based around that too.
Edit: It's not perfect but it's better than most of the alternatives at least.
[X] Plan Turning the Tide Alternative
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[X] Plan Where It Counts But Also Ghost Soldier
-[X] Vect (LOCKED)
-[X] Guilliman (LOCKED)
-[X] Karcer
-[X] Warden Heroes
-[X] Mara
--[X] Durante and Vergil
-[X] Fulgrim and Ferrus
--[X] Maticus
-[X] Sanguinius and Mortarion
--[X] Oriacarius
-[X] Omegon
-[X] Vect (LOCKED)
-[X] Guilliman (LOCKED)
-[X] Karcer
-[X] Warden Heroes
-[X] Mara
--[X] Durante and Vergil
-[X] Fulgrim and Ferrus
--[X] Maticus
-[X] Sanguinius and Mortarion
--[X] Oriacarius
-[X] Omegon
- Location
- Elsewhere
One thing I should warn you about is that your heroes may be influenced by some of the socials they undertake. For Mara and Fulgrim especially, the two of them are charismatic.
- Location
- The Golden State
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] Plan Politics I Guess?
-[X] Vect (LOCKED)
-[X] Guilliman (LOCKED)
-[X] Mara
--[X] Maticus
-[X] Fulgrim and Ferrus
-[X] Sanguinius and Mortarion
--[X] Oriacarius
-[X] Corvus and Magnus
-[X] Omegon
-[X] Vect (LOCKED)
-[X] Guilliman (LOCKED)
-[X] Mara
--[X] Maticus
-[X] Fulgrim and Ferrus
-[X] Sanguinius and Mortarion
--[X] Oriacarius
-[X] Corvus and Magnus
-[X] Omegon
Nicholas Brooks
Redeemer and Destroyer
- Location
- United States
If Fulgrim's able to convince one of our Heroes to stick with Emps after they received the bombshell that is his grand replacement scheme, I'm gonna have to give it to the Phoenician, he's clearly the best mind controller in the galaxy.
- Location
- Elsewhere
While I can confirm that's out of the question, there are a number of intermediate steps in between that they could be swayed towards.
That or just coloring certain perspectives. I'm sure a few of our heroes wouldn't be happy to know why the Goliath Protocol is being enacted.
TinyGladiator
Just another SVer
- Location
- I move alot.
[X] Plan A Burning Galaxy.
-[X] Sacrifice 5 research years for 1 social
-[X] Vect
-[X] Guilliman
-[X] Lord General Militant Karcer
-[X] Warden Heroes
-[X] Lord General Mara
--[X] Maticus
-[X] The Renegade Few
--[X] Oriacarius
-[X] Fulgrim and Ferrus
-[X] Sanguinius and Mortarion
I really didn't want to, uh, want to sacrifice research for anything because god damn do I love what research brings us, yet this is a critical time.
Vect and Guilliman are locked in already, so no need to describe that.
Karcer is not really critical for upcoming civil war directly, but she is perhaps one of the most critical for Keasr Dorlin's concerns. The Maelstrom region is the toughest beast that the Eternal Wardens are facing, and she's perhaps the most important person for managing the compliance besides Kesar Dorin and Oriacarius themselves. She's good for the Imperial Army, focuses on their well-being and morale despite literally being in fucking hell land, and she's competent and reasonable and really good at what she's doing. She wants answers and she's more than earned them.
Also, uh, she literally lost her previous job of managing an entire Segmentum due to facing against Primarchs about this issue back during the initial war to clear the Maelstrom (due to, you know, not knowing about Chaos) and is, in fact, helping wage a colossal compliance across the whole Maelstrom region (which is still full of Chaos which she still didn't really know about). I think it's time to talk with her.
Warden Heroes because, for one, I feel like Kesar would not hide this fucking bombshell of information he got to the greatest of his Legion. He told Maticus and Oriacarius about working with the Harlequins before, it's time to share the sour fruit that's come from this work. For two, if we're sending them off for socials, then I say now is the time that they know exactly what the Emperor of Mankind is planning to better make whatever choices they make.
Also, uh, especially if we're working with the Eldar to the point that if they ask for a Warden Hero to arrive then it might be best to paint them even more positively. Gotta foster relations, ya know!
