The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up

Azgrin · Oct 23, 2019

Red Bovine said:
Making a lot of assumptions there. One of the things I repeatedly see is people always jumping on the Emperor's D and acting like no one can improve upon his work like he was the absolute best at everything. This despite ignoring the fact that the Emperor did in fact also had help with making the Space Marines IIRC and in canon Cawl was able to improve upon the Astartes after over ten thousand years of research.

I get that people are hesitant about doing the TW research which is why I suggested the comprimise that we should see about getting Cawl to come to Avernus since it was agreed upon by a lot of people that him being on Avernus would be better for everyone since it would help with his research and his specialty being in super soldiers means that he would be perfect to be the one to do the TWs research.

Cawl has a ton of more important things to do once he has access to Avernus that will boost the sane. His backlog flows something like this. Primaris> Primaris Rubicon> Grey Knights and Custodes or going to Quartus to do Primaris Trueborn. Even for the amazing Custodian Genetor that's a lot of time.

Doomed Wombat · Oct 23, 2019

Nurgle said:
You spent a considerable amount of time yesterday arguing with me to Divine Chaos power ups than vote for a plan that does not divine for chaos power ups.

You're right and I also don't want to do thunder warriors.

I AM FREAKING TRAPPED

[X] APPLES!

Dragon_352 said:
clearly he has decided that other aspects of the vote-plans are such that he likes the other one more.....(or is being spiteful)

Now that is insulting.

Why on earth would I be spiteful about this of all things!

random_npc · Oct 23, 2019

I would like to make a case for doing the TW after the timeskip. There are a few reasons.

1. there is at least a moderate chance callmus will do at least part of the chain. their a big forge empire who are good at biology, and would love spamable super elites. Its not a sure thing, but when looking at an action chain that long, its something to consider.

2. the warbeasts. we have a pile of useful animals to roll out, and they could likely be further enhanced by studying them. The bolsh spiders and bloom bees would be a significant boom to the rest of the galaxy if we have them export-ready by the time of the conclave. the bloom bees are more food, and the spiders are a cheap garrison super heavy, that is well suited to otherwise hard to defend Agri worlds.

3. we still have not done the cleaners, you know, those things that remove taint. I'd rather not lockdown that slot until we have them done.

4. what little durin has said about the new system implies it will have actions be more transferable between categories, so will lessen the opportunity cost of tying down a category with a long project. So the cost of taking the very long chain will be less.

so, TLDR: we have more urgent things to do right this moment, there is a chance we would be duplicating work and long projects will be less determinantal in a few turns.

Red Bovine · Oct 23, 2019

Azgrin said:
Cawl has a ton of more important things to do once he has access to Avernus that will boost the sane. His backlog flows something like this. Primaris> Primaris Rubicon> Grey Knights and Custodes or going to Quartus to do Primaris Trueborn. Even for the amazing Custodian Genetor that's a lot of time.

Honestly feel like Cawl could be doing a lot more than helping create more Trueborn considering that they are limited to Astartes with access to their Primarchs and the Primarchs already have access to them along with having the best bio scientist for the sane side working on it. Everything else listed would help a lot more people on the sane side by being able to become a lot more widespread.

Dragon_352 · Oct 23, 2019

Azgrin said:
It is true, word of Durin and all.

Remember that the Emperor, much as I like the guy, is not perfect. The TWs were a rush job and prototype for the Astartes project. Said Astartes are capable of being upgraded despite far more care being put in their design thanks to Cawl. The Big E's work is not flawless and can be improved, that's just a fact. It's also better than a chance Alkahestry will work on TWs, since they are purely physical augments which explicitly leaves room for a Warp enhancement to be added on.