Lord General Mara because civil war is right on the brink and her faction is being attacked by the Emperor of Mankind directly. Her demands are not unreasonable, her goals are just, her work is worth doing. Whether it can be prevented or delayed, now's the time to make a choice and it's one Vulkan and Konrad are already doing. Softer than if Kesar himself arrived, but among his sons Maticus is one of the absolute closest to his hearts and I think can act just as he should.
The Renegade Few might seem odd to show up with Vulkan, Konrad, Perturabo and Mortarion and instead send Oriacarius but he is an exemplary commander with a contingency for anything and has more than earned the respect of Perturabo at least for his sharpened mind. In preparing for war, there's few better than the First Captain and Legion Master of the Eternal Wardens.
Fulgrim and Ferrus are Kesar's brothers. Not as close as some others, even if they helped create Epitaph for Kesar. But with the Imperial Truth shattered and now advice to freely share on that delightful divine mess that's happening, it's a good time to talk. And if Fulgrim joins the rebels, and thus Ferrus, then that is a dramatic difference for the civil war and could legitimately be the big difference between failure and victory. We have to try to tip those scales, if only to see them one last time before war erupts.
Sanguinius and Mortarion is raising severe red flags. Elephant in the room time, but Mortarion is planning to commit to civil war and nothing is stopping him or putting brakes on him. Wanting to meet with Sanguinius and not have the previously requested third party, and with no provided reason? That's a very dangerous look, assuming it's not Mortarion sharing that his sons were being assassinated and by whom. I think Kesar needs to show up and see what the fuck is going on. Mortarion went to Nuceria with Kesar, and Sanguinius and his sons were saved on 63-19 due to Kesar Dorlin's sons saving the day.
Alternatively, if we wanna go all in, here's another plan that adds Omegon the God of Espionage, Traps and Theft, who might be the biggest actor to play for upcoming civil war especially if we turn him more towards the rebel side (perhaps by dropping the Eldar prophecy about the fucking madness the Emperor is pulling) or at least mitigating how bad things can get. Kesar and him are best-bros too.
[X] Plan Whatever It Takes.
-[X] Sacrifice 5 research years for 1 social x2
-[X] Vect
-[X] Guilliman
-[X] Lord General Militant Karcer
-[X] Warden Heroes
-[X] Lord General Mara
--[X] Maticus
-[X] The Renegade Few
--[X] Oriacarius
-[X] Fulgrim and Ferrus
-[X] Sanguinius and Mortarion
-[X] Omegon
-[X] Sacrifice 5 research years for 1 social
-[X] Vect
-[X] Guilliman
-[X] Lord General Militant Karcer
-[X] Warden Heroes
-[X] Lord General Mara
--[X] Maticus
-[X] The Renegade Few
--[X] Oriacarius
-[X] Fulgrim and Ferrus
-[X] Sanguinius and Mortarion
I really didn't want to, uh, want to sacrifice research for anything because god damn do I love what research brings us, yet this is a critical time.
Vect and Guilliman are locked in already, so no need to describe that.
Karcer is not really critical for upcoming civil war directly, but she is perhaps one of the most critical for Keasr Dorlin's concerns. The Maelstrom region is the toughest beast that the Eternal Wardens are facing, and she's perhaps the most important person for managing the compliance besides Kesar Dorin and Oriacarius themselves. She's good for the Imperial Army, focuses on their well-being and morale despite literally being in fucking hell land, and she's competent and reasonable and really good at what she's doing. She wants answers and she's more than earned them.
Also, uh, she literally lost her previous job of managing an entire Segmentum due to facing against Primarchs about this issue back during the initial war to clear the Maelstrom (due to, you know, not knowing about Chaos) and is, in fact, helping wage a colossal compliance across the whole Maelstrom region (which is still full of Chaos which she still didn't really know about). I think it's time to talk with her.
Warden Heroes because, for one, I feel like Kesar would not hide this fucking bombshell of information he got to the greatest of his Legion. He told Maticus and Oriacarius about working with the Harlequins before, it's time to share the sour fruit that's come from this work. For two, if we're sending them off for socials, then I say now is the time that they know exactly what the Emperor of Mankind is planning to better make whatever choices they make.
Also, uh, especially if we're working with the Eldar to the point that if they ask for a Warden Hero to arrive then it might be best to paint them even more positively. Gotta foster relations, ya know!