Prove the upgrades will be small like you claimed, two of the flaws that may be able to be fixed (lifespan and reaction speed) are huge boost to TW efficiency.

yes the TW's were not perfect, but they were "not perfect" from the perspective of a transcendent level learner....WE DON'T HAVE ONE OF THOSE

if emps was here working on it then yeah, I could see it.....but hes not

as to the "proof" part? I point to the fact that it would be bad game-design to have TW's be good enough for this to pay off enough when all the other variables in the statistical-payoff equation are such that the payoff has to be so absolutely huge that it would be narratively bad to have a not-even-paragon learner find a way to improve a design (even if only a prototype) by a transcendent character by that huge of a degree.

me.me.here · Oct 23, 2019

[x] Plan Nurgle T139

Doomed Wombat · Oct 23, 2019

Dragon_352 said:
yes the TW's were not perfect, but they were "not perfect" from the perspective of a transcendent level learner....WE DON'T HAVE ONE OF THOSE

Actually very probably not a transcendent at that time.

If anything was his transcendent feat in learning then it would be the Primarchs, long after the TW.

Also as has been pointed out he kitbashed them together basically in an afternoon.

He created the Space Marines in less time, and compensated for their defficiencies with primarch/warp BS. Without it they should suffer from degredation as well, and its a problem that Cawl is struggling with.

TinderMote · Oct 23, 2019

[X] Plan Nurgle T139

Doomed Wombat · Oct 23, 2019

[X] Plan Nurgle T139

OH piss it, cries about +30 tech.

Nurgle · Oct 23, 2019

Doomed Wombat said:
[X] Plan Nurgle T139

OH piss it, cries about +30 tech.

Shhhh it ok you live in the UK and are of drinking age just go drink any doubts away buddy.

NPC45 · Oct 23, 2019

[x] Plan Nurgle T139

Honestly, I don't expect much from Fixing the The Flaws of Thunder. But I actually think that it is worth it just to be done with it. These arguments aren't fun for anyone and until we finally do it they will keep on happening every few turns.

Doomed Wombat · Oct 23, 2019

Nurgle said:
Shhhh it ok you live in the UK and are of drinking age just go drink any doubts away buddy.

I'm a teetotler

+ I ain't got time to be drunk I've got readings to do.

Can I please beg to leave Thunder Warriors until after the time skip to let one of the big three have a crack at it and or move to a new system that's more condusive to them.

Enjou · Oct 23, 2019

Doomed Wombat said:
I'm a teetotler

+ I ain't got time to be drunk I've got readings to do.

Can I please beg to leave Thunder Warriors until after the time skip to let one of the big three have a crack at it and or move to a new system that's more condusive to them.

I rather doubt any of the big three will try. We're the ones in the best position to make use of them, and the people they have that might succeed (Corvus and Cawl) have more important projects.

Frankly I would expect the action won't complete before the timeskip, but we might do follow ups during it. That's probably the best time to do them given the length of time they will take. So leave by it in I say!

StormySky · Oct 23, 2019

@Nurgle Your plan doesn't have a Y4 or Y5 DD. I suggest either putting one or both of them on psyker hunting, or shuffling around the diplomacy actions so that you can put it on one of the actions that uses a dice roll (ie asking the AO to help the Krork, Ear to the Ground, Nynye underhive request, etc).

Nurgle · Oct 23, 2019

Doomed Wombat said:
I'm a teetotler

+ I ain't got time to be drunk I've got readings to do.

Can I please beg to leave Thunder Warriors until after the time skip to let one of the big three have a crack at it and or move to a new system that's more condusive to them.

Lies!!!!!

if I don't push for it no one else will. Also I want to get it done since we are starting to use them more often. Please let's just finally get it over with and bite the bullet so it's done.

Azgrin · Oct 23, 2019

StormySky said:
@Nurgle Your plan doesn't have a Y4 or Y5 DD. I suggest either putting one or both of them on psyker hunting, or shuffling around the diplomacy actions so that you can put it on one of the actions that uses a dice roll (ie asking the AO to help the Krork, Ear to the Ground, Nyenye underhive request, etc).

If there's a free DD @Nurgle I strongly suggest putting it on asking the AO to help.

Doomed Wombat · Oct 23, 2019

Enjou said:
I rather doubt any of the big three will try. We're the ones in the best position to make use of them, and the people they have that might succeed (Corvus and Cawl) have more important projects.

Frankly I would expect the action won't complete before the timeskip, but we might do follow ups during it. That's probably the best time to do them given the length of time they will take. So leave by it in I say!

Callamus then, they're practically tailor made for their specilsations and they use bio extensively.

Nurgle said:
Lies!!!!!

if I don't push for it no one else will. Also I want to get it done since we are starting to use them more often. Please let's just finally get it over with and bite the bullet so it's done.

There's plenty who will push for it, but I'm just willing to wait more for it.

Romka · Oct 23, 2019

[X] Plan Nurgle T139

TheGrape · Oct 23, 2019

[X] Plan Nurgle T139

StormySky · Oct 23, 2019

By the way, I asked Durin 20-something hours ago on Discord, and he said that voting closed "tomorrow". It's a bit murky due to everybody's different time zones, but be advised that the vote ends soon.

Adhoc vote count started by StormySky on Oct 23, 2019 at 3:22 PM, finished with 320 posts and 40 votes.

15 people have voted
[X] Plan Shard T139
- Shard
- Romans
- Execute/Dumbo
- NotteBoy97
- agumentic
- Piren'e Colass
- Enerael
- thefoolswriter
- Portec
- huntsman0697
- nat_401
- StormySky
- toxinator196
- random_npc
- Dragon_352
25 people have voted
[x] Plan Nurgle T139
- Nurgle
- Azgrin
- Adventwolf
- Briefvoice
- invictus1829
- TheGleeman
- xXxBlueViperxXx
- SirHades2.0
- Void Stalker
- Enjou
- EyeOfSauron
- Ulrad
- Byzantine
- darknessworld
- adamashield
- cl20
- Brogatar
- Malevolo
- Thule
- me.me.here
- TinderMote
- Doomed Wombat
- NPC45
- Romka
- TheGrape

thefoolswriter · Oct 23, 2019

when will we get the Legio Cybernetica

a simple pilgrim · Oct 23, 2019

Theres a quite a bit I like in Nurgle's plan, but I have to admit theres a few things I prefer in shards plan.

Primarily, I want to get the whole mechanicus situation looked at, as I think they are the biggest hitting holding back the development of the trust. The constant tip-toeing in regards to tech sharing and getting the meant of stone out are serious long term goals, and the sooner we can get the mechanicus up to speed the faster we can start really advancing.

Second, If Durin says that he regrets giving us the TW action, then I'll respect his wishes, and don't want to break a quest this good. Disclaimer though, Even if we shouldn't do it now, I believe that at some point, probably once the Biologis paragons, it will be time to take a look at them.

[X] Shard T139

SirHades2.0 · Oct 23, 2019

[X] Shard T139

Nurgle · Oct 23, 2019

I moved things around so I could double down on asking the ancient one to help the kork.

Azgrin · Oct 23, 2019

a simple pilgrim said:
Theres a quite a bit I like in Nurgle's plan, but I have to admit theres a few things I prefer in shards plan.

Primarily, I want to get the whole mechanicus situation looked at, as I think they are the biggest hitting holding back the development of the trust. The constant tip-toeing in regards to tech sharing and getting the meant of stone out are serious long term goals, and the sooner we can get the mechanicus up to speed the faster we can start really advancing.

Second, If Durin says that he regrets giving us the TW action, then I'll respect his wishes, and don't want to break a quest this good. Disclaimer though, Even if we shouldn't do it now, I believe that at some point, probably once the Biologis paragons, it will be time to take a look at them.

[X] Shard T139

To be fair it's not that Durin has said that he dislikes Thunder Warriors. When asked to elaborate on why he regrets giving them to us he said the reasoning was twofold.

1. They are "too good".
2. Player reaction.

The second one saddens me personally, we shouldn't act in a way that gives Durin anything resembling grief.

The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up

Investigate the Sea?

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