Lord General Mara because civil war is right on the brink and her faction is being attacked by the Emperor of Mankind directly. Her demands are not unreasonable, her goals are just, her work is worth doing. Whether it can be prevented or delayed, now's the time to make a choice and it's one Vulkan and Konrad are already doing. Softer than if Kesar himself arrived, but among his sons Maticus is one of the absolute closest to his hearts and I think can act just as he should.
The Renegade Few might seem odd to show up with Vulkan, Konrad, Perturabo and Mortarion and instead send Oriacarius but he is an exemplary commander with a contingency for anything and has more than earned the respect of Perturabo at least for his sharpened mind. In preparing for war, there's few better than the First Captain and Legion Master of the Eternal Wardens.
Fulgrim and Ferrus are Kesar's brothers. Not as close as some others, even if they helped create Epitaph for Kesar. But with the Imperial Truth shattered and now advice to freely share on that delightful divine mess that's happening, it's a good time to talk. And if Fulgrim joins the rebels, and thus Ferrus, then that is a dramatic difference for the civil war and could legitimately be the big difference between failure and victory. We have to try to tip those scales, if only to see them one last time before war erupts.
Sanguinius and Mortarion is raising severe red flags. Elephant in the room time, but Mortarion is planning to commit to civil war and nothing is stopping him or putting brakes on him. Wanting to meet with Sanguinius and not have the previously requested third party, and with no provided reason? That's a very dangerous look, assuming it's not Mortarion sharing that his sons were being assassinated and by whom. I think Kesar needs to show up and see what the fuck is going on. Mortarion went to Nuceria with Kesar, and Sanguinius and his sons were saved on 63-19 due to Kesar Dorlin's sons saving the day.
Alternatively, if we wanna go all in, here's another plan that adds Omegon the God of Espionage, Traps and Theft, who might be the biggest actor to play for upcoming civil war especially if we turn him more towards the rebel side (perhaps by dropping the Eldar prophecy about the fucking madness the Emperor is pulling) or at least mitigating how bad things can get. Kesar and him are best-bros too.
[X] Plan Whatever It Takes.
-[X] Sacrifice 5 research years for 1 social x2
-[X] Vect
-[X] Guilliman
-[X] Lord General Militant Karcer
-[X] Warden Heroes
-[X] Lord General Mara
--[X] Maticus
-[X] The Renegade Few
--[X] Oriacarius
-[X] Fulgrim and Ferrus
-[X] Sanguinius and Mortarion
-[X] Omegon
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Nicholas Brooks
Redeemer and Destroyer
- Location
- United States
Alpharius is already the rebel one, since he thinks Vulkan's got some good points. If you want to convince someone who isn't on board then you'd need to go for Omegon.
Not that I'm a fan of either of these with how you seem to prioritize the Renegade Few and Mara to the point you want us to sacrifice 5 research actions for them at minimum and all of them at maximum. Honestly, how can you think that either of those would do anywhere near as much as 5 research actions would?
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[X] Plan Turning the Tide
-[X] Sacrifice 5 research years for 1 social x2
-[X] Vect
-[X] Guilliman
-[X] Lord General Militant Karcer
--[X] Oriacarius
-[X] Warden Heroes
-[X] Lord General Mara
--[X] Maticus
-[X] Fulgrim and Ferrus
-[X] Sanguinius and Mortarion
-[X] Alpharius
-[X] Omegon
Personally, I'm of the mind that it is going to be very difficult to convince Omegon to support the rebel cause. He may still be at Best Friend level but there is one very critical difference in the writing between Alpharius' and Omegon's socials that makes me think it's going to be very difficult to effectively leverage that into making Omegon switch sides.
Omegon's first concern here is not fixing the Imperium, like how Alpharius' is, rather he wants to stabilize the Imperium. At this time, stablizing the Imperium would mean either a lot of well-timed assassinations or brutal tyrannical force being exerted, and if either fails in the slightest, the Imperium will break.
We need to convince Omegon that the Emperor's current course of action is not sustainable and is guaranteed to end in failure, and if we can get Alpharius on the same page as us and when combined with the reveal of Eldar intel (at least to Alpharius if not Omegon), then we might just be able to make Omegon see how unstable Emps' plan would make the Imperium. If we can get Omegon to realize that it is not the Emperor who will be able to keep the Imperium stable but rather Vulkan's cause and reforms, then we might just be able to get Omegon to consider the rebel cause as more than just a group of rabble rousers and destabilizing influences.
-[X] Sacrifice 5 research years for 1 social x2
-[X] Vect
-[X] Guilliman
-[X] Lord General Militant Karcer
--[X] Oriacarius
-[X] Warden Heroes
-[X] Lord General Mara
--[X] Maticus
-[X] Fulgrim and Ferrus
-[X] Sanguinius and Mortarion
-[X] Alpharius
-[X] Omegon
Personally, I'm of the mind that it is going to be very difficult to convince Omegon to support the rebel cause. He may still be at Best Friend level but there is one very critical difference in the writing between Alpharius' and Omegon's socials that makes me think it's going to be very difficult to effectively leverage that into making Omegon switch sides.
Omegon's first concern here is not fixing the Imperium, like how Alpharius' is, rather he wants to stabilize the Imperium. At this time, stablizing the Imperium would mean either a lot of well-timed assassinations or brutal tyrannical force being exerted, and if either fails in the slightest, the Imperium will break.
We need to convince Omegon that the Emperor's current course of action is not sustainable and is guaranteed to end in failure, and if we can get Alpharius on the same page as us and when combined with the reveal of Eldar intel (at least to Alpharius if not Omegon), then we might just be able to make Omegon see how unstable Emps' plan would make the Imperium. If we can get Omegon to realize that it is not the Emperor who will be able to keep the Imperium stable but rather Vulkan's cause and reforms, then we might just be able to get Omegon to consider the rebel cause as more than just a group of rabble rousers and destabilizing influences.
[X] Plan Turning the Tide
Nicholas Brooks
Redeemer and Destroyer
- Location
- United States
This I can moreso understand but I do still have a big problem with it: Karcer. If the intention is to regain some of her respect or at least trust, it needs Kesar to be there in person. Karcer already knows Ori but her only interactions with Kesar have been "book, massive loss against an AI despite her protests, reveal that he and his Legion have been keeping the existence of Warp superbeings a secret from her." Ori instead can go to Fulgrim/Ferrus or Sang/Mort imo.
TinyGladiator
Just another SVer
- Location
- I move alot.
I'll be honest I forgot which was which for the Twins.
Mainly, I think Mara and the Renegade Few because those two are basically right at the epicentre of civil war stuff. Mara because she's the leader of the Gamma bloc that's facing the Emperor's wrath, which is causing such huge shit it's absurd, and the Renegade Few because civil war is being planned and being there would let us know exactly what the main rebel side is planning.
TinyGladiator
Just another SVer
- Location
- I move alot.
[X] Plan Turning the Tide
[X] Plan Turning the Tide Alternative
The idea of doing both the Twins is too good to pass up. They're Kesar's best bros. I'd rather Kesar talk with Karcer, but I'd rather Fulgrim and Ferrus as well as Sanguinius and Mortarion are dealt with by Kesar personally way more.
Edit: Well, there's an option to do that too.
[X] Plan Turning the Tide Alternative
The idea of doing both the Twins is too good to pass up. They're Kesar's best bros. I'd rather Kesar talk with Karcer, but I'd rather Fulgrim and Ferrus as well as Sanguinius and Mortarion are dealt with by Kesar personally way more.
Edit: Well, there's an option to do that too.
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Nicholas Brooks
Redeemer and Destroyer
- Location
- United States
And what will having a talk with her do? Most likely nothing. The Renegade Few is a bit more understandable but even assuming Perturabo wouldn't tell Kesar the plan unless we send someone there, we lack any means of affecting the outcome.
Admittedly that's the case for most of these, but what can ya do. And I doubt anyone presently would vote for a plan that converts a social into research.
Nah I don't care about the respect angle. I really just don't want Karcer to do something stupid like try to reveal Chaos and Ori has a close enough working relationship with her that he would be able to get her to not do that. I really would like to have our social be with Karcer, but Kesar is much better equipped to keep the peace between Sang and Morty as well as debate with Fulgrim/Ferrus.
Ori is pretty good and has a lot of contingencies, but Kesar is way more powerful in combat in case Morty does try something and his psychic powers too are a really good boon for that stuff, also, Mortarion is much more likely to respect Kesar than Ori because as far as I'm aware, Morty has not even met Ori while he at least has a healthy respect for Kesar.
As for Fulgrim/Ferrus, Kesar being a Primarch again carries much more weight than our First Captain when it comes to a debate and so I think it's a bit more helpful for Kesar to be at the Fulgrim/Ferrus social than it is for him to be at the Karcer social.